For whatever it's worth, MU listed first in this article for Branden Dawson, of course that doesn't mean it came from his mouth in this order.
http://thepaint.net/2010/07/08/2010-king-city-classic-recap/
For the record, these kids all could be lying and don't actually have interests, offers or even had a conversation with these schools but the article lists them anyway.
There were over 300 D1 coaches present?
Wow, I thought MSU was a real possibility for Dawson. Who knows, maybe it changes, but I really hope we get him, especially if he is showing he can hit the three.
As for the comment, I know it was sarcasm, but one of the reasons I think it is understandable to be skeptical of Newbill due to where he is ranked. Like others have said, I think he probably did have an offer, but who knows what kind of conditions are involved in that offer.
Syracuse to me is becoming my personal, most-hated rival in the Big East..and to see their name listed with so many of these recruits makes me want to puke. For all the top talent Syracuse gets each year..do they ever develop any of it into NBA talent?? Carmelo and Johnny Flynn were Top 20 recruits out of high school..Hakim Warrick, don't recall where he was ranked... other than these 3 guys..do they have anybody in the NBA?
Quote from: Ners on July 08, 2010, 09:28:02 PM
Syracuse to me is becoming my personal, most-hated rival in the Big East..and to see their name listed with so many of these recruits makes me want to puke. For all the top talent Syracuse gets each year..do they ever develop any of it into NBA talent?? Carmelo and Johnny Flynn were Top 20 recruits out of high school..Hakim Warrick, don't recall where he was ranked... other than these 3 guys..do they have anybody in the NBA?
Donte Green, Wesley Johnson, Andy Rautins.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2010, 07:33:04 PM
For the record, these kids all could be lying and don't actually have interests, offers or even had a conversation with these schools but the article lists them anyway.
I know that is a smart-ass, sarcastic comment, but take a look at what is going on between Seton Hall and Jarrod Davis...or what happened a couple of months ago between Quevyn Winters and Baylor.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on July 08, 2010, 09:36:23 PM
Donte Green, Wesley Johnson, Andy Rautins.
Thanks - though I'd be shocked if Rautins sticks..even though the Knicks are thin on talent...all this said..to me it seems that they don't do a very good job developing their players, as they consistently get top talent year in and year out..
Quote from: Ners on July 08, 2010, 09:50:33 PM
.to me it seems that they don't do a very good job developing their players, as they consistently get top talent year in and year out..
How do you figure?
When you get top talent, there not that far away from NBA ready...so what do you want Syracuse to do with them in just one year?
Id say Rautins was developed pretty well. Kris Joseph could very well be a lottery pick next year, he has gotten better every year.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on July 08, 2010, 09:40:03 PM
I know that is a smart-ass, sarcastic comment, but take a look at what is going on between Seton Hall and Jarrod Davis...or what happened a couple of months ago between Quevyn Winters and Baylor.
Why? I don't want to be like Baylor or Seton Hall. I want to above that.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on July 08, 2010, 09:56:41 PM
How do you figure?
When you get top talent, there not that far away from NBA ready...so what do you want Syracuse to do with them in just one year?
Id say Rautins was developed pretty well. Kris Joseph could very well be a lottery pick next year, he has gotten better every year.
That's my point..the bolded part...that given how much top talent they get/that arrives not that far away from NBA ready - you would think they would have more players in the NBA...they basically have 5 players in the last 9 years - Melo, Johnny Flynn, Warrick, Donte Greene and Wes Johnson..I don't think Rautins sticks..
after reading that recap.
where are the tools who say we dont NEED Dawson.
I want him, we need him. Hes a stud.
Seriously. I HATE SYRACUSE!
That frickin' zone does wonders for their offensive display!
Look at the talent Cuse has placed in the NBA since Wade:
Carmelo (2004)
Hakim (2006)
Demetris Nichols (2008)
Darryl Watkins (2008)
Donte Greene (2009)
Jonny Flynn (2010)
Wesley Johnson (2011)
Rautins (2011)
And Marquette's?
Wade (2004)
Diener (2006)
Novak (2007)
Wesley (2010)
Lazar (2011)
Definitely, VERY competitive for MU's class vs. Cuse's.
