http://www.journalstandard.com/sports/x1305347345/Illini-recruit-Mike-Shaw-expected-to-visit-this-weekend
It looks like Shaw took an unofficial to Illinois last weekend, and he is going to what sounds like their version of Madness at the end of the month.
Hopefully Shaw will learn all he needs to know about Illinois on the unofficial and can come to MU for Madness with enough information to commit. It's tough to know when you have enough info to make a decision, but hopefully he can see the type of talent he would play with at MU and see the PT available at PF and come on board.
The prior posts on Shaw indicate he " may" have some academic concerns. If that is the case, Illinois will be a serious player for Shaw. Always easier to get into your in-state school than a private school w/ higher academic requirements.
Quote from: Marquette65 on October 07, 2010, 11:06:03 AM
The prior posts on Shaw indicate he " may" have some academic concerns. If that is the case, Illinois will be a serious player for Shaw. Always easier to get into your in-state school than a private school w/ higher academic requirements.
Name one recruit - anyone, anywhere - that doesn't have any academic concerns. The fact is that they all "may" have concerns. Even a 4.0 student can lose academic eligibility simply by failing one key class in the 4th quarter of his senior year.
However, I think the point of your post was not to call attention to Shaw's academic progress but rather to disparage Illinois' perceived lack of (or lesser) academic requirements. It would be important to note that even UCLA, Cal, UW, Minnesota, Michigan, etc. all bend their usual academic requirements for athletic recruits. MU and Illinois are no different in that regard.
That being said, +1. Illinois sucks.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on October 07, 2010, 10:32:56 AM
http://www.journalstandard.com/sports/x1305347345/Illini-recruit-Mike-Shaw-expected-to-visit-this-weekend
It looks like Shaw took an unofficial to Illinois last weekend, and he is going to what sounds like their version of Madness at the end of the month.
Hopefully Shaw will learn all he needs to know about Illinois on the unofficial and can come to MU for Madness with enough information to commit. It's tough to know when you have enough info to make a decision, but hopefully he can see the type of talent he would play with at MU and see the PT available at PF and come on board.
MU's talent is definitely getting richer but so is IL. They have recruited very well the last few years.
Benny B, you are correct. My post was not intended as any comment on Shaw's academics but to point out Illinois's lesser academic requirements, as opposed to a private school, and how that may play on any recruits decision.
Quote from: Marquette65 on October 07, 2010, 11:29:17 AM
Benny B, you are correct. My post was not intended as any comment on Shaw's academics but to point out Illinois's lesser academic requirements, as opposed to a private school, and how that may play on any recruits decision.
You can't be dense enough to think that MU doesn't admit basketball players with questionable academics. Gates, Wade, etc. etc. etc.....
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 07, 2010, 11:32:30 AM
You can't be dense enough to think that MU doesn't admit basketball players with questionable academics. Gates, Wade, etc. etc. etc.....
Prior to joining the BEast absolutely true since we could take partial qualifiers, not so much now.....sure recruited athletes aren't held to the same academic standards as a regular admit but that's the case everywhere-even the Ivy League.
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on October 07, 2010, 11:35:59 AM
Prior to joining the BEast absolutely true since we could take partial qualifiers, not so much now.....sure recruited athletes aren't held to the same academic standards as a regular admit but that's the case everywhere-even the Ivy League.
Agreed. My point is that Shaw is going to be admitted to whichever school he chooses. The question is whether or not he will qualify per NCAA standards.
And the issue with him is that he hasn't taken the SAT...not that he hasn't had a qualifying score. So honestly it is a bit of an unknown more than anything.
Illinois is harder to get into than Marquette... and I HATE Illinois.
Quote from: jeffreyweee on October 07, 2010, 11:57:57 AM
Illinois is harder to get into than Marquette... and I HATE Illinois.
