MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: duanewade on July 08, 2010, 08:41:31 PM
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Glad LeBron is teaming up with my boy D. Wade to be part of the greatest show on earth down in Miami.
People who say they won't be in the finals or win it next year are high.....those three guys surrounded by solid role players will be impossible to beat in a 7 game series as long as the big 3 stay healthy.
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Glad LeBron is teaming up with my boy D. Wade to be part of the greatest show on earth down in Miami.
People who say they won't be in the finals or win it next year are high.....those three guys surrounded by solid role players will be impossible to beat in a 7 game series as long as the big 3 stay healthy.
And those role players you speak of are...?
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People who say they won't be in the finals or win it next year are high.
Which is it? Finals or winning it all? I want to know if I am high or not.
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And those role players you speak of are...?
Dexter Pittman, Jarvis Varnado, Da'Sean Butler, Michael Beasley, and Mario Chalmers.
Woof.
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Dexter Pittman, Jarvis Varnado, Da'Sean Butler, Michael Beasley, and Mario Chalmers.
Woof.
HA... I love it. I can not recall another time when three rookies drafted outside the top 10 have been considered impact players.
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Winning it all!
Please tell me how I'm wrong or how they'll only have 3 people on their roster and play 3 on 5 as Riley won't be able to fill out the rest of the roster or any other silly responses.....I'll accept your apology next June.
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HA... I love it. I can not recall another time when three rookies drafted outside the top 10 have been considered impact players.
No one said "impact players" they said solid role players....they don't need anymore impact players but if they all take a little less money they can grab a B. Haywood at center, keep Mario Chalmers, get a sharp shooter like a Steve Novak to punish teams for all the open looks the other three will create and the solid base of 2nd rounders (which includes a senior off the final 4 WVU team) and they still win going away. Finally dump Michael Beasley and that is an addition by subtraction.
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Those three can make a lot of minimum salary guys look good on O. Just find some stiffs who can rebound and defend.
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Glad LeBron is teaming up with my boy D. Wade to be part of the greatest show on earth down in Miami.
People who say they won't be in the finals or win it next year are high.....those three guys surrounded by solid role players will be impossible to beat in a 7 game series as long as the big 3 stay healthy.
No apologies, just wanted to clarify...just fixed it for you.
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Winning it all!
Please tell me how I'm wrong or how they'll only have 3 people on their roster and play 3 on 5 as Riley won't be able to fill out the rest of the roster or any other silly responses.....I'll accept your apology next June.
They are going to fill the roster with rookies or old people who want to win a championship before they retire. Those are the only people who play for min contracts. Role players don't have shoe deals or gatorade contracts. They need to make as much money as possible. They aren't going to take a pay cut to play in Miami.
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No one said "impact players" they said solid role players....they don't need anymore impact players but if they all take a little less money they can grab a B. Haywood at center, keep Mario Chalmers, get a sharp shooter like a Steve Novak to punish teams for all the open looks the other three will create and the solid base of 2nd rounders (which includes a senior off the final 4 WVU team) and they still win going away. Finally dump Michael Beasley and that is an addition by subtraction.
Haywood resigned with Dallas.. fyi
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Dexter Pittman, Jarvis Varnado, Da'Sean Butler, Michael Beasley, and Mario Chalmers.
Beasley (for sure) & Chalmers will be traded within two weeks to clear cap room. How about Luke Ridnour to Miami? They need a shooter. Steve Novak to Miami? Travis Diener....?
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And those role players you speak of are...?
Raja Bell, Mike Miller, Zyrdunas Ilgauskas (sp?), Shaq, Jason Kapono, etc....there are plenty. Go to your Bulls forum if you want to piss on this..but reality is Miami>Chicago. You Chicago homers keep trying to act like Noah is going to be a stud (11 and 11 is nice, and I like him..but stop acting like he is everything) and that Rose is a top ten player already (when he isnt even close to being a top 5 pg!).
Please take your sour grapes elsewhere. Here we are Marquette and DWade fans first and this is nothing but awesome for Wade and Marquette.
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And those role players you speak of are...?
Allen Iverson
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That would be epic Knight.
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Beasley (for sure) & Chalmers will be traded within two weeks to clear cap room. How about Luke Ridnour to Miami? They need a shooter. Steve Novak to Miami? Travis Diener....?
Chalmers aint going to be traded, they need a pg that can shoot decently and he is soooo cheap. For cheap, Jason Kapono is probably a better fit than Novak, but you never know. They have an offer out to Miller, and none of use know about the money! They will also be able to resign Joel Anthony and Haslem I believe because of the soft cap.
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Raja Bell, Mike Miller, Zyrdunas Ilgauskas (sp?), Shaq, Jason Kapono, etc....there are plenty. Go to your Bulls forum if you want to piss on this..but reality is Miami>Chicago. You Chicago homers keep trying to act like Noah is going to be a stud (11 and 11 is nice, and I like him..but stop acting like he is everything) and that Rose is a top ten player already (when he isnt even close to being a top 5 pg!).
Please take your sour grapes elsewhere. Here we are Marquette and DWade fans first and this is nothing but awesome for Wade and Marquette.
How is this awesome for Marquette... oh well. This is funny. Nothing will be determined for 9 months. One this is for sure. They are the most polarizing team in the NBA now. I actually might cheer for Kobe.
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Does anyone else feel that they've been cheering for Dwyane and the heat these last 7 years and now just can't picture doing so? For all the doubters of D wade not being able to win titles (or as many as LBJ), D wade proved them wrong. Win however many titles, LBJ will be the major spotlight.
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Wade becomes Scottie Pippen in this scenario....I wouldn't like it, then again he's guaranteed to accomplish a lot in his career from here on out.
All three of these guys are in their prime too.
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The thing is Wade has won a championship without Lebron, and he was arguably the man in that one. Shaq wasn't quite the Shaq of LA. So I think people will still recognize Wade. Lebron is the one coming to join Wade, not Wade riding the coattails of Lebron. I don't think Wade will get the press he used to, but I don't think he will be forgotten about.
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1. No Bulls fan is happy to night, poser.
2. Hope those guys like playing 44 minutes a night.
3. LeBron should have gone to Oz. No brain, no heart, no courage.
I hate to steal from Bill Simmons (mostly because Simmons has been mostly unreadable for a couple years now), but as he said, if LeBron wanted to be loyal, he'd choose Cleveland. If he wanted to win, he'd choose Chicago. If he wanted a shot at immortality, he'd choose New York. Instead, he chose "Help!"
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Hate it. Not a big Lebron fan at all. Would have much rather seen Labron and Wade battle each other. Labron has always seemed childish to me in his actions and need for attention. This move goes against that thought, so hopefully I'm wrong about him.
