http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1092612
Nebraska is gone, Mizzou should be next.
Someone on ESPN just said that the 6 teams offered by the Pac-10 are all on their way out too.
chip brown from orangebloods.com "The Big 12 is dead"
wow! ...and...f&ck!!
if the pac10 expands (which if highly likely now), look for the SEC to expand. If the ACC can stay intact, the BE should be relatively ok, I think.
Jeez, I thought Tagliubue was being proactive? I bet a penny on the idea the BE would make the first move....
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on June 09, 2010, 06:42:22 PM
wow! ...and...f&ck!!
if the pac10 expands (which if highly likely now), look for the SEC to expand. If the ACC can stay intact, the BE should be relatively ok, I think.
Jeez, I thought Tagliubue was being proactive? I bet a penny on the idea the BE would make the first move....
Dominos. If the SEC expands, they have to expand from the Big East and the ACC. South Florida, for example. Louisville, WVU. The ACC would likely take Syracuse, Pitt or Rutgers (if the Big Ten doesn't).
I fear that this is not good for MU.....not having a football team is going to kill us in the long run....
and just when things looked like they were heading the right way........damn.....
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on June 09, 2010, 06:42:22 PM
wow! ...and...f&ck!!
if the pac10 expands (which if highly likely now), look for the SEC to expand. If the ACC can stay intact, the BE should be relatively ok, I think.
Jeez, I thought Tagliubue was being proactive? I bet a penny on the idea the BE would make the first move....
there is nothing the BE could do. This is a football driven issue and the BE is the weakest football conference in the BCS.
The Big 12 appears to be dead.
A source close to the Nebraska Board of Regents told Orangebloods.com the regents informally agreed Wednesday to move to the Big Ten and that a formal announcement Nebraska is leaving will come Friday.
Sources close to Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech have suggested to Orangebloods.com over the last week that if Nebraska leaves, the Big 12 can't be saved.
Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds and president Williams Powers gathered UT coaches today at 2 p.m. CT to tell them they did everything they could to save the Big 12 but that they were unsuccessful.
Just as Orangebloods.com was first to report last Thursday, the Pac-10 will invite Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and Colorado.
And it appears those invitations will be accepted.
According to sources, Colorado will also opt out of the Big 12 and accept an invitation to the Pac-10.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 09, 2010, 07:21:16 PM
The Big 12 appears to be dead.
A source close to the Nebraska Board of Regents told Orangebloods.com the regents informally agreed Wednesday to move to the Big Ten and that a formal announcement Nebraska is leaving will come Friday.
Sources close to Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech have suggested to Orangebloods.com over the last week that if Nebraska leaves, the Big 12 can't be saved.
Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds and president Williams Powers gathered UT coaches today at 2 p.m. CT to tell them they did everything they could to save the Big 12 but that they were unsuccessful.
Just as Orangebloods.com was first to report last Thursday, the Pac-10 will invite Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and Colorado.
And it appears those invitations will be accepted.
According to sources, Colorado will also opt out of the Big 12 and accept an invitation to the Pac-10.
By all accounts on the "ground" here, Texas really didn't want to save the Big 12..but didn't want to be the one's blamed for the break up of the Big 12...rather..Texas can appear that it was the victim of Nebraska leaving. If you really stop to think about it: How could the loss of Nebraska (and Missouri possibly) really undermine the whole Big 12. You add TCU to the Big 12 and they've had a higher football profile for the last 10 years than either NEB or Mizzou....
"By all accounts on the "ground" here, Texas really didn't want to save the Big 12..but didn't want to be the one's blamed for the break up of the Big 12...rather..Texas can appear that it was the victim of Nebraska leaving. If you really stop to think about it: How could the loss of Nebraska (and Missouri possibly) really undermine the whole Big 12. You add TCU to the Big 12 and they've had a higher football profile for the last 10 years than either NEB or Mizzou...."
You are dead on until the last sentence, which is absolutely false. It looks to me like Orangebloods is the house organ for UT these days and was shifting blame around to paint UT in a good light. TCU has been very good at football and would have beaten NU & MU in a couple of those years, but a team with a seldom full 44,000 seat stadium hardly pulls a higher profile than MU & NU.
Quote from: Husker4MU on June 09, 2010, 08:02:27 PM
You are dead on until the last sentence, which is absolutely false. It looks to me like Orangebloods is the house organ for UT these days and was shifting blame around to paint UT in a good light. TCU has been very good at football and would have beaten NU & MU in a couple of those years, but a team with a seldom full 44,000 seat stadium hardly pulls a higher profile than MU & NU.