Also, 1 NBA Finals ring (MU) > 0 (Cuse)
1. Dan Dakich, former IU coach and current radio personality in Indy, has blasted this kid a couple of times. Dawson has been benched quite a few times by his high school coach for having a bad attitude. He has said the kid may be the best pound for pound rebounder he has seen, but he would not want him on his team. (maybe that's why he's not coaching anymore :) )
2. Rumor is that Dawson may attend Findlay Prep next year. Not sure what that would for our chances.
3. Is that how Pittsburghians spell repertoire?
Blog from courier-journal on quite a few prospects. MU listings on a few prospects like Nadir Thorpe and Jermaine Sanders.
http://jodydemling.courier-journal.com/ (http://jodydemling.courier-journal.com/)
Also Riley has got to be loving the access! Good for the kid.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xJCtuZcrZYQ/TDQX9cFFOXI/AAAAAAAAArE/OY_j5Quo9XM/s400/IUfans.jpg)
Thankfully the kid looks like his mother.
Quote from: indeelaw90 on July 09, 2010, 06:07:39 AM
1. Dan Dakich, former IU coach and current radio personality in Indy, has blasted this kid a couple of times. Dawson has been benched quite a few times by his high school coach for having a bad attitude. He has said the kid may be the best pound for pound rebounder he has seen, but he would not want him on his team. (maybe that's why he's not coaching anymore :) )
2. Rumor is that Dawson may attend Findlay Prep next year. Not sure what that would for our chances.
3. Is that how Pittsburghians spell repertoire?
Dan Dakich is cur from the cloth of the Bobby Knight regime..he was a hard nosed player who got every ounce out of his limited physical ability. He flopped miserably as head coach at IU. I suspect he's probably got a little envy of ultra talented kids, and a little bitterness for not being able to execute as a head coach/recruiter for or/of top talent. I'll choose to dismiss his comments..and trust that if Dawson lands at MU, Buzz will reach him effectively and get the most out of the kid.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on July 09, 2010, 12:42:20 AM
after reading that recap.
where are the tools who say we dont NEED Dawson.
I want him, we need him. Hes a stud.
Umm...you can start right here. I'll be the first to say we don't NEED Dawson. If Dawson picks Purdue, I doubt that there will be a tectonic shift that leads to Marquette's campus falling into Lake Michigan. If Dawson goes to Indiana, that doesn't prevent a team led by Blue, DJO, Jones, Wilson, etc from challenging for a Final Four or maybe even the national title in two years. If Dawson chooses Michigan State, I have faith that Buzz can continue to put up quality rosters that can earn 10+ wins in the Big East year after year, just as we have since we first joined the conference. And if Dawson chooses Georgetown, I will still go to the BC to watch Marquette basketball, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
I want Dawson to come to Marquette. I think he could be a very good player here and accomplish a great deal. But saying "OMFG, we NEED him, all life on earth will cease to exist if we don't sign him", well, that's simply not true about any player. No player is bigger than Marquette, and Marquette basketball will go on with or without him.
I think Etan Thomas is still in the NBA.
The thing about the zone is that it helps them recruit big men. If you're 7' tall, why wouldnt you want to be the middle of the 2-3 zone and sit back and block shots? Take a look at Scout and look at all the PF and C that are interested in them.
Warrick was the 100th ranked player on Scout. Rautins was 'NR' with interest from essentially Div II schools (according to Scout). Do you remember Wes Johnson at Iowa State? I dont. After two years at Syracuse, he went from unknown to No.4 overall in the draft. I also dont recall Kris Joseph doing anything as a freshman. After his soph year, he might leave early next year.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 09, 2010, 09:11:01 AM
Thankfully the kid looks like his mother.
I'm shocked he isn't still running the sidelines like a maniac on a sugar high...
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on July 09, 2010, 09:34:48 AM
I think Etan Thomas is still in the NBA.
The thing about the zone is that it helps them recruit big men. If you're 7' tall, why wouldnt you want to be the middle of the 2-3 zone and sit back and block shots? Take a look at Scout and look at all the PF and C that are interested in them.