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Raja Bell, Mike Miller, Zyrdunas Ilgauskas (sp?), Shaq, Jason Kapono, etc....there are plenty. Go to your Bulls forum if you want to piss on this..but reality is Miami>Chicago. You Chicago homers keep trying to act like Noah is going to be a stud (11 and 11 is nice, and I like him..but stop acting like he is everything) and that Rose is a top ten player already (when he isnt even close to being a top 5 pg!).
Please take your sour grapes elsewhere. Here we are Marquette and DWade fans first and this is nothing but awesome for Wade and Marquette.
you're insane if you think any of those guys would sign for the minimum. there is probably going to be a lockout next year...you think these guys want to walk into that making the minimum with no guaranteed money? Raja Bell, maybe. Sure, they can resign Joel Anthony and Haslem because they are their own free agents. The Heat will be damn good, but they're not even the best team in the east right now.
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Chalmers aint going to be traded, they need a pg that can shoot decently and he is soooo cheap. For cheap, Jason Kapono is probably a better fit than Novak, but you never know. They have an offer out to Miller, and none of use know about the money! They will also be able to resign Joel Anthony and Haslem I believe because of the soft cap.
That's why I said only Beasley (for sure) will be traded. There's talk of getting Andre Miller @ PG. Lot's of possibilities. It depends on who will play in Miami for less.
I can't imagine rooting against DWade! LBJ said it himself that DWade sacrificed the most in this scenario. DWade will always have one more ring than LBJ!
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Beasley was traded. Tonight.
The Miami Heat have found a trade taker for Michael Beasley that will create more salary-cap space for the dramatic transformation of their roster.
Sources close to the situation told ESPN.com that the Heat have agreed on a trade that will send Beasley to the Minnesota Timberwolves, who can absorb Beasley's contract into their salary-cap space.
Minnesota, according to sources, will complete the trade by sending Miami a second-round pick in 2011. The Wolves and Heat, sources said, have also agreed to swap an unspecified future first-round pick.
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the bulls were soooo confident they'd end up with wade, bosh, james, or a combination of all three. i think its great they didn't get any
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the bulls were soooo confident they'd end up with wade, bosh, james, or a combination of all three. i think its great they didn't get any
As a Bulls fan, I really never thought any of them would come and I am pretty happy with this free agency. I thought Wade would be a tough fit and above all, he wanted to stay at Miami. Bosh was going to follow someone so he was out of the picture. And Lebron felt like a long shot. As the drama continued, I definitely felt that LBJ was a possibility because it made so much sense from a money (max contract, third largest market, etc) standpoint and basketball (all the pieces are there). I like the Bulls position. We have a solid team right now AND the bulls have 18 mil to play with. I hope the get Morrow or Korver to spread the floor.
Once I see some of the Miami pieces fall into place like a Mike Miller, Andre Miller, and maybe some others, I might start to think they are contenders. Maybe the three of them can really change the way the game is played from a team perspective. I agree with one talking head that said LBJ and Wade can not be the same players they were when they were the lone stars.
Lastly, if Heat hit some bumps, its gonna get interesting. This is still a team sport. There is one leader. One guy pounding the war drum and getting in other player's faces and no one gets in theirs. I'll definitely watch and cheer against the Heat and hope for the implosion.
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I'm a Bulls fan but I'm also a Dwyane Wade fan and want to see him do well.
Lebron to the Heat worries me as I don't think a team with 3 all-stars and 9 pieces of crap can win a title. I would have rather the Heat used the money for Lebron to fill out their roster.
On the plus side Dwyane will always have more titles than Lebron.
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I'm pumped for Wade, Bosh and Lebron. I've also been enjoying all of the crybaby Chicago fans. Cry on!
Beasley was traded. Tonight.
The Miami Heat have found a trade taker for Michael Beasley that will create more salary-cap space for the dramatic transformation of their roster.
Sources close to the situation told ESPN.com that the Heat have agreed on a trade that will send Beasley to the Minnesota Timberwolves, who can absorb Beasley's contract into their salary-cap space.
Minnesota, according to sources, will complete the trade by sending Miami a second-round pick in 2011. The Wolves and Heat, sources said, have also agreed to swap an unspecified future first-round pick.
I got halfway through this post and started hoping that Beasley was traded to the TWolves for Hayward.
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I agree with one talking head that said LBJ and Wade can not be the same players they were when they were the lone stars.
I think there is a real possibility that LeBron could develop into a Magic Johnson-like "Point Forward." I think he has the talent for that role and is very well suited for that. Ever since I watched him play in HS I've been more impressed by some of his passes than any other aspect of his game. Not sure how that would fit his ego.
If he were to embrace this role, I could see him getting close to averaging a triple-double for a season.
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I think there is a real possibility that LeBron could develop into a Magic Johnson-like "Point Forward." I think he has the talent for that role and is very well suited for that. Ever since I watched him play in HS I've been more impressed by some of his passes than any other aspect of his game. Not sure how that would fit his ego.
If he were to embrace this role, I could see him getting close to averaging a triple-double for a season.
Which is probably the only way this setup works.
Also, FREE LAZAR.
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I think there is a real possibility that LeBron could develop into a Magic Johnson-like "Point Forward." I think he has the talent for that role and is very well suited for that. Ever since I watched him play in HS I've been more impressed by some of his passes than any other aspect of his game. Not sure how that would fit his ego.
If he were to embrace this role, I could see him getting close to averaging a triple-double for a season.
Miami suits LeBron better than Chicago, NY or Cleveland. It's a much more laid back environment and the pressure to be "the man" in those other cities would have been too much for him. He doesn't have that "leader" mentality like Jordan, Kobe or even Wade. He wants to be loved by his teammates more than anything. He doesn't have the personality to get in someone's face when they aren't pulling their weight. He'd much rather be in position to be 1a/1b as opposed to be the guy who is responsible for bringing home a title. He's always been more of a Magic than a Michael anyway, so I think he could embrace the roll of distributor and consistently put up 20-12-10 lines. He definitely put his ego aside during the Olympics. We'll see if he can do the same during the NBA season.
If nothing else, it should be interesting to watch.
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You Chicago homers keep trying to act like Noah is going to be a stud (11 and 11 is nice, and I like him..but stop acting like he is everything).
Well, he averaged 13-12 against Bosh last year, so I'm not terribly worried there.
And it's not like the NBA's crawling with guys who average a double-double without having a single play run for them.
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This Miami team will not be hard to beat in a 7 game series. The Heat will probably start off 30-3 and then teams will figure it out. When all three of those guys are in, run the clock down and go at Bosh at the end of the shot clock and try to get fouls on him. Run Wade off picks the entire time. Constant motion and hope wear out over 7 games. theyTake your lumps and try to draw even while both James and Wade are in.
When Wade or James come to the bench, press them and run and gun. Double team Wade or James when only one is on the floor the second they touch it. They won't have the players they had on the Cavs/Heat. Teams can get on big runs when only one of James and Wade is on the floor.
