Not sure if he has any serious interest in us. He also has Wichita State on his list. (??) WVU thinks he is their's.
"Dallas (Lincoln) small forward Keaton Miles will announce his college decision on Wednesday afternoon, ESPN.com's National Recruiting Director Paul Biancardi has confirmed.
The 6-foot-6, 4-star Miles will choose between Penn State, Wichita State, Texas Tech, Houston, West Virginia, Arkansas, SMU and Marquette. He is expected to announce at 4 pm CDT/5 pm EDT."
Don't think we've been involved with him for awhile..
Picked WVU. They have a huge class coming in, 5 fourstars and a real sleeper in relatively unknown center Pat Forsythe. Huggins is really cashing in on their Final 4.
The positive spin on this is in regards to Mike Shaw. Their class is now full with 6 commits. Unless they plan on oversigning, I would say they are likely not in the running for Shaw.
WVU, St. Johns and Louisville are loading it up.
Quote from: nyg on October 20, 2010, 06:27:17 PM
WVU, St. Johns and Louisville are loading it up.
All the more reason we need to be also.
Agreed.
This has got to help us with regards to Shaw...what's Illinois' situation with scholarships and incoming big men?
Quote from: MarkCharles on October 20, 2010, 04:50:22 PM
Picked WVU. They have a huge class coming in, 5 fourstars and a real sleeper in relatively unknown center Pat Forsythe. Huggins is really cashing in on their Final 4.
The positive spin on this is in regards to Mike Shaw. Their class is now full with 6 commits. Unless they plan on oversigning, I would say they are likely not in the running for Shaw.
All good coaches cash in after their Final 4.......ah, then there was Crean.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 20, 2010, 07:21:03 PM
All good coaches cash in after their Final 4.......ah, then there was Crean.
That man was only interested in cashing in for himself.
Quote from: muarmy81 on October 20, 2010, 06:34:50 PM
Agreed.
This has got to help us with regards to Shaw...what's Illinois' situation with scholarships and incoming big men?
Illinois has plenty of room for a couple more commits. One big man signed so far. They will be our toughest competition for Shaw, IMO
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 20, 2010, 07:21:03 PM
All good coaches cash in after their Final 4.......ah, then there was Crean.
I thought the kids Crean recruited after the Final Four made the transition to the Big East relatively smooth for Marquette. Considering the excuses flying around this summer regarding how tough it is to recruit to a school like Marquette, that may be the best "cash-in" we could get.
you must not remember the 2 or 3 classes that followed the Final 4....mid-major at best.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 20, 2010, 08:00:14 PM
you must not remember the 2 or 3 classes that followed the Final 4....mid-major at best.
Moving up I see....not long ago they were dubbed "not DI talent".
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on October 20, 2010, 07:53:50 PM
I thought the kids Crean recruited after the Final Four made the transition to the Big East relatively smooth for Marquette. Considering the excuses flying around this summer regarding how tough it is to recruit to a school like Marquette, that may be the best "cash-in" we could get.
A lot of that is because every expert in the land and every coach recruiting against us thought TC was leaving after the Final Four. That didn't make things any easier.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 20, 2010, 08:37:50 PM
A lot of that is because every expert in the land and every coach recruiting against us thought TC was leaving after the Final Four. That didn't make things any easier.
Hard to beleive knowing how hard TC tied to discourage that speculation ;D
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 20, 2010, 08:37:50 PM
A lot of that is because every expert in the land and every coach recruiting against us thought TC was leaving after the Final Four. That didn't make things any easier.
Gee, I wonder where that rumor came from??
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 20, 2010, 08:00:14 PM
you must not remember the 2 or 3 classes that followed the Final 4....mid-major at best.
The first class that followed the final four (03-04) season typically would not reflect the final four because most of the class was in place already. I'll grant that the next class wasn't very good and didn't seem to capitalize on the final four success. But the next two classes rewrote a lot of Marquette's record books and were very competitive in the Big East. So, which is it? Did Crean's recruiting suck after the final four? Or was he an amazing coach that got a lot out of those "2 or 3" classes that were "mid-major at best?"
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 20, 2010, 08:00:14 PM
you must not remember the 2 or 3 classes that followed the Final 4....mid-major at best.
I don't know if I'd call the three amigos mid-major at best....