Warrick was the 100th ranked player on Scout. Rautins was 'NR' with interest from essentially Div II schools (according to Scout). Do you remember Wes Johnson at Iowa State? I dont. After two years at Syracuse, he went from unknown to No.4 overall in the draft. I also dont recall Kris Joseph doing anything as a freshman. After his soph year, he might leave early next year.
With the talent Cuse gets year in, year out..their track record for sending talent to the league is pretty weak. Wes Johnson has long been consiered a talent and was highly regarded out of Texas as a high schooler...thank you though for continuing to be the MuScoop resident Syracuse fan..MU and Cuse should continue to hook up in great games in the next 4 years ahead. Hopefully we get a little payback on y'all for the near misses in the last few years.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on July 09, 2010, 09:34:48 AM
I think Etan Thomas is still in the NBA.
The thing about the zone is that it helps them recruit big men. If you're 7' tall, why wouldnt you want to be the middle of the 2-3 zone and sit back and block shots? Take a look at Scout and look at all the PF and C that are interested in them.
Warrick was the 100th ranked player on Scout. Rautins was 'NR' with interest from essentially Div II schools (according to Scout). Do you remember Wes Johnson at Iowa State? I dont. After two years at Syracuse, he went from unknown to No.4 overall in the draft. I also dont recall Kris Joseph doing anything as a freshman. After his soph year, he might leave early next year.
Zone probably also helps to recruit white shooting guards that would not be quick enough to play man to man.
Quote from: bilsu on July 09, 2010, 10:19:17 AM
Zone probably also helps to recruit white shooting guards that would not be quick enough to play man to man.
I honestly think that Syracuse's exclusive use of zone defense hurts their player development.
Quote from: Stone Cold on July 09, 2010, 06:50:38 AM
Also Riley has got to be loving the access! Good for the kid.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xJCtuZcrZYQ/TDQX9cFFOXI/AAAAAAAAArE/OY_j5Quo9XM/s400/IUfans.jpg)
I heard he received a vote for the MVP award too. Wonder where it came from...
Quote from: Ners on July 09, 2010, 10:19:06 AM
With the talent Cuse gets year in, year out..their track record for sending talent to the league is pretty weak. Wes Johnson has long been consiered a talent and was highly regarded out of Texas as a high schooler...thank you though for continuing to be the MuScoop resident Syracuse fan..MU and Cuse should continue to hook up in great games in the next 4 years ahead. Hopefully we get a little payback on y'all for the near misses in the last few years.
Im not sure why you are trying to compare Syracuse to say, UNC or UK. They arent. But they are the only school to place lottery picks in the last 2 drafts.
Lottery picks since 2000
Etan Thomas - 2000
Carmelo Anthony - 2003
Jonny Flynn - 2009
Wes Johnson - 2010
Likely lotto in future - Fab Melo
And yes, I am a pseudo Syracuse fan. If you spent 2 years living in Ithaca attending Cornell, you would be too. While it was nice that the city of Ithaca built fences along the bridges to deter students from killing themselves (highest suicide rate outside of the universities in Alaska), there still isnt anything to do other than study. Taking trips to Cuse to watch basketball was a nice (and necessary) escape.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on July 09, 2010, 10:46:26 AM
And yes, I am a pseudo Syracuse fan. If you spent 2 years living in Ithaca attending Cornell, you would be too. While it was nice that the city of Ithaca built fences along the bridges to deter students from killing themselves (highest suicide rate outside of the universities in Alaska), there still isnt anything to do other than study. Taking trips to Cuse to watch basketball was a nice (and necessary) escape.
I spent a week Ithaca this past summer at a friend's wedding (he and his wife are both Cornell alums). We started every morning at Collegetown Bagels and spent the majority of the day hiking and exploring. As an outdoor person I would have my summers spoken for in Ithaca... but I could see there being nothing to do besides drink like a Wisconsinite during the winter.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on July 09, 2010, 10:46:26 AM
Im not sure why you are trying to compare Syracuse to say, UNC or UK. They arent. But they are the only school to place lottery picks in the last 2 drafts.