Nebraska definitely will capture more eyeballs for the Big 10 Network which is critical for BTN, but from a BCS Bowl perspective, TCU has established itself as a Top 10-15 program nationally over the last decade, while Nebraska has struggled ever since Osborne resigned as coach. Nebraska has a rich tradition for sure, but the tracjectory of the two programs over the last decade (TCU and Nebraska) has been going the opposite direction - though it seems Pellini has it turning back around. But..ultiamtely..Texas could have prevented the dissolution of the Big 12 if it wanted. Period. End of story.
Quote from: Ners on June 09, 2010, 08:09:48 PM
Nebraska definitely will capture more eyeballs for the Big 10 Network which is critical for BTN, but from a BCS Bowl perspective, TCU has established itself as a Top 10-15 program nationally over the last decade, while Nebraska has struggled ever since Osborne resigned as coach. Nebraska has a rich tradition for sure, but the tracjectory of the two programs over the last decade (TCU and Nebraska) has been going the opposite direction - though it seems Pellini has it turning back around. But..ultiamtely..Texas could have prevented the dissolution of the Big 12 if it wanted. Period. End of story.
Put TCU in the Big 12 North and they don't fare better than Nebraska has. Let's not extrapolate a couple of good seasons over decades of tradition and success.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on June 09, 2010, 06:42:22 PM
wow! ...and...f&ck!!
if the pac10 expands (which if highly likely now), look for the SEC to expand. If the ACC can stay intact, the BE should be relatively ok, I think.
Why do people think that the SEC would need to expand? If they can't find schools that really add value, no conference is going to expand.
It seems to me that Marquette should be looking at forming a basketball conference, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, Memphis...anyone have any other ideas?
How soon until congress sticks it's nose into alignment?
Quote from: Stone Cold on June 09, 2010, 09:19:03 PM
How soon until congress sticks it's nose into alignment?
Are you F@cking kidding me? So these D-Bags dont have anything better to do than to stick their noses into college sports? Hmmmm....unemployment, oil spil, afghanistan, iran, iraq, north korea....and on and on.... College conferences shouldnt be at the top of their agenda. Just sayin. Let's prioritize. College sports should be whatever the national deficit is on the list of things to do...so....maybe [negative] 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000. Politicians are better off trying to figure out what to do with the dbag in the oval office than worry about the b12, b10, BE...blah, blah, blah
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on June 09, 2010, 09:34:56 PM
Are you F@cking kidding me? So these D-Bags dont have anything better to do than to stick their noses into college sports? Hmmmm....unemployment, oil spil, afghanistan, iran, iraq, north korea....and on and on.... College conferences shouldnt be at the top of their agenda. Just sayin. Let's prioritize. College sports should be whatever the national deficit is on the list of things to do...so....maybe [negative] 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000. Politicians are better off trying to figure out what to do with the dbag in the oval office than worry about the b12, b10, BE...blah, blah, blah
That said, we're back to Stone's question. How long till congress....
::)
Quote from: GOMUWFB on June 09, 2010, 09:13:43 PM
It seems to me that Marquette should be looking at forming a basketball conference, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, Memphis...anyone have any other ideas?
It wouldn't do them any harm to start conversations with some people, but this potentially could end very badly for MU. If you have the four, 16 team "superconference" idea, why would these conferences even need the NCAA any longer? Sharing a conference with schools like Dayton and St. Louis would be the least of our worries.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on June 09, 2010, 06:42:22 PM
wow! ...and...f&ck!!
if the pac10 expands (which if highly likely now), look for the SEC to expand. If the ACC can stay intact, the BE should be relatively ok, I think.
Jeez, I thought Tagliubue was being proactive? I bet a penny on the idea the BE would make the first move....
As far as being proactive, what is the Big East supposed to do? It probably has to ask Kansas, K-State, Iowa State and UCF to be its 17-20th members to get to 12 football schools. If Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul magically disappeared and Notre Dame was all in or all out maybe they would be in a position to try for the previous group or even more elusive candidates like BC or Maryland, but even then it's doubtful: schools are unlikely to join a conference on a gamble that they will have their act together and get a good television deal, and television is not going to gamble a conference can make a haul in expansion by awarding it a good deal beforehand. Bowl revenue and NCAA tournament revenue will go up, but still not enough to compete with other conferences.
