http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/13997096/college-hoops-coaches-learn-when-no-is-a-good-answer
Good read, I wonder where Buzz falls in this article. I think he's smart enough to know, but at the same time we are on a bunch more top 5 lists than we used to be. Did/Does he think deep down Snear, Dawson, QMiller etc.. were ever really going to come to MU?
Excellent, excellent article... I guess we will only see if Buzz is this perceptive over the course of a few recruting seasons. My favorite quote, and I pull this out simply because we talk about Dixon often here:
"Multiple coaches told me over the past few weeks that Dixon is one of the best at distinguishing between what's realistic and what's not, and that he doesn't waste much time with what's not."
I hope he employs the Jamie Dixon approach soon. There are a number of guys (i.e. Shaw, Miller, Faust, Harrison, Hood), who we have little hope of landing. Need to switch gears to the Plan B guys or risk losing them, too.
Al McGuire commented a number of times over the years that he prefered a "no" over a "maybe"
Quote from: Boone on September 22, 2010, 09:52:25 PM
I hope he employs the Jamie Dixon approach soon. There are a number of guys (i.e. Shaw, Miller, Faust, Harrison, Hood), who we have little hope of landing. Need to switch gears to the Plan B guys or risk losing them, too.
While I do agree with your premise, I don't know if I would include someone like Shaw on this list. My feeling is that we have a realistic chance with him.
Now as for Dawson...
Quote from: Boone on September 22, 2010, 09:52:25 PM
I hope he employs the Jamie Dixon approach soon. There are a number of guys (i.e. Shaw, Miller, Faust, Harrison, Hood), who we have little hope of landing. Need to switch gears to the Plan B guys or risk losing them, too.
Boone you have absolutely zero clue as to how close those kids may or may not be to commiting to MU. You probably felt the same way about Jamial Jones and Vander Blue last year and Junior cadougan the year before.
Bottom line is Buzz gets paid 7 figures to assess his potential in landing players and needs to make the decison of when to fish and when to cut bait.
Well, Canadian, I know how to read, and it certainly appears that those 5 guys will not be committing to MU.
Actually, we're hearing a lot more lately about our interest in kids like Henry, Thomas and Kimbro, so maybe Buzz is switching gears after all.
Buzz has so much energy that I am not worried about going for a home run and missing on other kids.
I appreciate his persistence. With technology, it can't be that hard to contact kids directly, and kids can get a good look at the program through the YouTube videos and information about a program.
You also never know if someone will end up not like his school and choose MU so it does not hurt to build relationships.
Quote from: Boone on September 22, 2010, 10:09:16 PM
it certainly appears that those 5 guys will not be committing to MU.
What is your basis for Shaw? This program makes a lot of sense for him. It is close to home, he plays in the Big East, Reggie Smith is here, and Buzz just put a SF/PF into the NBA.
What has Shaw said that suggests that he has a favorite out of his top 4? You may be right, I am just honestly curious because everything I have seen suggests an equal shot for all the schools.
Quote from: Boone on September 22, 2010, 09:52:25 PM
I hope he employs the Jamie Dixon approach soon. There are a number of guys (i.e. Shaw, Miller, Faust, Harrison, Hood), who we have little hope of landing. Need to switch gears to the Plan B guys or risk losing them, too.
Man, giving Buzz no benefit of the doubt.
Buzz has had an in-home visit with Shaw, Harrison, and Hood in the last 10 days, and none of them have committed since. Not sure why we're not at least in the running for each of them.
He had a meeting (not sure if it was an in-home or what) with Miller in the last week, and MU has since made his cut of schools from 12 to 5. He got out of UL visit without a commitment, which many thought wouldn't happen. There is no reason he would keep us on that list so recently other than genuine interest.
As for Faust, he has not had a visit with Buzz in a while, but the thought all along has been us or Maryland. Fl st. just signed another 2 guard today, a good indication Faust isn't in their future. I can't possibly see how he picks Oregon St. over us. It really should be us and MD, and if he was as sold on them as everyone feared he was, he would have committed already. Maybe not the leader, but its not overly optimistic to say we have a very nice shot with him.
