MUScoop

Missouri:  Game tied and we foul and send tiller to the line.  He's injured so english comes in and makes them both for a 2 point lead. then lazar turnover from stepping on the line.  the rest is history....

Washington:  gave up big lead in second half and didn't make a field goal the last 4:33 of play.  Nerves go the better of DJO when he couldn't handle a pass that went out of bounds, and lack of D fense and post presense to stop a drive for the win.

This is a pretty silly question.

Against Mizzou, we came back from way back to even make it a game.  Against UW, it was clear that their style was going to give us fits no matter how many times we played the game.

Neither was a choke.

We overperformed last year, and a team that many people wrote off made it to the tourney as a 5th seed. Against Mizzou we had a great team. Dominic maybe should have sat that one out, but I think that with the team we had that year Mizzou was a bigger choke

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 11:38:07 AM
Missouri:  Game tied and we foul and send tiller to the line.  He's injured so english comes in and makes them both for a 2 point lead. then lazar turnover from stepping on the line.  the rest is history....

Washington:  gave up big lead in second half and didn't make a field goal the last 4:33 of play.  Nerves go the better of DJO when he couldn't handle a pass that went out of bounds, and lack of D fense and post presense to stop a drive for the win.

Question been brewing for the past 7 months...and you woke up today and was like "yeah, today is the day.  Friday the 13th of August is the day.  I'm going for it.

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 11:38:07 AM
Missouri:  Game tied and we foul and send tiller to the line.  He's injured  so english comes in and makes them both for a 2 point lead. then lazar turnover from stepping on the line.  the rest is history....

FYP

If any game was to be labeled a "choke" it would have to be the Washington game.  Simply due to the fact that we led by double digits in the second half.  personally i dont think either game was a choke though...both games were against more talented and more importantly deeper teams.  the source of that problem now resides in Bloomington.

  Going forward, if and when we choke it can truly be labeled a choke versus a team the last two years that was fighting and clawing against a deeper more talented and  taller team.

Players may not have stepped up when called upon, but your (bigdawgdude) statement in the other thread was:

"mustache bro, are you saying that buzz is a good coach if he doesn't get big guys?  A good coach needs to make a team, and not a bunch of summer league "ballers" that choke under pressure.  MU has had final four guard play, but a team is built from the ground up not guards all the way to more guards.  Buzz hasn't given his players an ounce of confidence.  Example: every NCAA tourney choke he has coached in."

So who is doing the choking in your scenarios?  Buzz?  The players?  Both?

Quote from: reinko on August 13, 2010, 12:30:00 PM
Question been brewing for the past 7 months...and you woke up today and was like "yeah, today is the day.  Friday the 13th of August is the day.  I'm going for it.

+1

Buzz's lack of preparation for big moments and attitude that winning one game in big east play is like winning the super bowl.  example: Louisville

5'8 (maybe), 6'0 (maybe)  6'2, 6'2, 6'6 (maybe) 6'6, 6'7 (maybe).    There are many high schools in the country that have rotations taller and deeper than that.    You hate blowing big leads, but sometimes a lack of bench causes a team to hit a wall.   It happened early in the year against FSU, it happened in the BEast tourney against G-town.     Short with no bench leaves no room for error.   Buzz' teams play with an abundance of confidence.    The prior year, the team was a broken bone in DJ's foot from being able to make a E8 run.   
     Finally, the tourney is a crapshoot.   Buzz has been a D1 coach for 3 years.    I really hate to borrow from Chico, but why don't we give the guy a few more years to learn/grow/develop his own game before we say his teams choke.      Troll.   

Amen, Tower

butler got burned 1 on 1 with pondexter.  a guy who is 6' 6"....no difference in height, just no help D or even mindset to stop him.  DJ never got better as a player from the day he walked into marquette, and a team that does that 2 years in a row is no fluke.

PS about the Troll thing....Winners don't make excuses they just do it bro

For some reason the Mizzou game still gives me nightmares, maybe it's because I live in KC and know many Tiger fans.  However, we did get them on our Final 4 run, so I guess we're even, maybe....

I really thought Washington played well in the second half.  We could not seem to match their intensity.  I'm giving all the credit to Washington for having a great second half as opposed to a MU choke.

Quote from: tower912 on August 13, 2010, 01:39:24 PM
The prior year, the team was a broken bone in DJ's foot from being able to make a E8 run.   
 