The Heat signed 2 of the best three players in the NBA, which is crazy. They did not sign 3 superstars. I think Bosh is going to be a huge disappointment down there. They are not going to get good interior defense to make up for what he does not bring. Search Chris Bosh highlights on youtube and you see finger rolls, jumpers, and blocks on PGs. He is a big SF and can be exploited by the frontlines of Atlanta, Chicago, Boston, and Orlando. I am not sure he can hold up against those teams. Pau will absolutely murder Bosh too.
The good thing for Marquette- Wade will get tons of credit when they win games, but all the blame will be deflected to James. Wade looks like a martyr if they don't win titles to James' inabilities.
As far as Bulls go, they are favorites in the Central now with Cleveland done. Bucks will be tough. Bulls could get a matchup with Boston in round 2 if Boston wins that atlantic, which will be a lot of fun.
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He's always been more of a Magic than a Michael anyway,
You're forgetting about the 42-15-7-3 Magic put up while playing center as a rookie in a clinching game of the NBA Finals.
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You're forgetting about the 42-15-7-3 Magic put up while playing center as a rookie in a clinching game of the NBA Finals.
I don't know what that one game has to do with anything. I meant that LeBron's skill-set matches more with Magic in terms of being a passer and a big "point" as opposed to being a scorer (and lock-down defender) like Jordan.
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I don't know what that one game has to do with anything. I meant that LeBron's skill-set matches more with Magic in terms of being a passer and a big "point" as opposed to being a scorer (and lock-down defender) like Jordan.
Oh, I thought by drawing comparisons between Magic, LeBron and MJ, you were implying that Magic didn't have that stone cold killer instinct that MJ did.
And LeBron's more like Dr. J than he is like Magic.
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Oh, I thought by drawing comparisons between Magic, LeBron and MJ, you were implying that Magic didn't have that stone cold killer instinct that MJ did.
And LeBron's more like Dr. J than he is like Magic.
I can see that. Not a bad comparison.
This is a pretty good article on LeBron. It's somewhat similar to what Bill Simmons wrote yesterday.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/07/08/lebron.event/index.html?eref=sihp
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Raja Bell, Mike Miller, Zyrdunas Ilgauskas (sp?), Shaq, Jason Kapono, etc....there are plenty. Go to your Bulls forum if you want to piss on this..but reality is Miami>Chicago. You Chicago homers keep trying to act like Noah is going to be a stud (11 and 11 is nice, and I like him..but stop acting like he is everything) and that Rose is a top ten player already (when he isnt even close to being a top 5 pg!).
Please take your sour grapes elsewhere. Here we are Marquette and DWade fans first and this is nothing but awesome for Wade and Marquette.
You're also insane if you think Rose is not a top five PG in the league. Please share with all of us your list of top five point guards. Just as a preemptive response to your list, take into account the big men that players in your top-five list have to go to.
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You're also insane if you think Rose is not a top five PG in the league. Please share with all of us your list of top five point guards. Just as a preemptive response to your list, take into account the big men that players in your top-five list have to go to.
Nash, Paul, Williams, Rondo, Kidd, Davis, Westbrook, and Harris, based on assist average last year.
Also LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.
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Off the top of my head the top 5 point guards in the league.
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
This can be debated all you want but I can't think of another point guard better than Rose to make it to the top 10. Chauncey Billups...
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The thing is Wade has won a championship without Lebron, and he was arguably the man in that one. Shaq wasn't quite the Shaq of LA. So I think people will still recognize Wade. Lebron is the one coming to join Wade, not Wade riding the coattails of Lebron. I don't think Wade will get the press he used to, but I don't think he will be forgotten about.
No argument about it. Shaq was past his prime by then, though he could still command a double team on the low blocks and rebound and clog the middle, so Wade wasn't winning without him. But there is no question that Wade was THE MAN on that team.
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No argument about it. Shaq was past his prime by then, though he could still command a double team on the low blocks and rebound and clog the middle, so Wade wasn't winning without him. But there is no question that Wade was THE MAN on that team.
Wade basically has nothing to lose with Bosh and LBJ joining him. Wade has already proven that he can carry a team to a championship. If the Heat don't win another one, the blame will primarily be placed on LeBron and, to a much, much lesser extent, Bosh (unless Wade goes completely in the tank).
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No argument about it. Shaq was past his prime by then, though he could still command a double team on the low blocks and rebound and clog the middle, so Wade wasn't winning without him. But there is no question that Wade was THE MAN on that team.
True, I probably didn't word that the best. What I meant was some people may have thought at the time or do now that "oh he had Shaq" and think they were more of a 1-2 punch than they really were in that Finals. However, Shaq was not all that close to the Shaq that was in LA. Still a good center that needed attention, but not a dominating force.
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Jilted Bulls fans are making my head hurt.
YOU HAVE A VERY GOOD TEAM! GET OVER IT!
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True, I probably didn't word that the best. What I meant was some people may have thought at the time or do now that "oh he had Shaq" and think they were more of a 1-2 punch than they really were in that Finals. However, Shaq was not all that close to the Shaq that was in LA. Still a good center that needed attention, but not a dominating force.
So how do you explain the 15 win season in 07-08?
Miami hasnt done anything since Shaq left.
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So how do you explain the 15 win season in 07-08?
Miami hasnt done anything since Shaq left.
Wade only played 51 games that season. Shaq played 33, Haslem played 49...and Chris Quinn started 25 games and Ricky Davis played all 82. That's a recipe for a 15-win season.
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Nash, Paul, Williams, Rondo, Kidd, Davis, Westbrook, and Harris, based on assist average last year.
Also LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.
Really? Give me a break. Are you really just basing point guard play on assists? You do realize that Rose leads them all in point average and did not have a dependable big man to pass to down low or a sharp shooter to kick it out to, yet he still managed six assists a game. And please tell me you're joking when you say that you'd rather have Harris, Westbrook, Davis, Kidd, or even Rondo over Rose. That's ridiculous. The top four, in no particular order, are Williams, Paul, Rose, and Rondo.
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Jilted Bulls fans are making my head hurt.
YOU HAVE A VERY GOOD TEAM! GET OVER IT!
Who are you talking about?
We aren't allowed to think that Rose is good or that it will be hard to build a team with no money? There are non-bulls fans who agree with that.
I keep reading posts like this but they never address who is crying. I think some posters from wisconsin think bulls fans are outraged and are coming on the board and saying that they are without basing it on anything.
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Who are you talking about?
We aren't allowed to think that Rose is good or that it will be hard to build a team with no money? There are non-bulls fans who agree with that.
I keep reading posts like this but they never address who is crying. I think some posters from wisconsin think bulls fans are outraged and are coming on the board and saying that they are without basing it on anything.
+1
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Jilted Bulls fans are making my head hurt.
YOU HAVE A VERY GOOD TEAM! GET OVER IT!
LOUD NOISES!
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!
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Who are you talking about?
We aren't allowed to think that Rose is good or that it will be hard to build a team with no money? There are non-bulls fans who agree with that.