Now, we might not be the leader with any of these guys. But thats just how recruiting works, inevitably you have a lot more hits than misses. All it takes is one hit, and we have a great class. You may not be as confident that it will happen as some, but I will give Buzz the benefit of the doubt until he doesn't bring in a very good class.
Even if all these guys fall through, we have guys like Juan Anderson, DaMarcus Harrison, Jarion Henry, Tony Kimbro, Trey McDonald, etc. who would only be consolation prizes in comparison to some of our loftier targets.
I sense that there is real value on making onto the final 5 list of top players, even if we rarely get them to commit. I assume that players talk at AAU games and whatever other times top players get together. There have got to be occasions where simply hearing that one player is considering MU will lead another to consider it. It is a form of marketing (or is that Marquette-ing?) that can't really be quantified, but can have an impact. Much as folks think getting Blue was partly a result of having gotten Maymon, of thinking that Blue's contacts with others on the national team could lead to other signees, of hoping that Smith's former teammates might now consider MU since he's here, I think it is a good thing.
Good article, well worth the read. That being said...
Quote from: Boone on September 22, 2010, 09:52:25 PM
I hope he employs the Jamie Dixon approach soon. There are a number of guys (i.e. Shaw, Miller, Faust, Harrison, Hood), who we have little hope of landing. Need to switch gears to the Plan B guys or risk losing them, too.
I'm not sure I agree with this. I think that after not committing to Maryland, Faust is realistic. I've seen no indication that we can't get Shaw. Hood and Harrison might be a bit longer shots, and Miller seems unlikely to me (though I'm hopeful). Still, I feel a recruiting class of Faust, Shaw, and someone like Kimbro or Anderson is realistic. And if Buzz wants to chase a dragon like Miller in the hopes that he doesn't commit at Duke's Madness, I can live with that.
If there was ever a year for Buzz to reach for the stars and pursue high level recruits, this is probably it. The roster is pretty solid for the next year or two, and we don't have any huge glaring holes (we could use a dominant big man, but so could everyone else). If Buzz swings for the fences and misses this year, it doesn't set us back too far. I say swing away Buzz. If he connects on one or two of these guys, it could put us over the top. Kinda of a low risk, high reward situation.
Quote from: Litehouse on September 23, 2010, 07:28:57 AM
If there was ever a year for Buzz to reach for the stars and pursue high level recruits, this is probably it. The roster is pretty solid for the next year or two, and we don't have any huge glaring holes (we could use a dominant big man, but so could everyone else). If Buzz swings for the fences and misses this year, it doesn't set us back too far. I say swing away Buzz. If he connects on one or two of these guys, it could put us over the top. Kinda of a low risk, high reward situation.
Exactly. There have been posts about us having a "logjam" at the 2-3-4 position...This is as good a year as any to at least take a shot.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 22, 2010, 09:53:29 PM
Al McGuire commented a number of times over the years that he prefered a "no" over a "maybe"
This motto should apply to all of us in our personal and professional relationships. Rarely should we permit a maybe to exist...maybe is the worst answer a salesperson can get. Yes or no are the only two options. Obviously in the world of college basketball recruiting, coaches must spend a large part of their time living in "maybe." Perhaps Jamie Dixon is just very, very candid and to the point to where he says: Shoot me straight - are you legitmately interested in the University of Pittsburgh - or am I spinning my wheels/wasting my time? That said, I'll still take the Jim Valvano approach of "Never give up. Never give up." Swing away Buzz. What may be different this year than past years is that we are on the final cut list of 4 Top 58 players..as opposed to usually only 1 under the previous regime..so when a Schumpert doesn't sign..we have no other options.
u are correct Ners...I have worked in sales since college and very shortly i learned to consider a "maybe" as a "no". on to the next preospect i am wasting my time here is the attitude.