Lottery picks since 2000
Etan Thomas - 2000
Carmelo Anthony - 2003
Jonny Flynn - 2009
Wes Johnson - 2010
Likely lotto in future - Fab Melo
And yes, I am a pseudo Syracuse fan. If you spent 2 years living in Ithaca attending Cornell, you would be too. While it was nice that the city of Ithaca built fences along the bridges to deter students from killing themselves (highest suicide rate outside of the universities in Alaska), there still isnt anything to do other than study. Taking trips to Cuse to watch basketball was a nice (and necessary) escape.
Not sure where I ever compared Cuse to UNC or Kentucky? But..year in, year out..CUSE gets TOp 50 talent and ultimately not much of it develops. I've never been to Syracuse, but have heard it is pretty GRIM up there.
Quote from: Ners on July 09, 2010, 10:59:44 AM
Not sure where I ever compared Cuse to UNC or Kentucky? But..year in, year out..CUSE gets TOp 50 talent and ultimately not much of it develops. I've never been to Syracuse, but have heard it is pretty GRIM up there.
Top 50 signees:
2005 - Eric Devendorf (Dominic James was top 50 also)
2006 - Paul Harris (bust), Mike Jones (transfered)
2007 - Donte Greene - one and done first round pick; Jonny Flynn - two and done lottery pick
2008 - no top 50 recruits
2009 - no top 50 recruits
So, since 2005, they have sent two of their four top 50 recruits to the first round of the NBA by their sophomore years. I'd say thats pretty good, no?
Top 50 talent "year in, year out?" You sure about that?
There are 60 players drafted every year. I have not counted, but probably 15 of them are foreign players. Being a top 50 high school player is no guarantee that you will play pro ball. Some of them are not big enough or athletic enough to realistically play in the NBA. I suspect if you actually scouted each top 50 player in the 2011 recruiting class you would come up with 15 locks for the pros, 15 because of size and athletic ability have no real chance. The remaining 20 are iffy.
(http://static.businessinsider.com/image/4b9692307f8b9a422a600200/cornell-law-advertisement.jpg)
Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 09, 2010, 10:59:17 AM
I spent a week Ithaca this past summer at a friend's wedding (he and his wife are both Cornell alums). We started every morning at Collegetown Bagels and spent the majority of the day hiking and exploring. As an outdoor person I would have my summers spoken for in Ithaca... but I could see there being nothing to do besides drink like a Wisconsinite during the winter.
Summers are one thing; the school year is another. Ithaca, from October - March, is awful. But the Finger Lakes are great.
Quote from: bilsu on July 09, 2010, 11:26:54 AM
There are 60 players drafted every year. I have not counted, but probably 15 of them are foreign players. Being a top 50 high school player is no guarantee that you will play pro ball. Some of them are not big enough or athletic enough to realistically play in the NBA. I suspect if you actually scouted each top 50 player in the 2011 recruiting class you would come up with 15 locks for the pros, 15 because of size and athletic ability have no real chance. The remaining 20 are iffy.
Exactly. In the 2005 recruiting class, I counted 16 players that were drafted. While Ners doesnt make any logical points, I can only *infer* from his previous posts that he thinks Top 50 talent should go to the NBA. He apparently thinks that top 50 players jumping to the NBA is some sort of an indication as to how good a program is at developing talent. Did Greg Oden really *develop* his game during his one year at OSU? Maybe....but I wouldnt credit Matta for turning him into a lottery pick. Conversely, would I blame MU for not turning James into an NBA player despite being a top 50 player? No. If he stayed for 8 years, it wouldnt have made him any taller.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on July 09, 2010, 12:11:16 PM
Exactly. In the 2005 recruiting class, I counted 16 players that were drafted. While Ners doesnt make any logical points, I can only *infer* from his previous posts that he thinks Top 50 talent should go to the NBA. He apparently thinks that top 50 players jumping to the NBA is some sort of an indication as to how good a program is at developing talent. Did Greg Oden really *develop* his game during his one year at OSU? Maybe....but I wouldnt credit Matta for turning him into a lottery pick. Conversely, would I blame MU for not turning James into an NBA player despite being a top 50 player? No. If he stayed for 8 years, it wouldnt have made him any taller.
