Something doesn't smell right. There has to be more to this story than what has been reported. I highly doubt this whole business of Buzz dumping Newbill for Wilson happened as currently being reported.
First, the only "statement" I have seen to this point is from Philly Coach. If things went down according to his post, it goes against everything Buzz has said about how he treats people. So either Buzz is a big phony or there is a lot more to the story.
Second, Buzz' prior comments about one or more committed players going prep, rumors about a player transferring in, everyone supposedly being aware of their roll in the process, etc. lead to the conclusion that this was a planned occurrence.
Third, there were a lot of strange twists and turns in the Wilson recruitment last year. I don't think Buzz would simply through a player under the bus to take on another potential JMay situation.
There has just got to be more to the story.
There you go again, using some logic and rational. Just go with raw emotion and don't wait for all of the facts. :)
Perhaps....we'll find out soon enough. What troubles me, however, is if Newbill was going to Prep School, why wasn't that mentioned by any of Buzz's comments after the LOI was signed. Seems an awfully big nugget to not include.
I'm sure more will come out in the coming days.
I just point back to Roseboro. He was told he wasn't MU material and look what he did at St. Bonaventure with those charges and injuries and numbers. Maybe Buzz just did what was best for the team and saw a character flaw or just realized an error that should never have been made
Quote from: jhags15 on June 30, 2010, 12:33:54 AM
I just point back to Roseboro. He was told he wasn't MU material and look what he did at St. Bonaventure with those charges and injuries and numbers. Maybe Buzz just did what was best for the team and saw a character flaw or just realized an error that should never have been made
Very possible, but then Buzz needs to get more involved in recruiting then. If the accounts here are accurate, this is the second Pennsylvania player in the last two years that we signed apparently on the assistant coaches of MU's evaluations that Buzz later didn't like and buzz cut (if it's true) before enrolling in the Fall Semester.
It's obvious what happened here. A poster who has been totally and 100% confirmed as not only DJ Newbill's high school coach, but also his most trusted confidant since childhood, has decided to indulge the rest of the nation in the knowledge that Newbill has been unceremoniously excused from the program through the ever-infallible online internet forum method rather than taking the news to a newspaper, radio station, television, magazine, The Warrior or O'Donnell Hall communal bathroom wall.
What part don't you understand? Why must you be so quick to judge?
Quote from: SacWarrior on June 30, 2010, 12:55:26 AM
It's obvious what happened here. A poster who has been totally and 100% confirmed as not only DJ Newbill's high school coach, but also his most trusted confidant since childhood, has decided to indulge the rest of the nation in the knowledge that Newbill has been unceremoniously excused from the program through the ever-infallible online internet forum method rather than taking the news to a newspaper, radio station, television, magazine, The Warrior or O'Donnell Hall communal bathroom wall.
What part don't you understand? Why must you be so quick to judge?
Interesting post. Other than being right about the internet becoming the king of news media, I have no idea what you just tried to say.
Quote from: Ruby on June 30, 2010, 01:01:45 AM
Interesting post. Other than being right about the internet becoming the king of news media, I have no idea what you just tried to say.
pretty sure that was "teal" without actually being teal...
Quote from: socrplar125 on June 30, 2010, 01:03:36 AM
pretty sure that was "teal" without actually being teal...
I refuse to use teal. It ruins the point of sarcasm
Quote from: SacWarrior on June 30, 2010, 12:55:26 AM
It's obvious what happened here. A poster who has been totally and 100% confirmed as not only DJ Newbill's high school coach, but also his most trusted confidant since childhood, has decided to indulge the rest of the nation in the knowledge that Newbill has been unceremoniously excused from the program through the ever-infallible online internet forum method rather than taking the news to a newspaper, radio station, television, magazine, The Warrior or O'Donnell Hall communal bathroom wall.
What part don't you understand? Why must you be so quick to judge?
It's Newbill's coach. Check his email address, and then compare that to the myspace page found by entering said email address into a google search. Check out the myspace page: it's Newbill's coach.
