MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: GoldenWarrior on June 16, 2010, 04:12:29 PM
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I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on this officer's use of force (punching the 17 year old girl directly in the face).
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2638
Personally, I think it's a bit excessive. Yes, the full circumstance isn't fully shown in the video, but I still don't think this was appropriate.
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Can't have citizens pushing around cops.
Pepper spray would have been better but it was obvious no respect was shown toward law enforcement and they physically assaulted the officer.
That said, this will only turn out bad for the officer, he should have kept his cool especially over j walking, that's just stupid.
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I don't really see an assault on the officer. Yes, they were clearly not listening to the officer and causing a problem, but I didn't see a punch or slap thrown his way. The 17 yr old stepped in the break the grip the officer had on the suspect and did seem to give a slight shove which to some may be assault, but I don't think it is in this instance.
Wrongs done by both parties if you ask me, but really? Over J walking?!
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Any grabbing of a police officer is deemed assault. (I think) While it is unfortunate that the person on the receiving end of this is a 17 yr old girl, but I don't really see any problem in his actions. He has no way of knowing what the intentions are of the girl or the people that are intervening. It would have been very easy for someone to grab at his gun in all the commotion.
*I should note that my father was a police officer for 35+ years, so that may influence my opinions.
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I feel bad for the girl because I think the punch was excessive.
But... I think I can honestly say that I will go my entire life without getting punched in the face by a cop.
Coincidence? Probably not. I've never laid my hands on a cop, and I never will.
Don't want to get punched? Don't mess with a cop. I know life isn't that simple, but sometimes it is.
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I am happy the officer did what he did. One girl was getting in the way of an arrest and clearly not cooperating. Had he not set some sort of standard, it could have escalated farther.
It is easy to sit back in our chairs and say he should have done this or should have done that, but in the heat of the moment, its not that easy.
Kudos to the police officer, and i really hope this doesn't turn into the next beer summit at the white house.
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Any grabbing of a police officer is deemed assault. (I think) While it is unfortunate that the person on the receiving end of this is a 17 yr old girl, but I don't really see any problem in his actions. He has no way of knowing what the intentions are of the girl or the people that are intervening. It would have been very easy for someone to grab at his gun in all the commotion.
This is correct. Its two on one (at least), they are pushing him and grabbing him, etc. I am guessing department policies would have supported him pulling his gun in that situation, had he deemed it necessary. I have hard time criticizing the cop when the two others were clearly instigating trouble, putting him and others at risk, and breaking the law. As is all too typical, the wrong person is being criticized.
Ditto to the comment that I will never get punched in the face by a cop.
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I'll tell you who needs to get punched in the face....this guy.
(http://www.universalsports.com/mm/Photo/Sports/General/47/81/29/478129_M23.jpg)
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Justified. You don't grab the arm of an officer that's trying to cuff somebody. That's really asking for it.
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Maybe someone will have a beer with him and make it all better
Don't touch a cop...period. Listen to a cop....period.
Was the punch excessive? Probably, but was done in a split second. If she isn't resisting arrest and the other girl not putting her hands and assaulting him (yes, that's an assault)....does she get punched? Nope.
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Probably spill over from the Bay View graduation.
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Totally excessive, he should have tazed the chick instead.
Can't say I feel sorry for the girl. If it was two 17 year old boys that were pushing around a cop, I doubt there would be too many questions.
BTW...in other odd cop news...don't shoot at zombie's in case they turn out to be cops...
http://www.timescall.com/news_story.asp?ID=22351
LONGMONT — A man who fired four shots at a Longmont police officer who tried to arrest him on May 8 told investigators later that he believed he was being pursued by a zombie, according to Boulder District Attorney’s Office reports.
Longmont police Officer David Blake returned fire on Brandon Duke near Main Street and Boston Avenue and struck Duke once in the arm and once in the back. Another bullet grazed Duke’s head.
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I fail to understand how she is the victim after not only she resisted a ticket, but grabbed the officer. With the way that she was slapping at him, she should consider herself lucky she wasn't hurt further. But hey she is a 17 year old girl in America, the most power class of individual in our great nation.
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the loss of respect for authority figures continues. note the number of police chases. criminals run from the law, hurt innocent bystanders, it's the cops fault...what if this girl had a weapon, or got a hold of the policeman's gun or other weapon and innocents were harmed?? then it's the cops fault...
sometimes one has to do what he has to do...whale on the bitch and throw her in jail, or what's left of her. time for respect for the law to return. last time i checked, j-walking is against most city ordinances. cops trying to keep citizens safe/fom getting run over by a car. it's the ole "broken window" approach to law enforcement. need to start somewhere
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sometimes one has to do what he has to do...whale on the bitch and throw her in jail, or what's left of her.
