If you consider that Buzz usually has played tweener 3-4 players at the power forward these last few years, Buzz has a pretty balanced team now. 2011 is the first year where it is basically supposed to be his team. The transition was not very smooth, but no one's really is (see Indiana and Kentucky for high profile examples). But here it is, with three scholarships open.
1- Cadougan/Smith
2- DJO/Blue
3- Wilson/Jones
4- Crowder/EWill
5- Otule/Gardner
I look at the roster over and over. I just can't believe we have all that depth and talent. We can watch most of them next week
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 02, 2010, 09:46:18 AM
If you consider that Buzz usually has played tweener 3-4 players at the power forward these last few years, Buzz has a pretty balanced team now. 2011 is the first year where it is basically supposed to be his team. The transition was not very smooth, but no one's really is (see Indiana and Kentucky for high profile examples). But here it is, with three scholarships open.
1- Cadougan/Smith
2- DJO/Blue
3- Wilson/Jones
4- Crowder/EWill
5- Otule/Gardner
Very impressive, and gives Buzz options using those open scholarships to replace Butler, Buycks and Fulce.
I'd like to see him add a defensive power forward to give the team flexibility in matchups. I do like playing essentially a true small forward and a bigger small forward as has been done in the past with Hayward and Butler getting lots of minutes at the four.
Of course, Buzz needs to add another center too. But every year that is basically the case.
I've got to admit, that roster is pretty sick. It's unusual that I look at an MU roster and wonder how I'm going to find enough minutes for all of these quality players. Two years ago we watched 4 guys get 36+ minutes per game. I am very excited!
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 02, 2010, 09:46:18 AM
If you consider that Buzz usually has played tweener 3-4 players at the power forward these last few years, Buzz has a pretty balanced team now. 2011 is the first year where it is basically supposed to be his team. The transition was not very smooth, but no one's really is (see Indiana and Kentucky for high profile examples). But here it is, with three scholarships open.
1- Cadougan/Smith
2- DJO/Blue
3- Wilson/Jones
4- Crowder/EWill
5- Otule/Gardner
Also balanced in terms of age, if anything weighted toward the young side of things...
Seniors: Crowder, DJO
Juniors: Otule, Williams, Cadougan
Sophomores: Gardner, Wilson, Jones, Blue, Smith
Freshmen: 3 incoming (presumably)
So, in a perfect world, next year's recruit class will have a either a spot up 4/5 or a defensive rebounding machine 4/5, another pg and another wing. (All signed early with 4.0 gpa's in high school and everybody satisfied with their roles and minutes. ::))
Quote from: tower912 on July 02, 2010, 01:41:30 PM
So, in a perfect world, next year's recruit class will have a either a spot up 4/5 or a defensive rebounding machine 4/5, another pg and another wing. (All signed early with 4.0 gpa's in high school and everybody satisfied with their roles and minutes. ::))
I think in a perfect world, it's Branden Dawson, a top 100 PG, and possibly some transfer, either a junior to balance the classes, or DJ Newbill (after prep school) to ease the feelings some of us may have in our stomachs.
Just really, really need another true banger in next year's class in my opinion.
Dawson is not a PG, far from it. Hes a rebounding machiene actually.
But yes, in a perfect world we would snag him and faust for next year
Tokoto in 2012
I think he was saying that he wanted 1. brandon dawson 2. a top 100 PG and 3. a transfer etc. and not that Dawson is a top 100 PG.
yeah got that now
fact remains, we need dawson and it looks like everyone agrees with that.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on July 02, 2010, 05:03:21 PM
fact remains, we need dawson and it looks like everyone agrees with that.
Um...no. Who agrees with that? How is that a fact? Will we be destined for last place if we dont land Dawson?
you are might wana just jump off a bridge if you dont think we need a dominant big man who can rebound to legit contend for titles.
