does anybody want to start speculating again about who will get the most minutes at each position, again. I didn't attend any of the pro-am games but I read others' analyses about the progress of various players. Here is my take:
PG: JC
SG: DJO
SF: JB
PF: JF (could be Jae Crowder but no one has watched him play yet)
C: CO
Rest of Rotation: DB, VB, EW, RS, JJ in descending number of minutes.
DG will get limited minutes until he can get in better condition and play defense.
Forget about Fulce as a starter--only way that happens is because Buzz wants to reward a senior. My bet is on Crowder. Crowder will garner more minutes than Fulce either way.
I suspect Gardner will get more minutes in the post than many others are speculating.
Was Ch 32 at the games on Sunday night? Would love to catch those on a replay.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 10, 2010, 09:22:40 AM
I suspect Gardner will get more minutes in the post than many others are speculating.
He'll get spot minutes until he proves he's in good enough shape to do more.
Quote from: john_cocktoasten on August 10, 2010, 09:23:35 AM
Was Ch 32 at the games on Sunday night? Would love to catch those on a replay.
I didn't see any video cameras around.
PG - Junior
2G - Buycks
3 - DJO..though non-traditional as a 3
4 - Jimmy
5 - Otule
Depending on match ups..I can very easily see Fulce or Crowder starting in place of O'Tule - and us going with a similar offensive style to last year's team. As for bench minutes:
Fulce/Crowder (if neither starts will get most minutes off bench), followed by Reggie Smith, then Vander Blue, then Erik Williams. Jamail Jones and Gardner with very spotty minutes..
1 - Junior
2 - Buycks
2 - DJO
3 - Jimmy
5 - Otule
Subs: Blue, Smith, Jones, Crowder, Ewill, Gardner, Fulce
It's crazy to look at our roster and see so many guys that appear to deserving of minutes, good problem to have I guess.
I would guess Buzz probably doesn't even know how these minutes will be spread yet, but the rotation would probably be no more than 9 deep.
I suspect the rotation will go 12 deep during most of the NC season, dropping to 9 -10 during the BE season.
Anything over 9 worries me. Keep it a solid 8.5 man rotation...
Quote from: downtown85 on August 10, 2010, 08:49:38 AM
does anybody want to start speculating again about who will get the most minutes at each position, again. I didn't attend any of the pro-am games but I read others' analyses about the progress of various players. Here is my take:
PG: JC
SG: DJO
SF: JB
PF: JF (could be Jae Crowder but no one has watched him play yet)
C: CO
Rest of Rotation: DB, VB, EW, RS, JJ in descending number of minutes.
DG will get limited minutes until he can get in better condition and play defense.
I agree with you, But I could see the lineup with 3 guards including buycks as a real possibility as well.
Quote from: Nukem2 on August 10, 2010, 10:22:26 AM
I suspect the rotation will go 12 deep during most of the NC season, dropping to 9 -10 during the BE season.
Queue the "why is ______ in the dog house?" when we are rolling a 10-11 rotation in the NC season and 7-8 man rotation during the BEast.
Well, I think who the starters are isn't necessarily as important as what we might gain from this as far as an insight as to playing time overall. Here is how I break it down:
35+ Minutes: Jimmy, DJO
20-35 Minutes: Junior (although he may move up to 35+), Buycks, Otule, Crowder
10-20 Minutes: Fulce, Blue or Smith
0-10 Minutes: Williams, Jones, Gardner, Blue or Smith
I'm not sure how that works out numbers wise, but my overall point is that the people toward the top of the list are going to get the lion's share of the minutes over the course of the season as I think they stand now.
Of course, there is a lot of time between now and when the season starts...
