MUScoop

I voted for "I'd rather have Wilson"

I voted for "Wait to reserve judgement because undoubtedly the whole story hasn't yet come to light."

Oh wait....

I'd like the Newbill vote to have more options.  If Newbill was told all along that he was possibly (likely?) the odd man out or would need to prep for a year, I'd rather have Wilson.  If he was blind sided by this, I'd rather that Marquette honor its commitment to Newbill.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm thrilled Wilson is on the team.  He's a great player and I'm looking forward to great things from him.  But I really don't want Marquette to blind side kids and revoke their scholarships before they even come to school.

My vote goes to "This is pointless until we hear from the kid himself."

Put it this way, we survived years with much worse teams and less talented players then the current team + Newbill.  He should of kept Newbill.  Just my worthless opinion folks.

Quote from: NCMUFan on July 01, 2010, 07:48:18 AM
Put it this way, we survived years with much worse teams and less talented players then the current team + Newbill.  He should of kept Newbill.  Just my worthless opinion folks.

Next poll should be "Who gets recruited over next year?"

The 13 best player is not going to play no matter who it is. Newbill would have been happy being the 13th best player. On the other hand , Wilson who will redshirt would also have been happy to be the 13th best player. I voted for Newbill, but I thinl if Buzz planned to over recruit him he should have never signed him in the 1st place.

I think we should have another pole. Who is better?

Newbill who got dropped by MU or Gasser(Gasner) who was signed by UW.
That pole should stir up our UW buddies.

Quote from: TheButlerDidIt on July 01, 2010, 08:03:47 AM

Next poll should be "Who gets recruited over next year?"

If Buzz isn't always out trying to make the team better by recruiting over everyone on the team, he shouldn't have his job.  Sounds cold, but that's the nature of the beast. 

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on July 01, 2010, 08:12:15 AM
If Buzz isn't always out trying to make the team better by recruiting over everyone on the team, he shouldn't have his job.  Sounds cold, but that's the nature of the beast. 

+1

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on July 01, 2010, 08:12:15 AM
If Buzz isn't always out trying to make the team better by recruiting over everyone on the team, he shouldn't have his job.  Sounds cold, but that's the nature of the beast. 

It's just that our roster is in constant upheaval. Unfortunately, as Marquette fans, our last two summers have been more newsworthy than our last two months of March. Our roster does look fantastic now, but if Marquette continues to have messy divorces, we should at least have some Sweet 16s to be cheering about.

Quote from: jhags15 on July 01, 2010, 08:14:34 AM
+1

At first blush this sounds right. However, college sports is no longer idealistic. Just look at the Big 10 trying to destroy the Big East and Big 12 by recruiting football schools. When coaches started getting paid millions of dollars college basketball turned into a business. Is the world better than it was. No, it is what it is. I am not sure what Buzz makes, but it is probably a million dollars more than he will make doing anything else. Crean probably makes 2 million more than he would be doing anything else. Whether we like it or not they have to compete hard or lose these big paychecks. Their job is actually to beat other people and they get paid big dollars to do that. How noble is that?

Quote from: TheButlerDidIt on July 01, 2010, 08:17:44 AM
It's just that our roster is in constant upheaval. Unfortunately, as Marquette fans, our last two summers have been more newsworthy than our last two months of March. Our roster does look fantastic now, but if Marquette continues to have messy divorces, we should at least have some Sweet 16s to be cheering about.

You are right and I was a bit flip with my remark. 

Many other posters have said it, but there is a fine line between making the team better by recruiting ever better talent and casting aside kids that don't pan out as expected.  I am by no means advocating pushing kids out of the program...but if Buzz brings in better players, and the guys on the team who will see their playing time reduced or eliminated decide to seek greener pastures, that's just the way it is.

Not saying that's what happened here because it's not.  I just think we all have to get used to the idea that there will be attrition if Buzz is truly building a top program, especially in the early years.  At some point, I would expect that it will slow down but probably never stop. 

Unfortunately for us as fans, we never really know the real story so there's always room for speculation and those offended/impacted by the outcome will be the ones that set the tone of that speculation. 

I'm waiting to see what Jerry Palm thinks about all this.

There needs to be more options before I vote.  Further, until I hear the TRUTH from both sides of the story, I can't vote.  And since the truth will never come from Marquette's side, the poll is essentially worthless. 

First of all let me say that i think there are alot of facts that are yet to come out and may never come out. But the whole thing seems fishy...not saying Mu is perfect....just seems very fishy.  

beyond that I have one simple question.... and maybe i will add a poll...but the question is... of the 2000+/- in coming freshman intending to attend MU in September how many of them have yet to fill out or send in their applications?

