MUScoop

In the wake of the D-Wade poll - thought this might be an interesting question.  As many know..I'm a Buzz fanboy..that said..sincerely, my answer is yes. 

Ners, I like the optimism... But let's be real. We all know what Al accomplished... I honestly what to know, what makes you think that Buzz even has a shot to match him.

I guess that depends on your definition of on court accomplishments...Final Fours? Championships? Tournament Success? Consecutive Tournament Berths? Wins?

If he stays 10-15 years, yes, I think he will take over as the Wins leader...however, I don't think we'll ever see him lead us to 8 consecutive 5 loss or less seasons...thats just incredible.

For Buzz to do what Al Marquette would have to:

1) become one of the top 4 programs in the country within the next 3 years
2) and then stay there for a decade.

College basketball can no longer be dominated in the fashion in which Al and Coach Wooden did.

As someone said in the other thread, Wade and now Buzz stand on the shoulders of McGuire and all he built.

if he stays, I expect Buzz to acomplish something. Those are pretty lofty ambitions to compare him to Al.
IF buzz goes to or wins a nat'l championship or if MU goes to a few final fours, then yeah put him in the same boat as Al, but until then no.

Teams play so many more games today. Al's 20 win seasons equal todays 25 and his 25 wins equal todays 30. Buzz will never approach Al's career winning percentage.

If getting two technicals in an NCAA championship game and tournament collapses against Ohio State, Indiana (twice), Purdue and Kentucky (once) are benchmarks, then I hope not. If an NCAA Championship is a benchmark, I hope so.

What we forget is that Al had his warts too. He continually angered the NCAA and it took a long time before we made the Final Four (1974). In face, we only made the "Big" Dance under Al twice. Arguably, if the tournament was bracketed the way it is today we would have made it at least one other time (1976) and perhaps twice (1969). But the fact was that in the NCAA tournament, which really mattered for us at the time since we were not part of a conference, we were very mediocre until the waning days of Al's career.

All that said, may I make a suggestion to everyone out there who reads this. Let's move on! I've been a Warrior fan since the late 1960s and I loved Al. He was wonderful to experience and his legacy is everywhere at MU. But we need to respect Buzz and let him do his thing (which, arguably, has been excellent so far). We're over-Al-ed at MU. And under Buzzed! A little thing to consider -- since we have the Al McGuire Court and the Al McGuire Center, let's take the "Al" off the uniforms.

Let's love the past but our focus needs to be on the future.. not something that happened more than 30 years ago.

Quote from: dgies9156 on September 02, 2010, 06:00:15 AM
If getting two technicals in an NCAA championship game and tournament collapses against Ohio State, Indiana (twice), Purdue and Kentucky (once) are benchmarks, then I hope not. If an NCAA Championship is a benchmark, I hope so.

What we forget is that Al had his warts too. He continually angered the NCAA and it took a long time before we made the Final Four (1974). In face, we only made the "Big" Dance under Al twice. Arguably, if the tournament was bracketed the way it is today we would have made it at least one other time (1976) and perhaps twice (1969). But the fact was that in the NCAA tournament, which really mattered for us at the time since we were not part of a conference, we were very mediocre until the waning days of Al's career.

All that said, may I make a suggestion to everyone out there who reads this. Let's move on! I've been a Warrior fan since the late 1960s and I loved Al. He was wonderful to experience and his legacy is everywhere at MU. But we need to respect Buzz and let him do his thing (which, arguably, has been excellent so far). We're over-Al-ed at MU. And under Buzzed! A little thing to consider -- since we have the Al McGuire Court and the Al McGuire Center, let's take the "Al" off the uniforms.

Let's love the past but our focus needs to be on the future.. not something that happened more than 30 years ago.

+ 1 gazillion

Quote from: dgies9156 on September 02, 2010, 06:00:15 AM
If getting two technicals in an NCAA championship game and tournament collapses against Ohio State, Indiana (twice), Purdue and Kentucky (once) are benchmarks, then I hope not. If an NCAA Championship is a benchmark, I hope so.

What we forget is that Al had his warts too. He continually angered the NCAA and it took a long time before we made the Final Four (1974). In face, we only made the "Big" Dance under Al twice. Arguably, if the tournament was bracketed the way it is today we would have made it at least one other time (1976) and perhaps twice (1969). But the fact was that in the NCAA tournament, which really mattered for us at the time since we were not part of a conference, we were very mediocre until the waning days of Al's career.

All that said, may I make a suggestion to everyone out there who reads this. Let's move on! I've been a Warrior fan since the late 1960s and I loved Al. He was wonderful to experience and his legacy is everywhere at MU. But we need to respect Buzz and let him do his thing (which, arguably, has been excellent so far). We're over-Al-ed at MU. And under Buzzed! A little thing to consider -- since we have the Al McGuire Court and the Al McGuire Center, let's take the "Al" off the uniforms.