I don't think we need Dawson nearly as badly as we did a week ago. Our wing/forward positions are loaded for the next 3-4 years. Of course, I'd love Dawson and know he would bring a lot to this team, but I think we have bigger priorities.
I think priority #1 is a true pf (6'8+) or a center with athleticism and the ability to block shots and rebound.
#2 is...I don't see a huge amount of needs beyond that. Maybe another wing/2 guard.
#3 is probably a pg to have waiting in the wings if neither Cadougan or Reggie establish themselves as the top pg.
My 2011 recruit wishlist:
1. Mike Shaw
2. Branden Dawson
3. Nick Faust
4. Myles Mack
5. Keith DeWitt
6. Darnell Jackson (I don't know much about him, but he fits the profile of an athletic, long pf---are we in on him?)
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on July 02, 2010, 04:52:31 PM
I think he was saying that he wanted 1. brandon dawson 2. a top 100 PG and 3. a transfer etc. and not that Dawson is a top 100 PG.
Thanks for clarifying that. Exactly what I meant, but in retrospect I can see how it could be confusing :)
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on July 02, 2010, 05:41:33 PM
you are might wana just jump off a bridge if you dont think we need a dominant big man who can rebound to legit contend for titles.
Dawson isnt a big man. Hes a 6'5" SF who just happens to be a damn good rebounder for his size.
Again...not everyone agrees that we NEED him as you said. If we dont get him, will we challenge DePaul for the bottom of the league?
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 02, 2010, 09:46:18 AM
If you consider that Buzz usually has played tweener 3-4 players at the power forward these last few years, Buzz has a pretty balanced team now. 2011 is the first year where it is basically supposed to be his team. The transition was not very smooth, but no one's really is (see Indiana and Kentucky for high profile examples). But here it is, with three scholarships open.
1- Cadougan/Smith
2- DJO/Blue
3- Wilson/Jones
4- Crowder/EWill
5- Otule/Gardner
I posted this in another thread and it fits here. To see how well Buzz has done, turn the argument around. If Buzz was not cheating "chaos" with the roster, here is what half our roster would be (assuming no one changed their mind since April 1 2008) ...
Pat Hazel
Mbao
Roseboro
Newbill
Reggie Smith
With the offense running through Maymon (per his father's wishes).
Also on the team would be (as they were in place on April 1, 2008):
Butler
Fulce
Mbawke
Scott C.
Ty Taylor
Two other recruits (you can pick from DJO, JJ, Blue, Crowder, EW, Junior, Dwight B and Outle)
If this was our team, We'd be looking at a second consecutive 4 and 12 season and Buzz would be on his way out.
Everyone wins with our changes ... even the recruits run off ... they are in better situations for them.
Thankfully Buzz is able to change.
This team is going to be awesome to watch.
I don't want to place expectations too high for next year but it should at least be exciting to watch all of this talent.
2011 should be exciting.
Quote from: MUSF on July 03, 2010, 10:31:52 AM
This team is going to be awesome to watch.
I don't want to place expectations too high for next year but it should at least be exciting to watch all of this talent.
2011 should be exciting.
Finally, we agree on something. I've posted several times on here that I think the 2011-2012 team might be the most talented team EVER at MU. Now, having said that I'm sure some (not you) will be quick to say Buzz didn't do a good coaching job if the 2011-2012 team doesn't win a National Championship. However, if DJO stays for his senior year (which some laugh at the notion that he could be an early entry candidate), and this year's freshman class develops well, add in Jamil Wilson - we very easily could be a Final Four caliber team.
Quote from: Ners on July 03, 2010, 10:53:13 AM
We very easily could be a Final Four caliber team.
If so, and I'm not disputing this, we should sign signs of it next season (2010). The only difference in 2011 will be another year of matrurity and Wilson.
