MUScoop

Not really a big loss for MU as any serious interest seemed to have wained a long time ago. Just though I'd pass it along. Arkansas has an incredible class coming in.

that is two that Ark. pulled from us---BJ Young also.

Quote from: willie warrior on September 29, 2010, 12:30:11 PM
that is two that Ark. pulled from us---BJ Young also.

I'm not sure a kid from Arkansas choosing his home state school over one 600 miles away qualifies as being "pulled from us."

I've said it before...but I'm not sure what kids are seeing in John Pelphrey as a Head Coach.  He's been on the job 3+ years and the teams record has gotten worse each year.  But, somehow he's landed a GREAT class this year.

Quote from: Ners on September 29, 2010, 01:11:05 PM
I've said it before...but I'm not sure what kids are seeing in John Pelphrey as a Head Coach.  He's been on the job 3+ years and the teams record has gotten worse each year.  But, somehow he's landed a GREAT class this year.

That's why you don't completely judge coaches on just the first few years of work.  Sometimes it takes awhile.  Doesn't mean he will succeed, but plenty of examples out there of guys struggling out of the gates only to hit on all cylinders a few years down the road.

Quote from: Ners on September 29, 2010, 01:11:05 PM
I've said it before...but I'm not sure what kids are seeing in John Pelphrey as a Head Coach.  He's been on the job 3+ years and the teams record has gotten worse each year.  But, somehow he's landed a GREAT class this year.

With all those bad players on the roster, there must be plenty of PT available for the new guys.

(Is there a color I can use to represent "only kind of sarcastic"?)

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 29, 2010, 01:17:45 PM
That's why you don't completely judge coaches on just the first few years of work.  Sometimes it takes awhile.  Doesn't mean he will succeed, but plenty of examples out there of guys struggling out of the gates only to hit on all cylinders a few years down the road.

Oh boy! I hope this leads to a Crean vs. Buzz debate!

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on September 29, 2010, 01:20:07 PM
Oh boy! I hope this leads to a Crean vs. Buzz debate!

Rest assured.  They all do.

Quote from: Pakuni on September 29, 2010, 12:43:03 PM
I'm not sure a kid from Arkansas choosing his home state school over one 600 miles away qualifies as being "pulled from us."

Sorry--let me rephrase it: There were about 10 top 100 recruits that we were earlier reported to be after. Madden from Ark. and Young from Ark/Mo. that have committed to Ark. So we lost out to Ark. for those two.
There are still a few from that earlier list that have not committed:
Faust from Baltimore
Harrison from Tx.
Shaw from Chicago
Space from Tx.
Tharpe from NH/Mass.
Miller from Chicago
And we lost out MSU on Dawson
Still hoping we can land at least two from the remaining list.

Interesting comments. Both Ark and Miss recruit him for months if not years. The kid is ready to choose Ole Miss. Ark finds out and has a last minute meeting with KM.

He changes his mind and calls it a "business decision".

What could they possibly have said to him in the last meeting that he didn't know before?

"It was a business decision." Madden told RebelGrove.com's Chase Parham. "I changed my mind at the table."


UPDATE: 12:10 PM Sources close to Madden have indicated that Arkansas coaches caught wind that Madden was going to chose Ole Miss. They decided to make a very late push to try to get him to change his mind, and the push obviously paid off.

Quote from: MuMark on September 29, 2010, 02:16:43 PM
Interesting comments. Both Ark and Miss recruit him for months if not years. The kid is ready to choose Ole Miss. Ark finds out and has a last minute meeting with KM.

He changes his mind and calls it a "business decision".

What could they possibly have said to him in the last meeting that he didn't know before?

"It was a business decision." Madden told RebelGrove.com's Chase Parham. "I changed my mind at the table."


UPDATE: 12:10 PM Sources close to Madden have indicated that Arkansas coaches caught wind that Madden was going to chose Ole Miss. They decided to make a very late push to try to get him to change his mind, and the push obviously paid off.

Hope that was just a poor choice of words on their part

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 29, 2010, 01:17:45 PM
That's why you don't completely judge coaches on just the first few years of work.  Sometimes it takes awhile.  Doesn't mean he will succeed, but plenty of examples out there of guys struggling out of the gates only to hit on all cylinders a few years down the road.