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 10, 2010, 12:05:06 PM
Well, I think who the starters are isn't necessarily as important as what we might gain from this as far as an insight as to playing time overall. Here is how I break it down:
35+ Minutes: Jimmy, DJO
20-35 Minutes: Junior (although he may move up to 35+), Buycks, Otule, Crowder
10-20 Minutes: Fulce, Blue or Smith
0-10 Minutes: Williams, Jones, Gardner, Blue or Smith
I like your breakdown Sultan. And, I agree with you, DJO and Butler will average the most minutes. My guess is somewhere between 32-35 a game.
Its pretty obvious that minutes will be available for Otule. Can he keep himself on the court? Although his game and body look to be much improved, he has really no college playing experience. I have a feeling that he will be in foul trouble for many games, especially early in the season.
I think the surprise in terms of minutes will be Fulce. I think he plays well and earns somewhere between 20-25 a game.
Yeah I hear what you are saying about Otule. Really what he need to do is focus on defense and the minutes will be there for him. Hayward did a admirable job guarding bigs last year, but I don't think Jimmy or Jae can fill that role. We really need Otule to step up this year.
BTW, have we heard anything about his medical redshirt? Does he have three years remaining?
Quote from: willie warrior on August 10, 2010, 09:22:40 AM
Forget about Fulce as a starter--only way that happens is because Buzz wants to reward a senior. My bet is on Crowder. Crowder will garner more minutes than Fulce either way.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I think that Fulce sees a big jump in minutes this season and plays 20+ mpg.....contrary to what you believe above. Last year was Fulce's first complete season at the D1 level, and I think he was really coming on in late Feb and into March. In fact, I remember the game at Cincy last season where many thought Joe was the only reason we were in that game to begin with which allowed it to go to OT. Further, JuCos (any newcomer for that matter) rarely step right into the D1 level and produce. DJO is the exception, not the rule. Thus, while Crowder might be more talented than Fulce, I predict Fulce plays more mpg throughout the season.
I hope I'm wrong, and I may be, but the one game I saw O'Tule play in the Pro-Am I was less than impressed. He let much smaller guys push him off balance and his footwork was not very good. He also had very little flow, as it seemed like he would have to catch the ball, then take a couple dribbles, pick the ball up, and then put it up rather than having it all flow together. It was much too slow, especially considering he will be playing against much bigger guys in the BE than in the Pro-Am. He also missed multiple weakly-contested layups. Again I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see him playing much in the BE, and therefore I think Fulce, Crowder, and even Williams get more playing time.
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on August 10, 2010, 01:13:44 PM
I know I'm in the minority here, but I think that Fulce sees a big jump in minutes this season and plays 20+ mpg.....contrary to what you believe above. Last year was Fulce's first complete season at the D1 level, and I think he was really coming on in late Feb and into March. In fact, I remember the game at Cincy last season where many thought Joe was the only reason we were in that game to begin with which allowed it to go to OT. Further, JuCos (any newcomer for that matter) rarely step right into the D1 level and produce. DJO is the exception, not the rule. Thus, while Crowder might be more talented than Fulce, I predict Fulce plays more mpg throughout the season.
Buzz has integrated not only DJO, but Jimmy and Buycks into solid players early on. While you might be right that early on Fulce starts, I think he has limited upside and that Crowder gets more minutes later on.
Nice that we can have this debate, essentially plugging in nearly the whole roster into the starting lineup. :o
I haven't seen any ProAm games, but from what I've read (and saw last season) the only guys that don't have a chance to start may be: Frozena, Gardner. And Singleton and Wilson of course.
Jones/Blue/Smith will all develop this year and possibly work their way into the starting rotation by the end of the year. E-Will will continue to develop and is capable of making the jump as well. I wouldn't rule any of them out.
Quote from: Nukem2 on August 10, 2010, 10:22:26 AM
I suspect the rotation will go 12 deep during most of the NC season, dropping to 9 -10 during the BE season.
When it comes down to it Buzz will only go 8-9 in a close game.
Otule will be given a chance to start, because of his size. If he fairs well against Duke and UW, he will keep his job for the year. Butler, DJO and Cadougan are solid starters. At the beginning Fulce will start. Either Fulce or Otule will lose their starting job to Crowder by the start of the Big East season.