Quote from: Ners on July 03, 2010, 10:53:13 AM
Finally, we agree on something. I've posted several times on here that I think the 2011-2012 team might be the most talented team EVER at MU. Now, having said that I'm sure some (not you) will be quick to say Buzz didn't do a good coaching job if the 2011-2012 team doesn't win a National Championship. However, if DJO stays for his senior year (which some laugh at the notion that he could be an early entry candidate), and this year's freshman class develops well, add in Jamil Wilson - we very easily could be a Final Four caliber team.
I don't know if I would go as far as to say the most talented ever, but you may be right. Of course some of the old timers around here that were fans in the 70s will never concede that point. That is the fun part about debating sports.
As for the not so fun part, may we continue to agree to disagree. :)
God I love looking at that Scholarship Table now!
Im not sure what gave your dumbass the impression that not getting dawson means we are bottom of the league
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on July 04, 2010, 12:33:51 AM
Im not sure what gave your dumbass the impression that not getting dawson means we are bottom of the league
Here is what you said:
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on July 02, 2010, 05:03:21 PM
fact remains, we need dawson and it looks like everyone agrees with that.
We dont NEED him. By saying that we NEED him, and that EVERYONE AGREES WITH THAT, you imply that we are SOL if we dont get him.
Quote from: Ners on July 03, 2010, 10:53:13 AM
Finally, we agree on something. I've posted several times on here that I think the 2011-2012 team might be the most talented team EVER at MU. Now, having said that I'm sure some (not you) will be quick to say Buzz didn't do a good coaching job if the 2011-2012 team doesn't win a National Championship. However, if DJO stays for his senior year (which some laugh at the notion that he could be an early entry candidate), and this year's freshman class develops well, add in Jamil Wilson - we very easily could be a Final Four caliber team.
I think next year's team is going to be fantastic, and can't even imagine how much fun it will be to see this team in 2011-12. As long as Cadougan can develop as a point, ball-handling is solid, and Smith can provide some minutes off the bench, this team could easily be a Final Four contender (http://images.pesfan.com/smilies/cool.gif)
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 04, 2010, 08:38:04 AM
I think next year's team is going to be fantastic, and can't even imagine how much fun it will be to see this team in 2011-12. As long as Cadougan can develop as a point, ball-handling is solid, and Smith can provide some minutes off the bench, this team could easily be a Final Four contender (http://images.pesfan.com/smilies/cool.gif)
I think that all depends on if someone can step up and be the go to guy, star, leader of this team. Jimmy is the obvious choice but he will have to prove that he is ready to fill that role vacated by Lazar.
Either way, this team will be very fun to watch. I will keep my expectations a little lower than Final Four contender though.
Quote from: MUSF on July 04, 2010, 12:05:45 PM
I think that all depends on if someone can step up and be the go to guy, star, leader of this team. Jimmy is the obvious choice but he will have to prove that he is ready to fill that role vacated by Lazar.
Either way, this team will be very fun to watch. I will keep my expectations a little lower than Final Four contender though.
Well, I'm hoping to contend for the Final Four the year after this...but if DJO has a Wade-like second season, it's not impossible to imagine this year. That being said, that's high expectations for any player.
That still in absolutly no way implies that we will be down with DePaul. Overall dumb comment. We need a big to contend for the title, Pitt handled us last year with MCghee, freaking Mcghee.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on July 04, 2010, 12:46:36 PM
That still in absolutly no way implies that we will be down with DePaul. Overall dumb comment. We need a big to contend for the title, Pitt handled us last year with MCghee, freaking Mcghee.
Ok...and it was dumb of you to say that we NEED Dawson, and that EVERYONE AGREED WITH THAT. Again, what happens if we dont get Dawson, if we NEED him so bad? You havent answered that yet...
Once again, Dawson isnt a big...hes a 6'5" SF.
And for the record, McGehee killed us because our guards couldnt stop there penetration, so help had to come from somewhere...leaving McGehee wide open for dunk after dunk. He only had 5 rebounds that game.
and Pitt overall handled us with there size.