And he's absolutely correct on what happened here. Wilson becoming available meant it was suddenly a "big deal" that Newbill hadn't sent in his application. Whoever said they would have completed everything but the signature for Blue was 100% correct.
Quote from: socrplar125 on June 30, 2010, 01:03:36 AM
pretty sure that was "teal" without actually being teal...
Agreed. There is an art to being sarcastic, and using teal completely ruins it. It makes you read a post with a silly tone, meaning the sarcasm and counter-intuitive nature of the comment don't have the intended effect.
Teal is lame.
I find it funny that all of a sudden there are like 4 or 5 new names backing "phillicocoach." Pretty convenient time to make a new account and say all this stuff.
I could look a coach's name up and make a username under that email address as well. If you really want me to, I'll find Tim Maymon's email and make a name "Madisondad" and come on here claiming I'm not 100% crazy and living through my son.
Something is very fishy/there are some big time phonies pulling through on here right now.
Quote from: MarkCharles on June 30, 2010, 01:49:06 AM
Agreed. There is an art to being sarcastic, and using teal completely ruins it. It makes you read a post with a silly tone, meaning the sarcasm and counter-intuitive nature of the comment don't have the intended effect.
Teal is lame.
Amen, brother, amen.
I doubt if we will be getting recruits out of the Philly/penn. area any time soon, ala Newbill and Roseboro!!
I doubt we'll ever know the full story here. At least there's not going to be anything from MU other than saying "Marquette and DJ Newbill have decided to part ways. We wish DJ nothing but the best in the future."
He was qualified*. He was working his ass off (IIRC there was a video of his gym workout floating around). He seemed like a good kid.
Why his application wasn't completed, and why he wasn't signed up for the IWB Pro-Am are questions we'll never really know the answers to.
The speculation is that it was to make room for Wilson. But we'll never really know the answer.
* http://www.philly.com/dailynews/breaking/sports/20100201_Strawberry_Mansion_star_picks_Marquette.html
"Newbill, an honor-roll student who already has qualified for freshman eligibility..."
Quote from: wadesworld on June 30, 2010, 02:10:10 AM
I find it funny that all of a sudden there are like 4 or 5 new names backing "phillicocoach." Pretty convenient time to make a new account and say all this stuff.
I could look a coach's name up and make a username under that email address as well. If you really want me to, I'll find Tim Maymon's email and make a name "Madisondad" and come on here claiming I'm not 100% crazy and living through my son.
Something is very fishy/there are some big time phonies pulling through on here right now.
That was exactly what I was thinking was going on. Guy could just be doing that right now to keep us convinced
So for those that think Buzz is in the right. What possible scenario could explain this? I don't want to rush to judgments but it seems obvious that Buzz saw an upgrade and took it.
If he was fully qualified, and wanted to come (was never told he would have to go prep to work on his game) , then that is disappointing. MU's staff should have been all over him to get his app in.
Quote from: PE8983 on June 30, 2010, 08:25:13 AM
If he was fully qualified, and wanted to come (was never told he would have to go prep to work on his game) , then that is disappointing. MU's staff should have been all over him to get his app in.
What if they were?
Quote from: SacWarrior on June 30, 2010, 01:23:03 AM
I refuse to use teal. It ruins the point of sarcasm
Love it, if it makes you feel better it was pretty obvious.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 30, 2010, 08:24:36 AM
So for those that think Buzz is in the right. What possible scenario could explain this?
What if the first sentence out of whatever coach was calling Newbill every week for the last 3 months since he signed his LOI was "Hey, where's your application?"
Quote from: SacWarrior on June 30, 2010, 01:23:03 AM
I refuse to use teal. It ruins the point of sarcasm
Same here. I have been railing against the use of teal, since the use of teal began. If you can't effectively deliver or pick up sarcasm, you deserve whatever embarrassment you may suffer.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 30, 2010, 08:24:36 AM
So for those that think Buzz is in the right. What possible scenario could explain this? I don't want to rush to judgments but it seems obvious that Buzz saw an upgrade and took it.
If you don't want to rush to judgements, why are you?