Now collge basketball recruiting is different to a degree as the pool is much more finite and i sell a concept and am not typically selling it against 5 other people offering a very similar product. but if people dont jump into what i am offering after a meeting or two ..maybe three if i see some real potential..i am gone.
Quote from: Boone on September 22, 2010, 10:09:16 PM
Well, Canadian, I know how to read, and it certainly appears that those 5 guys will not be committing to MU.
Actually, we're hearing a lot more lately about our interest in kids like Henry, Thomas and Kimbro, so maybe Buzz is switching gears after all.
Boone you are incredibly perplexing.
Lets see harrison has said his three leaders are BAylor OSu and MU...seeing as how he visited baylor on an official but did not commit. I would personally think that increases MUs chances. Shaw visited Depaul and did not commit. His coach is interviewed and says Buzz is one of the best coaches in the game and gets the most out of his players in the last week. Faust is visiting Maryland if he does not commit it increases Mu's chances...So on and so on.
I cannot see how your ability to read convinces you that these players will certainly not be attending MU. Mu has signed 5 top 100 players in the last two years...what would make you so certain that we dont sign another 2 or 3 this year?
I dated a chick at MU who kept saying maybe, then it was a no. Didn't want to push because legally no means no.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 23, 2010, 09:02:26 AM
... and I find your last sentence somewhat perplexing, as well, mon frere. Which of the categories of "Yes," "No," or "Maybe" does it fall?
Quote from: Boone on September 22, 2010, 09:52:25 PM
I hope he employs the Jamie Dixon approach soon. There are a number of guys (i.e. Shaw, Miller, Faust, Harrison, Hood), who we have little hope of landing. Need to switch gears to the Plan B guys or risk losing them, too.
What if Boone isn't the only person who's hearing we have little chance at these types of prospects? When does it turn from a couple people who think we're out to plugged in knowledge of us being out of the running?
Anything can happen, and it changes daily, but the momentum is in reverse.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 23, 2010, 08:51:53 AM
u are correct Ners...I have worked in sales since college and very shortly i learned to consider a "maybe" as a "no". on to the next preospect i am wasting my time here is the attitude.
Now collge basketball recruiting is different to a degree as the pool is much more finite and i sell a concept and am not typically selling it against 5 other people offering a very similar product. but if people dont jump into what i am offering after a meeting or two ..maybe three if i see some real potential..i am gone.
You need to update your French to English software
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 23, 2010, 02:51:29 PM
What if Boone isn't the only person who's hearing we have little chance at these types of prospects? When does it turn from a couple people who think we're out to plugged in knowledge of us being out of the running?
Anything can happen, and it changes daily, but the momentum is in reverse.
Dude, get a grip. The sky isn't falling. Our coach knows what the F he's doing, o.k.?
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 23, 2010, 02:51:29 PM
What if Boone isn't the only person who's hearing we have little chance at these types of prospects? When does it turn from a couple people who think we're out to plugged in knowledge of us being out of the running?
Anything can happen, and it changes daily, but the momentum is in reverse.
what if? what if? It dont matter s#!t what boone or anyone else is hearing anything. Buzz is talking to these kids every single day and has been recruiting for more than half of his life and has been considered one of the best recruiters in collges basketball. he has signed 5 top 100 kids in 2 years. He is fully qualified to determine when and if to change directions. If buzz is so incompetent to not know which recruits are attainable and which ones are not and which ones he ultimately needs to sign to be successful then he will not be employed at MU for much longer.
I on the other hand have tremendous confidence that Buzz will sign another really good class. Whether that means he signs any of these top 5 kids that have been so often referenced or not. That is based on the 3 classes he has signed since being in charge of Mu recruiting. I realize that past performance is not a guarantee of future results...but i also beleive that what has happend 100% of the time in the past might just happen again.
Quote from: PBRme on September 23, 2010, 02:54:15 PM
You need to update your French to English software
Now that was funny!! Well played
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 23, 2010, 02:51:29 PM
What if Boone isn't the only person who's hearing we have little chance at these types of prospects? When does it turn from a couple people who think we're out to plugged in knowledge of us being out of the running?