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 21, 2010, 08:52:42 AM
I don't know if I'd call the three amigos mid-major at best....
He's being selective and he'll almost certainly say that is 2 or 3 is actually just two. He's counting 03-04 (which you would not necessarily expect to reflect a March run to the final four) and 04-05 which admittedly wasn't very good (Ooze, Amo, Fitz transfer). That third class was a great recruiting class, and Lazar came the next year.
I think it's fair to say Crean screwed the pooch and failed to capitalize on the final four on the 04-05 class which is when you'd expect to see a real benefit (like this year with WVU). But to suggest that the next "2 or 3" classes after the FF were "mid-major" talent is revisionist history.
Quote from: SalsaMan on October 20, 2010, 10:55:09 PM
Gee, I wonder where that rumor came from??
Back at that time of his career, it came from the press and was conventional wisdom. Take little old Marquette to the Final Four...where are you going next?
Go back and read the Tom Izzo comments from 2003 where he says he had personal conversations with TC and he wants to stay at MU because we gave him his first coaching gig. He also comments about some of the other job opportunities that TC was saying no to. Now, was Izzo lying?
FROM ESPN
At Marquette ... Tom Crean was lying low after signing his contract extension, apparently not interested in seeing if Illinois was interested in his services. But a few details are emerging as to why he took the deal. Michigan State coach Tom Izzo said it was hard for Crean to turn down a chance to be secure financially from a school that had taken care of him. The new Al McGuire center, set to open in the fall and the love fest that a Final Four can deliver were too hard to ignore. "The AD and the school had been very fair to him," Izzo said. "All of those were big factors."TC started leveraging the "I might go" game about a year later, but not in 2003.
So there's your answer if you must know.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 21, 2010, 10:04:49 AM
Back at that time of his career, it came from the press and was conventional wisdom. Take little old Marquette to the Final Four...where are you going next?
Go back and read the Tom Izzo comments from 2003 where he says he had personal conversations with TC and he wants to stay at MU because we gave him his first coaching gig. He also comments about some of the other job opportunities that TC was saying no to. Now, was Izzo lying?
FROM ESPN
At Marquette ... Tom Crean was lying low after signing his contract extension, apparently not interested in seeing if Illinois was interested in his services. But a few details are emerging as to why he took the deal. Michigan State coach Tom Izzo said it was hard for Crean to turn down a chance to be secure financially from a school that had taken care of him. The new Al McGuire center, set to open in the fall and the love fest that a Final Four can deliver were too hard to ignore. "The AD and the school had been very fair to him," Izzo said. "All of those were big factors."
TC started leveraging the "I might go" game about a year later, but not in 2003.
So there's your answer if you must know.
I have some land I'd like to sell you. TC definitely was more than interested in the Illinois job and probably would have taken it if the interest was mutual and they would meet what MU was willing to cough up.
my 2 or 3 referred to the fact that Cream was not done recruting after the final 4. His final four momentum allowed him to cash in on Karon bradley after the Final 4. Hit one out of the park on that.
His next two full classes consisted of 7 recruits. That again were mid major at best and yes possibly not even D1 worthy. In fact abyssmal to dredful considering the Al was up and running, the Final 4 etc. Of the 7 recruits Cream signed 1 top 100 player in Dameon MAson. Four of the 7 transfered and of the 3 that did not 2 were Jucos.
Read the boards today...could you possibly imagine the angst if Buzz signed 7 kids in 2 years of which 1 was atop 100 kid!!?? And the classes consisted of guys like Brandon Bell, Mike Kinsella, etc. etc.
Those two classes were freaking terrible. indescribebly terrible. then throw in the fact that we had the Al, DWade, and the Final Four. Only a terrible recruiter could turn in those two stinkers.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 21, 2010, 10:49:00 AM
my 2 or 3 referred to the fact that Cream was not done recruting after the final 4. His final four momentum allowed him to cash in on Karon bradley after the Final 4. Hit one out of the park ont hat.
Wait, didn't Karon Bradley play on the final 4 team?
Quote from: 2002MUalum on October 21, 2010, 10:56:23 AM
Wait, didn't Karon Bradley play on the final 4 team?
Yes.
Facts are overrated in world of MR.HAYWARRRerp...I mean Canadien Dimes.
i may be wrong i thought he signed someone in the spring after the final four. completely regardless tho his next two classes were freaking terrible and led to two completely pathetic years.