What if DJ got a better offer...? Maybe he was waiting to hear from someone himself!
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on June 30, 2010, 08:29:02 AM
What if the first sentence out of whatever coach was calling Newbill every week for the last 3 months since he signed his LOI was "Hey, where's your application?"
Even then I'm not sure that is grounds for release. It would make it better but still probably just an excuse. Is there a deadline on this app? I'm sure he would have got it in by the deadline. He's going to be a freshmen in college, of course he is waiting for the last minute.
"What if they were?"
If MU was all over him to get his app in, and he didn't do it, then maybe he had 2nd thoughts about coming, or decided he didn't want to go to prep school.
If Forster's and PhillyCoach's versions are real, then something else is still going down since a prep school destination for a recruit has been known for a while.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 30, 2010, 08:31:31 AM
If you don't want to rush to judgements, why are you?
I'm willing to get others opinion, but I don't see a way it could be a positive for MU. That's why I'm asking others and open-minded about it.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 30, 2010, 08:33:12 AM
Even then I'm not sure that is grounds for release. It would make it better but still probably just an excuse. Is there a deadline on this app? I'm sure he would have got it in by the deadline. He's going to be a freshmen in college, of course he is waiting for the last minute.
Hell, by waiting until January to commit to MU, he was already behind the application/admissions curve.
http://www.marquette.edu/student/ugrad/admissionoverview.shtml
QuoteMarquette has a formal application deadline of December 1.
You know, what the hell? I just looked at that Milwaukee Pro-Am thread, and saw PhillyCoach's comments. Could we get real for a minute? Every other MU player is on that list, but DJ Newbill supposedly never heard of it, until PhillyCaoch saw it posted here? Then he comes back with....
"talked to dj and he wants to play. Wants to know what site does he need to go on to sign up for the pro am"
People are taking this nameless faceless internet poster at his word, and claiming this thing doesn't pass the smell test from MU's perspective. Good Grief.
BTW, I'm not sure if Philly Coach just happened to go out of his way to mention anywhere in the last couple days (more than once) that DJ was going to be at MU on July 7th just before the Jamil Wilson news became public. Interesting coincidence.
Get a grip people.
Do we have any history on when late signings usually turn in apps? Is this highly unusually for late recruits to not apply until the summer?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 30, 2010, 08:42:47 AM
You know, what the hell? I just looked at that Milwaukee Pro-Am thread, and saw PhillyCoach's comments. Could we get real for a minute? Every other MU player is on that list, but DJ Newbill supposedly never heard of it, until PhillyCaoch saw it posted here? Then he comes back with....
"talked to dj and he wants to play. Wants to know what site does he need to go on to sign up for the pro am"
People are taking this nameless faceless internet poster at his word, and claiming this thing doesn't pass the smell test from MU's perspective. Good Grief.
Get a grip people.
Bingo! Could be his 14 year old brother for all we know. (Not that I know he has a 14 year old brother....just sayin)
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 30, 2010, 08:42:47 AM
You know, what the hell? I just looked at that Milwaukee Pro-Am thread, and saw PhillyCoach's comments. Could we get real for a minute? Every other MU player is on that list, but DJ Newbill supposedly never heard of it, until PhillyCaoch saw it posted here? Then he comes back with....
"talked to dj and he wants to play. Wants to know what site does he need to go on to sign up for the pro am"
People are taking this nameless faceless internet poster at his word, and claiming this thing doesn't pass the smell test from MU's perspective. Good Grief.
Get a grip people.
It's not just Newbil, there just a lot of reasons why this doesn't come out squeaky clean. At the very best, Buzz recruited a guy late and then the guy is replaced by an incoming transfer within 12 hours of him opening his recruitment. Even if this is prearranged, it's 1.) another guy that Buzz recruited that wasn't good enough to play on the team, 2.) was a guy who couldn't get eligible, or 3.) a guy we lost due to transferring.
I just don't see any good reason for a recruit to leave.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 30, 2010, 08:44:01 AM
Do we have any history on when late signings usually turn in apps? Is this highly unusually for late recruits to not apply until the summer?