So we should expect Magic to happen down in Bloomington? Thank God. I was beginning to think Tom Crean had lost his touch. After all, recruiting to IIII is, how you say, simple as pie, no?

I think there is a more interesting hypothetical at play here than the tired Tom Crean debate.

It seems here is an example of a coach who can undoubtedly recruit top talent, but is questionable at turning that into W's. Given the focus of coaching searches on recruiting, and the way that coaching/recruiting seems to be more disconnected than ever in how coaches are judged, what would a fan base response to this type of program development be?  I've got to think that these classes serve to get the fan base excited every year, but what about the ensuing disappointment?  Plus, you can't have rumblings to get rid of a guy that brings in this type of talent, can you?  Would those rumblings undercut his main strength, project program uncertainty and then prohibit him from future classes? 

Just seems like an interesting case study.

Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on September 29, 2010, 02:42:33 PM
So we should expect Magic to happen down in Bloomington? Thank God. I was beginning to think Tom Crean had lost his touch. After all, recruiting to IIII is, how you say, simple as pie, no?

Simple as pie?  No, but I would think if he can recruit to a losing team (14-15), no facilities, Conference USA, non-NIT program that had one Sweet 16 team in 20 years and more years of non-NCAA appearances than NCAA appearances in that same period and turn them into a Final Four program.....I'd think he can probably have an easier time in the LONG RUN at IU than MU.  Easy as pie?  No.  Easier in the long run?  Yes.  Stable conference, state that produces better basketball talent, long long history of winning, etc, etc.  Just my hunch, we'll see over the long run how it turns out.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on September 29, 2010, 01:20:07 PM
Oh boy! I hope this leads to a Crean vs. Buzz debate!

It shouldn't, but someone will bring up his name I guarantee it.  To me it's simply a matter of when to judge a coach...we all have different measurement periods, clearly.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 29, 2010, 02:59:52 PM
It shouldn't, but someone will bring up his name I guarantee it.  To me it's simply a matter of when to judge a coach...we all have different measurement periods, clearly.

I believe we should be hearing from the IIII jury soon enough. I await their verdict with great relish.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 29, 2010, 02:59:52 PM
It shouldn't, but someone will bring up his name I guarantee it.  To me it's simply a matter of when to judge a coach...we all have different measurement periods, clearly.

Yes, but I don't agree with yours, therefore I will use it to mock you.

Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on September 29, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
I believe we should be hearing from the IIII jury soon enough. I await their verdict with great relish.

It took them 30 years before they decided to fire Bob Knight.  Maybe that should be our new standard.

Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on September 29, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
I believe we should be hearing from the IIII jury soon enough. I await their verdict with great relish.

Uhm ok.  Last I checked Fred Glass and McRobbie will make that decision as they are judge and jury for the most part.  My guess is they will land Yogi Ferrell in the next few weeks. If they get Zeller away from UNC, well that would be a very big get for them (odds are they won't, but you never know).  He has verbals from 3 very good players in 2012 through 2014.  I think you are going to wait quite awhile for that relished verdict.  IMO

Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on September 29, 2010, 02:42:33 PM
So we should expect Magic to happen down in Bloomington? Thank God. I was beginning to think Tom Crean had lost his touch. After all, recruiting to IIII is, how you say, simple as pie, no?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Why does someone have to start this in every thread? They are just waiting for you to bring it up so they can hijack another one.  Don't play into their dastardly plans....

Tom Crean

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 29, 2010, 02:59:52 PM
It shouldn't, but someone will bring up his name I guarantee it.  To me it's simply a matter of when to judge a coach...we all have different measurement periods, clearly.

Yes....someone ELSE always brings his name up, don't they Chicos?

Tom Crean....muahhahahahaha

Quote from: TheRock on September 29, 2010, 04:20:04 PM
Tom Crean

You said the word! Stop saying the word!