Wonder if Buzz does what cream did in years 5 and 6 of his tenure how people would feel. Luckily we wont have to worry about it. Buzz understands great players make coaches great, Others write books about how great of coaches they are...and then go sign classes like his last two at indiana. Or like 7 of his 9 at MU.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 21, 2010, 11:46:09 AM
completely regardless tho his next two classes were freaking terrible and led to two completely pathetic years.
His next
one class was pretty terrible. The class after that had James, McNeal and Matthews. It's a fact.
Quote from: jmayer1 on October 21, 2010, 10:15:10 AM
I have some land I'd like to sell you. TC definitely was more than interested in the Illinois job and probably would have taken it if the interest was mutual and they would meet what MU was willing to cough up.
Of course "interested", anyone in their right mind in any profession is....but you're also missing some of the inside facts that you obviously weren't privy to. Sorry, just the way it is. TC started playing the game a year later and, in fact, regretted for awhile that he stayed at MU because he was having a tough time overcoming the "he won't be at MU" long. Ironic in many ways.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on October 21, 2010, 11:53:05 AM
His next one class was pretty terrible. The class after that had James, McNeal and Matthews. It's a fact.
Yes, that's true Dimes is mixed up.
Crean got 2 guys for the 03-04 class around/after the Final 4 (Carlton Christian and Marcus Jackson). The other 3 recruits from that class (Bell, Mason, and Matthews) were signed prior to the start of the 02-03 season and the Final Four.
TC then had one class where he wasn't able to capitalize on the FF much at all (Barro, Amoroso, and Kinesella) and then landed a really good class the year after (3 amigos..etc).
At most you could say TC didn't capitalize on 1 1/2 class immediately after the FF, but that wouldn't exactly be fair either, considering what is usually left in late spring (immediately around/after the FF run).
After the '05 class though, the '06 and '07 classes weren't particalarly stellar either. Only Lazar was an impact player, with Acker and Cubillan being solid at times, especially in their senior years. Who knows how '08 would have turned out, but I thought Taylor and Williams were a nice start.
Quote from: jmayer1 on October 21, 2010, 12:04:16 PM
Yes, that's true Dimes is mixed up.
Crean got 2 guys for the 03-04 class around/after the Final 4 (Carlton Christian and Marcus Jackson). The other 3 recruits from that class (Bell, Mason, and Matthews) were signed prior to the start of the 02-03 season and the Final Four.
TC then had one class where he wasn't able to capitalize on the FF much at all (Barro, Amoroso, and Kinesella) and then landed a really good class the year after (3 amigos..etc).
At most you could say TC didn't capitalize on 1 1/2 class immediately after the FF, but that wouldn't exactly be fair either, considering what is usually left in late spring (immediately around/after the FF run).
After the '05 class though, the '06 and '07 classes weren't particalarly stellar either. Only Lazar was an impact player, with Acker and Cubillan being solid at times, especially in their senior years. Who knows how '08 would have turned out, but I thought Taylor and Williams were a nice start.
First, I think it's not fair to criticize Crean for not "taking advantage" of the FF in that first class because there really isn't much talent available in April. It's the next year where you should really see the dividends, and, as I've said before, he "screwed the pooch" in that next year. That's
one bad class following the FF, not "2 or 3". After that, though, he had a great class, and then his other classes competed very well in the toughest basketball conference in the country. Mid-major players don't compete well in the Big East. Therefore, I am comfortable saying that Crean's recruiting wasn't nearly as bad as Dimes is claiming. Or, if it was, he and Buzz must be geniuses to have gotten those mid-major kids to compete at a very high level. So, Dimes, which is it? Was Crean a good recruiter? Or did his recruiting suck but he was a great in-game coach?
Off the top of my head, players Buzz has snagged in or about April: Butler, DJO, Crowder
Quote from: Ready2Fly on October 21, 2010, 12:36:36 PM
Off the top of my head, players Buzz has snagged in or about April: Butler, DJO, Crowder
That's a good point. I won't argue that Crean did a good job recruiting JUCO. Clearly that wasn't part of his strategy for the most part. Marcus Jackson was an attempt at that (if I remember correctly), but Crean obviously overlooked that source of recruits. I think it is fair to fault him for that.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on October 21, 2010, 12:22:40 PM
Was Crean a good recruiter? Or did his recruiting suck but he was a great in-game coach?