People say the same thing about UW-Madison (that it's harder to get into than MU). However, I personally know people that have gotten into UW-madison, but denied by MU. It's foolish for people to use blanket statements like that IMHO and most times its purely a case by case basis rather than a cut and dry GPA/ACT cutoff. None of the 3 are cake walks to get into.
Shaw does not have academic issues. It is a HUGE reach by that one blogger from a while ago. It is not fair to him to even have that associated with him and I don't think we should be even mentioning it in the same breath with Shaw.
Shaw and MU are a perfect fit and I hope Buzz can get him.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on October 07, 2010, 12:21:26 PM
Shaw does not have academic issues. It is a HUGE reach by that one blogger from a while ago. It is not fair to him to even have that associated with him and I don't think we should be even mentioning it in the same breath with Shaw.
Yes...completely agreed. As I mentioned, the blogger assumed issues because he hadn't taken the SAT. It was a dumb leap to conclusions.
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on October 07, 2010, 12:16:41 PM
People say the same thing about UW-Madison (that it's harder to get into than MU). However, I personally know people that have gotten into UW-madison, but denied by MU. It's foolish for people to use blanket statements like that IMHO and most times its purely a case by case basis rather than a cut and dry GPA/ACT cutoff. None of the 3 are cake walks to get into.
Look at Marquette's engineering program then look at U of I's.
Look at Marquette's business program then look at U of I's.
etc...
They are a better institution. It's not really even a question. Of course there are gonna be outliers as with any university, however.
Quote from: jeffreyweee on October 07, 2010, 12:36:45 PM
Look at Marquette's engineering program then look at U of I's.
Look at Marquette's business program then look at U of I's.
How are you supposed to judge this?
By rankings by US News, U of I Engineering is top 10 in the country.
Quote from: jeffreyweee on October 07, 2010, 11:57:57 AM
Illinois is harder to get into than Marquette... and I HATE Illinois.
Not for basketball players. If a guy is good enough almost every Big Six Conference school has the same requirements - eligibility clearance by the NCAA. Stanford may be an exception as may be ND.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 07, 2010, 12:41:50 PM
Not for basketball players. If a guy is good enough almost every Big Six Conference school has the same requirements - eligibility clearance by the NCAA. Stanford may be an exception as may be ND.
Maybe. Although, Sideshow Bob and his brother Cecil are actually quite intelligent characters on the Simpsons despite their buffoonery, so if that holds true in real life, then perhaps you're right about Stanford... after all, it is the UW of the West.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 07, 2010, 12:41:50 PM
Not for basketball players. If a guy is good enough almost every Big Six Conference school has the same requirements - eligibility clearance by the NCAA. Stanford may be an exception as may be ND.
Right, I'm with you there. Pretty much the same everywhere as far as BCS.
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on October 07, 2010, 12:16:41 PM
People say the same thing about UW-Madison (that it's harder to get into than MU). However, I personally know people that have gotten into UW-madison, but denied by MU. It's foolish for people to use blanket statements like that IMHO and most times its purely a case by case basis rather than a cut and dry GPA/ACT cutoff. None of the 3 are cake walks to get into.
It is hard to get into Madison if you are a white kid from SE Wisconsin. UW rations admits to even out WI geographically and racially. It is easier if you are from outstate WI and even easier if you are from out of state (paying full tuition). This is mostly due to level of state subsidy. UW needs full tuition paying Pennyheads to balance the budget.
jwee is correct on UI vs. MU. To argue otherwise is completely silly. Marquette is middle of the road.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2010, 01:00:11 PM
jwee is correct on UI vs. MU. To argue otherwise is completely silly. Marquette is middle of the road.
The question then, is why do you teach at a middle of the road institution as opposed to a beacon of higher learning? :)
Doesn't really have anything to do with how hard each school is to get into. Both will find a place for Shaw, let's get real
Thats IF he passes the ACT with the minimum score for NCAA qualifications. I'm pretty sure that's a 17 or 18. Last I heard he was taking it soon.