Not disagreeing with you here but Ners would argue that it is purely the coach's responsibility to prepare/develop the backup talent to virtually pick up where the injured player left off. Personally, I think Ners is a complete moron...but that's just my opinion. He blamed Syracuse's Sweet 16 loss to the fact that Boeheim didnt develop their backup center to replace the production of Onuaku who was hurt right before the start of the NCAA tournament. Just stupid logic ::)

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 01:45:32 PM
butler got burned 1 on 1 with pondexter.  a guy who is 6' 6"....no difference in height, just no help D or even mindset to stop him.  DJ never got better as a player from the day he walked into marquette, and a team that does that 2 years in a row is no fluke.

PS about the Troll thing....Winners don't make excuses they just do it bro

Most players have trouble guarding someone their own size when the offensive player is going hard to the hole.   That is when the big guy coming over to play help defense is so important.    Butler was our big guy.   Last year's team got the max it could have out of its talent.   Failed to make a couple of big stops at important times, though.   It sucks, but only one team ends the year happy.    Trolls just go around throwing chum on the water because they fear life outside their parents basement.

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 01:45:32 PM
butler got burned 1 on 1 with pondexter.  a guy who is 6' 6"....no difference in height, just no help D or even mindset to stop him.  DJ never got better as a player from the day he walked into marquette, and a team that does that 2 years in a row is no fluke.

PS about the Troll thing....Winners don't make excuses they just do it bro

You still haven't answered my question, bro.

Who choked in the Mizzou and Washington games?

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 01:45:32 PM
butler got burned 1 on 1 with pondexter.  a guy who is 6' 6"....no difference in height, just no help D or even mindset to stop him.  DJ never got better as a player from the day he walked into marquette, and a team that does that 2 years in a row is no fluke.

PS about the Troll thing....Winners don't make excuses they just do it bro

Pondexter may be 6'6" but he was also a 1st round pick this year...

And Butler didn't have the mindset to stop him?  Please articulate that some more, I'm curious how you arrived at that opinion.

what about the help D.  Pondexter took it full court, it wasn't just a 1 on 1 situation, someone should have stopped ball, at least if buzz had taught them to in a situation like this.  They played it safe because they exceeded buzz's expectations.  They see a guy who gets pumped and dances like a degenerate when they beat Louisville by more than 10.  act like you've won a game before buzz, come on.  then in the big east tourney they gave up, because once again they exceeded buzz's expectations.  He and every other MU fan was happy with the win vs villanova.

don't say they were tired either.  a 40 minute game a day giving it your all when you play college ball should be nothing.  they get a break after every couple of minutes

lancesfavoritenutsucker:  in case you haven't been paying attention, I have stated buzz choked by not preparing a team for it all.  He prepared them to exceed expectations, not to win a national championship.

I'll admit it. Pondexter broke JB's ankles out there. Or he fell down, whatever. It was not a pretty sight. I say UW. The Mizzou game was more just we got screwed/unlucky.

then why do teams sub at all?  

giving your all and not being tired are two completely different things...the guy crawling across the finish line of a triathalon is giving his all yet is tired.  

based on your few comments my guess is you are a drunk FFP'er who never played the game before.

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 02:21:29 PM
lancesfavoritenutsucker:  in case you haven't been paying attention, I have stated buzz choked by not preparing a team for it all.  He prepared them to exceed expectations, not to win a national championship.

Buzz sounds like that idiot Brad stevens down at Butler seeing how Stevens apparently made the same mistakes.


Boy are those two stupid!

don't say they were tired either.  a 40 minute game a day giving it your all when you play college ball should be nothing.  they get a break after every couple of minutes

notice how i said a 40 minute game giving it your all.  it means we had a small bench and the players needed to give more of themselves out there to make up for it.

What other reason would a college basketball player be tired in a game besides giving their all on D and O?

based on your few comments my guess is you are a drunk FFP'er who never played the game before.

Good argument.....where did Buzz play again?

So the players gave their all, but they should have given more?

You're a douche-canoe, I figured I'd come down to your level.  Maybe then I'll be able to comprehend the crap you're spraying all over this thread.

I blame Mbakwe for the new MU Scoop message board presence known as bigdawgdude. Only Mbakwe could be behind such asinine comments.

EDITED to correct spelling errors and grammatical mis-steps attributable to Mbakwe.

bigdawgdude - What are your thoughts on the Newbill situation?

wow...

I guess this board is for excuse makers.  It seems like everything someone posts bad or indifferent about Marquette is just hated on.  Do you not accept the fact that Marquette has not done S*** the last couple seasons?  Do you not see they are weak and sloppy with leads and when it matters most?  maybe you all are too busy making excuses and using defense mechanisms to realize that Marquette basketball is not OK under Buzz.  We will have good recruits but will choke and choke again.  that's how it works with a coach that gets WAY too excited when they are winning......you end up loosing the lead

So NateDogg makes his triumphant message board return...