For what it's worth, there doesn't seem to be any problem with Crowder & Gardner. Gardner's even signed up for the Pro-Am.
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on June 30, 2010, 08:46:27 AM
Bingo! Could be his 14 year old brother for all we know. (Not that I know he has a 14 year old brother....just sayin)
Even if the coach is who he says he is, that doesn't mean he's been in the loop on everything.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 30, 2010, 08:49:00 AM
I just don't see any good reason for a recruit to leave.
So, what specifically is the bad in this situation?
Just reading this board I can tell you in a general sense with a high degree of certainty what probably happened here...Wilson expressed an interest in transferring
to MU, and I suspect Buzz and staff had an inkling from the very beginning for whatever specific reason that Newbill would not ultimately end up here. The Wilson development, forced decision time, and that decision was Newbill not coming to MU, opening the door for Jamil Wilson.
Had Wilson not entered the picture, Newbill maybe would have enrolled at MU, maybe would have gone to prep school, maybe would have done something entirely different. There are plenty of players recruited by MU who would love to come here, but can't because scholarships are offered to better players. The fact that this happened in late June, doesn't change the numbers game. It is perhaps unfortunate for Newbill, but I think it is incredibly naive to think that he and his actions or situation, whatever they may have been, did not somehow play a role in this.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 30, 2010, 09:03:26 AM
There are plenty of players recruited by MU who would love to come here, but can't because scholarships are offered to better players. The fact that this happened in late June, doesn't change the numbers game.
How many of these other recruits signed LOI?
From a public relations stand point it would have been much better to cut the ties before a transfer shows up. Would not change the fact that it stinks in the first place, but if Newbill was out the same time Mbao was out then it would not have looked like either one was dropped, because we would have had an open scholarship at that point.
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on June 30, 2010, 08:46:27 AM
Bingo! Could be his 14 year old brother for all we know. (Not that I know he has a 14 year old brother....just sayin)
But I think Brad Forster spoke with Stan Laws (the person PhillyCoach claims to be) and heard the same story. Brad has interviewed Laws in the past and knows him. So, even if you don't think PhillyCoach is legit, the same information is coming from Stan Laws who is legit.
I'm not saying that they are providing both sides of the story or that their information is accurate. You can doubt that he's telling the truth of you want, but it seems pretty clear that he is who he says he is.
I am hoping to hear another side of the story soon. The version we have heard thus far is troubling and I'm really hoping that there is a logical explanation. I'm happy that Jamil is coming because I think he's a good player and will bring a lot to the program. I just hope we didn't screw DJ to make room.
Who's brad forester?
Could your brother from a different mother.
The marvelous part of this entire thread is that I have comrades in the fight against teal. I used to feel so alone. I hated teal, but was so scared to come out and say it. Now I feel empowered. I am kicking teal to curb. Teal is pathetic.
In other news, I am proud to say that I have recently employed magenta as my color of choice in demonstrating sarcasm.
Quote from: MUCam on June 30, 2010, 10:05:47 AM
The marvelous part of this entire thread is that I have comrades in the fight against teal. I used to feel so alone. I hated teal, but was so scared to come out and say it. Now I feel empowered. I am kicking teal to curb. Teal is pathetic.
In other news, I am proud to say that I have recently employed magenta as my color of choice in demonstrating sarcasm.
Is this suppose to be in teal?
Quote from: MUCam on June 30, 2010, 10:05:47 AM
The marvelous part of this entire thread is that I have comrades in the fight against teal. I used to feel so alone. I hated teal, but was so scared to come out and say it. Now I feel empowered. I am kicking teal to curb. Teal is pathetic.
In other news, I am proud to say that I have recently employed magenta as my color of choice in demonstrating sarcasm.
I'm with you all the way.
Gentlemen: Phillycoach is exactly who he says he is.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 30, 2010, 10:20:44 AM
Gentlemen: Phillycoach is exactly who he says he is.