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on October 07, 2010, 12:16:41 PM
People say the same thing about UW-Madison (that it's harder to get into than MU). However, I personally know people that have gotten into UW-madison, but denied by MU. It's foolish for people to use blanket statements like that IMHO and most times its purely a case by case basis rather than a cut and dry GPA/ACT cutoff. None of the 3 are cake walks to get into.
There's not even a question of where it's harder to get in... Wisconsin and Illinois have higher standards based on testing scores (ACT). I wouldn't have had a chance at either, but I think admissions at MU look at some other things like, community service, GPA, athletic participation, etc. Oh.. and ability to pay tuition. Marquette's standards have become more stringent as our applications have increased over the last 15 years or so.
But back to the subject, hopefully we can land a Chicago Catholic League guy in Shaw.... he'll play tough and is used to some of the higher standards that a private school will hold him to. Good recruits will want to be held to that higher standard. I think Bruce Weber is a great guy and a good coach.... but Buzz is a better guy and will get the most out of his guys... more so than Weber.
Quote from: jeffreyweee on October 07, 2010, 11:57:57 AM
Illinois is harder to get into than Marquette... and I HATE Illinois.
In no small measure because as the flagship university of the fifth most populous state in the nation, the U of I receives a massive number of applications, many from state residents with no real chance of getting in. Illinois also has no resident quota, making it more difficult to gain admission. and with so many applicants, they can afford to be more selective and still meet their desired class sizes.
Not to say Illinois isn't an excellent school, but the challenge of getting in is a result of more than just academics.
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on October 07, 2010, 12:16:41 PM
People say the same thing about UW-Madison (that it's harder to get into than MU). However, I personally know people that have gotten into UW-madison, but denied by MU. It's foolish for people to use blanket statements like that IMHO and most times its purely a case by case basis rather than a cut and dry GPA/ACT cutoff. None of the 3 are cake walks to get into.
Same here. I also know people who got into MU but were rejected by Wisco. None of those people were star athletes, however, and being an athlete changes everything. I had a friend who ran track at MU and a another who wrestled, both of them said point-blank that they never would have gotten into MU if not for their athletic abilities. Bottom line, if an athlete is on Shaw's level, regardless of the sport, a vast majority of D1 schools are going to admit him. (Note: I'm not implying that Shaw has academic issues)
One thing that I haven't seen anyone metion is that giant state school also have an advantage in that it's much easier for them to "hide" the athletes who have academic issues in blow-off classes to meet the requirements of their General Studies major.
Quote from: mu-rara on October 07, 2010, 12:52:09 PM
It is hard to get into Madison if you are a white kid from SE Wisconsin. UW rations admits to even out WI geographically and racially. It is easier if you are from outstate WI and even easier if you are from out of state (paying full tuition). This is mostly due to level of state subsidy. UW needs full tuition paying Pennyheads to balance the budget.
+1. I haven't checked lately, but they're most likely still holding the title for the lowest percentage of in-state students of any public school in the country.
And on the line of rationing out spots, there's always the transfer option. I've known people who have gotten denied by UW and went to MU for a semester and for a year and gotten accepted as transfers, and another that did the same after starting at UWM.
Quote from: chapman on October 07, 2010, 06:09:28 PM
+1. I haven't checked lately, but they're most likely still holding the title for the lowest percentage of in-state students of any public school in the country.
And on the line of rationing out spots, there's always the transfer option. I've known people who have gotten denied by UW and went to MU for a semester and for a year and gotten accepted as transfers, and another that did the same after starting at UWM.
The transfer thing is also getting a lot tougher to do.
I transferred pretty easily to Marquette from UW-Waukesha. Proving you can stick out a couple years with a good GPA goes a long way.
Back on topic, I thought Shaw had already confirmed he was coming to Marquette Madness. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, but I thought he was one of two that we knew would be here.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 07, 2010, 06:54:26 PM
I transferred pretty easily to Marquette from UW-Waukesha. Proving you can stick out a couple years with a good GPA goes a long way.