Kansas might be too good to pass up, but if the Big Ten, ACC, or SEC invites they win. The Big East has one thing going over the Mountain West for these schools - they currently own a BCS bid, the Mountain West would still have to obtain one - they could likely get the Big 12's, but adding Boise State to the current group isn't a lock with the way the BCS works.
If the BE can't dismiss some dead weight, taking a leap, inviting these schools, and hoping to win them over the Mountain West and others and sorting out the excessive size issue later might be the best option for survival. But if the Big Ten or ACC comes calling for any of the current members it'll further ruin the conference when it starts looking for Memphis to replace Syracuse, Temple to replace Pitt, and Marshall to replace Rutgers, and find that the basketball-only school that was most desirable to keep in Georgetown is the one that heads out while the current free-riders continue to do nothing since that'll always be the best option for them. After all, 20 members will help the football situation, but it'll still be the worst of the BCS conferences, basketball might be the best, but it'll still not be close to maxmizing revenue capacity when you have some appealing matchups to lure a television deal and still many unappealing ones.
The BCS bid is key. Invite Kansas, K-State, Iowa State, and one more (likely Memphis or UCF), and do it NOW. Get to that 12 team level for championship game revenue. If one or two football schools leave, replace them. Yes, it's 19 or 20 teams for basketball. Make every attempt to keep the BCS bid now. Worry about the fat later.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on June 09, 2010, 09:34:56 PM
Are you F@cking kidding me? So these D-Bags dont have anything better to do than to stick their noses into college sports? Hmmmm....unemployment, oil spil, afghanistan, iran, iraq, north korea....and on and on.... College conferences shouldnt be at the top of their agenda. Just sayin. Let's prioritize. College sports should be whatever the national deficit is on the list of things to do...so....maybe [negative] 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000. Politicians are better off trying to figure out what to do with the dbag in the oval office than worry about the b12, b10, BE...blah, blah, blah
I hope they do.
I'd hate for Marquette to be stuck in a horrible league.
That'd suck.
Mark Schlabach seems to think that the SEC and ACC are going to stand pat because (basically) splitting Florida between the two conferences is actually good for both. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=5268212 (check out the bottom)
even if we lose a few teams to the Big "Ten", KU, KSU, ISU, and UCF are all out there for the taking...the Big East as we know it might still be all right. Lets not assume the worst until it happens.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 09, 2010, 09:01:16 PM
Why do people think that the SEC would need to expand? If they can't find schools that really add value, no conference is going to expand.
Because this is about dollars and eyeballs. More schools equals more dollars and more eyeballs. The SEC won't sit around (most likely) and let the Big Ten be bigger than they are. They might let the Pac Ten be bigger, but not the Big Ten. IMO. Now, maybe short term they do, but long term I don't see how they can and command the dollars they want in TV revenue.
This is is the lesser of many possible evils. They went west first, so the chance of losing 5 be teams to the big 10 is gone. Now we can't have four 16 team conferences with mu in another conference.
1. If the big 10 stops short of 16 teams, we could be fine, or
2. The reports that rthe big 10 has soured on missouri leaves kansas, kstate and missouri as a great trio that is a lot closer to the big east than the acc if we are in the battle with the acc as the 4th of the 16-team conferences and they can go with nova and gtown.all the talk down here in sec country is about picking up acc teams. Its been ga tech and clemson as the extra schools, rather than wvu and louisville.
Yes, I'm nervous, but I'm relieved we aren't reading about rutgers, pitt, syracuse or uconn as the first move.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 09, 2010, 11:51:15 PM
Because this is about dollars and eyeballs. More schools equals more dollars and more eyeballs. The SEC won't sit around (most likely) and let the Big Ten be bigger than they are. They might let the Pac Ten be bigger, but not the Big Ten. IMO. Now, maybe short term they do, but long term I don't see how they can and command the dollars they want in TV revenue.
But what schools out there will deliver those eyeballs?
I think Delaney (or someone higher-up in all this for the Big Ten) basically said they'd stop at 12 so they weren't viewed as "responsible for creating college football Armageddon"...
Um, isn't that exactly what they did?
EDIT: Is it now the Big 11?
It will be interesting for us, as MU fans, to see what happens with Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor and Iowa State. They aren't football powerhouses and they aren't from the biggest markets in the country. Their situations aren't exactly like ours, but we'll likely be facing many of the same challenges in the near future.