I keep reading posts like this but they never address who is crying. I think some posters from wisconsin think bulls fans are outraged and are coming on the board and saying that they are without basing it on anything.
Exactly. The Heat are barely under the cap with these three guys now, and they will all get raises in the coming years.
If the owners get rid of the midlevel exception (which is a possibility) Miami is screwed.
So the Bulls struck out with Wade and James. They did get the PF that they preferred and at a much lower cost than Bosh is going to be. The Bulls have a lot to look forward to.
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you're insane if you think any of those guys would sign for the minimum. there is probably going to be a lockout next year...you think these guys want to walk into that making the minimum with no guaranteed money? Raja Bell, maybe. Sure, they can resign Joel Anthony and Haslem because they are their own free agents. The Heat will be damn good, but they're not even the best team in the east right now.
Disagree, you're insane for thinking they wont have other players and a team. Miller is coming anyways. There are something like 150 free agents or something ridiculous...there just isnt enough money around, many will have to...and whats the best option?
I love how everybody loves to hate on this team right now, Ive never been on that side of fandom....my teams lose or are underdogs mostly.
Im pretty Sure they will be okay with 3 top ten players (Chicago has zero)...still wish they couldve gotten Hayward with the Beasley deal though. Wade should reach out to Matthews for a short term deal. If you win a championship, your next contract is going to be bigger.
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Disagree, you're insane for thinking they wont have other players and a team. Miller is coming anyways. There are something like 150 free agents or something ridiculous...there just isnt enough money around, many will have to...and whats the best option?
I love how everybody loves to hate on this team right now, Ive never been on that side of fandom....my teams lose or are underdogs mostly.
Im pretty Sure they will be okay with 3 top ten players (Chicago has zero)...still wish they couldve gotten Hayward with the Beasley deal though. Wade should reach out to Matthews for a short term deal. If you win a championship, your next contract is going to be bigger.
Like Miller, people will take a $30 million deal. I am not seeing the good players taking $1/year. Maybe Shaq, but I don't even know if he would. I was hearing Spurs for him at the midlevel.
$30 is a HUGE difference than $1 million/year. You can justify that. It is very hard to justify the $1 million. When has that ever happened and worked?
This CBA may screw the Heat. No one wants to do the short deal with the uncertainty of next summer. The new CBA may get rid of the midlevel as well.
Wes is a restricted FA so Miami does not have the money to get a player like that.
Finally, Bosh is not a top ten player at all. Miami did sign 2 top 5 players, yes. That is going to be great for them. Bosh is not a superstar.
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Im pretty Sure they will be okay with 3 top ten players (Chicago has zero)...
I'm sure you're right...I have no doubt they will be "okay." But, if you have three top ten players, you damn sure better be better than "okay." If they don't win a championship -- and I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that they will -- it's a failure.
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Does anyone else feel that they've been cheering for Dwyane and the heat these last 7 years and now just can't picture doing so? For all the doubters of D wade not being able to win titles (or as many as LBJ), D wade proved them wrong. Win however many titles, LBJ will be the major spotlight.
nope. the heat have been my fav NBA team since 2003 and that'll continue.
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Like Miller, people will take a $30 million deal. I am not seeing the good players taking $1/year. Maybe Shaq, but I don't even know if he would. I was hearing Spurs for him at the midlevel.
$30 is a HUGE difference than $1 million/year. You can justify that. It is very hard to justify the $1 million. When has that ever happened and worked?
This CBA may screw the Heat. No one wants to do the short deal with the uncertainty of next summer. The new CBA may get rid of the midlevel as well.
Wes is a restricted FA so Miami does not have the money to get a player like that.
Finally, Bosh is not a top ten player at all. Miami did sign 2 top 5 players, yes. That is going to be great for them. Bosh is not a superstar.
Agreed, Bosh is not a top ten player. Compare Boozer's numbers with Bosh's, they're comparable with Boozer who sports a higher FG percentage and more playoff experience (and better playoff numbers than regular season). Bosh was the go-to guy on a middling team that took way more shots than he should have, hence the higher point average. Point being, Boozer is not a top ten player, therefore Bosh is not either.
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Im pretty Sure they will be okay with 3 top ten players (Chicago has zero)...still wish they couldve gotten Hayward with the Beasley deal though. Wade should reach out to Matthews for a short term deal. If you win a championship, your next contract is going to be bigger.
Not even remotely possible. Matthews is a restricted free agent. Utah can match any offer a team makes to him. Teams with cap room, like Chicago or Portland, could hypothetically put together an offer Utah would refuse to meet. After signing James, Miami can't do that. If Matthews signs with Miami, I guarantee you Utah will match the offer and he'll be back with the Jazz next season.
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I was going to ask too...who is the Heat's 3 top ten players? I know Wade and LBJ are, but I wasn't sure if Mario Chalmers was the third one?
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Like Miller, people will take a $30 million deal. I am not seeing the good players taking $1/year. Maybe Shaq, but I don't even know if he would. I was hearing Spurs for him at the midlevel.
$30 is a HUGE difference than $1 million/year. You can justify that. It is very hard to justify the $1 million. When has that ever happened and worked?
This CBA may screw the Heat. No one wants to do the short deal with the uncertainty of next summer. The new CBA may get rid of the midlevel as well.
Wes is a restricted FA so Miami does not have the money to get a player like that.
Finally, Bosh is not a top ten player at all. Miami did sign 2 top 5 players, yes. That is going to be great for them. Bosh is not a superstar.
Yes, they will offer more than $1 million....they can also back load contracts over a long contract....oh, and there are solid veterans out there who will take a shot at a ring (and there simply isnt enough money out there for everyone to get a lot- over 150 free agents or so!).
The CBA isnt going to screw the Heat by the way (still holding out hope someone wont allow this?) Haha, David Stern loves this stuff. If the CBA gets rid of the mid-level, are you assuming everything stays the same and there arent other changes?....how did Pau Gasol magically go to the Lakers for literally nothing, or the Boston 3 thing happen? Stern knows this is good for the NBA, polarizing teams keeps conversation going. NBA is ALL about dynasties. And by the way, was Pau Gasol a top ten player before he got to LA and joined with Kobe? I like Boozer, I think Chicago is the most dangerous team to wreck the Heat's hopes (I was scared for Wade if James went to Chicago, that would be a huge challenge). Ill concede you are right about Bosh not being top 10, but he may be soon.
If I had to bet Id still bet Lakers win it all next year against the Heat, but after that its going to be a long run.
Why dont we all wait until they get to roster before we make complete judgments on it?
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HA... I love it. I can not recall another time when three rookies drafted outside the top 10 have been considered impact players.
I would not call these draftees chopped liver. Butler was almost BEast Player of Year and will help off the bench. Vanardo was a two time all SEC first teamer, and both he and Pittman are big bodies.