(http://images1.fanpop.com/images/quiz/28252_1215437480748_500_276.jpg)

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 29, 2010, 02:55:56 PM
Simple as pie?  No, but I would think if he can recruit to a losing team (14-15), no facilities, Conference USA, non-NIT program that had one Sweet 16 team in 20 years and more years of non-NCAA appearances than NCAA appearances in that same period and turn them into a Final Four program.....I'd think he can probably have an easier time in the LONG RUN at IU than MU.  Easy as pie?  No.  Easier in the long run?  Yes.  Stable conference, state that produces better basketball talent, long long history of winning, etc, etc.  Just my hunch, we'll see over the long run how it turns out.

How do you reconcile Crean's recruiting getting WORSE after the Final Four, and Al McGuire Center were built..and for that matter once we joined the Big East?  2004, 2006, and 2007 classes were pretty weak.

Quote from: Ners on September 29, 2010, 04:30:09 PM
How do you reconcile Crean's recruiting getting WORSE after the Final Four, and Al McGuire Center were built..and for that matter once we joined the Big East?  2004, 2006, and 2007 classes were pretty weak.

I would say 05 and 06 were pretty good.  2 NBA players...that's not bad

Quote from: Ners on September 29, 2010, 04:30:09 PM
How do you reconcile Crean's recruiting getting WORSE after the Final Four, and Al McGuire Center were built..and for that matter once we joined the Big East?  2004, 2006, and 2007 classes were pretty weak.

I didn't realize landing 4 of the top 10 scorers of all time in Marquette history AFTER the Final Four (James, McNeil, Matthews, Hayward), including two that went to the NBA as an example of getting WORSE.  Yes, some of those classes were complete losses, no doubt.  In some cases I thought Crean had Barry Alvarez syndrome and shot too high and finished bride's maid too many times.  Whether or not the recruiting got worse, from a depth perspective certainly, from a starters \ stars perspective....not sure I agree.  Then again, when you land a Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Stever Novak in some of your first few classes, it's difficult to maintain.  Let's see if someone else can pull that off....let alone grab someone of the caliber of a Wade, Dienver, Novak to begin with. 

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 29, 2010, 02:55:56 PM
Simple as pie?  No, but I would think if he can recruit to a losing team (14-15), no facilities, Conference USA, non-NIT program that had one Sweet 16 team in 20 years and more years of non-NCAA appearances than NCAA appearances in that same period and turn them into a Final Four program.....I'd think he can probably have an easier time in the LONG RUN at IU than MU.  Easy as pie?  No.  Easier in the long run?  Yes.  Stable conference, state that produces better basketball talent, long long history of winning, etc, etc.  Just my hunch, we'll see over the long run how it turns out.

For f@#&'s sake you make this board completely unreadable. Must you constantly give verbal blowjobs to Crean? Indiana has a board if you want to go talk ad nauseum about his accomplishments. You know he hasn't been the coach since April '08 right?

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 29, 2010, 06:40:57 PM
I didn't realize landing 4 of the top 10 scorers of all time in Marquette history AFTER the Final Four (James, McNeil, Matthews, Hayward), including two that went to the NBA as an example of getting WORSE.  Yes, some of those classes were complete losses, no doubt.  

Is that McNeil guy related to O'Tule?

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 29, 2010, 06:40:57 PM
I didn't realize landing 4 of the top 10 scorers of all time in Marquette history AFTER the Final Four (James, McNeil, Matthews, Hayward), including two that went to the NBA as an example of getting WORSE.  Yes, some of those classes were complete losses, no doubt.  In some cases I thought Crean had Barry Alvarez syndrome and shot too high and finished bride's maid too many times.  Whether or not the recruiting got worse, from a depth perspective certainly, from a starters \ stars perspective....not sure I agree.  Then again, when you land a Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Stever Novak in some of your first few classes, it's difficult to maintain.  Let's see if someone else can pull that off....let alone grab someone of the caliber of a Wade, Dienver, Novak to begin with. 