Back on topic, I thought Shaw had already confirmed he was coming to Marquette Madness. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, but I thought he was one of two that we knew would be here.
He is coming, but is scheduled to go to Illinois a week or two later.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2010, 01:00:11 PM
jwee is correct on UI vs. MU. To argue otherwise is completely silly. Marquette is middle of the road.
Top 100 school in America out of over 1000's of schools and we're middle of the road? I'm telling you 4ever, you really need to get out on the circuit my friend. Your kids are applying to very good schools so you're pool of comparison is flawed. If there are 4,058 4 year accredited universities and colleges in the country (per the US Gov't...who, I admit, couldn't count their ass if their life depended on it http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101007/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_stimulus_checks_dead_people ), wouldn't Middle of the Road be around ...oh...2000 or so? Not a top 100 school?
MU would be the number 1 school in about 20 states in this country. In another 15 it would be a top 5 school. In the remaining 15 states, top 10 in the state. There are so many "middle of the road" universities or damn crappy ones...I mean TRULY middle of the road, you just aren't out there seeing them daily. Unfortunately I'm surrounded by them with the Cal State system. 19 alone in this state that don't hold a candle to MU in any academic survey (Cal Poly the only exception).
Hit the road my friend, take in the mediocrity and true middle of the road chronicles of education that litter this country. ;D
Quote from: Pakuni on October 07, 2010, 03:04:38 PM
In no small measure because as the flagship university of the fifth most populous state in the nation, the U of I receives a massive number of applications, many from state residents with no real chance of getting in. Illinois also has no resident quota, making it more difficult to gain admission. and with so many applicants, they can afford to be more selective and still meet their desired class sizes.
Not to say Illinois isn't an excellent school, but the challenge of getting in is a result of more than just academics.
Ding ding ding. Pakuni wins a prize. Wisconsin is no different. Every Tom, Dlck and Harry apply to the big state school in places like Wisconsin, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota. Doesn't cost much to apply and the instate tuition is low, so why not give it a whirl. Private schools receive fewer applications and far fewer of the "let's take a whirl" and apply idiots because the cost to apply is higher and the cost to attend MUCH higher (so Mr and Mrs Idiot typically say DON'T BOTHER applying because we' aren't paying for you to go there). It skews the admittance rates.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 07, 2010, 07:34:05 PM
Ding ding ding. Pakuni wins a prize. Wisconsin is no different. Every Tom, Dlck and Harry apply to the big state school in places like Wisconsin, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota. Doesn't cost much to apply and the instate tuition is low, so why not give it a whirl. Private schools receive fewer applications and far fewer of the "let's take a whirl" and apply idiots because the cost to apply is higher and the cost to attend MUCH higher (so Mr and Mrs Idiot typically say DON'T BOTHER applying because we' aren't paying for you to go there). It skews the admittance rates.
One area where you are absolutely false is application fees. Most privates have no application fees whatsoever any longer...I know MU doesn't. Public universities tend to still charge a nominal fee... UW is $25 I believe.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 07, 2010, 07:52:21 PM
One area where you are absolutely false is application fees. Most privates have no application fees whatsoever any longer...I know MU doesn't. Public universities tend to still charge a nominal fee... UW is $25 I believe.
Huh? You're kidding, right? "Most privates have no application fees"? Check again, please. It's big business. Select privates get about 25,000 apps/year at $75 ea. Enough bread to easily fund the whole admission dept. As for MU, each year I sign several "fee waiver cards" and hand them to high school seniors interested in applying. BTW, as of 2008, UW charged $35 sheckles/app.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 07, 2010, 07:52:21 PM
One area where you are absolutely false is application fees. Most privates have no application fees whatsoever any longer...I know MU doesn't. Public universities tend to still charge a nominal fee... UW is $25 I believe.