Heat do need a more seasoned big guy off the bench, and a shooter, but there are guys out there. Kyle Korver could be the shooter--could Novak be pulled in?
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Not even remotely possible. Matthews is a restricted free agent. Utah can match any offer a team makes to him. Teams with cap room, like Chicago or Portland, could hypothetically put together an offer Utah would refuse to meet. After signing James, Miami can't do that. If Matthews signs with Miami, I guarantee you Utah will match the offer and he'll be back with the Jazz next season.
Yeah, I know that. I know its unlikely...I didnt mean that realistically- just that it would be awesome.
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Yes, they will offer more than $1 million....they can also back load contracts over a long contract....oh, and there are solid veterans out there who will take a shot at a ring (and there simply isnt enough money out there for everyone to get a lot- over 150 free agents or so!).
The CBA isnt going to screw the Heat by the way (still holding out hope someone wont allow this?) Haha, David Stern loves this stuff. If the CBA gets rid of the mid-level, are you assuming everything stays the same and there arent other changes?....how did Pau Gasol magically go to the Lakers for literally nothing, or the Boston 3 thing happen? Stern knows this is good for the NBA, polarizing teams keeps conversation going. NBA is ALL about dynasties. And by the way, was Pau Gasol a top ten player before he got to LA and joined with Kobe? I like Boozer, I think Chicago is the most dangerous team to wreck the Heat's hopes (I was scared for Wade if James went to Chicago, that would be a huge challenge).
If I had to bet Id still bet Lakers win it all next year against the Heat, but after that its going to be a long run.
Why dont we all wait until they get to roster before we make complete judgments on it?
I don't believe in conspiracy theories about the NBA. The Grizz were gonna lose Pau (I thought) anyway and they gor Marc Gasol who is not bad. The T-wolves getting Al Jefferson was as good of a player they were going to get for Garnett and the Sonics got that guy from Georgetown who is a good player for them for Ray Allen. Those were pretty fair trades to Boston. Teams maintain good teams because they pay their players to stay. Boston and LA generate a lot of revenue to do it.
And you cannot give someone $1 million and backload a deal. You can give players the minimum salary based on how ever many years they are in the league. No one is going to lock themselves in at the minimum. The big three are getting raises every year and they alone will basically push the team over the cap. They can only sign minimum players and pray the mid level stays.
I don't know who all of these free agents are that are going to sign wit the Heat like you suggesting. There is so much money to be had in Chicago, New Jersey, New York, and LA Clippers.
Who are these good players? They must be hiding next to the big men Buzz should be signing every year.
And when has anyone ever signed for the minimum like this and it worked out?
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If I had to bet Id still bet Lakers win it all next year against the Heat, but after that its going to be a long run.
Why dont we all wait until they get to roster before we make complete judgments on it?
You realize that you are making a judgement and then telling other people not to make judgements right? You just said that they won't build a supporting cast that will allow them to beat the lakers this year.
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I would not call these draftees chopped liver. Butler was almost BEast Player of Year and will help off the bench. Vanardo was a two time all SEC first teamer, and both he and Pittman are big bodies.
Heat do need a more seasoned big guy off the bench, and a shooter, but there are guys out there. Kyle Korver could be the shooter--could Novak be pulled in?
Korver will be a Bull. Why? MONEY! He doesn't care about a championship. He doesn't have a shoe deal. He'll take the money.
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I don't believe in conspiracy theories about the NBA. The Grizz were gonna lose Pau (I thought) anyway and they gor Marc Gasol who is not bad. The T-wolves getting Al Jefferson was as good of a player they were going to get for Garnett and the Sonics got that guy from Georgetown who is a good player for them for Ray Allen. Those were pretty fair trades to Boston. Teams maintain good teams because they pay their players to stay. Boston and LA generate a lot of revenue to do it.
And you cannot give someone $1 million and backload a deal. You can give players the minimum salary based on how ever many years they are in the league. No one is going to lock themselves in at the minimum. The big three are getting raises every year and they alone will basically push the team over the cap. They can only sign minimum players and pray the mid level stays.
I don't know who all of these free agents are that are going to sign wit the Heat like you suggesting. There is so much money to be had in Chicago, New Jersey, New York, and LA Clippers.
Who are these good players? They must be hiding next to the big men Buzz should be signing every year.
And when has anyone ever signed for the minimum like this and it worked out?
Jesus, I never said that! But Miller isn't making 6 million this year! It will backloaded, not talking about the minimum players. We'll see what happens, I have a feeling Pat Riley will do well.
Agree that there is no conspiracy, just pointing out other big moves. But there is no way Stern allows the CBA to hamper the Heat and future dynasties like you are suggesting
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Korver will be a Bull. Why? MONEY! He doesn't care about a championship. He doesn't have a shoe deal. He'll take the money.
Coming to the Bulls or Nets does not mean no championship. It is not go to Miami and you want to win, and go anywhere else is not wanting to win.
Maybe Melo will sign for the league minimum in Miami next year too. It will help his stock. The Big Three in Miami are not winners because they did not sign with the Lakers for the minimum to challenge the 72 win record.
If Kyle Korver should turn down something like $7 million, why shouldn't the big dogs do it? It is just not happening. There is no basis for it. No one under 35 is going to take the minimum if they are worth more. Maybe people within reason take a paycut, but not the minimum.
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You realize that you are making a judgement and then telling other people not to make judgements right? You just said that they won't build a supporting cast that will allow them to beat the lakers this year.
Alright, you got me. I was just trying to say I dont think the Heat are automatically the best team on paper either....I dont mean to come off saying that the bench doesnt matter. Just sick of people (Chicago fans) saying this team will not win, be a disappointment and will have a terrible bench when they have barely started to fill out the roster.
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Jesus, I never said that! But Miller isn't making 6 million this year! It will backloaded, not talking about the minimum players. We'll see what happens, I have a feeling Pat Riley will do well.
Agree that there is no conspiracy, just pointing out other big moves. But there is no way Stern allows the CBA to hamper the Heat and future dynasties like you are suggesting
You get a base salary and then get raises so every deal is basically backloaded. You can't say $1 million this year and $15 next year. You didn't necessarily say that, but Riley really has no room to do anything. They should take Miller though if he is willing to sign for that. I think the Knicks were talking about going over the top on that.
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I can see that. Not a bad comparison.
This is a pretty good article on LeBron. It's somewhat similar to what Bill Simmons wrote yesterday.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/07/08/lebron.event/index.html?eref=sihp
Great article, hit the nail on the head. Thanks for posting it. Prior to the playoffs, I thought LeBron had the chance to be better than Jordan as he has all the physical tools to be the best ever. The one question was whether he had the competitive drive Michael or Kobe does. After his dreadful playoff series against Boston and this move to Miami, its pretty clear he doesn't. If he thinks he will get the credit for titles after this, he's mistaken. A player of LeBron's skills earns respect by winning titles. In this case, LeBron will have lost the respect of fans regardless. I don't hate the man, but I don't respect him either. He's taken the easy way out and I hope he falls on his face. I've also lost respect for Wade. Why did he mention moving to Chicago to be closer to his kids even if he knew that Bosh and Lebron were coming to Miami? I don't believe for a second that Wade and Bosh didn't know of Lebrons decision prior to last night. Why did Wade play it that way and invoke his kids?