Ironically, Marquette's players that are in the pros right now - Novak, Diener, Hayward, Matthews and Wade (by some services) were all Top 100 players. Dominic James is the only one who was Top 100 that isn't in the pros since 2003. Additionally, to my recollection MU hasn't had any other Top 100 players on its roster (since 2003 other than the above and James) until last year with Maymon, Cadougan and Williams. Syracuse..ummm..I'd guess they've had about 20 Top 100 guys on their teams since 2003 (about 2 to 3 per recruiting class since 2003)...what this tells me is that if you are Top 100, much less Top 50 and go to Marquette - you have a far greater chacne of making the NBA, than do you if you go to Syracuse...thus Syracuse doesn't do a very good job with player development..
Quote from: Ners on July 09, 2010, 01:21:30 PM
Ironically, Marquette's players that are in the pros right now - Novak, Diener, Hayward, Matthews and Wade (by some services) were all Top 100 players. Dominic James is the only one who was Top 100 that isn't in the pros since 2003. Additionally, to my recollection MU hasn't had any other Top 100 players on its roster (since 2003 other than the above and James) until last year with Maymon, Cadougan and Williams. Syracuse..ummm..I'd guess they've had about 20 Top 100 guys on their teams since 2003 (about 2 to 3 per recruiting class since 2003)...what this tells me is that if you are Top 100, much less Top 50 and go to Marquette - you have a far greater chacne of making the NBA, than do you if you go to Syracuse...thus Syracuse doesn't do a very good job with player development..
McNeal was RSCI top 100 also.
Quote from: Ners on July 09, 2010, 01:21:30 PM
Ironically, Marquette's players that are in the pros right now - Novak, Diener, Hayward, Matthews and Wade (by some services) were all Top 100 players. Dominic James is the only one who was Top 100 that isn't in the pros since 2003. Additionally, to my recollection MU hasn't had any other Top 100 players on its roster (since 2003 other than the above and James) until last year with Maymon, Cadougan and Williams. Syracuse..ummm..I'd guess they've had about 20 Top 100 guys on their teams since 2003 (about 2 to 3 per recruiting class since 2003)...what this tells me is that if you are Top 100, much less Top 50 and go to Marquette - you have a far greater chacne of making the NBA, than do you if you go to Syracuse...thus Syracuse doesn't do a very good job with player development..
After you incorrectly claimed that Syracuse gets top 50 talent "year-in, year out," you now are expanding the argument to top 100...? Alrighty then.
Additionally, you are using a sample size of 5 and comparing it to 20? Right. Based on your numbers, MU would prob have a greater *percentage* of NBA products than any other school in the country.
And I still dont understand why the NBA is your measurement for development. There have been countless great college players that didnt sniff the NBA for one reason or another. I didnt know that recruiters look at high school players and say to themselves, "Hmmm, this kid looks like he can play high D1 ball, but I question whether his physical attributes will will hinder his opportunity to play in the NBA...I'm not sure I want this kid anymore."
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on July 09, 2010, 01:47:53 PM
After you incorrectly claimed that Syracuse gets top 50 talent "year-in, year out," you now are expanding the argument to top 100...? Alrighty then.
Additionally, you are using a sample size of 5 and comparing it to 20? Right. Based on your numbers, MU would prob have a greater *percentage* of NBA products than any other school in the country.
And I still dont understand why the NBA is your measurement for development. There have been countless great college players that didnt sniff the NBA for one reason or another. I didnt know that recruiters look at high school players and say to themselves, "Hmmm, this kid looks like he can play high D1 ball, but I question whether his physical attributes will will hinder his opportunity to play in the NBA...I'm not sure I want this kid anymore."
Well genius..since you tried to argue that it was so unlilkely or hard for Top 50 kids to make the NBA..it makes your argument even worse if we (or I) did expand it to Top 100. Either way, since you are a Marquette fan first and foremost..and just a latent Syracuse fan - I'm sure you are quite proud of Marquettes track record for turning out NBA talent..given what it has had to work with, right? Furthermore, you recognize MU does a better job than Syracuse in player development, right?