Wow... I'm speechless. =/
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sometimes one has to do what he has to do...whale on the bitch and throw her in jail, or what's left of her. time for respect for the law to return. last time i checked, j-walking is against most city ordinances. cops trying to keep citizens safe/fom getting run over by a car. it's the ole "broken window" approach to law enforcement. need to start somewhere
Political bomb deleted: Go Marquette
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Yet you are the same fella showing up at teabagger rallies afraid of the communist boogeyman police state that will take over this nation.
Respecting the law is important, and this woman was way over the line. Advocating for the cops in this instance does not equate to giving law enforcement a blank check to disregard reasonable restraints on unlawful search and seizure. I'd be afraid of that, too.
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Yet you are the same fella showing up at teabagger rallies afraid of the communist boogeyman police state that will take over this nation.
Ya, participating in peaceful rallies is totally contradictory to expecting citizens to respect the law! Get your story straight and come back to us wyzgy!
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Yet you are the same fella showing up at teabagger rallies afraid of the communist boogeyman police state that will take over this nation.
reinko- don't be an ass.
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Ok, I'm the ass. I am the one who advocated for this: "sometimes one has to do what he has to do...whale on the bitch and throw her in jail, or what's left of her."
I threw a bomb that touched a nerve on some folks, for that I apologize.
Edit: I am done, I broke my own rule of no politics. Go Marquette.
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1) It makes no difference whether she was 17 or 27 or 57. But the media loves to sensationalize stories when minors are involved for some reason.
2) This wasn't excessive force, this was self-defense - imagine what would have happened if one of the two thuggettes would have pulled a gun. Now what do you do. Will Jesse Jackson be at the officer's funeral because he was "brave" enough to put the comfort of his assailant in front of his own personal safety?
In a two-on-one situation - no matter if you're a private citizen or a police officer - there are two ways to protect yourself: 1) run away or 2) neutralize one of the assailants immediately so to even the numbers.
Most police officers would rather die in the line of duty than run away, and sometimes, a punch is the quickest means to even the numbers. Although in bad taste, justified.
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reinko- don't be an ass.
the problem is that wyz and many other drop little gems like these all the time, and they never retract them.
I fully expect you to show up in threads where it happens, and give them crap too.
More on topic, I am more liberal than most, but you guys all have it right. YOU DON'T TOUCH A POLICE OFFICER. Who are this girl's parents that didn't teach her that?
I hope the girl gets charged with assaulting an officer.
A lot of times officers overstep their boundaries, this is not one of them.
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There were two girls shoving him while he was trying to arrest them. He needed to do something but just drawing the tazer would have been enough.
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There were two girls shoving him while he was trying to arrest them. He needed to do something but just drawing the tazer would have been enough.
Do we know he had a tazer?
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the problem is that wyz and many other drop little gems like these all the time, and they never retract them.
I fully expect you to show up in threads where it happens, and give them crap too.
More on topic, I am more liberal than most, but you guys all have it right. YOU DON'T TOUCH A POLICE OFFICER. Who are this girl's parents that didn't teach her that?
I hope the girl gets charged with assaulting an officer.
A lot of times officers overstep their boundaries, this is not one of them.
+1000
I kept thinking to myself after I saw that stupid video, "Would I ever attempt to stop a police officer from arresting my friend?" The answer is HELL NO. Who thinks it's ok to resist or fight law enforcement? But of course it's a race thing not a stupidity thing.
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Do we know he had a tazer?
No, i guess i was making an assumption. His union just said that his mistake was not using enough force and he should have just taken her to the ground and it would have been over. Poor guy was probably doning every he could not to get on national news.
I know that police brutality against minorities (including the irish and poles back in the day) has been a problem for a long time. But the 'it still happens all the time' group has taken a hit recently. You'd think everyone pulling out cameras, at the drop of a hat, would have produced more legit instances of it by now.
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As a disclaimer, I am generally pretty anti-cop in most instances where excessive force, etc comes up. But this is not one of those times. What I hate about inflaming these cases, is that they provide a cover for the legitimate criticisms of police forces by questioning what is quite obviously an officer's legitimate resort to force. Responding to Rawdog, its not only the Rodney Kings of the world that the 'happens all the time' group is worried about, but the institutional inequality of the way laws are enforced everyday, against people who aren't grabbing and slapping at officers. By holding up some totally out of line woman the institutional inequality against undeserving 'suspects' is totally undercut by the sensationalist imagery.
Just a vicious cycle. Authority unfairly and disproportionately suspects a certain people. Said people loses a sense of respect for the law, and feels it is no longer designed to protect them. Said loss of respect results in actions that poorly and sometimes dangerously vent that frustration. Said actions lead to increased encounters with law enforcement and the greater perpetuation of suspicion/lack of respect for the office. Just an all around crappy situation.