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ESPN Insider has the Heat after the following players:
Jason Williams
Mike James
Keyon Dooling
Earl Watson
Raja Bell
Larry Hughes
Flip Murray
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Deavean George
Brian Skinner
Damien Wilkins
Trenton Hassell
Jarvis Hayes
Eddie House
Etan Thomas
Ime Udoka
Lots of names people recognize. Who knows if they could make that work. Lots of players that deserve the minimum to be honest.
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ESPN Insider has the Heat after the following players:
Jason Williams
Mike James
Keyon Dooling
Earl Watson
Raja Bell
Larry Hughes
Flip Murray
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Deavean George
Brian Skinner
Damien Wilkins
Trenton Hassell
Jarvis Hayes
Eddie House
Etan Thomas
Ime Udoka
Lots of names people recognize. Who knows if they could make that work. Lots of players that deserve the minimum to be honest.
Wow, that's a who's who of "third man off the bench."
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All three are savy business men. Each probaby saved themselves at least 2-3 million if not more in state income taxes over the life of their contracts by playing in Florida, which has no income tax. No wonder our Govenor here in New Jersey did not want to re-instate the millionaires tax. They will only leave.
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Lediva spends more money on strippers each year. 2 mil is chump change to these guys...it's not about the money it's about making the league their biatch and getting rings. Lediva needed a couple other elite players to get there, nothing to be ashamed of, every player does(MJ with Pippen, Kobe with Shaq + Gasol, Wade with Shaq, etc.)
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I can see that. Not a bad comparison.
This is a pretty good article on LeBron. It's somewhat similar to what Bill Simmons wrote yesterday.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/07/08/lebron.event/index.html?eref=sihp
that is a great article - thanks for posting! hard to argue with it, especially when he compares it to jordan in the opening scenario.
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For anyone who knows: How much less money can Wade/LBJ/Bosh take by NBA rules? I know they cant take only $10 mil a year or something like that, there is some restriction (justifiably). Just wondering what the limit is, can they only shed a few million?
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Who are you talking about?
We aren't allowed to think that Rose is good or that it will be hard to build a team with no money? There are non-bulls fans who agree with that.
I keep reading posts like this but they never address who is crying. I think some posters from wisconsin think bulls fans are outraged and are coming on the board and saying that they are without basing it on anything.
1. I'm not from Wisconsin
2. I'm basing it on comments from Bulls fans saying they are now anti-Wade because he is a huge jerk and they hope to see him and the other losers implode on each other. How about Bulls fan that seems disgusted by Wade wearing (gasp!) a pair of IU shorts. Others say that they can't cheer for Wade and the Heat now.
I'm sure these fans would have been jumping up and down for the big jerk and his loser friends if he joined the Bulls. (Just a hunch)
3. All of the blame for not ending up with the Bulls is placed on the three players. What about the organization that didn't do enough to seal the deal? It seems that the Bulls did everything right but those selfish pricks chose to play for a worse team because all they care about is money and partying in Miami. Yeah, I'm sure it's that simple.
4. I realize that the jilted Bulls fans I am referring to make up the minority. That's why I said jilted Bulls fans make my head hurt, not Bulls fans in general. RawdogDX, I would classify you as a rational Bulls fan and I apologize if I offended you.
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If I had to bet Id still bet Lakers win it all next year against the Heat, but after that its going to be a long run.
Why dont we all wait until they get to roster before we make complete judgments on it?
+1
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For anyone who knows: How much less money can Wade/LBJ/Bosh take by NBA rules? I know they cant take only $10 mil a year or something like that, there is some restriction (justifiably). Just wondering what the limit is, can they only shed a few million?
I think you can always take the minimum. The minimum is based on how many years you are in the league, so Wes' minimum this year was something around $400,000ish but it gets up to around $1 million after a few years.
I think Shaq was at around $20 million and can sign for the minimum.
Jermaine O'Neal was around $20 million and signed the mid-level for about $5 million.
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I think you can always take the minimum. The minimum is based on how many years you are in the league, so Wes' minimum this year was something around $400,000ish but it gets up to around $1 million after a few years.
I think Shaq was at around $20 million and can sign for the minimum.
Jermaine O'Neal was around $20 million and signed the mid-level for about $5 million.
But for all on one team? Huh, I thought there was some restrictions...like the Player's Association wouldn't let them if it gets too low.
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But for all on one team? Huh, I thought there was some restrictions...like the Player's Association wouldn't let them if it gets too low.
I think that teams have a minimum that they must spend total on player salaries. Then there is a minimum that a player can take based on tenure in the league.
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For Cavs fans out there...
What did you think of Dan Gilbert's reaction?
For those who don't know, Gilbert (among other things) owns FatHead. Late last night, he priced the LBJ Cavs FatHead down to $17.41. That number is the same year Benedict Arnold turned traitor for those wondering.
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No, you don't need to apologize. I wasn't offended, you weren't the only person who posted something like that and I just don't see it.
I'm looking for a post where someone says that they don't like wade. There is one where a guy says he can't see himself cheering for the heat. I don't think that is the same as saying he is a jerk. I must just be missing something you are seeing. The IU shorts is in no way related to the bulls, plenty of MU fans were outraged. How about the MU fans that were 'disappointed' in him for getting divorced? Or because he had a painting of himself in his house? Or were all those bulls fans?
It may be the bulls fault for not being able to close the deal or the trinity could have decided this last summer and no other team had a chance. We'll never really know.
These three guys took less cash to play with each other and try to win titles. That alone would have been a story that would have gotten everyone behind them, but they had camera crews following them around and this hour long show which soured what they were doing. They will be good, they will compete for a title and probably win won soon. I think that every poster here agrees with that, i just don't see why it's 'lunacy' to pick someone else to win a title in 2011. And some people have said that.
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For Cavs fans out there...
What did you think of Dan Gilbert's reaction?
For those who don't know, Gilbert (among other things) owns FatHead. Late last night, he priced the LBJ Cavs FatHead down to $17.41. That number is the same year Benedict Arnold turned traitor for those wondering.
Just like Benedict Arnold, LBJ was a commited warrior/hero before leaving an organization that couldn't seem to get their act together to properly support his efforts.
I'm not saying either was justified.
BTW: Dan Gilbert is acting like an @$$ clown. He is only helping prove that Cleveland is not a first class organization. Elite organizations let this stuff roll off their back then rebuild and win. They don't run around badmouthing guys like a jilted ex-girlfriend. I'm sure his behavior will really help attract players.