I think you pretty much made my point - prior to the Al, Big East, or Final Four Crean landed Wade, Novak and Diener.  In the 4 years following..he landed 1 GREAT class of Wes, Dom, Jerel.  Had he recruited well in  2003, 2004 - Wes, Rel and Dom wouldn't have been forced to be thrust into the starting lineup as freshman.  That said, 05-06 was by far Crean's best coaching job.  But to say that he recruited so much better after the Final Four, Al, and Big East membership - than he did when he came on board and we were in C-USA, 14-15, had the Old Gym - I just don't see it.

Quote from: Ners on September 29, 2010, 09:54:55 PM
I think you pretty much made my point - prior to the Al, Big East, or Final Four Crean landed Wade, Novak and Diener.  In the 4 years following..he landed 1 GREAT class of Wes, Dom, Jerel.  Had he recruited well in  2003, 2004 - Wes, Rel and Dom wouldn't have been forced to be thrust into the starting lineup as freshman.  That said, 05-06 was by far Crean's best coaching job.  But to say that he recruited so much better after the Final Four, Al, and Big East membership - than he did when he came on board and we were in C-USA, 14-15, had the Old Gym - I just don't see it.

You're right, he recruited bad because he didn't land one of the TOP 5 players in the NBA.  Freshman routinely start right away if they're good enough, which Wes, DJ, and Jerel were.

Stop being stupid.

Quote from: TheRock on September 30, 2010, 09:16:01 AM

Stop being stupid.

You are all being stupid.

Crean was great for Marquette while he was here, not only breathing new life into our program but also associating us up with the most visible and famous NBA player to come out of college in the past 15-20 years, as well as lining us up with Buzz, who I think will be a better coach, recruiter, person and representative for Marquette.

There is nothing bad Crean ever did to Marquette and Buzz has done absolutely nothing but impress everyone since day 1. So what the hell are you all always fighting about?? Just shut up for once!

Quote from: TheRock on September 30, 2010, 09:16:01 AM
You're right, he recruited bad because he didn't land one of the TOP 5 players in the NBA.  Freshman routinely start right away if they're good enough, which Wes, DJ, and Jerel were.

Stop being stupid.

You are aware he couldn't have landed D-Wade if we were in the Big East correct?  You are aware that due to D-Wade's Prop 48/partial qualifier status, our competition for his services was Bradley University?  You are aware that the debate between me and Chicos pertained to TC's recruiting before and after the Al/Final Four/Big East inclusion - and Chicos implied how much easier/better it would be for TC after those milestones..when in reality..TC's recruiting stayed almost exactly the same.  The guy did a very good job at MU - I'm not saying he didn't..just pointing out the slight fallacy of Chico's argument.

So, before you call anyone stupid - please know what the hell you are talking about. 

Quote from: Aughnanure on September 30, 2010, 09:26:53 AM
You are all being stupid.

Crean was great for Marquette while he was here, not only breathing new life into our program but also associating us up with the most visible and famous NBA player to come out of college in the past 15-20 years, as well as lining us up with Buzz, who I think will be a better coach, recruiter, person and representative for Marquette.

There is nothing bad Crean ever did to Marquette and Buzz has done absolutely nothing but impress everyone since day 1. So what the hell are you all always fighting about?? Just shut up for once!

+1ⁿ     n=∞

Quote from: Ners on September 30, 2010, 09:40:17 AM
You are aware he couldn't have landed D-Wade if we were in the Big East correct?  You are aware that due to D-Wade's Prop 48/partial qualifier status, our competition for his services was Bradley University?  You are aware that the debate between me and Chicos pertained to TC's recruiting before and after the Al/Final Four/Big East inclusion - and Chicos implied how much easier/better it would be for TC after those milestones..when in reality..TC's recruiting stayed almost exactly the same.  The guy did a very good job at MU - I'm not saying he didn't..just pointing out the slight fallacy of Chico's argument.

So, before you call anyone stupid - please know what the hell you are talking about. 

To be fair, you have to include Mbakwe and Tyshawn Taylor as part of Crean's post McGuire Center recruiting.

I think in the long run the Al and the Big East would have to be advantages for any coach. It might not be blatantly obvious after a few seasons, but over time it would have been a great asset(s) and the players Crean got to come to MU would have reflected that.