That's great, but in no way does that mean everyone should be accepting his version of things as gospel.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 30, 2010, 10:38:12 AM
That's great, but in no way does that mean everyone should be accepting his version of things as gospel.
So, back to the question raised to your post earlier... how many other recruits that "would love to come here, but can't because scholarships are offered to better players" sign a legally binding (for the player at least) letter of intent to come here and then can't because scholarships are offered to better players?
It seems odd that a coach in the know is asking about the pro-am league, asking about if Buzz is going to have an elite camp, etc, on this board. If he is so connected and in the loop, why is he asking questions like this on this board? It doesn't add up.
And he lost his coaching job, during the season, because the administrator was jealous of him? Please....
Something isn't right, but the wrong may not be coming from MU's side. I will wait a couple of weeks or more until we have more info. Buzz has said all along that someone was going prep. Maybe it became official now and that is hard to swallow. But somehow I think someone on DJ's side knew this was going on as a possibility. Okay, I'll wait now for some more info before deciding on this....
Quote from: TJ on June 30, 2010, 10:49:25 AM
So, back to the question raised to your post earlier... how many other recruits that "would love to come here, but can't because scholarships are offered to better players" sign a legally binding (for the player at least) letter of intent to come here and then can't because scholarships are offered to better players?
Again, you are willing to jump to the conclusion that a better player wanting to come to MU is the only factor that led to this. Do you know that? Do you know that Newbill wasn't already on thin ice for some reason before Wilson was given the option/decided to transfer to MU? Do you know that he wasn't made aware of this possibility before he signed the LOI? If so, let's hear it. To conclude otherwise, is necessarily to assume that Buzz and staff were dishonest with him or simply don't value honoring commitments. Whatever evidence there is to support this would be useful in convincing me.
Maymon had obvious issues that led to his dismissal, and it obviously became pretty evident that Yous and Roseborro simply weren't going to be good enough to play in the Big East. Why is a coach being honest about these situations viewed as a bad thing?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 30, 2010, 10:59:16 AM
Again, you are willing to jump to the conclusion that a better player wanting to come to MU is the only factor that led to this. Do you know that? Do you know that Newbill wasn't already on thin ice for some reason before Wilson was given the option/decided to transfer to MU? Do you know that he wasn't made aware of this possibility before he signed the LOI? If so, let's hear it. To conclude otherwise, is necessarily to assume that Buzz and staff were dishonest with him or simply don't value honoring commitments. Whatever evidence there is to support this would be useful in convincing me.
Maymon had obvious issues that led to his dismissal, and it obviously became pretty evident that Yous and Roseborro simply weren't going to be good enough to play in the Big East. Why is a coach being honest about these situations viewed as a bad thing?
I'm just quoting you... you said "There are plenty of players recruited by MU who would love to come here, but can't because scholarships are offered to better players." That is a misleading statement, as 99.99% of those recruits you refer to have not had a formal agreement with the school and a signed LOI. My first post was not jumping to conclusions; it was asking you to clarify that misleading statement. I should have phrased it better I guess.
As to the other reasons you offered, "simply not good enough to play in the Big East" is not an acceptable reason for me before the guy even gets to school. And if that is the reason, there are now 3 kids in the last two recruiting classes that Buzz has signed and then changed his mind on - is that not evidence of a trend and a problem to you? Moreover, if a LOI is going to be legally binding for the player, why in the world is the player not offered the same protections back? We agreed to give him a spot at MU when he signed; without a mutual agreement,we shouldn't be able to back out just because we no longer feel he's good enough. (And since you mentioned it, I don't think just telling a kid as he's signing that we might want out is acceptable either.)
I don't know what happened here. I know it looks bad so far, but I agree that all the facts aren't out. Unfortunately, none of the possible reasons for the release that have been speculated here make me think positively about MU, just varying degrees of poor judgement.
As a huge Buzz fan and MU season ticket holder for over 20 years I will wait until the official word comes and we get the other side of this story. For the moment though, this sure sounds disappointing. I don't really know Buzz but I have met him a few times and listened to him talk many times about the way he treats people. From everything I have heard from Coach Buzz this would seem to be totally out of character. If it turns out that we really burned this kid just to get another player, I will actually be a bit heartbroken.