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I think all of you people that dont think these three can get it done in Miami are going to look very foolish in time. Lets just remeber Boston 3-4 years ago when they brought in Peirce, KG, and ray allen. they were completely surrounded by NBA journeyman and unproven players yet still won an NBA title. This year while Rondo had improved greatly they were still surrounded by no ones and washed up players, they still got to the finals.
the difference in Miami is twofold. 1. LBJ, Bosh, and DWAde are far far far far superior than the 3 in Boston, so far its almost not comparable. 2. They will have a far greater ability to attract talent that liek them are willing to take major pay cuts to win rings. DWade on the radio today said his phone is ringing off the hook with people wanting to come to Miami.
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I'm looking for a post where someone says that they don't like wade. There is one where a guy says he can't see himself cheering for the heat. I don't think that is the same as saying he is a jerk. I must just be missing something you are seeing. The IU shorts is in no way related to the bulls, plenty of MU fans were outraged. How about the MU fans that were 'disappointed' in him for getting divorced? Or because he had a painting of himself in his house? Or were all those bulls fans?
You will find all of those things in other threads about the free agency saga. I just posted my frustration in the most recent thread related to this topic. Sorry for the confusion.
You're right, there are a lot of MU fans that have criticized Wade. Most of the criticism is ridiculous and some is justified. My point is that the people bringing it up in these threads would probably be singing his praises if he signed with the Bulls. That is just my assumption / opinion, but I think it is accurate.
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I don't think people are criticizing Wade. I think people are questioning annointing this team.
That being said, I give them two titles in five years.
Next year they don't have the pieces.
Years 2-5, they are probably the favorites going into each year. One year they will get an injury. One year they will have a fluke thing happen like a Derrick Fisher shot v. the Spurs, a Reggie Miller 8 points in 8 seconds, or a Scottie Pippen migraine. Then I say they win two of the other years.
I also base that on the Lakers not going out quietly as Kobe retires, Oklahoma City becoming as good of a team as Miami potentially (Westbrook and Durant could honestly challenge Wade and James), and Orlando always being there. Another team like Chicago or Portland could break out too.
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Korver will be a Bull. Why? MONEY! He doesn't care about a championship. He doesn't have a shoe deal. He'll take the money.
Korver's a done deal. 3 year, 15 mil. Now, a defensive specialist...
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Really? Give me a break. Are you really just basing point guard play on assists? You do realize that Rose leads them all in point average and did not have a dependable big man to pass to down low or a sharp shooter to kick it out to, yet he still managed six assists a game. And please tell me you're joking when you say that you'd rather have Harris, Westbrook, Davis, Kidd, or even Rondo over Rose. That's ridiculous. The top four, in no particular order, are Williams, Paul, Rose, and Rondo.
Dude. Unclench.
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Really? Give me a break. Are you really just basing point guard play on assists? You do realize that Rose leads them all in point average and did not have a dependable big man to pass to down low or a sharp shooter to kick it out to, yet he still managed six assists a game. And please tell me you're joking when you say that you'd rather have Harris, Westbrook, Davis, Kidd, or even Rondo over Rose. That's ridiculous. The top four, in no particular order, are Williams, Paul, Rose, and Rondo.
Wrong. Im not as high on Paul as many other are (his team has done nothing even though apparently he is so great)...but it takes more than being a shoot first point guard in his first two years to be even close to being considered in the top 5 of pgs. In no order: Nash (you have NO argument against him), Williams, Paul, Rondo, Parker, Billups are all better right now. Are you even sure he will be better than Brandon Jennings? Will he be better than Wall? You are a little too high on Rose, especially putting him in front of players that have actually been to the finals multiple times.
I do agree, however, that whoever said they'd rather have Baron Davis or Westbrook over Rose is ridiculous.
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I don't think people are criticizing Wade. I think people are questioning annointing this team.
That being said, I give them two titles in five years.
Next year they don't have the pieces.
Years 2-5, they are probably the favorites going into each year. One year they will get an injury. One year they will have a fluke thing happen like a Derrick Fisher shot v. the Spurs, a Reggie Miller 8 points in 8 seconds, or a Scottie Pippen migraine. Then I say they win two of the other years.
I also base that on the Lakers not going out quietly as Kobe retires, Oklahoma City becoming as good of a team as Miami potentially (Westbrook and Durant could honestly challenge Wade and James), and Orlando always being there. Another team like Chicago or Portland could break out too.
I find that statement absurd. I really REALLY like Durant, never understood why Portland screwed up picking Oden over him...he IS one of the top 4 players in the League. But honestly, comparing Westbrook to the second player in that combo is really insulting Wade. Argue that OKC as a team could challenge, Im fine with that...but saying a duo with Westbrook could rival one with Wade and James makes no sense...he isn't even a top 5 pg, maybe not top 8 soon.
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I do agree, however, that whoever said they'd rather have Baron Davis or Westbrook over Rose is ridiculous.
That would be me, and again, all I was doing was reading the assist leaders list.
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That would be me, and again, all I was doing was reading the assist leaders list.
Sorry, I was reading more the response to what you said. Understood.
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OKC is gonna be a force. Westbrook is 21 and going for 16 pts and 8 assists already. That is basically what Wade gave back when he was that age. Wade is more of a scorer so it is not a perfect comparison. In 3 or 4 years you could see Wade declining and Westbrook getting better. I don't think he will ever give what Wade gave in that 2006 Finals, but he is really showing something. He does not need to be a top 5 PG right now or be better than Wade for OKC to really give the Heat trouble. That team is scary.
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OKC is gonna be a force. Westbrook is 21 and going for 16 pts and 8 assists already. That is basically what Wade gave back when he was that age. Wade is more of a scorer so it is not a perfect comparison. In 3 or 4 years you could see Wade declining and Westbrook getting better. I don't think he will ever give what Wade gave in that 2006 Finals, but he is really showing something. He does not need to be a top 5 PG right now or be better than Wade for OKC to really give the Heat trouble. That team is scary.
Okay, gotcha....you were assuming a significant Wade decline somewhat soon and a solid increase from Westbrook. That makes sense. I just dont necessarily agree when I hear people say he has only 3-4 years left at this level. He's got at least 4 and probably 5 and then more years where he will still be a very productive player (see Boston). In my opinion.
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Wrong. Im not as high on Paul as many other are (his team has done nothing even though apparently he is so great)...but it takes more than being a shoot first point guard in his first two years to be even close to being considered in the top 5 of pgs. In no order: Nash (you have NO argument against him), Williams, Paul, Rondo, Parker, Billups are all better right now. Are you even sure he will be better than Brandon Jennings? Will he be better than Wall? You are a little too high on Rose, especially putting him in front of players that have actually been to the finals multiple times.
I do agree, however, that whoever said they'd rather have Baron Davis or Westbrook over Rose is ridiculous.
Wait... what?
Rose is a great player already, and he's only going to improve.