I'd say Crean was an above average recruiter, and an average game coach. He was pretty much good for 1 really good recruiting class every 3 years. The Big 3 were legit, and were good enough to be competitive as freshman in the Big East, mixed in with Novak and Ooze. I'd call Crean a very good or great recruiter, if he were able to attract some high major talent (Top 100) in subsequent recruiting classes after his really good year. The problem was there was such fall off on the roster from spots 1-5 to 6-10..the 6-10 players were, at best mid-major quality players...which translated into the results we got...NCAA appearance, 5th place finish in Big East, but bounced in the first round of the NCAA.
Quote from: Ners on October 21, 2010, 12:59:49 PM
I'd say Crean was an above average recruiter, and an average game coach. He was pretty much good for 1 really good recruiting class every 3 years. The Big 3 were legit, and were good enough to be competitive as freshman in the Big East, mixed in with Novak and Ooze. I'd call Crean a very good or great recruiter, if he were able to attract some high major talent (Top 100) in subsequent recruiting classes after his really good year. The problem was there was such fall off on the roster from spots 1-5 to 6-10..the 6-10 players were, at best mid-major quality players...which translated into the results we got...NCAA appearance, 5th place finish in Big East, but bounced in the first round of the NCAA.
I generally agree. My comment was to those who want to argue that he sucked at recruiting and he sucked as an in-game coach. It's not true, and the results show that. I think your assessment -- "above average recruiter and average game coach" -- is fair.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 21, 2010, 11:46:09 AM
i may be wrong i thought he signed someone in the spring after the final four. completely regardless tho his next two classes were freaking terrible and led to two completely pathetic years.
Wonder if Buzz does what cream did in years 5 and 6 of his tenure how people would feel. Luckily we wont have to worry about it. Buzz understands great players make coaches great, Others write books about how great of coaches they are...and then go sign classes like his last two at indiana. Or like 7 of his 9 at MU.
Canadian Dimes Translator 2000:
Guys, please don't confuse me with the facts. I don't care for Tom Crean, and I will find (or in this case make up) examples and show everybody how bad he really was.
McNeal, James, and Matthews started as freshmen by default. Why was that? 'Cuz the talent sucked when they came in. Who, of those 3, would start on this year's MU team if they were entering freshmen now?
BTW, Creans sucks sewer water.
James
I'm figuring Cadougan's a better point guard overall.
Just because he played under someone many of us now hate, don't diminish James as a player and a person in this program. He became a fantastic defender and was an excellent distributor of the ball, especially his senior year. Junior could become better but all we have now is an incomplete sample from last year where he was far from fantastic and high expectations going forward. Give DJ some respect and let Junior come into his own, yeesh.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 21, 2010, 03:03:03 PM
I'm figuring Cadougan's a better point guard overall.
I think we're still a long way from being able to make that conclusion. D James was a heck of player, especially his freshman year; which overall statistically was his strongest season.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 21, 2010, 03:03:03 PM
I'm figuring Cadougan's a better point guard overall.
-1
As others have stated, Junior's a big unknown. Dom was one of the Top 7 or 8 MU point guards in my opinion. If Junior reaches that level, I will be extremely happy.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 21, 2010, 02:47:09 PM
McNeal, James, and Matthews started as freshmen by default. Why was that? 'Cuz the talent sucked when they came in. Who, of those 3, would start on this year's MU team if they were entering freshmen now?
Same old broken record. The team sucked so bad that it started three freshmen who couldn't even sniff a starting spot on this year's team (according to you), yet somehow managed to finish fourth in the Big East and nab a seven seed in the NCAA tourney. Man, Crean must have been a hell of a coach.
I'll stick with Ners.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 21, 2010, 11:59:37 AM
Of course "interested", anyone in their right mind in any profession is....but you're also missing some of the inside facts that you obviously weren't privy to. Sorry, just the way it is. TC started playing the game a year later and, in fact, regretted for awhile that he stayed at MU because he was having a tough time overcoming the "he won't be at MU" long. Ironic in many ways.
Sorry I'm not the "insider" you claim to be. The simple fact is that Crean would have taken the UI job if they would have offered at his asking salary, of cousre there is some conjecture around as to why they didn't offer the job: salary demands or otherwise but TC had more than a passing interest.