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on June 10, 2010, 08:57:57 AM
I think Delaney (or someone higher-up in all this for the Big Ten) basically said they'd stop at 12 so they weren't viewed as "responsible for creating college football Armageddon"...
Um, isn't that exactly what they did?
EDIT: Is it now the Big 11?
Realistically, after Colorado leaves, and the Big 12 disolves, shouldn't the Big Ten become the new "Big 12", and the old Big 12 become the new "Big Ten"???
numbers mean nothing I guess.
Quote from: Stone Cold on June 09, 2010, 09:19:03 PM
How soon until congress sticks it's nose into alignment?
Very soon.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Kansas-senators-lobby-Huskers-threaten-legal-fi?urn=ncaaf,246925 (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Kansas-senators-lobby-Huskers-threaten-legal-fi?urn=ncaaf,246925)
Quote from: Ners on June 09, 2010, 07:39:56 PM
By all accounts on the "ground" here, Texas really didn't want to save the Big 12..but didn't want to be the one's blamed for the break up of the Big 12...rather..Texas can appear that it was the victim of Nebraska leaving. If you really stop to think about it: How could the loss of Nebraska (and Missouri possibly) really undermine the whole Big 12. You add TCU to the Big 12 and they've had a higher football profile for the last 10 years than either NEB or Mizzou....
I agree a better football conference, although Missouri will/would be a huge basketball loss and a quality football team loss just not on the same level as Nebraska.
Replacing Nebraska with TCU wouldn't work. TCU may be the better football program now, but that wouldn't matter that much for TV purposes. How many more Texas TV sets would they get? Nebraska has one of the most rabid fan bases in all of college football. It's the state of Nebraska's, NFL, NBA, and major league baseball, all rolled into one. They had over 10 thousand attend
their spring game. Only Alabama had more. With Nebraska gone the northern Big 12 is weak with the traditionally strong teams all in Texas and Oklahoma, a big problem for competitive purposes, Iowa State v. Texas for the Big 12 championship game. That would have to be the lowest grossing league championship game in the land.
Delaney at the Big Ten is supposedly the genius in this alignment, and he wouldn't be taking Nebraska just to wrap up the Nebraska TV audience. After Notre Dame, and perhaps three or four others, Nebraska has the largest national TV audience following. The Big Ten sees Nebraska as a part of a cable channel that becomes a must have for serious college football fans. Also, Nebraska fans are famous as avid travelers to other league stadiums, increasing ticket sales at places like Northwestern and Indiana. And they don't have to take a yucky academic school like Oklahoma or Oklahoma State. Nebraska has been an American Association of Universities member since 1909.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 09, 2010, 06:57:31 PM
Dominos. If the SEC expands, they have to expand from the Big East and the ACC. South Florida, for example. Louisville, WVU. The ACC would likely take Syracuse, Pitt or Rutgers (if the Big Ten doesn't).
Where the heck is the SEC in all this. BMA has said that he knows that the SEC won't stand still if the Big Ten increases its footprint, but if they do not get out there fast, the pickings will be slim. At that point maybe they will have to raid the Big East. If they do they will be getting teams inferior to those picked up by the Big Ten and the Pac 10.
Unless they're stupid, the SEC had better get in there and make a play for the Texas teams. They should have more ammunition than the PAC 10 to land them. They could take Texas Tech AND Baylor as well as the big two which would definitely get the Texas legislature on their side.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 09, 2010, 07:21:16 PM
The Big 12 appears to be dead.
A source close to the Nebraska Board of Regents told Orangebloods.com the regents informally agreed Wednesday to move to the Big Ten and that a formal announcement Nebraska is leaving will come Friday.
Sources close to Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech have suggested to Orangebloods.com over the last week that if Nebraska leaves, the Big 12 can't be saved.
Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds and president Williams Powers gathered UT coaches today at 2 p.m. CT to tell them they did everything they could to save the Big 12 but that they were unsuccessful.
Just as Orangebloods.com was first to report last Thursday, the Pac-10 will invite Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and Colorado.
And it appears those invitations will be accepted.
According to sources, Colorado will also opt out of the Big 12 and accept an invitation to the Pac-10.
What a bunch of B.S., not by you comrade Chicos (socialist that you are) ;), but by the Texas administration. "Doing everything that they could", I think would have included putting fairer revenue sharing by Texas U. on the table. No reports have surfaced that that proposal ever was put on the table. It will be interesting to see what kind of deal Texas can or can't work out with the Pac 10.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 09, 2010, 09:01:16 PM
Why do people think that the SEC would need to expand? If they can't find schools that really add value, no conference is going to expand.
