http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2010/08/17/houston_dobo_michael_young_and_keno_davis_wont_be_having_dinner_anytime_soon
HOUSTON DOBO MICHAEL YOUNG AND KENO DAVIS WON'T BE HAVING DINNER ANYTIME SOON
Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 05:08 PM EST [General]
It looks like Joseph Young won't be playing college basketball anywhere this season.
The former Yates High (Texas) standout, who signed with Providence, had his appeal denied in an attempt to have his National Letter of Intent revoked with the school.
Young's appeal was based on the fact that he wanted to be closer to his aunt – who is gravely ill and in need of a heart transplant.
Young's father is a former player and also the director of basketball operations at the University of Houston – and it was speculated that his son would join him with the Cougars.
``I'm really disappointed and so is Joseph," Michael Young said to FOX 26 Sports. ``The NLI system is crap."
Young said his son will sit out the year.
``There's no chance in hell that Joseph would ever go to Providence," Young said. ``Joseph is going to sit out a year."
The elder Young also took a shot at Providence coach Keno Davis.
``He's a bad guy," Young said. ``Anytime you deny a kid from something he has worked so hard for all these years and kids are emotional about situations like this."
I'm not sure you'd find another person in this business that would call Davis a bad guy.
``Keno Davis and Providence had no sympathy for this situation. Keno said he doesn't care who is ill."
This situation is a complete joke. This kid commits and signs and then daddy gets angry and wants him to come to Houston. I understand a family member is sick, but it is his aunt. It is very obvious from the older young's comments (no pun intended) that he wanted his son to play for Houston. Young was a very good recruit and it is unfortunate that he won't be playing, but how could he sign and then expect to be released for that reason? Keno Davis is a good person and is trying to build up a program that has been very weak in recent years. The negative publicity this article gives him is very unfair
I can already tell this will be a fun thread.
The NCAA needs to insert a buyout clause in the NLI. That would make these situations kosher.
Quote from: jhags15 on August 18, 2010, 01:15:45 AM
This situation is a complete joke. This kid commits and signs and then daddy gets angry and wants him to come to Houston. I understand a family member is sick, but it is his aunt. It is very obvious from the older young's comments (no pun intended) that he wanted his son to play for Houston. Young was a very good recruit and it is unfortunate that he won't be playing, but how could he sign and then expect to be released for that reason? Keno Davis is a good person and is trying to build up a program that has been very weak in recent years. The negative publicity this article gives him is very unfair
Right and that's why they should release the guy just like MU did with Tyshawn Taylor.
It is not that long ago that they started releasing players when coaches left or family members got sick. Also allowing 5th year players to transfer to another school, if their school did not have the post graduate degree a player wanted. While it sounds nice to let these things happen, what it does is water the NLI commitment down. Both players and coaches do not see it as a 100% commitment anymore. The cat has been let out of the bag and it will be hard to get it back in.
It's nice to take a principled stand, but this is the result....the coach and the school get dragged through the mud, the player declares that they will never play there, and just sits out a year.
So in return for standing up to their principles, PC and Davis will be painted as evil and uncaring, will never get the benefits of having Young play for them anyway, and this will be used as a negative recruiting measure for a long time.
It is in PC's best interests simply to let him go.
Amusing. Nothing quite like Providence playing hardball with the 29th best SG in the class of '10.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on August 18, 2010, 08:52:31 AM
Amusing. Nothing quite like Providence playing hardball with the 29th best SG in the class of '10.
It will help recruiting next year.
This topic is old news
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20656.0
Young didn't want to play for Houston--even though his father is Director of Operations there--because he didn't want to play for Tom Penders. Penders retired at the end of last season, and Young subsequently had a change of heart.
This is just another example of how both sides are taking the NLI too lightly.
Here's how I would change the rules:
1. Once a school signs a recruit, they can't re-fill his scholarship that year as long as he meets minimum NCAA requirements--even if the player requests a release and it is granted. That would prevent the situation with Newbill.
2. If a program oversigns, they may not use one of the players under NLI to meet the limits--even if the incoming player doesn't qualify. This would prevent situations similar to Saunders.
3. In the event of a coaching change, the player must still play for one year under the new coach. After giving the new coach one season, he receives a one-time exemption from the one-year transfer rule and would be immediately eligible at a new school. For example, in 2008 Tyshawn Taylor would have been required to play for MU for the 2008-09 season. If he really couldn't stand playing for the new coach, he could transfer and be eligible to play for the 2009-10 season without sitting out a year.
4. If a program receives NCAA sanctions for a violation, all incoming recruits under an NLI have the option of going elsewhere--the school however, would still be bound by their end, and if they lose recruits under this rule, they cannot refill those scholarships. (This rule would have the added benefit of forcing schools to think twice about cheating--they may well lose their entire recruiting class and not be able to replace them for a full season).
5. No hardship releases from the NLI. If a player no longer wants to play for the team for any reason--sick aunt, father got a job, new coach, player changed his mind, assistant coach left, whatever--he must sit out one year and lose one year of eligibility. No waivers. No sob stories. When you sign you know what the penalty is.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 18, 2010, 08:36:30 AM
It's nice to take a principled stand, but this is the result....the coach and the school get dragged through the mud, the player declares that they will never play there, and just sits out a year.
