Per Scout.com we had a worse recruiting class than both those teams.
I thought we were getting a ton of talent coming in??? :-\
The fact Jarrod Ulthoff..or whatever his name is..is consider a 4-star by Scout..says it all...basically he and Juan Anderson project to play the 3 possibly 4 in college...if you watch the "highlight" videos of Ulthoff and Anderson...Anderson looks FAR more gifted/talented/athletic..
And Anderson is just considered a 3 star by Scout. I'll definitely take Anderson over Ulthoff. Ulthoff is benefiting largely from the success of a Gordon Hayward..as some see him as a Hayward type...but he's got a lot of athleticsim and coordination to catch up on to be a Gordon Hayward in 2 years..
I think WKY is 'rated' higher than us due to the size of their class - not necessarily the quality that's coming in. Not saying that they're not quality players and that we signed 'chump change'. Just saying that I think size matters in this case.
WI has 4 recruits to our 2. Their top 2 recruits are rated higher than ours according to the site. I don't personally put a lot of weight on ratings - but there you go.
As for talent coming into MU next year, I feel we signed players that perfectly fit the mold of what Marquette Basketball is all about. Of course that is based on the info based on stuff that's been posted on the net, but I'll take that any day, IMHO.
Whatever. I'm sure they're not counting Jamil Wilson in this group even though he will be coming in to play next year. And, like I've been saying, there's still one scholarship left to give--we can't really judge the class until that one is awarded.
Quote from: Ners on November 11, 2010, 10:20:43 AM
The fact Jarrod Ulthoff..or whatever his name is..is consider a 4-star by Scout..says it all...basically he and Juan Anderson project to play the 3 possibly 4 in college...if you watch the "highlight" videos of Ulthoff and Anderson...Anderson looks FAR more gifted/talented/athletic..
Doesn't really matter. Uthoff fits Bo's system perfectly (tall with range a la Leuer), while Anderson is a better fit for Buzz's. I doubt either program would make that trade.
Just a sugestion, but perhaps we should wait until the recruiting class is filled before getting panicky over such things.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 11, 2010, 10:37:38 AM
Just a sugestion, but perhaps we should wait until the recruiting class is filled before getting panicky over such things.
Screw that, I'm ready to fly off the handle ;D
We were supposed to have all this talent coming in, and instead we have two 3 star recruits. 3 star recruits are what Creighton gets. Shoot even Detroit Mercy got a 5 star recruit.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 11, 2010, 10:37:38 AM
Just a sugestion, but perhaps we should wait until the recruiting class is filled before getting panicky over such things.
Not to mention it was a year with only 3 open spots. We can't have 3 top 100 players every year. Well, we could but we really don't need that many. I would rather have a "down year" like this where we put a lot of eggs into recruiting Q. Miller. We have enough quality players. We need to start aiming for great players in our off-years, which we seem to be doing.
Yes, Wisconsin and WK may have out recruited us this year, but our team looks a lot better if you look at more than 1 class.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 11:06:27 AM
We were supposed to have all this talent coming in, and instead we have two 3 star recruits. 3 star recruits are what Creighton gets. Shoot even Detroit Mercy got a 5 star recruit.
It is one year. I don't know who you were talking to, but this was a boom or bust year. We busted but it was half expected. We still have a top 50 player and a top 100 player coming in next year. I made a chart of top 100 players we got over the past decade, and besides the Big 3, we haven't had a class close to this before Buzz.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 11:06:27 AM
We were supposed to have all this talent coming in, and instead we have two 3 star recruits. 3 star recruits are what Creighton gets. Shoot even Detroit Mercy got a 5 star recruit.
Detroit Mercy's 5-star recruit (Ray McCallum) is the son of their head coach.
Show us the chart, Marty.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 11:06:27 AM
We were supposed to have all this talent coming in, and instead we have two 3 star recruits. 3 star recruits are what Creighton gets. Shoot even Detroit Mercy got a 5 star recruit.
F*ck it all. I think you should find the nearest bridge and jump. It's just not worth it anymore. GD 3 star recruits by one service. Let's go NAIA.
Edit: took teal off when I found out this tool was Natedawg. He really should go jump off the nearest bridge.