Anything can happen, and it changes daily, but the momentum is in reverse.
Whos to say Boone is actually hearing anything the rest of us don't know? It seems to me that he and the other pessimists here are just basing these predictions off of random recruitment articles that always seem to have a certain program's spin on them.
I will trust in Buzz until he gives me a reason not to.
For the record, two posts modified and a bunch on the end deleted. Try to keep this on track guys.
Quote from: MarkCharles on September 23, 2010, 03:33:26 PM
Whos to say Boone is actually hearing anything the rest of us don't know? It seems to me that he and the other pessimists here are just basing these predictions off of random recruitment articles that always seem to have a certain program's spin on them.
I will trust in Buzz until he gives me a reason not to.
I'll say Boone is hearing more then most people here. He's been right on the spot this summer in more than one instance before it became public knowledge.
And why is it always a referendum on Buzz? Why is writing that we have little chance landing a likely one-and-done Miller disbelief in Buzz? Why is writing that the hometown kid Faust has been Gary Williams' to lose for more then two months evidence that the person must hate Buzz to write that? Why is writing that it will be hard for Harrison to turn down an attractive package in Waco anti-Buzz?
Things can change but I don't think Boone, myself, or any number of other people are being overtly negative when we look at those few recruits and cast a skeptical eye whether they'll play for MU.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 23, 2010, 08:30:32 PM
I'll say Boone is hearing more then most people here. He's been right on the spot this summer in more than one instance before it became public knowledge.
And why is it always a referendum on Buzz? Why is writing that we have little chance landing a likely one-and-done Miller disbelief in Buzz? Why is writing that the hometown kid Faust has been Gary Williams' to lose for more then two months evidence that the person must hate Buzz to write that? Why is writing that it will be hard for Harrison to turn down an attractive package in Waco anti-Buzz?
Things can change but I don't think Boone, myself, or any number of other people are being overtly negative when we look at those few recruits and cast a skeptical eye whether they'll play for MU.
Being right about something on a message board hardly means someone is connected. There are a ton of predictions flying around these boards, some of it has to end up sticking. (I'm not calling out Boone here, just talking generally)
And I never said anything about this recruiting class being an indictment on Buzz. I will always judge a coach way more on what he does on the floor.
Its just that I've have seen nothing from Buzz in the field of recruiting except top 20 classes, so I will trust that very good recruiting will continue until Buzz gives me a reason not to.
Hypothetical here...food for thought
Say we miss out on all the top guys we are targeting, would you guys be satisfied with a recruiting class that looked like....
Tony Kimbro
Jarion Henry
Trey McDonald
or....
DaMarcus Harrison
Devin Langford
Keith Dewitt
Classes like those may not look great compared what we're hoping for, but I'd be fine with either of those. I have absolutely no doubt that Buzz will sign a nice class that will add a lot to the program.
First off. MU has 11 kids next year. I have a feeling the walk-on will get a scholarship next year, Mr. Singleton. So I see only
2 signings as MU is stacked at every position next year. If Buzz signs 1 kid next year, that can really play, that will be great.
Remember Al's last year he signed Robert Byrd, never got off the bench his freshman year. In saying that, maybe there is a
kid that needs sometime to improve. That might be fine as well. The bottom line MU is in on at least 7 kids in the Top 100,
when was the last time that happened. Sure he might miss on all them, but I would wait to see who is at Midnight Madness
as it should be a real show this year. Also, when you go after all these kids, there looking to see where the other recruits
are going as well. Some teams fill up like Louisville, Baylor, Kansas, and others which leaves an opening for them at MU. Some
wait till the spring as well, lucky MU has a big budget for recruiting!
Take a step back - after years of longing for a big man we now have the no.1 big man in the country down to mu and 4 other schools.
Buzz is recruiting a bunch of kids at a time, and will not be sidetracked by giving everything he has to get quincy miller as long as there is any hope.
I appreciate Al's staement in many cases, but I'm pretty confident he would have been happierwith a "maybe" than a "no" from quincy.