Let's love the past but our focus needs to be on the future.. not something that happened more than 30 years ago.

I disagree completely. No one said Buzz had to be as good as Al and frankly, very few expect him too. I'm a youngin so I never even got to see Al coach a game at Marquette, but I still know that without him we would be nothing. Al was, is and will always be an integral part of not only the basketball program but of Marquette itself.

As soon as I get off of work I will make every effort to staunch the problem of being too un-Buzzed

I can NEVER get too much AL!!!

With Al, we were ranked in the Top 10 for 8 years in a row (and maybe I'm wrong, but think we stayed there the entire seasons).  I would love if Buzz could do that, get us a national championship, a few other elite 8 and finfal 4 appearances etc.  Tough row to hoe.

But CAN he?  It is possible.

Quote from: RJax55 on September 02, 2010, 12:26:30 AM
Ners, I like the optimism... But let's be real. We all know what Al accomplished... I honestly what to know, what makes you think that Buzz even has a shot to match him.

I believe Buzz is cut of a similar cloth as Al - quirky, underdog fighter mentality, charismatic, and has an unbelieveable ability to relate to and reach people.  I believe this enables Buzz to be a great recruiter, so I anticipate continued strong recruiting classes and talent at MU.  I feel last season showed us that Buzz can squeeze every ounce of talent out of his players and team - so see the coaching chops being there as well.

I genuinely believe that within 10 years, Buzz will deliver us 2 Final Fours one of which translates into a National Championship, and a program that is consistently ranked in the Top 10.  If Buzz can land us 2 Top 100 kids this class out of our 3 scholarship slots - I think that will be some additional evidence that he is the real deal..and that the talent acquisition phase of the program is such that we won't ever NOT compete due to talent disparity.

FAR too early for this discussion.  In the meantime, lets enjoy the Buzz era.

McGuire was and will always be the man at MU. No way Williams ever matches Al's W-L record, and remember, when Al got here it took him several years to build, while Williams inherited a good team.

Al had two Final Fours and an NIT championship, when that tourney was still prestigious.

He made MU and will always be remembered for that.

Quote from: Ners on September 02, 2010, 09:39:32 AM
I genuinely believe that within 10 years, Buzz will deliver us 2 Final Fours one of which translates into a National Championship, and a program that is consistently ranked in the Top 10. 

Now THAT is some optimism.

I hope you are right.

Quote from: willie warrior on September 02, 2010, 09:45:38 AM
McGuire was and will always be the man at MU. No way Williams ever matches Al's W-L record, and remember, when Al got here it took him several years to build, while Williams inherited a good team.

Al had two Final Fours and an NIT championship, when that tourney was still prestigious.

He made MU and will always be remembered for that.

The landscape of college basketball was a lot different in the 1970s than in 2010.  Regarding W-L record, playing in the Big East as MU does currently, certainly translates into a far greater degree of schedule difficulty, than MU faced in Al's time as an Independant.  That said it has to be easier to recruit to a Big East school, than it was for Al as MU being an Independant.

I certainly don't dispute that Al made MU Basketball one of the signature programs in the country during his years, and that his legacy is like no other in the sport.  I'm hopeful Buzz can rival his on court accomplishments.

Our optimism for Buzz is on some level based on an ability to put together back to back highly ranked recruiting classes and find two relative diamonds in the rough in DJO and The Butler.  The MUScoop portion of the Marquette fanbase have been starved for this type of consistency after Crean could not deliver it. 

But, this is all potential.  Buzz met expectations in year one and an injury kept him from moving forward.  Buzz overachieved in year 2, still had a first round loss.  His resume is not Al's yet by a longshot.  We don't even know how these 4 and 5 star recruits will even turn out yet.

Al and Buzz seem to have a life philosopher type of personality, but that is all you can say so far.  Buzz has a chance, but getting recruits cannot be the basis for putting him up with Al. 

Quote from: Ners on September 02, 2010, 10:03:29 AM
The landscape of college basketball was a lot different in the 1970s than in 2010.  Regarding W-L record, playing in the Big East as MU does currently, certainly translates into a far greater degree of schedule difficulty, than MU faced in Al's time as an Independant.  That said it has to be easier to recruit to a Big East school, than it was for Al as MU being an Independant.

I certainly don't dispute that Al made MU Basketball one of the signature programs in the country during his years, and that his legacy is like no other in the sport.  I'm hopeful Buzz can rival his on court accomplishments.