I voted for Newbill option.  I am a huge supporter of Buzz and I love the way he has upgraded the talent around here but I am getting a very uneasy feeling about the way he is doing it.  Maybe its the only way to have highly competitive team. Maybe he is doing everything honestly and on the up and up. Maybe I am just plain naive but there is a lot of puffs of smoke around Buzz during his short tenure.  Allegations from fan bases outside of typical rodent hatred.  The way things played out with Roseboro, Maymon, Acker and now DJ.  The huge blow up against Mac out of nowhere.  Everything in and by itself can be dismissed easily with pointed fingers that it was all their fault but when you start adding everything up, I for one think we are walking a very fine line between doing things the right way and doing things to win and being okay with some casualties along the way.  As we all know, the Universities always get the brunt of any wrongdoings with coaches usually finding another job fairly quickly.  Now I am saying there are any wrongdoings going on but I can't say that I am happy with what is being said about MU and Buzz after every one of these instances.  Just my 2 cents.  

I am surprised the poll is as close as this.  I was expecting 90-10 not 60-40.

Jamil makes us better.  Period.  Great job Buzz

Quote from: mufanatic on July 01, 2010, 10:04:48 AM
I voted for Newbill option.  I am a huge supporter of Buzz and I love the way he has upgraded the talent around here but I am getting a very uneasy feeling about the way he is doing it.  Maybe its the only way to have highly competitive team. Maybe he is doing everything honestly and on the up and up. Maybe I am just plain naive but there is a lot of puffs of smoke around Buzz during his short tenure.  Allegations from fan bases outside of typical rodent hatred.  The way things played out with Roseboro, Maymon, Acker and now DJ.  The huge blow up against Mac out of nowhere.  Everything in and by itself can be dismissed easily with pointed fingers that it was all their fault but when you start adding everything up, I for one think we are walking a very fine line between doing things the right way and doing things to win and being okay with some casualties along the way.  As we all know, the Universities always get the brunt of any wrongdoings with coaches usually finding another job fairly quickly.  Now I am saying there are any wrongdoings going on but I can't say that I am happy with what is being said about MU and Buzz after every one of these instances.  Just my 2 cents.  

You are indeed incredibly naive...

I will attempt to adress these big issues of yours in a common logic non conspiracy theory manner.

1. Acker.... Buzz has been given a once in a lifetime job and will be fired if he losses too many games n possibly never get a head coaching job a agin.  He has a top 50 PG coming in and 2 others on the roster that can play it in a pinch.  he wants to use the scolly of a PG who rarely played and did badly when he did the year before who also happens to be finishing his degree ( acker).   Wow!!  not a big deal.....now a revisionist or only someone with your foresight could no Junior was going to get hurt and Acker would have a solid year.  Not to mention Acker had some legal issues.  but if you want to hold that whole issue against Buzz as him be ing bad or shady then yes you are incredibly naive.

2. Roseboro came to campus and was outclassed in every single aspect and also decided he did not want to work that hard.  He chose to leave.  Buzz did not force him out.  Yous was even worse that rosebora and Buzz did not run him off before the season.  Kids mistakenly take the best offer they get and that is not always the best thing to do.  Roseboro was over his head and for better or for worse realized it and bailed.  Look at Acker he went toa  lowere level program and lit those boys up at ball State and then came to Mu and the BE and was way over his head until he was a 5th year senior.  The talent levels of a Ball stae and the teams they play versus the BE is almost unfathomable.  A kid can look like a future NBA'er like Acker at one level and look bad at the next.  The fact that roseboro did nothing at St Bonnies indicates how terribly outclassed he would have been at MU.  Mu's mistake for offering him but no way they would run him off after he was on campus without giving him a year especuilly when you cannot even fill his spot...simply illogical and moronically naive.  

3.  maymon was Starting and getting alot of minutes etc... he quit the team...seriously you put that on Buzz who was clearly going out of his way to heap praise and support a kid who was clearly strugglin with the transition and not deserving of the praise or minutes he was getting.... wow have you ever been on a sports team or coached one...do you know anything about sports psychology?   you are incredibly naive!!!!!


4. MAc  again are you freaking serious!!!???  I have never coached D1 bball and would not ever intend to know the pressures or agonies of coaching at the levle and how i would react if i felt an announcer was attacking one of my players who i just went to war with.  But i have coached alot of BBall and i know how he feels to a lesser degree ....but a game is a game and a team is a team and when i am coaching my team my heart is in it and i feel the same way for my kids.  And i have told my parents and anyone else....do not come up to me and want to discuss something after a game...for at least 1/2 an hour....especially after loss.  You are asking to get blown up on ...coach is at a fever pitch... i cant even guess how many nights i have lost sleep after a tough loss or seeing a locker room full of tears , etc. etc.  Incredibly difficult time to give an interview ....just google sports coaching blowups or something.  And you are going to hold Buzz to a different standard of about any other coach!!!!!?????   you have never coached!!  Give Buzz the credit for apologizeing...that is something other coaches dont do.