Quote from: bilsu on August 10, 2010, 02:15:10 PM
Otule will be given a chance to start, because of his size. If he fairs well against Duke and UW, he will keep his job for the year. Butler, DJO and Cadougan are solid starters. At the beginning Fulce will start. Either Fulce or Otule will lose their starting job to Crowder by the start of the Big East season.
Couldnt agree more.
IMO...Fulce provides a much bigger spark coming off the bench than O'tule would.
I think that O'tule will put up some pretty good numbers in the Non-Con part of the schedule...but they will dip quite a bit as we enter BE play. Hoping the right mix of Crowder/Fulce will be there to pick up some of that slack...
Quote from: T-Bone on August 10, 2010, 01:53:07 PM
Nice that we can have this debate, essentially plugging in nearly the whole roster into the starting lineup. :o
I haven't seen any ProAm games, but from what I've read (and saw last season) the only guys that don't have a chance to start may be: Frozena, Gardner. And Singleton and Wilson of course.
Jones/Blue/Smith will all develop this year and possibly work their way into the starting rotation by the end of the year. E-Will will continue to develop and is capable of making the jump as well. I wouldn't rule any of them out.
Jones is the only one I would take issue with. Not necessarily from anything he has done, but moreso based on who is in front of him.
PG = Junior
SG = DJO
SF = Jimmy
PF = Crowder
C = Otule
I'd like to put Joe in there but I'm counting on Crowder to be the other bonified 3 pt threat. As good as DJO is he can't be your only 3 pt marksman. So far Junior has shown everything except a good 3 pt shot. Jimmy doesn't seem inclined to take it and the only time Otule will take a 3 will be if he wants out of the game. Even the frosh, as good as they are, have not shown the ability to knock down open 3s. Last year we entered the season knowing Lazar, Cubby and Mo could all hit open 3s. DJO's addition was a bonus. This year the biggest ??? in my mind are 3 point shooting and interior defense.
Quote from: Strokin 3s on August 10, 2010, 02:29:35 PM
Jones is the only one I would take issue with. Not necessarily from anything he has done, but moreso based on who is in front of him.
Well, about Jones...you may say that it is nothing he has done, but clearly the reports coming out of the ProAm show that he has work to do.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on August 10, 2010, 02:36:58 PM
This year the biggest ??? in my mind are 3 point shooting and interior defense.
Rightfully so.
However, I think (ok, hope) our interior defense won't have to do as much helping as it had to last year. And by that I mean make up for the lack of defensive "length" we had in there at time with Mo/Cubillan combination. From what I've read, Vander is ready to defend at the college level. Combine that with DJO and Jimmy who both have the ability to be lockdown defenders and we are definately moving the right direction. Perhaps a little bit optimistic...but it is still the offseason ;D
I wonder how often...if ever...we will drop into some type of zone. With the right guys in there mid-way thru half (1st or 2nd i suppose), I'd like to see us gain some momentum and run some type of 2-1-2 or 2-3 zone, to get out and run and absolutely BURY some teams. (and it would be SUPER fun to watch)
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 10, 2010, 02:40:38 PM
Well, about Jones...you may say that it is nothing he has done, but clearly the reports coming out of the ProAm show that he has work to do.
I think he's mentioning the possibility of Jones working his way into the starting rotation. And he's right. When put into perspective of who he would have to unseat to get into the starting lineup... That's a pretty tall order.
Unfortunately we have little to judge him on. His game might be a million times better in a structured system, and playing the Pro-Am might not be his game.
Sure is going to be fun to watch.
Starting line-up on opening night, Nov. 12
Cadougan, DJO, Buycks, Fulce, Butler
Quote from: GOMU1104 on August 10, 2010, 10:27:19 AM
Anything over 9 worries me. Keep it a solid 8.5 man rotation...