I'm very hopeful as well.  But, lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

Quote from: Ners on September 02, 2010, 09:39:32 AM
I genuinely believe that within 10 years, Buzz will deliver us 2 Final Fours one of which translates into a National Championship, and a program that is consistently ranked in the Top 10.  If Buzz can land us 2 Top 100 kids this class out of our 3 scholarship slots - I think that will be some additional evidence that he is the real deal..and that the talent acquisition phase of the program is such that we won't ever NOT compete due to talent disparity.

Then the next question would be...if he has such success would he stay at MU long term like Al did?

Quote from: Ners on September 02, 2010, 10:03:29 AM
The landscape of college basketball was a lot different in the 1970s than in 2010.  Regarding W-L record, playing in the Big East as MU does currently, certainly translates into a far greater degree of schedule difficulty, than MU faced in Al's time as an Independant.  That said it has to be easier to recruit to a Big East school, than it was for Al as MU being an Independant.

I certainly don't dispute that Al made MU Basketball one of the signature programs in the country during his years, and that his legacy is like no other in the sport.  I'm hopeful Buzz can rival his on court accomplishments.

Al had New York and Chicago in his hip pocket.  Not sure that it is accurate to say that recruiting was more difficult for Al.

Quote from: dgies9156 on September 02, 2010, 06:00:15 AM
If getting two technicals in an NCAA championship game and tournament collapses against Ohio State, Indiana (twice), Purdue and Kentucky (once) are benchmarks, then I hope not. If an NCAA Championship is a benchmark, I hope so.

What we forget is that Al had his warts too. He continually angered the NCAA and it took a long time before we made the Final Four (1974). In face, we only made the "Big" Dance under Al twice. Arguably, if the tournament was bracketed the way it is today we would have made it at least one other time (1976) and perhaps twice (1969). But the fact was that in the NCAA tournament, which really mattered for us at the time since we were not part of a conference, we were very mediocre until the waning days of Al's career.

All that said, may I make a suggestion to everyone out there who reads this. Let's move on! I've been a Warrior fan since the late 1960s and I loved Al. He was wonderful to experience and his legacy is everywhere at MU. But we need to respect Buzz and let him do his thing (which, arguably, has been excellent so far). We're over-Al-ed at MU. And under Buzzed! A little thing to consider -- since we have the Al McGuire Court and the Al McGuire Center, let's take the "Al" off the uniforms.

Let's love the past but our focus needs to be on the future.. not something that happened more than 30 years ago.

Do not take the AL off the uniforms ever.

I think there should be a poll to think how many people even think he will be here 10-15 years.  Considering the last coach to do it as a head coach was.....Al McGuire....over 30 years ago.  Yeah, I know he said he'll stay as long as the university will have him.  That's coach speak.

Quote from: Ners on September 01, 2010, 11:29:26 PM
In the wake of the D-Wade poll - thought this might be an interesting question.  As many know..I'm a Buzz fanboy..that said..sincerely, my answer is yes. 

Go easy on the pabst blue ribbon's!

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 02, 2010, 12:52:52 PM
I think there should be a poll to think how many people even think he will be here 10-15 years.  Considering the last coach to do it as a head coach was.....Al McGuire....over 30 years ago.  Yeah, I know he said he'll stay as long as the university will have him.  That's coach speak.

good point, it is coach speak. In fact, I will bet the Milwaukee winters may wear down the Texan.

Quote from: 79Warrior on September 02, 2010, 02:06:53 PM
good point, it is coach speak. In fact, I will bet the Milwaukee winters may wear down the Texan.

Only fear I have of Buzz leaving is when the University of Texas  or Texas A&M jobs open..Rick Barnes is 56...don't see him quitting before 65..so hopefully this insulates us for 9 years.  Turgeon is going strong at A&M and is only 45.  I don't see Buzz leaving to go to an SEC/ACC school for weather reasons.  So long as he is able to continue to attract strong recruits to MKE..and MU stays in a BCS conference..I think we are safe.

Let's worry about Buzz taking us past the first weekend of the tournament before we start comparing him to Al. 

I think of this thread in the same way as the DWade vs. Al thread...

There is no way Buzz could equal Al, because Al built Marquette.  Even if Buzz matched his accomplishments, he wouldn't be thought of as Al.  He'd be the Roy Williams to Dean Smith.

Actually, Buzz is Al, reincarnated.

Seriously.

Don't beleive me?  Go here, and look at the picture. 
http://statsheet.com/mcb/coaches/al-mcguire

The internet doesn't lie.  It only misleads.

haha, touche

Quote from: hdog1017 on September 02, 2010, 02:46:01 PM
Let's worry about Buzz taking us past the first weekend of the tournament before we start comparing him to Al. 

Gotta agree. Buzz has a lot of promise. Al put a lot of bombs on target. Big difference.