Poor judgment by university leadership at MU these days certainly isn't limited to the men's basketball program.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 30, 2010, 10:20:44 AM
Gentlemen: Phillycoach is exactly who he says he is.
Since there have been several questions, I wanted to reiterate this. I don't usually like to "out" people from their alias, but Phillycoach has told you exactly who he is.
Quote from: MUCam on June 30, 2010, 10:05:47 AM
The marvelous part of this entire thread is that I have comrades in the fight against teal. I used to feel so alone. I hated teal, but was so scared to come out and say it. Now I feel empowered. I am kicking teal to curb. Teal is pathetic.
You've got more supporters than you think. I also don't use smileys.
Quote from: MUCam on June 30, 2010, 10:05:47 AMIn other news, I am proud to say that I have recently employed magenta as my color of choice in demonstrating sarcasm.
Should this be magenta? [No winking smiley here!]
I think we're looking way to deep into this thing.
At the end of the day, who would you rather have on your roster, Jamil Wilson or DJ Newbill?
Yes Newbill was a good hardworking kid, but in the end, doesn't talent really matter? It's about putting out that roster on opening day that really counts, because in reality, this is Buzz's job, and if he doesn't put out a winning team day in and day out, he's out of here.
It's unfortunate to see players getting "ran out", but it happens all of the time in D1 basketball.
Quote from: MUHoopsfan6 on June 30, 2010, 11:26:36 AM
As a huge Buzz fan and MU season ticket holder for over 20 years I will wait until the official word comes and we get the other side of this story. For the moment though, this sure sounds disappointing. I don't really know Buzz but I have met him a few times and listened to him talk many times about the way he treats people. From everything I have heard from Coach Buzz this would seem to be totally out of character. If it turns out that we really burned this kid just to get another player, I will actually be a bit heartbroken.
I agree with virtually all of this. Regardless of how it all really happened, Buzz comes off looking like he's not as committed to the young men as young men as he talks about. He's done a great job of presenting success in basketball as his number two priority at MU, well after developing true men. I still have faith in what he does, how he approaches life and the impact he has/will have on Marquette, but I can't deny that with the info out there so far, he's gone down a notch in how I perceive him.
As I sit here, the only scenario that I'll feel comfortable with is that MU didn't push Newbill to submit his application because the AD always felt that prep school was going to be the way to go, and that Newbill tried but was unable to change their minds. Still, the timing of Wilson's signing and Newbill's departure combine to leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Quote from: JPapi2525 on June 30, 2010, 12:35:39 PM
I think we're looking way to deep into this thing.
At the end of the day, who would you rather have on your roster, Jamil Wilson or DJ Newbill?
Yes Newbill was a good hardworking kid, but in the end, doesn't talent really matter? It's about putting out that roster on opening day that really counts, because in reality, this is Buzz's job, and if he doesn't put out a winning team day in and day out, he's out of here.
It's unfortunate to see players getting "ran out", but it happens all of the time in D1 basketball.
So you believe that institutions are under no obligation - moral, legal or otherwise - to honor the commitments they make to 19 year old kids? Of course, 19 year old kids should be held to a higher standard, so their part of the agreement is binding.
Here's the situation... player A is believed to be at talent level X and commits to an institution of that level before his senior year of high school. If it turns out that maybe he was not really level X, but level X-1, the school can dump him with no other reason given. Now, if he ends up showing that he's really at level X+1, he's stuck and has to honor his LOI regardless of what other options are now available to him. Obviously there are situations where the school waives the LOI, but they are under no obligation to do so.
If I were advising a talented recruit, I would tell him to verbal, but never sign no matter what. It seems to provide no benefit whatsoever to the recruit.
Quote from: TJ on June 30, 2010, 02:31:41 PM
So you believe that institutions are under no obligation - moral, legal or otherwise - to honor the commitments they make to 19 year old kids? Of course, 19 year old kids should be held to a higher standard, so their part of the agreement is binding.