Absolutely False? Here are my examples only because my nephew just went through it. I guess it depends on what schools you are applying to
Application feesWake Forest $50 - Private
USC $50 - Private
Santa Clara $75 - Private
Pepperdine $65 - Private
Boston College $70 - Private
Georgetown University $65 - Private
Butler $0 - Private
Some Public Examples
UW-Madison $44 - Public
Illinois State Universities $40 - Public
Ohio State $40 - Public
University of Oregon $50 - Public
Arizona $50 - Public
Etc. I'm only going off personal experience, you may be totally right (I suspect you are) that a number of schools are waiving the fees to get applicants.
I said "most." And I stand by that. If you use the common application, *most* private schools will not charge an application fee. And I am not simply going by personal experience.
Here's a list....not a comprehensive one by any means.
http://www.porcelina.net/freeapps/general.html
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 07, 2010, 08:20:14 PM
I said "most." And I stand by that. If you use the common application, *most* private schools will not charge an application fee. And I am not simply going by personal experience.
Here's a list....not a comprehensive one by any means.
http://www.porcelina.net/freeapps/general.html
Technically, you are right in that most private colleges don't. But in the context of this argument, we are talking about bigger Catholic schools and ones that compete with the state schools. The Carroll Universities of the world need to be free cause few people comparatively know anything about them. Not many people will compare smaller colleges like that to big state schools.
That's not the context of the argument at all. Pakuni said that Illinois acceptance rate is lower than Illinois'. Chicos said:
"Private schools receive fewer applications and far fewer of the "let's take a whirl" and apply idiots because the cost to apply is higher and the cost to attend MUCH higher (so Mr and Mrs Idiot typically say DON'T BOTHER applying because we' aren't paying for you to go there). It skews the admittance rates."
The phrase "bigger Catholic schools" was never stated nor was it implied. (And BTW, MU doesn't charge an application fee either.)
If MU doesn't charge an app fee, how come I get alumni recommendation fee waiver cards?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 07, 2010, 08:53:52 PM
That's not the context of the argument at all. Pakuni said that Illinois acceptance rate is lower than Illinois'. Chicos said:
"Private schools receive fewer applications and far fewer of the "let's take a whirl" and apply idiots because the cost to apply is higher and the cost to attend MUCH higher (so Mr and Mrs Idiot typically say DON'T BOTHER applying because we' aren't paying for you to go there). It skews the admittance rates."
The phrase "bigger Catholic schools" was never stated nor was it implied. (And BTW, MU doesn't charge an application fee either.)
First, I kinda doubt I said "Illinois acceptance rate is lower than Illinois'."
That said, who cares about application fees either way? When you're talking about spending six figures or more on your kid's education, a $50 application isn't going to be much of a disincentive. Likewise, a kid isn't more likely to apply to a private school because it'll save him $50.
None of it changes the argument that large, public institutions get significantly more applications that your typical private school, allowing them not only to be far more selective when filling out their classes, but also to reject more students, thus lowering their acceptance rate (and raising their US News rankings).
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 07, 2010, 08:53:52 PM
That's not the context of the argument at all. Pakuni said that Illinois acceptance rate is lower than Illinois'. Chicos said:
"Private schools receive fewer applications and far fewer of the "let's take a whirl" and apply idiots because the cost to apply is higher and the cost to attend MUCH higher (so Mr and Mrs Idiot typically say DON'T BOTHER applying because we' aren't paying for you to go there). It skews the admittance rates."
The phrase "bigger Catholic schools" was never stated nor was it implied. (And BTW, MU doesn't charge an application fee either.)
Fair enough...I'll stand by the Private schools get fewer applications. You've made a fair point on some of the private schools allowing for free applications, many on that list were private, though the list was far from the 4,000+ colleges and universities in the USA. But I'll concede.
MU should be charging something, IMO. Most of the schools on that free list are "middle of the road". ;)
PS I assume you are MU Viking just with a different name over here...you definitely know your academic admissions stuff if it is you.