Your post was one of the worst posts i have ever read and i will write it off to being incredibly naive becuase no one can be that stupid.

Quote from: Canadian Dimes on July 01, 2010, 10:29:16 AM
You are indeed incredibly naive...  Cool I appreciate your honesty.
Here is how I see it. 

1. Acker.... Buzz has been given a once in a lifetime job and will be fired if he losses too many games n possibly never get a head coaching job a agin. So win at any and all costs? He has a top 50 PG coming in and 2 others on the roster that can play it in a pinch.  he wants to use the scolly of a PG who rarely played and did badly when he did the year before who also happens to be finishing his degree ( acker).   Wow!!  not a big deal.....now a revisionist or only someone with your foresight could no Junior was going to get hurt and Acker would have a solid year.  Not to mention Acker had some legal issues.  but if you want to hold that whole issue against Buzz as him be ing bad or shady then yes you are incredibly naive.
This is the way I see it.  Don't need Acker, need the scholarship.  Acker you should leave the team.  Oh man.  Junior is out for the year and I don't have a true PG.  Acker sorry about that, we need you and you need us, problem solved.

2. Roseboro -Way too easy to say all his fault and he didn't want to work hard.  Also easy to say he chose to leave when he was told before classes even start you're not going to play.  Most coaches would have either not offered the scholarship(familiar pattern developing) or redshirted him.  Yous was worse but was oozing with way more potential.  Also very similar to DJ situation with disparaging coaches comments.  And you talking about Roseboro being outclassed at St. Bonnies does not make me jump with glee.  How could Buzz misjudge talent that badly??? 
3.  Maymon –   You are funny Hayward.  Been on teams, coached teams.  Hate that Maymon was a quitter but it sure looked like Buzz made some promises he wasn't keeping.  Again, one instance is not a big deal.  MULTIPLE IS A STARTING TO BECOME A BIG DEAL!!!!  
4. MAc  again are you freaking serious!!!???    Yes I am serious.  Mac asked an innocent question, didn't attack anyone and got blasted for no reason.  Its not that often that a head coach of a high major program has to apologize for his horrible actions but it was bad enough that he had too.  Unfortunately part of the coaches responsibilities is to answer questions after the game win or lose.  I hold him to same standard as every other coach.   Again one instance is no big deal but there is a pattern appearing that is trending towards a slippery slope.  AND YOU HAYWARD ARE ONE OF THE WORST POSTERS ON THIS BOARD PERIOD!!!!!!! ALL YOU LIKE TO DO IS ATTACK AND INSULT OTHERS WHILE HIDING BEHIND STUPID SCREEN NAMES THAT YOU CHANGE EVERY FEW MONTHS .  EASY TO BE ANONYMOUS AND ACT CHILDISH AND STUPID WHEN YOU CAN HIDE.  I WILL CHAULK YOU UP TO YOU JUST BEING PLAIN STUPID BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT NAIVE!!!! 

Acker was back on the team before Cadougan got injured.  Both of you are remembering it wrong.

Quote from: Ready2Fly on July 01, 2010, 11:11:13 AM
Acker was back on the team before Cadougan got injured.  Both of you are remembering it wrong.

don't let facts confuse an otherwise entertaining argument

You guys are also forgetting the small trouble acker got in (maryj) that was a big reason for him leaving I believe.

This is a truly silly thread with lots of opinions by folks who have no factual information and are otherwise clueless.

Quote from: Nukem2 on July 01, 2010, 12:56:27 PM
This is a truly silly thread with lots of opinions by folks who have no factual information and are otherwise clueless.

+1

Wilson, hands down.

As someone that has MU alumni plates, I would rather the school be committed to Newbil. If I was Buzz, I would probably sign Wilson because at the end of the day my job depends on winning.

I don't blame Buzz but I hate how this board worships him. He is a good recruiter and probably a good person but NO ncaa d-1 coach is a saint. There will always be stuff behind the scenes we don't want to hear about.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 01, 2010, 01:08:38 PM
As someone that has MU alumni plates, I would rather the school be committed to Newbil. If I was Buzz, I would probably sign Wilson because at the end of the day my job depends on winning.