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I must admit two things:
1. After sleeping on it last night and listening to the discussion on this board, I believe that the officer acted accordingly given the circumstances that we have been provided. When I first viewed it I thought it was excessive, but now that I think about actually putting myself in that officer's position I think he acted properly and reaonsably.
2. I'm slightly surprised everyone is agreeing on this one... one of the first times ever?? ;D
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As a disclaimer, I am generally pretty anti-cop in most instances where excessive force, etc comes up. But this is not one of those times. What I hate about inflaming these cases, is that they provide a cover for the legitimate criticisms of police forces by questioning what is quite obviously an officer's legitimate resort to force. Responding to Rawdog, its not only the Rodney Kings of the world that the 'happens all the time' group is worried about, but the institutional inequality of the way laws are enforced everyday, against people who aren't grabbing and slapping at officers. By holding up some totally out of line woman the institutional inequality against undeserving 'suspects' is totally undercut by the sensationalist imagery.
Just a vicious cycle. Authority unfairly and disproportionately suspects a certain people. Said people loses a sense of respect for the law, and feels it is no longer designed to protect them. Said loss of respect results in actions that poorly and sometimes dangerously vent that frustration. Said actions lead to increased encounters with law enforcement and the greater perpetuation of suspicion/lack of respect for the office. Just an all around crappy situation.
I understand that. And believe me I've been on the side of the detainee in several case which the majority of the board were not. And as a Wire fan, sociology student (not a major), Corner & Homicide reader and inner city product I understand the idea of certain groups being persecuted, and how that has lead to a culture of resentment. I think that has more to do with the drug war than brutality though.
But if you have a large group of people who eagerly jump to the idea that they are being persecuted for unjust reasons and then respond badly it doesn't do anything for their cause. Who knows if they could have respectfully talked their way out of the situation but they aren't raised to try that as a first recourse. And that is the problem. I think the cycle you speak needs to be fixed, but I'm afraid that the cops aren't the ones that have the power to do so now (if ever).
1) We need to adopt a no victim no crime attitude to the drug and prostitution trade and regulate the $h!t out of it.
2) Fix the schools. For those of you who doubt that is possible please watch the sundance award winning documentary The Providence Effect. http://www.providenceeffect.org/ (http://www.providenceeffect.org/)
Millions of dollars aren't the answer. My sister teaches at their new charter school located in the worst neighborhood in chicago, her kids test at the 80th percentile.
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Interesting Rawdog. Thanks for the movie suggestion.
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as is the theme, I'm in agreement all over that.
agree that the police arent in a position to fix/change the cycle, nor are they trained to do so.
agree on the schools.
agree on the criminal policies.
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You'd think everyone pulling out cameras, at the drop of a hat, would have produced more legit instances of it by now.
Interestingly enough, it is now illegal to record any on-duty police officer in three states.
http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns
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Interestingly enough, it is now illegal to record any on-duty police officer in three states.
http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns
That is ridiculous if you ask me. If there in fact is an officer (mind you this is all hypothetical) out there abusing his powers as an officer of the law and is excessively beating someone for instance without reason you should be able to video tape that officer in order to prosecute him. Just because your an officer doesn't mean you are above the law yourself. I just don't see why this should be allowed.
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Interestingly enough, it is now illegal to record any on-duty police officer in three states.
http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns
Similar article from yesterday: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/15/AR2010061505556.html
Hard to believe there's an expectation of privacy - especially for an officer - during a public arrest.
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That is ridiculous if you ask me. If there in fact is an officer (mind you this is all hypothetical) out there abusing his powers as an officer of the law and is excessively beating someone for instance without reason you should be able to video tape that officer in order to prosecute him. Just because your an officer doesn't mean you are above the law yourself. I just don't see why this should be allowed.
Some of us found it interesting that it was illegal to tape ACORN doing illegal things.
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Rodney King.....here's an interesting trivia question for those that might remember.
Was Rodney King the only person in the car that was pulled over?
If not, what happened to the other occupant?
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When the Rodney King thing broke, I remember chatting with some of our local police officers hanging out at the fire station. To a man, they criticized the cops involved. After looking at this video, the cop had options, but the fundamental thing to remember is that you don't touch a cop. Bad things will happen to you.
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Similar article from yesterday: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/15/AR2010061505556.html
Hard to believe there's an expectation of privacy - especially for an officer - during a public arrest.
It's in states where there's a two party consent requirement to make recordings of other people. While officers may be out in a public place, they're not there by choice.
I'm not coming down on one side or another here, I'm just saying that's the legal decision that's been made in those three states. Personally, I think expanding a law that was put in regarding wiretapping to cover videos made out on the street with mobile phones is pushing the spirit of the law a bit.