Quote from: jmayer1 on October 07, 2010, 01:03:57 PM
The question then, is why do you teach at a middle of the road institution as opposed to a beacon of higher learning? :)
Our dentist friend has only one option in the state....it's the Harvard of Dental Schools in Wisconsin. ;)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 07, 2010, 11:08:00 PM
Our dentist friend has only one option in the state....it's the Harvard of Dental Schools in Wisconsin. ;)
How about UVic (Home of the Vikes) or Simon Fraser U? These are fine schools and they will waive the fee if you are First Nations.
Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on October 07, 2010, 11:38:47 PM
How about UVic (Home of the Vikes) or Simon Fraser U? These are fine schools and they will waive the fee if you are First Nations.
My assumption is 4ever would like to stay in SE Wisconsin. There is only one Dental school in Wisconsin that I'm aware of....Marquette University.
I just want to say I paid $0 to apply to MU and got a scholarship because of it.
Of course, I've given a bit back since I graduated, so let's just say it evened out (or MU owes me)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 07, 2010, 11:08:00 PM
Our dentist friend has only one option in the state....it's the Harvard of Dental Schools in Wisconsin. ;)
Hey, I give my blood, sweat, and tears each day I'm there to help make it better. The dental school, btw, is far above middle of the road.
I don't get it; do people really think that there is no app fee at MU? There was 6 years ago. I waived it through alumni recommendation. MU sent me alumni recommendation cards this year to give out (presumably to waive the fee).
Also, this is a comical argument for a bball board. Madness can't get here soon enough.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 08, 2010, 06:43:38 AM
Hey, I give my blood, sweat, and tears each day I'm there to help make it better. The dental school, btw, is far above middle of the road.
Marquette is ranked 75th in US News and World Report (for what it's worth) out of an estimated 4,000 accredited 4-year schools (per Chicos). This puts MU in the top 1.875% of all schools in the US.
Comparatively, there are approximately 60 dental schools in the US. So, unless MU is the best dental school in the US, it is, in fact, middle of the road by your standards! ;)
Quote from: lawwarrior12 on October 08, 2010, 07:25:36 AM
I don't get it; do people really think that there is no app fee at MU? There was 6 years ago.
If you apply online there is no application fee. Here is the web-site:
https://www.marquetteinfo.org/freshman/
Note were it states "No Application Fee"
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 07, 2010, 11:07:13 PM
Fair enough...I'll stand by the Private schools get fewer applications. You've made a fair point on some of the private schools allowing for free applications, many on that list were private, though the list was far from the 4,000+ colleges and universities in the USA. But I'll concede.
MU should be charging something, IMO. Most of the schools on that free list are "middle of the road". ;)
PS I assume you are MU Viking just with a different name over here...you definitely know your academic admissions stuff if it is you.
No I am not MU Viking. I work in higher ed administration at a public university in Indiana. I have to know *something* right? ;)
The reason schools like MU don't charge app fees is because they are playing the USN&WR ratings game. I have mentioned this earlier, but this is how schools play with the metrics so they look more exclusive. They do everything they can to increase applications so they can turn around and reject a higher %-age of students.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 08, 2010, 06:43:38 AM
Hey, I give my blood, sweat, and tears each day I'm there to help make it better. The dental school, btw, is far above middle of the road.
Well that's good to hear. ;)
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 08, 2010, 07:53:32 AM
No I am not MU Viking. I work in higher ed administration at a public university in Indiana. I have to know *something* right? ;)
The reason schools like MU don't charge app fees is because they are playing the USN&WR ratings game. I have mentioned this earlier, but this is how schools play with the metrics so they look more exclusive. They do everything they can to increase applications so they can turn around and reject a higher %-age of students.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 07, 2010, 06:11:19 PM
4ever;
Please take your alzheimer's medication and get back to us about why you quoted Chapman and then didn't say anything.
I forgot why.