Quote from: 2002MUalum on September 30, 2010, 10:05:29 AM
To be fair, you have to include Mbakwe and Tyshawn Taylor as part of Crean's post McGuire Center recruiting.

I think in the long run the Al and the Big East would have to be advantages for any coach. It might not be blatantly obvious after a few seasons, but over time it would have been a great asset(s) and the players Crean got to come to MU would have reflected that.

Buzz seems to be taking advantage of all these things and has brought in some good recruiting classes himself.

Quote from: TheRock on September 30, 2010, 10:06:52 AM
Buzz seems to be taking advantage of all these things and has brought in some good recruiting classes himself.

Agree. Very pleased with the talent coming in.

Quote from: MUBasketball on September 29, 2010, 06:52:09 PM
For f@#&'s sake you make this board completely unreadable. Must you constantly give verbal blowjobs to Crean? Indiana has a board if you want to go talk ad nauseum about his accomplishments. You know he hasn't been the coach since April '08 right?

I didn't bring him up and the ignore button is your friend, try using it.  Or simply skip my posts (and all the others of those that bring him up).

Yes, I realize he isn't the coach, which begs the question why so many people (not me) keep bringing him up, but I don't see you flying off the handle toward those folks....hmmm....

Tom Crean



Oh no, why on earth would I even mention his name?

He's never done anything for MU

Quote from: 2002MUalum on September 30, 2010, 10:05:29 AM
To be fair, you have to include Mbakwe and Tyshawn Taylor as part of Crean's post McGuire Center recruiting.

I think in the long run the Al and the Big East would have to be advantages for any coach. It might not be blatantly obvious after a few seasons, but over time it would have been a great asset(s) and the players Crean got to come to MU would have reflected that.

That is a good point - both Taylor and Mbakwe were Top 100 guys - and I don't doubt that having the Al, Big East, and our run of now 5 straight NCAA appearances makes things easier as far as recruiting - but the original point still was before/after all of that..and before we landed about an equal number of Top 100 guys:  Merritt, Novak, Diener, Wade..as after...Wes, Rel, Dom, Zar (Mason transfer), Mbawke.  Basically there were 4 years before the Final Four, and 5 after - if you average things out..we roughly signed about 1 Top 100 kid every year of TC's regime...and there wasn't a significant accelration in Top 100 recruits coming to MU after all of the aforementioned milestones.  And..I'm NOT being critical of TC..just pointing out the reality.

Quote from: TheRock on September 30, 2010, 10:28:51 AM
Tom Crean



Oh no, why on earth would I even mention his name?

He's never done anything for MU

You make this board #$^&#$ unreadable

-sincerely, MU Basketball

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 30, 2010, 10:22:50 AM
I didn't bring him up and the ignore button is your friend, try using it.  Or simply skip my posts (and all the others of those that bring him up).

Yes, I realize he isn't the coach, which begs the question why so many people (not me) keep bringing him up, but I don't see you flying off the handle toward those folks....hmmm....

Mom! He started it!

Clearly you're blameless for the incessant bickering about Tom Crean around here.

Quote from: PBRme on September 30, 2010, 09:46:25 AM

+1ⁿ     n=∞

I totally agree that aughnanure summed up the ridiculousness and pettiness of the Tom Crean bashing very well. But, 1 to the infinite power still only equals 1.

Quote from: Ners on September 30, 2010, 10:29:53 AM
That is a good point - both Taylor and Mbakwe were Top 100 guys - and I don't doubt that having the Al, Big East, and our run of now 5 straight NCAA appearances makes things easier as far as recruiting - but the original point still was before/after all of that..and before we landed about an equal number of Top 100 guys:  Merritt, Novak, Diener, Wade..as after...Wes, Rel, Dom, Zar (Mason transfer), Mbawke.  Basically there were 4 years before the Final Four, and 5 after - if you average things out..we roughly signed about 1 Top 100 kid every year of TC's regime...and there wasn't a significant accelration in Top 100 recruits coming to MU after all of the aforementioned milestones.  And..I'm NOT being critical of TC..just pointing out the reality.

Well, I'm not a recruiting expert, but, I will say this: Not all top 100 guys are equal, so I'm not sure it's as simple as saying the statement highlighted above. I understand from a macro level, but I don't think that's a good enough strategy here.