I don't blame Buzz but I hate how this board worships him. He is a good recruiter and probably a good person but NO ncaa d-1 coach is a saint. There will always be stuff behind the scenes we don't want to hear about.

I'm surprised how much this poll is in favor of signing Wilson.  Without question I would prefer that we honored our commitment to Newbill.  Buzz's job isn't anything like close to jeopardy, nor will it be for the forseeable future, not to mention that this particular recruit will have very little effect on it in the end. 

Even in a strict basketball sense, not honoring a commitment in this manner could have enough consequences on future recruiting that it could dwarf the relative talent differential between Newbill and Wilson.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 01, 2010, 01:08:38 PM
As someone that has MU alumni plates, I would rather the school be committed to Newbil. If I was Buzz, I would probably sign Wilson because at the end of the day my job depends on winning.

I don't blame Buzz but I hate how this board worships him. He is a good recruiter and probably a good person but NO ncaa d-1 coach is a saint. There will always be stuff behind the scenes we don't want to hear about.

Everybody wants to eat steak but nobody wants to see how the cow gets butchered.

Quote from: MUSF on July 01, 2010, 02:14:18 PM
Everybody wants to eat steak but nobody wants to see how the cow gets butchered.

wow...I must say, "well done."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im9gqooss_w

Quote from: jhags15 on July 01, 2010, 08:14:34 AM
+1

-1

"recruiting over" and cutting a kid before the first day of practice are two totally different things.

Quote from: MUSF on July 01, 2010, 02:14:18 PM
Everybody wants to eat steak but nobody wants to see how the cow gets butchered.

That's one way of looking at it. But your statement only goes so far. We all want to win, but when do we cross the line? There is no black or white line with recruiting. When does the steak become not worth it? I could say no one likes to pollute, but we still drive SUVs. Does that make it right or when should we give up our SUVs?

Disclaimer- Not saying MU does this stuff, just saying your argument is subjective.
Tell me when I should stop:
Getting your players to recruit other players
Pushing players out when others become available
Admitting players who aren't up to par academically
Admitting players who have criminal records
Sending signals that there is room for a player already on another team
Turning a blindeye on players getting help from boosters
Getting someone else to take SATs

Everyone wants championships, but how much are you willing to compromise your programs integrity. MU has been pretty good, but I want them to become elite when it comes to running the program the right way.

I don't blame Buzz, but I just wish it didn't happen.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 01, 2010, 02:51:22 PM
That's one way of looking at it. But your statement only goes so far. We all want to win, but when do we cross the line? There is no black or white line with recruiting. When does the steak become not worth it? I could say no one likes to pollute, but we still drive SUVs. Does that make it right or when should we give up our SUVs?

Disclaimer- Not saying MU does this stuff, just saying your argument is subjective.
Tell me when I should stop:
Getting your players to recruit other players
Pushing players out when others become available
Admitting players who aren't up to par academically
Admitting players who have criminal records
Sending signals that there is room for a player already on another team
Turning a blindeye on players getting help from boosters
Getting someone else to take SATs

Everyone wants championships, but how much are you willing to compromise your programs integrity. MU has been pretty good, but I want them to become elite when it comes to running the program the right way.

I don't blame Buzz, but I just wish it didn't happen.

I agree with you.  I wasn't trying to make an argument or trying to imply that what Buzz and MU did in this case was right or wrong.  I was just attempting to sum up what I see as the reality of the situation.  My synical guess is that these types of things happen more often than people realize but are usually managed by PR machines to prevent fans from seeing the proverbial cow being butchered.

I have problems with how this APPEARS to have been handled but I am also not naive enough to think that similliar situations don't happen across college sports on a consistent basis, and have probably happened at MU. 

You're right, where is the line?  That is an honest question.  It is a slippery slope we college sports fans often find ourselves on.  Is it fair/right for athletes to get accepted to a university that would not accept them as a general student?  Is it okay to take risks on kids with character issues because they have talent?  Is it right to recruit more athletes than a school has scholarships to keep those players from attending other schools?  All of these things happen and are largely accepted as long as teams are winning.

I want to see MU win and I don't want MU to break the rules to do it.  I also don't want MU to be perceived as more shady than the norm.  Alot of that has to do with PR and image management.  Buzz didn't break the rules but it APPEARS that we are getting awfully close to being perceived as a program that pushes the limits of the grey area.  I think Buzz needs to learn from this and tighten up the ship a little bit. 

LOL, anyone that does statistics or polling for a living knows this poll got rigged big time in the last few hours.

About 4 hours ago the second answer was ahead by about 14%.  It now trails by almost 50%.  LOL.


A lot of dead people voting apparently.