What happens if we dont have a guy like Dawson who can rebound at will
Lopez twins 2.0
Washington all over again
Gtown thrashing
We can play with the big boys. We just need size and rebounding to consistently beat them. We were far better than St.Johns but they hung around twice with us because they had rebounders.
When 3 deep at PG and wing----will be hard to attract a top recruit at those positions.
I think Ners is right on most talented team ever if you are talking number of talented players. Going back through the historic rosters, I don't believe any team had as strong a top EIGHT players as the 2011-12 team will have.
I believe the 2012 bench could clearly be stronger than the benches even on the Final Four teams.
In 1974, it was all the starting 5 (Lucas, Ellis, Washington, Walton and Tatum), while 77 was really the old 3 1/2 star rule (Lee, Ellis, Whitehead with Boylan as the unselfish half star) and 2003 was the same (Wade, Jackson, Diener and either a still improving Novak or Merritt).
I think there are only nine teams in MU history that go even SIX deep with the 2012 roster (2002, 1996, 1994, 1983, 1979, 1972, 1955, 1938 and 1922), and the 2012 team is not only EIGHT deep but clearly better than all of those teams except 1955 and 1972.
The only problem I see is potential trouble convincing a star 2012 recruit that he is going to play right away unless he is a stud C/PF, but even if we don't land one of them and Otule or Gardner don't develop how I hope they will, the reason I don't believe a big team will grind us like Pitt or Gtown did this year is that now we have enough bodies to run opposing bigs into the ground and just keep throwing more bodies at them.
Agreed, we don't NEED anything to make a deep run in 2012, but even one big PF/C would be unreal.
Quote from: MUSF on July 03, 2010, 10:31:52 AM
This team is going to be awesome to watch.
I don't want to place expectations too high for next year but it should at least be exciting to watch all of this talent.
2011 should be exciting.
I love some good Kool Aid but its really hard to put high expectations on this team. I understand the "talent" or number of stars but the only player that is proven is Jimmy. DJO needs to be better than last season. Junior hasn't proven his ability. Nor has Otule, Fulce, EWill, Buycks, and every incoming freshmen. Odds are that we will be better but I am treating this season like the last two. Cautiously optimistic. I am not really sure what kind of team we have.
Most talented team ever was the 1976 team.
Whitehead
Ellis
Tatum
Lee
Walton
Toone
Rosenberger
Payne
Butrym
Neary
C Whitehead sophomore vs Otule sophomore edge Whitehead
PF Ellis Junior vs Butler senior big edge to Ellis
SF Tatum senior vs Blue freshmen edge to Tatum
SG Lee sophomore DJO junior edge to Lee
PG Walton senior vs Cadougan sophomore big edge to Walton
Through Bernard Toone and you have 6 players that played in the NBA on that team.
Rosenberger was a very good outside shooter, who would have excelled at the three point shot. Ulice Payne was also a very good player. Both were drafted in the 9th round by the NBA.
2011-2012 Wilson replaces Butler is still no match for 1976 team.
Quote from: bilsu on July 05, 2010, 04:43:13 PM
Most talented team ever was the 1976 team.
Whitehead
Ellis
Tatum
Lee
Walton
Toone
Rosenberger
Payne
Butrym
Neary
C Whitehead sophomore vs Otule sophomore edge Whitehead
PF Ellis Junior vs Butler senior big edge to Ellis
SF Tatum senior vs Blue freshmen edge to Tatum
SG Lee sophomore DJO junior edge to Lee
PG Walton senior vs Cadougan sophomore big edge to Walton
Through Bernard Toone and you have 6 players that played in the NBA on that team.
Rosenberger was a very good outside shooter, who would have excelled at the three point shot. Ulice Payne was also a very good player. Both were drafted in the 9th round by the NBA.
2011-2012 Wilson replaces Butler is still no match for 1976 team.
I think I agree with your analysis. The 1976 team was awesome. But thr fact that we are discussing the potential of the current team in the same sentence means that there is plenty to look forward to with these kids.