If we really want to examine the pre/post McGuire center bump, we'd have to look at RSCI rankings. Also, we have to take into account that once the money was there for the Al, that it could be used as a selling point. As early as March of 2002, we knew the facility would be built, so Crean could sell it to incoming recruits at that point.

So, I guess Crean recruited 00,01 and probably most of the 02 kids without the Al.

That's 3 seasons. He recruited 03,04,05,06,07 and 08 with the incoming guys knowing the Al was going to be built, or already built.

I don't know where this puts us exactly, I'm just trying to lay out the facts as we know them.


*As I re-read my post, my gut says that maybe our sample sizes just aren't big enough to draw any real conclusions, but I also know that message boards are not designed for that kind of chatter. I'm supposed to make a bold statement about this coach or that coach, and then you and I can argue about it for months, ruining several threads in the process.

Quote from: 2002MUalum on September 30, 2010, 11:11:44 AM
*As I re-read my post, my gut says that maybe our sample sizes just aren't big enough to draw any real conclusions, but I also know that message boards are not designed for that kind of chatter. I'm supposed to make a bold statement about this coach or that coach, and then you and I can argue about it for months, ruining several threads in the process.

Why the hell can't you just take a stand.  I hate you for not picking Buzz over TC.  How could you be so shortsighted?

Quote from: Pakuni on September 30, 2010, 10:34:21 AM
Mom! He started it!

Clearly you're blameless for the incessant bickering about Tom Crean around here.

Not blameless, I just love it when someone goes on the attack and skips over the first 3, 6, 23 posters that say it and then choose one.  It somewhat degrades their attack a smidge.

Quote from: TheRock on September 30, 2010, 11:14:10 AM
Why the hell can't you just take a stand.  I hate you for not picking Buzz over TC.  How could you be so shortsighted?

Fine. I like Deane the best.

Now everybody can hate me.

Quote from: MarkCharles on September 30, 2010, 10:50:46 AM
I totally agree that aughnanure summed up the ridiculousness and pettiness of the Tom Crean bashing very well. But, 1 to the infinite power still only equals 1.

It does not equal 1, it is undefined.

How the hell do many of these posts morph into a Tom Crean-Buzz feud?

Stick with the topic, people.

Quote from: Ners on September 30, 2010, 10:29:53 AM
That is a good point - both Taylor and Mbakwe were Top 100 guys - and I don't doubt that having the Al, Big East, and our run of now 5 straight NCAA appearances makes things easier as far as recruiting - but the original point still was before/after all of that..and before we landed about an equal number of Top 100 guys:  Merritt, Novak, Diener, Wade..as after...Wes, Rel, Dom, Zar (Mason transfer), Mbawke.  Basically there were 4 years before the Final Four, and 5 after - if you average things out..we roughly signed about 1 Top 100 kid every year of TC's regime...and there wasn't a significant accelration in Top 100 recruits coming to MU after all of the aforementioned milestones.  And..I'm NOT being critical of TC..just pointing out the reality.

Wade and Zar were not consensus Top 100 recruits.  Both got some mentions, but not enough to make the consensus rankings.  If you're going to include guys like them that didn't make consensus rankings then you need to include guys like Odartey Blankson, Ron Howard, Karon Bradley, and Brandon Bell who also made at least one Top 100 list but not enough to be a consensus Top 100 player.  

Quote from: 2002MUalum on September 30, 2010, 11:11:44 AM
If we really want to examine the pre/post McGuire center bump, we'd have to look at RSCI rankings. Also, we have to take into account that once the money was there for the Al, that it could be used as a selling point. As early as March of 2002, we knew the facility would be built, so Crean could sell it to incoming recruits at that point.

So, I guess Crean recruited 00,01 and probably most of the 02 kids without the Al.

That's 3 seasons. He recruited 03,04,05,06,07 and 08 with the incoming guys knowing the Al was going to be built, or already built.

I don't know where this puts us exactly, I'm just trying to lay out the facts as we know them.

It gives the post-Al group a decided advantage.