Quote from: MUSF on July 01, 2010, 03:15:28 PM
I agree with you.  I wasn't trying to make an argument or trying to imply that what Buzz and MU did in this case was right or wrong.  I was just attempting to sum up what I see as the reality of the situation.  My synical guess is that these types of things happen more often than people realize but are usually managed by PR machines to prevent fans from seeing the proverbial cow being butchered.

I have problems with how this APPEARS to have been handled but I am also not naive enough to think that similliar situations don't happen across college sports on a consistent basis, and have probably happened at MU. 

You're right, where is the line?  That is an honest question.  It is a slippery slope we college sports fans often find ourselves on.  Is it fair/right for athletes to get accepted to a university that would not accept them as a general student?  Is it okay to take risks on kids with character issues because they have talent?  Is it right to recruit more athletes than a school has scholarships to keep those players from attending other schools?  All of these things happen and are largely accepted as long as teams are winning.

I want to see MU win and I don't want MU to break the rules to do it.  I also don't want MU to be perceived as more shady than the norm.  Alot of that has to do with PR and image management.  Buzz didn't break the rules but it APPEARS that we are getting awfully close to being perceived as a program that pushes the limits of the grey area.  I think Buzz needs to learn from this and tighten up the ship a little bit. 

Probably the best post I've seen in a while about seeing both sides and the reality of college sports.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2010, 03:28:40 PM
LOL, anyone that does statistics or polling for a living knows this poll got rigged big time in the last few hours.

About 4 hours ago the second answer was ahead by about 14%.  It now trails by almost 50%.  LOL.


A lot of dead people voting apparently.

Its a Buzz led conspiracy... Scoop has been compromised!

Quote from: StillAWarrior on July 01, 2010, 07:45:20 AM
I'd like the Newbill vote to have more options.  If Newbill was told all along that he was possibly (likely?) the odd man out or would need to prep for a year, I'd rather have Wilson.  If he was blind sided by this, I'd rather that Marquette honor its commitment to Newbill.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm thrilled Wilson is on the team.  He's a great player and I'm looking forward to great things from him.  But I really don't want Marquette to blind side kids and revoke their scholarships before they even come to school.

+100

Quote from: CTWarrior on July 01, 2010, 02:12:12 PM
I'm surprised how much this poll is in favor of signing Wilson.  Without question I would prefer that we honored our commitment to Newbill.  Buzz's job isn't anything like close to jeopardy, nor will it be for the forseeable future, not to mention that this particular recruit will have very little effect on it in the end. 

Even in a strict basketball sense, not honoring a commitment in this manner could have enough consequences on future recruiting that it could dwarf the relative talent differential between Newbill and Wilson.

That's because it's compromised. There was about a 14% lead a few hours ago and since then you've had it swing nearly 60 points, that just doesn't happen.  Granted, it's a small sample size but the culprit wasn't very smart in how he did it.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2010, 03:45:51 PM
That's because it's compromised. There was about a 14% lead a few hours ago and since then you've had it swing nearly 60 points, that just doesn't happen.  Granted, it's a small sample size but the culprit wasn't very smart in how he did it.

Or it could be all the diehards who are on all the time were against it and voted within 5 minutes, but the more casual fans who are on once a day and don't care much for how things happen as long as we win voted for Wilson as this poll was out longer.

Basically if you had a poll on a band's website that was...Would you give your kidney for backstage passes? The 20 people consistently on would say yes, but as more casual fans vote it would obviously be no.

Quote from: TheButlerDidIt on July 01, 2010, 02:17:14 PM
wow...I must say, "well done."

Your wit is rare.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2010, 03:28:40 PM
LOL, anyone that does statistics or polling for a living knows this poll got rigged big time in the last few hours.

About 4 hours ago the second answer was ahead by about 14%.  It now trails by almost 50%.  LOL.


A lot of dead people voting apparently.

Thanks for this Chicos.  This makes me feel better.  I looked at the numbers and thought I cannot believe there is such a lack of integrity out there.

(http://i46.tinypic.com/wjx4k4.jpg)

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 01, 2010, 03:28:40 PM
LOL, anyone that does statistics or polling for a living knows this poll got rigged big time in the last few hours.

About 4 hours ago the second answer was ahead by about 14%.  It now trails by almost 50%.  LOL.


A lot of dead people voting apparently.

Not sure about that, Chicos, but I am not happy with the choices offered in the "poll.".  I think there should have been two more options offered.  So, faced with the  forced choices, I did choose number two.

Secondly, in the spirit of his professed (or at least perceived) practice of "cura personalis," I think it is incumbent upon Buzz to share with the fan base his explanation of the details surrounding the replacing of Newbill on the roster with Wilson.