Here's the situation... player A is believed to be at talent level X and commits to an institution of that level before his senior year of high school. If it turns out that maybe he was not really level X, but level X-1, the school can dump him with no other reason given. Now, if he ends up showing that he's really at level X+1, he's stuck and has to honor his LOI regardless of what other options are now available to him. Obviously there are situations where the school waives the LOI, but they are under no obligation to do so.
If I were advising a talented recruit, I would tell him to verbal, but never sign no matter what. It seems to provide no benefit whatsoever to the recruit.
The only thing I would add is that many of these kids aren't 19. Many seniors -- especially early in their senior year -- are 17. When we're talking about juniors, obviously they will be even younger.
Quote from: JPapi2525 on June 30, 2010, 12:35:39 PM
I think we're looking way to deep into this thing.
At the end of the day, who would you rather have on your roster, Jamil Wilson or DJ Newbill?
Yes Newbill was a good hardworking kid, but in the end, doesn't talent really matter? It's about putting out that roster on opening day that really counts, because in reality, this is Buzz's job, and if he doesn't put out a winning team day in and day out, he's out of here.
It's unfortunate to see players getting "ran out", but it happens all of the time in D1 basketball.
Honestly, if the question really is a simple keep DJ or buzzcut him without any other reason but to make room for Wilson I would rather have DJ on the roster. He made a commitment to the team/school/coach who in turn "supposedly" made a commitment back to him. If there is no other reason than talent level of the two people involved, that commitment should be honored. Sorry you used up all your scholarships coach, but you did and you have to live with that.
We don't know 100% of the story, and probably never will, but that's my answer to the simple hypothetical presented.
*** I understand that scholarships are 1 year renewable, and therefore the same answer might not apply if you were to replace DJ in the example with a returning player. But if you're going to commit to giving a scholarship and have a kid sign a LOI, then you should at least honor it for that first year.
Quote from: TJ on June 30, 2010, 02:31:41 PM
So you believe that institutions are under no obligation - moral, legal or otherwise - to honor the commitments they make to 19 year old kids? Of course, 19 year old kids should be held to a higher standard, so their part of the agreement is binding.
Here's the situation... player A is believed to be at talent level X and commits to an institution of that level before his senior year of high school. If it turns out that maybe he was not really level X, but level X-1, the school can dump him with no other reason given. Now, if he ends up showing that he's really at level X+1, he's stuck and has to honor his LOI regardless of what other options are now available to him. Obviously there are situations where the school waives the LOI, but they are under no obligation to do so.
If I were advising a talented recruit, I would tell him to verbal, but never sign no matter what. It seems to provide no benefit whatsoever to the recruit.
Do I think it is wrong to lowball someone, and take back an agreement once made? Of course! Did you want Newbill on the team? Absolutely.
But the fact of the matter is that taking back scholarships is part of the game when it comes to recruiting, and at the end of the day, Buzz and the MU staff is doing what is best for the program. I'm sure Buzz Williams will do everything in his power to help DJ Newbill become successful because that is the type of person Buzz is, but he is also a Division 1 basketball coach who has to make tough decisions for the betterment of the program.
According to a recent IWB post, DJ Newbill knew that he was going to be outside of the bubble since he wanted to commit to MU, the staff fully informed him that they are looking at other options. Jamil Wilson is now that option, leaving Newbill out of the picture unfortunately.
I hope DJ finds a good fit for him, and I wish him the best in the future.
Quote from: JPapi2525 on June 30, 2010, 03:13:32 PM
Do I think it is wrong to lowball someone, and take back an agreement once made? Of course! Did you want Newbill on the team? Absolutely.
But the fact of the matter is that taking back scholarships is part of the game when it comes to recruiting, and at the end of the day, Buzz and the MU staff is doing what is best for the program. I'm sure Buzz Williams will do everything in his power to help DJ Newbill become successful because that is the type of person Buzz is, but he is also a Division 1 basketball coach who has to make tough decisions for the betterment of the program.