Prior to the Al
Scott Merritt
Travis Diener
Steve Novak
Robert Jackson

Post Al Announcement
Dameon Mason
Dominic James
Wes Matthews
Jerel McNeal
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor
Nick Williams

If you want to include players that weren't consensus Top 100 but made at least one list...

Pre-Al Announcement
Odartey Blankson
Dwyane Wade
Scott Merritt
Travis Diener
Ron Howard
Steve Novak
Karon Bradley

Post Al Announcement
Dameon Mason
Brandon Bell
Dominic James
Wes Matthews
Jerel McNeal
Lazar Hayward
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor
Nick Williams

Quote from: bma725 on September 30, 2010, 12:18:08 PM
It gives the post-Al group a decided advantage.

Prior to the Al
Scott Merritt
Travis Diener
Steve Novak
Robert Jackson

Post Al Announcement
Dameon Mason
Dominic James
Wes Matthews
Jerel McNeal
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor
Nick Williams

If you want to include players that weren't consensus Top 100 but made at least one list...

Pre-Al Announcement
Odartey Blankson
Dwyane Wade
Scott Merritt
Travis Diener
Ron Howard
Steve Novak
Karon Bradley

Post Al Announcement
Dameon Mason
Brandon Bell
Dominic James
Wes Matthews
Jerel McNeal
Lazar Hayward
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor
Nick Williams

Gives the post Al group a decided advantage in the RCSI maybe, but in a game of basketball the pre Al team would cruise.

Quote from: Eford4President2012 on September 30, 2010, 11:37:28 AM
It does not equal 1, it is undefined.

I guess if you want to look at it that way, by the letter of mathematical law, infinity is inherently undefined. But no matter how many times you multiply 1x1, it will always be 1.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 30, 2010, 12:50:25 PM
Gives the post Al group a decided advantage in the RCSI maybe, but in a game of basketball the pre Al team would cruise.

You might be right, but we are talking strictly about recruiting (ranking), not performance.

Common thought is that top notch facilities make it easier to bring in talented players.

BMA's research confirms that.

However, with this said, we have to realize that there are hundreds of factors to a kid's recruitment, and the practice facility is just one of them.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 30, 2010, 10:22:50 AM
I didn't bring him up and the ignore button is your friend, try using it.  Or simply skip my posts (and all the others of those that bring him up).

Yes, I realize he isn't the coach, which begs the question why so many people (not me) keep bringing him up, but I don't see you flying off the handle toward those folks....hmmm....

First off, your first post in this thread obviously eludes to the Crean Vs Buzz debate and your general feelings on judging Buzz so far Then it was immediately quoted by a few other posters hoping it doesnt turn into a Crean v Buzz debate.

After that, one person then used your quote (which technically does not "bring up" Crean) to bring up Crean's lack of success at Indiana -  and you bit...HARD!  The next thing that happens is another stupid round of debates about the same pointless subject.

The point is, you can try and tell yourself you are not the reason these debates keep getting started or why they continue, but you sure as hell are attracted to them and are key in maintaining their survival.

Let us make this discussion more mindless by adding a Warrior .// Eagle discussion

Quote from: PBRme on September 30, 2010, 02:48:54 PM
Let us make this discussion more mindless by adding a Warrior .// Eagle discussion

Why can't we recruit a big man?!

Quote from: Henry Sugar on September 30, 2010, 03:01:06 PM
Why can't we recruit a big man?!

Why doesn't this team practice free throws?

Quote from: Pakuni on September 30, 2010, 03:01:53 PM
Why doesn't this team practice free throws?

Is the Al McGuire Center court the reason for all the foot and leg injuries?

Quote from: Pakuni on September 30, 2010, 03:01:53 PM
Why doesn't this team practice free throws?

Why don't we foul up three late and when will Buzz learn how to use his timeouts?

Touche' to the last four posts

Quote from: Aughnanure on September 30, 2010, 02:30:59 PM
First off, your first post in this thread obviously eludes to the Crean Vs Buzz debate and your general feelings on judging Buzz so far Then it was immediately quoted by a few other posters hoping it doesnt turn into a Crean v Buzz debate.