So in return for standing up to their principles, PC and Davis will be painted as evil and uncaring, will never get the benefits of having Young play for them anyway, and this will be used as a negative recruiting measure for a long time.
It is in PC's best interests simply to let him go.
+1
In a situation like this, it's generally best to just let the kid go. It might not be easy out of principle but Young wasn't going to be happy at PC after this, so why make matters worse?
PC always could have put in a stipulation that he couldn't attend any BE school or Houston (if they truly thought his father had ulterior motives). Rice and Texas Southern are both in Houston, not to mention that Austin, San Antonio, Waco, Shreveport, New Orleans, etc are all relatively close to Houston (especially compared to Providence).
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on August 18, 2010, 09:10:58 AM
PC always could have put in a stipulation that he couldn't attend any BE school or Houston (if they truly thought his father had ulterior motives). Rice and Texas Southern are both in Houston, not to mention that Austin, San Antonio, Waco, Shreveport, New Orleans, etc are all relatively close to Houston (especially compared to Providence).
No, they couldn't.
Unlike with transfers, releases from the LOI are complete. The school giving the release can not at any time place any restrictions on where the player can go. You are either release to any school, or you aren't released at all.
Furthermore, why would PC care if Young want to go to Houston? Everyone knows the real motives. It's not like they'll ever face one another unless it is in the post-season sometime.
The other thing is that father Young has to be careful here. If I were Jim Dickey, the head coach down there, I wouldn't be real exited about one of my assistants calling a well-respected guy like Keno Davis a "bad man." You never know when that stuff can come back to haunt you.
Quote from: bma725 on August 18, 2010, 09:12:17 AM
No, they couldn't.
Unlike with transfers, releases from the LOI are complete. The school giving the release can not at any time place any restrictions on where the player can go. You are either release to any school, or you aren't released at all.
I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification, bma.
How about having kids opt out of signing a NLI, since they're optional anyways. If you don't have to submit to a contract, then why do it?
I wonder if the Tyshawn Taylor situation tainted Buzz's view of NLI's? NLI's are suspose to end the recruitment of signed player by another school. Kansas started indirectly recruiting Taylor when Crean left. Taylor had his mind made up, before Buzz even had a chance to sit down with him. I think players should be released if they want to, but they have to sit out a year no matter what. The release would allow them to get a scholarship. Oversigning should be prohibited. Maybe they should move the signing date to June 30th and get rid of the fall signing period.
Quote from: CAINMUTINY on August 18, 2010, 09:18:47 AM
How about having kids opt out of signing a NLI, since they're optional anyways. If you don't have to submit to a contract, then why do it?
I was going to say this.
I didn't really disagree with any of MU84's points, they sounded like good ideas. But if I was helping a kid being recruited, I would tell him to NOT sign a NLI under any circumstances. They aren't required and they are too one-sided against the kid.
Quote from: TJ on August 18, 2010, 11:16:58 AM
I was going to say this.
I didn't really disagree with any of MU84's points, they sounded like good ideas. But if I was helping a kid being recruited, I would tell him to NOT sign a NLI under any circumstances. They aren't required and they are too one-sided against the kid.
Maybe if you are a star player yeah, but if you are a middle of the road type prospect, my guess is that you want to wrap up your full-ride in writing.
I'm fine with oversigning, I'm fine with player's asking for releases and getting them for no real good reason. I'm fine with having a early signing period so you can stop coachs from recruiting committed players. I agree it can still be done but its much harder. Its not a perfect system, but I think its better than football.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 18, 2010, 11:19:11 AM
Maybe if you are a star player yeah, but if you are a middle of the road type prospect, my guess is that you want to wrap up your full-ride in writing.
I guess the situations where it doesn't work out that way are few and far between, so you may be right. Better make absolutely sure taht this is where you want to be though.
If you can, do what Brandon Knight did:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/04/29/knight/index.html
Quote from: TJ on August 18, 2010, 11:16:58 AM
I was going to say this.
I didn't really disagree with any of MU84's points, they sounded like good ideas. But if I was helping a kid being recruited, I would tell him to NOT sign a NLI under any circumstances. They aren't required and they are too one-sided against the kid.
It's all about leverage. A top 10 kid could just show up in August and schools would somehow find a scholarship. If a kid ranked #500 tried it his options would be extremely limited if not non existant.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on August 18, 2010, 12:08:35 PM
It's all about leverage. A top 10 kid could just show up in August and schools would somehow find a scholarship. If a kid ranked #500 tried it his options would be extremely limited if not non existant.
I didn't say don't commit, I said don't sign. True, that might not fly with some coaches, but for some there might be some leverage there to go with strong verbal and not sign a NLI.
Quote from: TJ on August 18, 2010, 01:19:29 PM
I didn't say don't commit, I said don't sign. True, that might not fly with some coaches, but for some there might be some leverage there to go with strong verbal and not sign a NLI.
Again, a school probably wouldn't actively "recruit over" a strong verbal from a 5 star but for everyone else it would be the Wild West. Schools could have two or three Newbill/T Taylor situations per year.per year.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on August 18, 2010, 01:44:42 PM
Again, a school probably wouldn't actively "recruit over" a strong verbal from a 5 star but for everyone else it would be the Wild West. Schools could have two or three Newbill/T Taylor situations per year.per year.
Good point.
I was anticipating this topic would be about a Lifetime channel movie.