QuoteTop 100 players:
2011-1 (Anderson) (Wilson is iffy if you count him)
2010-2 (Blue, Jones) (Smith-112)
2009-2 (Maymon, Junior) (Williams-104)
2008-0
2007-0
2006-1 (Lazar)
2005-3 (3 Amigos)
2004-0
2003-1 (Mason)
So out of the 8 previous years, only 3 classes were better. 1 was the historic 2005 class but that was one-time year with no other big time players. 2009 had 2 players, but 1 transferred. 2010 had a great class but we didn't know we were getting blue til very late. And if you are the type of person that clumps Wilson in this class, it is basically comparable to the 2 previous years.
If we get 1-2 Top 75 players every year, we will be just fine. Just can't have years of getting none.
Like I said earlier, we have been spoiled by great classes. We will be fine. We have the best talent in a while and a great coach in Buzz.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on November 11, 2010, 11:14:52 AM
Detroit Mercy's 5-star recruit (Ray McCallum) is the son of their head coach.
I blame Buzz for not producing more college-ready offspring.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 10:08:47 AM
Per Scout.com we had a worse recruiting class than both those teams.
I thought we were getting a ton of talent coming in??? :-\
These are some provocative posts for your first few. No need to wait to try to stir it up.
Shaw and Hood and the rest who did not choose MU all made decisions that made sense for them. But, collectively all of those decisions make it look like a rough class. O well.
Almost every account of Anderson is that he has not had the looks for a fair rating. I like this kid and think he will be a nice player.
No need to add a 35 min/game player with every scholarship. You have to recruit role players too.
We should not be recruiting role players!!. We should be landing 4 star minimum.
Xavier is landing 4-5 star recruits regularly! XAVIER!!!!! Freaking Xavier.....
I like the Jucos way better than some 3 star hack who teams like UNC, Ohio State, Duke wouldnt even sniff at!!
How about a new rule, you're not allowed to cite star ratings or recruiting rankings in argument unless you know what the f**k you're talking about.
Juan Anderson is a consensus Top 100 player in the country. 4-Star #69 according to Rivals, 4-Star #70 according to USA Today, 4-Star #100 according to HoopMasters, 4-Star #80 according to PrepStars. As for Derrick Wilson, he's #63 in the country according to HoopScoop, #99 according to PrepStars and NBE.
When's the last time Creighton pulled in recruits like that out of high school? Oh that's right, f'n never.
3 star only according espn which is the most important because its what the recruit views and fans view. I dont want these Waukesha Mouth Breathers thinking that Marquette has gone soft
Let's see....cites ESPN as the only source that matters....doesn't like Waukesha....hmmm. Welcome back NateDogg.
Quote from: bma725 on November 11, 2010, 11:27:20 AM
How about a new rule, you're not allowed to cite star ratings or recruiting rankings in argument unless you know what the f**k you're talking about.
Juan Anderson is a consensus Top 100 player in the country. 4-Star #69 according to Rivals, 4-Star #70 according to USA Today, 4-Star #100 according to HoopMasters, 4-Star #80 according to PrepStars. As for Derrick Wilson, he's #63 in the country according to HoopScoop, #99 according to PrepStars and NBE.
When's the last time Creighton pulled in recruits like that out of high school? Oh that's right, f'n never.
They did get Benoit Benjamin. Of course the head coach (Willis Reed) had to sleep with his Mom to seal the deal.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 11:30:51 AM
3 star only according espn which is the most important because its what the recruit views and fans view. I dont want these Waukesha Mouth Breathers thinking that Marquette has gone soft
LOL, yeah, cause ESPN is known for having the best recruiting site and that the most important thing in college basketball is that the Waukesha Mouth Breathers think. It's only logical.
KenoshaWarrior....maybe you should use your time to concentrate a little more on the vagrants you teach at the Racine County Detention Center and less worry about MU recruiting.
In other words, hide your email address if you are going to say such ridiculous things.
Thats right im back!!!
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 11:06:27 AM
We were supposed to have all this talent coming in, and instead we have two 3 star recruits. 3 star recruits are what Creighton gets. Shoot even Detroit Mercy got a 5 star recruit.
Be careful what you say about criticizing our recruiting on this board. You really cannot question it without being blasted for not trusting in Buzz. Besides, next year we will have like 7 top 100 recruits on our roster.
Quote from: bma725 on November 11, 2010, 11:32:13 AM
Let's see....cites ESPN as the only source that matters....doesn't like Waukesha....hmmm. Welcome back NateDogg.