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 02:52:16 PM
wow...

I guess this board is for excuse makers.  It seems like everything someone posts bad or indifferent about Marquette is just hated on.  Do you not accept the fact that Marquette has not done S*** the last couple seasons?  Do you not see they are weak and sloppy with leads and when it matters most?  maybe you all are too busy making excuses and using defense mechanisms to realize that Marquette basketball is not OK under Buzz.  We will have good recruits but will choke and choke again.  that's how it works with a coach that gets WAY too excited when they are winning......you end up loosing the lead

So, when did MU "loose" the lead in that Louisville game you like to reference?

newbill is a total

oh s*** why did we give average joe Newbill a schollie.....we are going to get it on this one

its a metaphor for his coaching and seasons.  I meant season not lead my apologies

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 02:52:16 PM
wow...

I guess this board is for excuse makers.  It seems like everything someone posts bad or indifferent about Marquette is just hated on.  Do you not accept the fact that Marquette has not done S*** the last couple seasons?  Do you not see they are weak and sloppy with leads and when it matters most?  maybe you all are too busy making excuses and using defense mechanisms to realize that Marquette basketball is not OK under Buzz.  We will have good recruits but will choke and choke again.  that's how it works with a coach that gets WAY too excited when they are winning......you end up loosing the lead

This totally because that ass wipe Crean left Buzz with abate cupboard.

Like how buzz wet himself over the defeat of Louisville then MU got owned at the end of ND game,  it all has to do with keeping your mojo in a steady spot and not over or under doing it.

Ask Phil Jacksons incents he burns in the lakers locker room.....hes the zen master

To me the Stanford game was the toughest defeat as I believe that was our best opportunity to advance far(everyone healthy) in the tourney and we had the #2 seed down literally to the final second in their backyard.

This totally because that ass wipe Crean left Buzz with abate cupboard.

yeah leaving him with dj, jerel, wes, and lazar and a top 15 recruiting class would be really hard to deal with wouldn't it.......thats final four talent, no bull about it

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 02:52:16 PM
wow...

I guess this board is for excuse makers.  It seems like everything someone posts bad or indifferent about Marquette is just hated on.  Do you not accept the fact that Marquette has not done S*** the last couple seasons?  Do you not see they are weak and sloppy with leads and when it matters most?  maybe you all are too busy making excuses and using defense mechanisms to realize that Marquette basketball is not OK under Buzz.  We will have good recruits but will choke and choke again.  that's how it works with a coach that gets WAY too excited when they are winning......you end up loosing the lead

Says the guy calling me a "nutsucker"

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 03:04:06 PM
This totally because that ass wipe Crean left Buzz with abate cupboard.

yeah leaving him with dj, jerel, wes, and lazar and a top 15 recruiting class would be really hard to deal with wouldn't it.......thats final four talent, no bull about it

Yep, hard to win with talent.that averages 6'2". FF tplayers, hardly.

started last season with 6' 10" co 6' 7" ewill 6' 7" fulce 6'7" butler 6'6" maymon 6'6" lazar and guards....i don't understand how buzz was left without height.

what Buzz did with those players was make it butler and lazar and barley fulce.

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 03:15:28 PM
started last season with 6' 10" co 6' 7" ewill 6' 7" fulce 6'7" butler 6'6" maymon 6'6" lazar and guards....i don't understand how buzz was left without height.

what Buzz did with those players was make it butler and lazar and barley fulce.

So now it's Buzz' fault that CO got hurt and Fulce (still getting up to speed due to a previous injury) and Williams couldn't properly adjust on defense.  You know, the Erik Williams, that in HS, played a roving shot-blocker.

Just stop.  Your credibility can't go much lower.

EDIT:  You throw in Maymon and E. Williams but your original assertion was regarding McNeal, Matthews, and James' senior year they were FF talent...you're all over the place.

well wes dj and jerels team didn't average 6'2" so......

you don't think it's the coaches fault when multiple players get injured in practice?

Quote from: LancesOtherNut on August 13, 2010, 03:19:21 PM
So now it's Buzz' fault that CO got hurt and Fulce (still getting up to speed due to a previous injury) and Williams couldn't properly adjust on defense.  You know, the Erik Williams, that in HS, played a roving shot-blocker.

Just stop.  Your credibility can't go much lower.

I wouldn't try to argue. The ESPN messageboards have already spoken about Buzz.