Acker has graduated. We do not have a 1/2 guy so we'll have to settle for a 9 guy rotation. ;D
Quote from: mupanther on August 10, 2010, 06:06:02 PM
Starting line-up on opening night, Nov. 12
Cadougan, DJO, Buycks, Fulce, Butler
That line up is way too small and will get killed in BEast. We will need size. it will change.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 11, 2010, 06:37:23 AM
That line up is way too small and will get killed in BEast. We will need size. it will change.
Not disagreeing, but haven't we said the same exact thing for the last several years? And yet we seem to find a way to compete.
Well, the goal isn't to just compete. It's been fun rooting for the undersized team that plays hard, but that can only go so far. We have some size now and need to use it.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 11, 2010, 07:24:18 AM
Well, the goal isn't to just compete. It's been fun rooting for the undersized team that plays hard, but that can only go so far. We have some size now and need to use it.
fair enough and agree completely. BUT, I won't be surprised if we play small ball a good part of the year. Frustrated, but not surprised.
This year's version of small ball will be very different from last year's...at least this year our guards will have some size.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 11, 2010, 06:37:23 AM
That line up is way too small and will get killed in BEast. We will need size. it will change.
I never said anything about Big East play. I said this is the line-up on opening night. ;)
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on August 11, 2010, 08:02:58 AM
fair enough and agree completely. BUT, I won't be surprised if we play small ball a good part of the year. Frustrated, but not surprised.
This year's version of small ball will be very different from last year's...at least this year our guards will have some size.
But we won't have Lazar. He was talented enough to guard big, but I'm not sure Jimmy or Jae can step in to fill that role. On a short time basis yes...but Otule needs to be a significant part of the answer.
Yeah, last year we only had a "small ball" line up.
This year we will have both small ball and big ball. Here is my take of both line ups:
Big-ball lineup
PG: JC
SG: DJO
SF: JB
PF: Jae or Joe
C: CO
Small-Ball lineup
PG: JC
SG: DB
SF: DJO
PF: JB
C: Jae or Joe
At least we will have a choice this year if CO stays healthy and DG gets into shape.
I think we are still at least a year away from abandoning small ball at MU. I don't see CO playing a much bigger role than Burke did during his senior year.
I think it will take Jae 1/2 to 2/3 of the season to get up to speed, similar to Jimmy and DJO. Thus, Fulce will start and get a lot of minutes all year, with Jae coming off the bench and starting the year after.
Wrong. As a former Warrior said to me last Sunday, "Crowder's a bitch."
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 11, 2010, 03:45:27 PM
Wrong. As a former Warrior said to me last Sunday, "Crowder's a bitch."
there you go again, name dropping like your idol, I4.
Quote from: MUSF on August 11, 2010, 12:10:24 PM
I think we are still at least a year away from abandoning small ball at MU. I don't see CO playing a much bigger role than Burke did during his senior year.
I'd be happy with that - Burke helped us a lot his senior year.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 11, 2010, 03:45:27 PM
Wrong. As a former Warrior said to me last Sunday, "Crowder's a bitch."
I heard two descriptions of Crowder on these boards.
"Crowder's a bitch"
"He is no homo"
Taking into account that I am 58 and therefore do not necessarily understand the current lingo. Neither one of these descriptions give me any confidence. I was a freshman when Maurice Lucas was a freshmen. I do not think I be walking today if I walked up to Lucas and told him he was a bitch.
Allow me to help a brother out. Lucas was a bitch also. Bitch is a good thing on the basketball court if he's playing on your team, i.e. Lucas was a bitch. Tony Davis was not a bitch.
bilsu, think young, man.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 12, 2010, 08:54:40 AM
Allow me to help a brother out. Lucas was a bitch also. Bitch is a good thing on the basketball court if he's playing on your team, i.e. Lucas was a bitch. Tony Davis was not a bitch.
bilsu, think young, man.
thanks