HAHAHA. That's epic.
You guessed it in under 6 posts.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 11, 2010, 11:46:22 AM
Be careful what you say about criticizing our recruiting on this board. You really cannot question it without being blasted for not trusting in Buzz. Besides, next year we will have like 7 top 100 recruits on our roster.
There's a difference between criticizing and being Chicken little. You could definitely argue Buzz isn't capable of getting the big fish or that he still has improvements to make coaching. But to say we are in deep trouble cause this class only has 1 Top 100 player. That isn't even worth debating. Be more realistic and not so dramatic about our recruiting and we can debate.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 11:33:29 AM
Thats right im back!!!
go back to the little hobbit world you live in.
Dwayne Wade was a 3 star........
Before we really start getting the attention of high end 4 stars and 5 stars we need to do something significant in the postseason... whether it be big east or ncaa tourny
Quote from: bma725 on November 11, 2010, 11:27:20 AM
When's the last time Creighton pulled in recruits like that out of high school? Oh that's right, f'n never.
Benoit Benjamin. I thought you were some sort of expert?
Quote from: Ners on November 11, 2010, 10:20:43 AM
The fact Jarrod Ulthoff..or whatever his name is..is consider a 4-star by Scout..says it all...basically he and Juan Anderson project to play the 3 possibly 4 in college...if you watch the "highlight" videos of Ulthoff and Anderson...Anderson looks FAR more gifted/talented/athletic..
And Anderson is just considered a 3 star by Scout. I'll definitely take Anderson over Ulthoff. Ulthoff is benefiting largely from the success of a Gordon Hayward..as some see him as a Hayward type...but he's got a lot of athleticsim and coordination to catch up on to be a Gordon Hayward in 2 years..
Do yourself a favor and watch the Ulthoff video back to back with the Juan Anderson video. It is like they are filmed at different speeds. We've got two top 100 kids (according to one recruiting service) with high character and ceilings. We have a ridiculously deep team coming back with very little instant PT to be had. If Buzz lands a project big in the spring, I will be content.
Wow. I can't believe some of these posts. Buzz just landed two VERY talented basketball players. These are EXACTLY the types of guys you need on a team and want to pair with a Vander Blue, DJO, J. Wilson etc.
Quote from: ceh on November 11, 2010, 01:38:33 PM
Wow. I can't believe some of these posts. Buzz just landed two VERY talented basketball players. These are EXACTLY the types of guys you need on a team and want to pair with a Vander Blue, DJO, J. Wilson etc.
I couldn't agree more. Gone are the days of the Manchild Matthews and Christian Carltons.
I was just referring to this class. I am so proud to have Buzz as a coach but I would like to see the neighbors to the west literally be nervous about our recruits and not us being nervous about theirs
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on November 11, 2010, 11:54:24 AM
There's a difference between criticizing and being Chicken little. You could definitely argue Buzz isn't capable of getting the big fish or that he still has improvements to make coaching. But to say we are in deep trouble cause this class only has 1 Top 100 player. That isn't even worth debating. Be more realistic and not so dramatic about our recruiting and we can debate.
Never said we were in deep trouble. Try reading a little. I have repeatedly said that we need at least two to three top 75 people each year, with a some quality bigs to compete for BEast titles and deep runs in the Dance.
At Least we're in a position to land God's Gift. Players names are so much more important that any level of talent they can contribute.
but since we haven't landed 8 5* players this year, clearly buzz needs to be fired and Crean needs to be brought back. Crean can recruit Big men like nobodies business.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 01:45:20 PM
I was just referring to this class. I am so proud to have Buzz as a coach but I would like to see the neighbors to the west literally be nervous about our recruits and not us being nervous about theirs
We're nervous about their recruits?
News to me.
Listen, we are one maybe two players away from something REALLY special. If you just look at this year's team, I am awed by the choices that Buzz will have this year. He can go big, small, quick, slow-down. It's really incredible. Just think about this line-up: RS, DJO, VB, JB & JF. Who knows if we see it, but it sure intrigues me.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 01:45:20 PM
I was just referring to this class. I am so proud to have Buzz as a coach but I would like to see the neighbors to the west literally be nervous about our recruits and not us being nervous about theirs
By what reasonable standard should we be concerned about their recruits?
http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/
Michael Chandler decommits from XU... imagine the possibilities ;D
So he decommits from Louisville...then Xavier...and now Zagsblog is saying potentially UConn.