Quote from: Canadian Dimes on August 13, 2010, 02:25:48 PM
then why do teams sub at all?  

giving your all and not being tired are two completely different things...the guy crawling across the finish line of a triathalon is giving his all yet is tired.  

based on your few comments my guess is you are a drunk FFP'er who never played the game before.

When I find myself reading a Canadian Dimes response to a poster, and nodding my head in complete agreement, I know it is time to put said poster on ignore.

Welcome back NateDogg.  Your incoherence and lack of logic were not missed.

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 02:52:16 PM
wow...

I guess this board is for excuse makers.  It seems like everything someone posts bad or indifferent about Marquette is just hated on.  Do you not accept the fact that Marquette has not done S*** the last couple seasons?  Do you not see they are weak and sloppy with leads and when it matters most?  maybe you all are too busy making excuses and using defense mechanisms to realize that Marquette basketball is not OK under Buzz.  We will have good recruits but will choke and choke again.  that's how it works with a coach that gets WAY too excited when they are winning......you end up loosing the lead

I hate it when we loose the lead.

Another Newbil post and Im goin to loose it.

Quote from: MUfan12 on August 13, 2010, 04:20:09 PM
Another Newbil post and Im goin to loose it.

You people need to losen up.

As a fully decorated grammar nazi this thread is gonna make me loose my mind :(

You guys need to relax and burn some incents

I'm laughing at this whole page.  Don't stop now - any of you.  (I must be punchy from watching the golf pros flailing away on that horsepucky piece of wasteland they call "Whistling Straits."  No straits, no whistling.  Pete Dye sure conned gazillionaire Kohler into building that piece of "Disneyland North." didn't he?"

Quote from: Jay Bee on August 13, 2010, 04:48:27 PM
You guys need to relax and burn some incents

Haha.  Incents is the best part of this thread.

Work that inner chi.  ::)

Quote from: bigdawgdude on August 13, 2010, 02:52:16 PM
wow...

I guess this board is for excuse makers.  It seems like everything someone posts bad or indifferent about Marquette is just hated on.  Do you not accept the fact that Marquette has not done S*** the last couple seasons?  Do you not see they are weak and sloppy with leads and when it matters most?  maybe you all are too busy making excuses and using defense mechanisms to realize that Marquette basketball is not OK under Buzz.  We will have good recruits but will choke and choke again.  that's how it works with a coach that gets WAY too excited when they are winning......you end up loosing the lead

I'm not an excuse maker, but you have to come with more than silly cliches like "Buzz prepares his team to exceed expectations but not to win championships."  I mean, WTF does that even mean?  "Did we choke more against Mizzou or UW?"  I mean, can you even *define* what you mean by choke?  The two were completely different games played by vastly different MU teams against different opponents.  I guess since we lost, that means we choked in your book.

Do many people share concerns with Buzz?  Yeah...he's not exactly a proven coach.  But by and large I am satisfied with what I hae seen.  He recruits well and gets his guys to play hard.  He's not the best tactician in the world, but he's not been playing with a full deck as yet.  But please don't come around here talking a bunch of crappy cliches and  act like we are basketball novices

MU should have beaten Washington.  We had a huge lead in the second half and let it go.  Missouri, we weren't supposed to beat them, trailed huge, came back but I wouldn't say that was a choke.

Not sure I would call the Washington game a choke, but a game we should have won.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 13, 2010, 11:00:08 PM
MU should have beaten Washington.  We Marquette had a huge lead in the second half and let it go.  Missouri, we Marquette weren't  wasn't supposed to beat them, trailed huge, came back but I wouldn't say that was a choke.

Not sure I would call the Washington game a choke, but a game we Marquette should have won.

Jay Bee,

My apologies for using the term "we" when referencing my alma mater. 

This will probably not be a popular statement here, but it was Hayward who choked in both games. Against Missouri Hayward has a great offensive rebound and basket to tie it up.  But then he went from hero to goat by stepping over the inbounds line. Against Washington with less than a minute to go Hayward takes a quick three that was not even a good three.

JayBoy is the LAST person that can call someone out for the use of "we"...

And the point of this thread is what again?

Thank God it's only 60 days until Marquette Madness.

Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on August 15, 2010, 09:06:29 PM
And the point of this thread is what again?

Eye think sum people where talking about witch game was a bigger choke for Market... misery or you double you.

Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on August 15, 2010, 09:06:29 PM
Thank God it's only 60 days until Marquette Madness.

who cars about madness what about the scrimage against virginia? if they choke and loose it could hurt seeding in march.