He was the leading scorer among point guards in the NBA, shot about 49 percent from the field (5th among NBA points), had fewer turnovers per game than Rondo, Nash, Williams, Westbrook and Rondo, and played more minutes per game than any but Deron Williams.
As a 21-year-old in his second year. He's only going to get better. Much better.
Will he be better than Brandon Jennings? He's already light years better.
He's a "shoot-first" point guard out of necessity. When you're far and away your team's top scoring option, you shoot first. I'd like to see some of these other guys racking up big assist numbers without a single low-post scorer on their roster.
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Wait... what?
Rose is a great player already, and he's only going to improve.
He was the leading scorer among point guards in the NBA, shot about 49 percent from the field (5th among NBA points), had fewer turnovers per game than Rondo, Nash, Williams, Westbrook and Rondo, and played more minutes per game than any but Deron Williams.
As a 21-year-old in his second year. He's only going to get better. Much better.
Will he be better than Brandon Jennings? He's already light years better.
He's a "shoot-first" point guard out of necessity. When you're far and away your team's top scoring option, you shoot first. I'd like to see some of these other guys racking up big assist numbers without a single low-post scorer on their roster.
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Wrong. Im not as high on Paul as many other are (his team has done nothing even though apparently he is so great)...but it takes more than being a shoot first point guard in his first two years to be even close to being considered in the top 5 of pgs. In no order: Nash (you have NO argument against him), Williams, Paul, Rondo, Parker, Billups are all better right now. Are you even sure he will be better than Brandon Jennings? Will he be better than Wall? You are a little too high on Rose, especially putting him in front of players that have actually been to the finals multiple times.
I do agree, however, that whoever said they'd rather have Baron Davis or Westbrook over Rose is ridiculous.
That argument feels like you're deliberately stacking the deck against Rose. Saying it's hard to judge him based on two years of being a shoot-first point guard when he has no real options to share the ball with, yet indicating he may be behind guys like Jennings and Wall who have half of Rose's experience combined?
Maybe it's unfair of me, but I've never bought into Nash. I think that he was inflated by D'Antoni's system and continues to reap its rewards. I'll admit, I've softened my stance this year after seeing him take the Lakers to Game 6, but if I could pick a point guard right now for one season, Nash would be behind Williams, Paul, Rose, and Rondo. Billups would certainly be in the debate for a season-long campaign, but I think the idea is that if you're looking at long-term, there's really no one in the league that has proven as much as Rose and is near his age. Rondo is three years older than him. Paul 4 years, Williams 5. What will Rose be in 3 years? I'd certainly take him over any of the above if we're factoring age into the equation (just as Wall will have that edge on Rose if he shows up as expected).
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That argument feels like you're deliberately stacking the deck against Rose. Saying it's hard to judge him based on two years of being a shoot-first point guard when he has no real options to share the ball with, yet indicating he may be behind guys like Jennings and Wall who have half of Rose's experience combined?
Maybe it's unfair of me, but I've never bought into Nash. I think that he was inflated by D'Antoni's system and continues to reap its rewards. I'll admit, I've softened my stance this year after seeing him take the Lakers to Game 6, but if I could pick a point guard right now for one season, Nash would be behind Williams, Paul, Rose, and Rondo. Billups would certainly be in the debate for a season-long campaign, but I think the idea is that if you're looking at long-term, there's really no one in the league that has proven as much as Rose and is near his age. Rondo is three years older than him. Paul 4 years, Williams 5. What will Rose be in 3 years? I'd certainly take him over any of the above if we're factoring age into the equation (just as Wall will have that edge on Rose if he shows up as expected).
You are crazy if you are picking Rose over Nash for ONE year. Sure, go ahead and use the "D'Antoni's system" argument against him...but what really is your argument for putting Rose even with that group? And wow are you overstating the age quotient. Wall we have an edge because he is two years younger? Come on, one will have the edge because one will be better than the other for the next 12 years. That simply is not a significant enough of an age difference. If you're starting a franchise you pick the best 'relatively' young player, not just the youngest. Furthermore, I just have never bought into Paul...he's good but when your teams have literally done nothing you do not get to be considered better than Nash, Williams, and Rondo who have all actually lead their teams to success. Paul doesnt even have a good argument over Parker and Billups, except for age.
I was pointing out that Chicago fans have gotten soo amazingly high on Rose they forget there are a lot of very good young point guards out there and he has yet to separate himself enough.
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You are crazy if you are picking Rose over Nash for ONE year. Sure, go ahead and use the "D'Antoni's system" argument against him...but what really is your argument for putting Rose even with that group? And wow are you overstating the age quotient. Wall we have an edge because he is two years younger? Come on, one will have the edge because one will be better than the other for the next 12 years. That simply is not a significant enough of an age difference. If you're starting a franchise you pick the best 'relatively' young player, not just the youngest. Furthermore, I just have never bought into Paul...he's good but when your teams have literally done nothing you do not get to be considered better than Nash, Williams, and Rondo who have all actually lead their teams to success. Paul doesnt even have a good argument over Parker and Billups, except for age.
I was pointing out that Chicago fans have gotten soo amazingly high on Rose they forget there are a lot of very good young point guards out there and he has yet to separate himself enough.
I agree with almost all of your points but I definitely think you are selling Paul short. Sure he was overhyped a bit but he certainly has a good argument over Parker and Billups. Parker and Billups are very good players that were fortunate to find themselves in great situations. Paul has been less fortunate but is a better player.
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I was pointing out that Chicago fans have gotten soo amazingly high on Rose they forget there are a lot of very good young point guards out there and he has yet to separate himself enough.
In fairness to us Chicago fans, why wouldn't we be soo amazingly high on a 21-year-old all-star point guard who ....
- led his position in scoring last year
- appears to be farther along in his game than most of these other guys you mention were at this stage of their careers
- has twice proven he can raise his game in the playoffs
- is a hometown kid made good
- carries himself about as well as a high profile athlete his age can
I mean, if that's not the kind of young player a basketball fan can be excited about, why bother?
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but if I could pick a point guard right now for one season, Nash would be behind Williams, Paul, Rose, and Rondo.
Rondo was fun to watch this postseason. He does lack one critical thing that a PG needs though: free throw shooting. Phil Jackson, in one of his Zen mind games, said when the microphone was on that Boston just gives away games in the fourth quarter. Part of the reason they do not close out games is because their PG cannot shoot free throws. Big weakness.
Rondo brings to the NBA what Dominic James brought to the Big East. It is very good, but I'd put some others ahead of Rondo.
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Rondo was fun to watch this postseason. He does lack one critical thing that a PG needs though: free throw shooting. Phil Jackson, in one of his Zen mind games, said when the microphone was on that Boston just gives away games in the fourth quarter. Part of the reason they do not close out games is because their PG cannot shoot free throws. Big weakness.
And because of that flaw, he becomes less aggressive because he doesn't want to miss throws and cost them games.