Well according to Most recruiting websites we should be nervous of Uthoff because he is a consensus top 100. I have seen the videos of Juan Anderson and he looks perfect...But their is not much buzz with a 3 star recruit their just isnt!!!
Vander Blue makes Wisconsin Nervous cause he is 4.5 stars!!
Uthofff should make Marquette fans nervous cause he is a 4 star!!!
If we get that Xavier kid I will be really happy!!! Maybe happy enough to bake some of you Lawyers, Doctors, and CEO's jet setter types like Chili and Ziggy Fry Boys some rolls from my own kitchen!!!!
But than again it will be hard to deliver those roles because they will probably be on a business trip to Dubai and its hard to deliver roles that fresh without a NetJet ::)
Quote from: willie warrior on November 11, 2010, 01:48:00 PM
Never said we were in deep trouble. Try reading a little. I have repeatedly said that we need at least two to three top 75 people each year, with a some quality bigs to compete for BEast titles and deep runs in the Dance.
You might want to look at who has been winning the Big East title in recent years, because you don't need anywhere near that amount of talent to do it. That sort of talent would give you between 8-12 Top 75 kids on a team, a level of talent that is simply unheard of in this conference. Only once in the last 5 years has the conference champ or tournament champ reached even the low end of those numbers.
Conference Champ
2010: Syracuse - 4 Top 75 players
2009: Louisville - 6 Top 75 players
2008: Georgetown - 4 Top 75 Players
2007: Georgetown - 2 Top 75 Players
2006: UConn - 8 Top 75 Players
BET Champ
2010: West Virginia - 2 Top 75 Players
2009: Louisville - 6 Top 75 Players
2008: Pitt - 3 Top 75 Players
2007: Georgetown - 2 Top 75 Players
2006: Syracuse - 6 Top 75 Players
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 02:13:31 PM
Well according to Most recruiting websites we should be nervous of Uthoff because he is a consensus top 100. I have seen the videos of Juan Anderson and he looks perfect...But their is not much buzz with a 3 star recruit their just isnt!!!
Vander Blue makes Wisconsin Nervous cause he is 4.5 stars!!
Uthofff should make Marquette fans nervous cause he is a 4 star!!!
Guys that scare me are guys that produce on the court... Not what their star ranking was out of high school.
For example, Alando Tucker scared me, Brian Butch, not so much.
Now you're just imagining things. Uthoff isn't a consensus Top 100 player, yet you refer to him as one. Anderson is a consensus Top 100 player and you refer to him a 3-Star.
And Nate, ESPN is not the site that most recruits and people who following recruiting pay attention to, Rivals.com is the far and away leader in terms of exposure among fans, recruits and the media. They have Juan Anderson as a 4-star Top 70 player...and Uthoof is a 3-Star that checks in at 150.
He shall henceforth be known as ULTHOOF.
Erik Williams was a blue chip recruit. DJO was not (I realize he was JUCO but even still)
Also, we were the number 16 recruiting class in the entire nation last year. Calm down, damn.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 01:45:20 PM
I was just referring to this class. I am so proud to have Buzz as a coach but I would like to see the neighbors to the west literally be nervous about our recruits and not us being nervous about theirs
Who cares if the neighbors from the west are nervous about our recruits? Really?
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 02:13:31 PM
I have seen the videos of Juan Anderson and he looks perfect...But their is not much buzz with a 3 star recruit their just isnt!!!
Breathe in through the nose.....hold....count to 5........breath out. Listen to BMA about rankings. Finally, watch the Ultoof ( ;D) video right after you watch the Juan Anderson video. He is projected as a wing forward, just like Juan. Compare the speed. Compare the skill sets. If, after watching, you can honestly say you would rather have the Wiscy recruit over the MU recruit......well, you must touch yourself while thinking about the swing offense.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 02:13:31 PM
Vander Blue makes Wisconsin Nervous cause he is 4.5 stars!!
Uthofff should make Marquette fans nervous cause he is a 4 star!!!
If I was Wisconsin I'd be nervous about the NAACP finding a 2010 basketball team picture and slapping them with an affirmative action law suit
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 11, 2010, 11:26:17 AM
Xavier is landing 4-5 star recruits regularly! XAVIER!!!!! Freaking Xavier.....