According to a recent IWB post, DJ Newbill knew that he was going to be outside of the bubble since he wanted to commit to MU, the staff fully informed him that they are looking at other options. Jamil Wilson is now that option, leaving Newbill out of the picture unfortunately.
I hope DJ finds a good fit for him, and I wish him the best in the future.
I'm curious: would you have a problem with this if there had never been any indication from MU that DJ was "outside of the bubble?" Your second paragraph could be construed to suggest that you wouldn't, but the inclusion of your third paragraph suggests that maybe you would. I think that this makes all the difference in the world.
Guys, you are missing the most important piece of info from Rosiaks blog this morning. Buzz is looking for another walk on, now how the hell is Frozena ever gonna see the court w/ some hot shot from appleton xavier breathing down his neck at the end of the bench. Nuts
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 30, 2010, 03:26:26 PM
I'm curious: would you have a problem with this if there had never been any indication from MU that DJ was "outside of the bubble?" Your second paragraph could be construed to suggest that you wouldn't, but the inclusion of your third paragraph suggests that maybe you would. I think that this makes all the difference in the world.
No I would not have a problem with this move because it is a part of the recruiting process. Although I'm upset with the fact the DJ won't be playing for Marquette this year, it was something that had to be done in Buzz's eyes. Players should know all the possible consequences before making their decision. The reason I added the IWB post reference is because DJ knew there was a possibility he could be gone when he signed his LOI.
Quote from: JPapi2525 on June 30, 2010, 03:42:21 PM
No I would not have a problem with this move because it is a part of the recruiting process. Although I'm upset with the fact the DJ won't be playing for Marquette this year, it was something that had to be done in Buzz's eyes. Players should know all the possible consequences before making their decision. The reason I added the IWB post reference is because DJ knew there was a possibility he could be gone when he signed his LOI.
I just think it's unfortunate that "we won't honor our commitment to you" is one of the possible consequences. I don't think that this is acceptable. Apparently you do. We'll agree to disagree.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 30, 2010, 03:54:52 PM
I just think it's unfortunate that "we won't honor our commitment to you" is one of the possible consequences. I don't think that this is acceptable. Apparently you do. We'll agree to disagree.
Our commitment was contingent from the get-go. What is so hard to understand about that?
It will be easier to shoulder the burden of conscience when a 21 year old sophomore Jamil Wilson is dominating jerks in 2011-2012
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 30, 2010, 03:54:52 PM
I just think it's unfortunate that "we won't honor our commitment to you" is one of the possible consequences. I don't think that this is acceptable. Apparently you do. We'll agree to disagree.
I do agree with you that it is unfortunate, especially for the players and their families. But at the end of the day, it is about winning ball games, and we are more likely to do that will Jamil on the roster opposed to DJ in this certain situation. Like I mentioned before, I wish the best for DJ and his family.
Quote from: wyoMUfan on June 30, 2010, 03:59:36 PM
It will be easier to shoulder the burden of conscience when a 21 year old sophomore Jamil Wilson is dominating jerks in 2011-2012
Agreed. I actually played against Jamil in a summer league game a few years back. I can safely say, I have been posterized by Jamil Wilson.... and it was awesome!
Quote from: JPapi2525 on June 30, 2010, 04:04:31 PM
Agreed. I actually played against Jamil in a summer league game a few years back. I can safely say, I have been posterized by Jamil Wilson.... and it was awesome!
Nothing like getting posterized at the wisc lutheran gym to really make you enjoy your summer vacation. right...
Quote from: Ready2Fly on June 30, 2010, 03:58:49 PM
Our commitment was contingent from the get-go. What is so hard to understand about that?
That's easy to understand and as I've said repeatedly, I don't have a problem with that.
I had asked Jpapi2525 if he would have a problem with pulling the scholarship even if MU had not been up front about the fact that Newbill was outside the bubble (i.e., the commitment was contingent). I understood JPapi2525 to be saying that he doesn't have a problem with pulling a scholarship offer even if the commitment is
not contingent because "it is a part of the recruiting process." I have a problem with that. (If I misunderstood his position, I apologize, but it seems clear).