Quote from: Ners on July 09, 2010, 02:07:36 PM
Furthermore, you recognize MU does a better job than Syracuse in player development, right?
I dont know. You certainly didnt convince me one way or the other.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on July 09, 2010, 02:22:54 PM
I dont know. You certainly didnt convince me one way or the other.
Think its time for you to come out of the closet - its okay if Syracuse is your Number 1 team. You are still welcome to post here - but just be real about it...
I don't think there's enough data to establish much of a difference.
Syracuse has had 20 RSCI top 100 players from 2000 to 2009 (Edelin, Forth, Anthony, McNamara, Nichols, Watkins, Roberts, J Wright, D. Wright, Devendorf, Maybin, Mike Jones, Harris, Green, Flynn, Jardine, Jackson, Riley, Mookie Jones & Joseph), and five have made the NBA so far (Anthony, Nichols, Watkins, Green & Flynn).
MU has had 10 top 100 over the same interval (Merritt, Diener, Novak, James, McNeal, Matthews, Mbakwe, Cadougan, Willams & Maymon), three have made it to the NBA so far (Diener, Novak, & Matthews).
MU has had 1 player not in the RSCI top 100 make the NBA over the last 10 years (Wade)
Syracuse has had 2 (Warrick & Johnson)
MU's McNeal and SU's Rautins & McNamara have made summer camps but not yet appeared in a league game.
Quote from: Ners on July 09, 2010, 02:31:06 PM
Think its time for you to come out of the closet - its okay if Syracuse is your Number 1 team. You are still welcome to post here - but just be real about it...
You're too much.
"If you don't agree with my wildly optimistic statements about Marquette, you must not be a true fan!"
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 09, 2010, 03:25:10 PM
You're too much.
"If you don't agree with my wildly optimistic statements about Marquette, you must not be a true fan!"
Well Sultan - Fact is..goodgreatgrand is a Syracuse fan #1...take a long look at the post history..it becomes quite clear...like I said.I have no problem with it..but just don't be in the closet about it...
Quote from: Marquette84 on July 09, 2010, 03:21:24 PM
I don't think there's enough data to establish much of a difference.
Syracuse has had 20 RSCI top 100 players from 2000 to 2009 (Edelin, Forth, Anthony, McNamara, Nichols, Watkins, Roberts, J Wright, D. Wright, Devendorf, Maybin, Mike Jones, Harris, Green, Flynn, Jardine, Jackson, Riley, Mookie Jones & Joseph), and five have made the NBA so far (Anthony, Nichols, Watkins, Green & Flynn).
MU has had 10 top 100 over the same interval (Merritt, Diener, Novak, James, McNeal, Matthews, Mbakwe, Cadougan, Willams & Maymon), three have made it to the NBA so far (Diener, Novak, & Matthews).
MU has had 1 player not in the RSCI top 100 make the NBA over the last 10 years (Wade)
Syracuse has had 2 (Warrick & Johnson)
MU's McNeal and SU's Rautins & McNamara have made summer camps but not yet appeared in a league game.
You are a research machine..what abut Lazar Hayward...where was he ranked in the RSCI?
Quote from: bilsu on July 09, 2010, 10:19:17 AM
Zone probably also helps to recruit white shooting guards that would not be quick enough to play man to man.
As opposed to slow black guards?
Quote from: GOMU1104 on July 08, 2010, 09:56:41 PM
How do you figure?
When you get top talent, there not that far away from NBA ready...so what do you want Syracuse to do with them in just one year?
Id say Rautins was developed pretty well. Kris Joseph could very well be a lottery pick next year, he has gotten better every year.
Really? Joseph has gotten better every year? Yes he improved freshman to sophomore year, but that's as small as you can get in terms of sample size :D
Oh and Syracuse is the most god for saken place on the earth. The world would be a better place if it was wiped from the face of the earth.
Quote from: Stone Cold on July 09, 2010, 06:50:38 AM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xJCtuZcrZYQ/TDQX9cFFOXI/AAAAAAAAArE/OY_j5Quo9XM/s400/IUfans.jpg)
Look at that crowd, and admire their restraint. You just know that their collective egos are thinking about jumping Brad and kicking the crap out of him.