I'd trade Xavier's recent history for ours in a second.
That said...I love our recruts. I also love our freshman...particularly Reggie Smith, who i don't believe was any higher than a 3 star. How many stars was Butler out of high school? DJO? Buzz knows what he's doing.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 11, 2010, 11:05:55 AM
Screw that, I'm ready to fly off the handle ;D
This needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Quote from: bma725 on November 11, 2010, 02:16:42 PM
You might want to look at who has been winning the Big East title in recent years, because you don't need anywhere near that amount of talent to do it. That sort of talent would give you between 8-12 Top 75 kids on a team, a level of talent that is simply unheard of in this conference. Only once in the last 5 years has the conference champ or tournament champ reached even the low end of those numbers.
Conference Champ
2010: Syracuse - 4 Top 75 players
2009: Louisville - 6 Top 75 players
2008: Georgetown - 4 Top 75 Players
2007: Georgetown - 2 Top 75 Players
2006: UConn - 8 Top 75 Players
BET Champ
2010: West Virginia - 2 Top 75 Players
2009: Louisville - 6 Top 75 Players
2008: Pitt - 3 Top 75 Players
2007: Georgetown - 2 Top 75 Players
2006: Syracuse - 6 Top 75 Players
I think we need to consider attrition in this analysis.
Syracuse may have only had 4
consensus top 75 players still on the roster in 2010, but among the four HS recruiting classes that fed last years team--2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009--they
recruited at least eight such players:
2006: 23 Harris, 44 Mike Jones,
2007: 8 Green, 20 Flynn, 48 Jardine, 56 Jackson
2008: 46 Mookie Jones, 56 Joesph
2009: none
Also consider those players who weren't consensus top 75. DaShonte Riley was top 75 in three different rankings and Rivals had Wesley Johnson ranked 47th out of HS.
That's ten top 75 players recruited over the four years leading up to the 2010 championship season--if one includes those who were top 75 in at least one service.
Obviously some (Harris, Mike Jones, Green and Flynn) were no longer on the team by 2010.
However I think that was the point--you can't count on top 75 players staying for all four seasons. Some will bust. Some will leave early for the NBA. If you sign 2 or 3 a year, you'll have 4 on the team at any one time, which seems to be about the right number for a Big East championship.
Forgive me if this was said, ESPN has Rutgers as the 11 best class.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on November 11, 2010, 03:43:28 PM
I'd trade Xavier's recent history for ours in a second.
That said...I love our recruts. I also love our freshman...particularly Reggie Smith, who i don't believe was any higher than a 3 star. How many stars was Butler out of high school? DJO? Buzz knows what he's doing.
IIRC, Butler was a 1 star and DJO was a 2 star.
Quote from: Marquette84 on November 11, 2010, 04:48:32 PM
I think we need to consider attrition in this analysis.
Syracuse may have only had 4 consensus top 75 players still on the roster in 2010, but among the four HS recruiting classes that fed last years team--2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009--they recruited at least eight such players:
2006: 23 Harris, 44 Mike Jones,
2007: 8 Green, 20 Flynn, 48 Jardine, 56 Jackson
2008: 46 Mookie Jones, 56 Joesph
2009: none
Also consider those players who weren't consensus top 75. DaShonte Riley was top 75 in three different rankings and Rivals had Wesley Johnson ranked 47th out of HS.
That's ten top 75 players recruited over the four years leading up to the 2010 championship season--if one includes those who were top 75 in at least one service.
Obviously some (Harris, Mike Jones, Green and Flynn) were no longer on the team by 2010.
However I think that was the point--you can't count on top 75 players staying for all four seasons. Some will bust. Some will leave early for the NBA. If you sign 2 or 3 a year, you'll have 4 on the team at any one time, which seems to be about the right number for a Big East championship.
thanks for making my point MU84. But never let facts get in the way of a good argument.
Saw both videos of Juan Anderson and Uthoff together...And somehow ESPN got their rankings of those two players completely wrong!!! Anderson is fast quick and played against 10 times better competition than Uthoff got.
I think that Uthoff probably got the "White kid from the country" bump that Brian Butch got.
Quote from: BrewCity on November 11, 2010, 02:27:12 PM
He shall henceforth be known as ULTHOOF.
I don't know, the potential for Hoff jokes is just so tempting.