After that, one person then used your quote (which technically does not "bring up" Crean) to bring up Crean's lack of success at Indiana -  and you bit...HARD!  The next thing that happens is another stupid round of debates about the same pointless subject.

The point is, you can try and tell yourself you are not the reason these debates keep getting started or why they continue, but you sure as hell are attracted to them and are key in maintaining their survival.

Please try again.

Wrong, my first post is about judging coaches too quickly and has nothing to do with Crean at all.

Secondly, no, it was not "one person" that brought him up.  Merrits Mustache brought him up 2 posts later.  Still A Warrior commented on that thread the very next post.  Taste of Garlic brought him up 4 posts later.  MU Burrow one post after that.

That's four people before I ever went down the path, and that's exactly my point.

The fact of the matter is I never brought him up at all before FOUR people did.  That is fact.  Please, go read again and count. 

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 30, 2010, 05:38:57 PM
Please try again.

Wrong, my first post is about judging coaches too quickly and has nothing to do with Crean at all.

Secondly, no, it was not "one person" that brought him up.  Merrits Mustache brought him up 2 posts later.  Still A Warrior commented on that thread the very next post.  Taste of Garlic brought him up 4 posts later.  MU Burrow one post after that.

That's four people before I ever went down the path, and that's exactly my point.

The fact of the matter is I never brought him up at all before FOUR people did.  That is fact.  Please, go read again and count.  

You should check MY post first then, because I admit you never "technically" brought his name up. Instead, you eluded to him first. You can try to deny that but no one else on this board would have so many people responding as though you did - THAT is how much you argue over this.

I thought I made it clear (though not as expressly as you did) that you never mentioned his name....but whose post was it that was referenced to bring up Crean first (your actual intention/fault or not)?

I am making the point that although you try to deny that it is not you that starts these stupid arguments (and I understand your point on this one specific thread) you do seem to ALWAYS find yourself involved in them highly.

Maybe it is people unfairly labeling you or assuming you are referring to Crean whenever you post something somewhat critical of the current administration, but please note that you have been involved in nearly every one, and most from their genesis. After 8000 posts, I think you've built a little reputation on here that (fairly or unfairly)  has carried people's perceptions of your intent into your new posts.

We need a thread on the merits of Listerine vs Scope

Quote from: bma725 on September 30, 2010, 12:18:08 PM
It gives the post-Al group a decided advantage.

Prior to the Al
Scott Merritt
Travis Diener
Steve Novak
Robert Jackson

Post Al Announcement
Dameon Mason
Dominic James
Wes Matthews
Jerel McNeal
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor
Nick Williams

If you want to include players that weren't consensus Top 100 but made at least one list...

Pre-Al Announcement
Odartey Blankson
Dwyane Wade
Scott Merritt
Travis Diener
Ron Howard
Steve Novak
Karon Bradley

Post Al Announcement
Dameon Mason
Brandon Bell
Dominic James
Wes Matthews
Jerel McNeal
Lazar Hayward
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor
Nick Williams

Does the fact that Trevor Mbakwe was recruited post Al announcement make the Al a bad thing?

Quote from: TheTasteofGarlic on October 08, 2010, 10:24:20 AM
We need a thread on the merits of Listerine vs Scope

Perhaps that thread would not be of as great of interest to those of us whom do not refer to garlic in our user names.

Quote from: Aughnanure on September 30, 2010, 07:14:15 PM
You should check MY post first then, because I admit you never "technically" brought his name up. Instead, you eluded to him first. You can try to deny that but no one else on this board would have so many people responding as though you did

This is my continued frustration.  People read things that are absolutely NOT THERE.  Then we get into folks playing psychiatrist and stating what I (or others) actually meant, which you would think the actual poster knows exactly what they mean and what they wrote.  Then we get into things like "technically" or depends what is is.

No thanks, not playing that game.  I didn't mention him at all and in no way, shape or form eluded to him (directly or indirectly) but you went down that path.  There's nothing I can do about that, you're going to see what you see...if I say night, you'll say day, if I say black, you'll say white.  So why bother.  I mean really, why bother.