Hello! Yes! Exact-a- mundo!
If they don't make a late play for the Texas schools, their only good options are from the ACC which ain't gonna easy because the most valuable schools would be giving up some VERY strong rivalries.
Quote from: Husker4MU on June 09, 2010, 08:02:27 PM
"By all accounts on the "ground" here, Texas really didn't want to save the Big 12..but didn't want to be the one's blamed for the break up of the Big 12...rather..Texas can appear that it was the victim of Nebraska leaving. If you really stop to think about it: How could the loss of Nebraska (and Missouri possibly) really undermine the whole Big 12. You add TCU to the Big 12 and they've had a higher football profile for the last 10 years than either NEB or Mizzou...."
You are dead on until the last sentence, which is absolutely false. It looks to me like Orangebloods is the house organ for UT these days and was shifting blame around to paint UT in a good light. TCU has been very good at football and would have beaten NU & MU in a couple of those years, but a team with a seldom full 44,000 seat stadium hardly pulls a higher profile than MU & NU.
See, what did I say about those rabid Husker fans!
Hey Husker4MU,
Do you know what Mizzou fans say the "N" on Nebraska's helmet stands for?
All this talk of TCU being a better football program than Nebraska is ridiculous.
TCU has been consistently a top 25 program only since about 2000. Before that, they hadn't finished Top 25 in over 40 years. They haven't won a Bowl game played in January since 1957.
By almost any measure Nebraska is one of the top 5 to 10 college football programs of all time.
Quote from: GOMUWFB on June 09, 2010, 09:13:43 PM
It seems to me that Marquette should be looking at forming a basketball conference, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, Memphis...anyone have any other ideas?
It's definitely too early to make that move. Too much more needs to play out, but it'll will soon. Boy, will it fun to hear the comments back and forth between fans at Big 12 football games between teams moving to different conferences for the next two years or so until the changes are implemented.
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 10, 2010, 09:41:44 AM
I agree a better football conference, although Missouri will/would be a huge basketball loss and a quality football team loss just not on the same level as Nebraska.
Replacing Nebraska with TCU wouldn't work. TCU may be the better football program now, but that wouldn't matter that much for TV purposes. How many more Texas TV sets would they get? Nebraska has one of the most rabid fan bases in all of college football. It's the state of Nebraska's, NFL, NBA, and major league baseball, all rolled into one. They had over 10 thousand attend their spring game. Only Alabama had more. With Nebraska gone the northern Big 12 is weak with the traditionally strong teams all in Texas and Oklahoma, a big problem for competitive purposes, Iowas State v. Texas for the Big 12 championship game. That would have to be the lowest grossing league championship game in the land.
Delaney at the Big Ten is supposedly the genius in this alignment, and he wouldn't be taking Nebraska just to wrap up the Nebraska TV audience. After Notre Dame, and perhaps three or four others, Nebraska has the largest national TV audience following. The Big Ten sees Nebraska as a part of a cable channel that becomes a must have for serious college football fans. Also, Nebraska fans are famous as avid travelers to other league stadiums, increasing ticket sales at places like Northwestern and Indiana. And they don't have to take a yuckky academic school like Oklahoma or Oklahoma State. Nebraska has been an American Association of Universities member since 1909.
This is exactly correct. Well said.
If I was the SEC I would look to get into North Carolina, and maybe even Virginia. There probably is some money in doing that.
North Carolina is a growing market for the SEC to get into. Expanding population and more money heading down there. Maybe they would just take NC, Wake, Duke, and NC State and dominate that growing area. Or maybe they look at 2 NC schools and then VT and Virginia to get up there. That would probably allow them to sweep the southern states' cable packages.
Secondarily, the SEC could look at Kansas. The Kansas City market (I have no idea who they root for there) might be worth it. Louisville would be another one to look at or even Pitt. However, I think taking the ACC schools is a better choice for the SEC over the Big East schools.
Quote from: ODMU238 on June 09, 2010, 11:43:10 PM
Mark Schlabach seems to think that the SEC and ACC are going to stand pat because (basically) splitting Florida between the two conferences is actually good for both. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=5268212 (check out the bottom)
even if we lose a few teams to the Big "Ten", KU, KSU, ISU, and UCF are all out there for the taking...the Big East as we know it might still be all right. Lets not assume the worst until it happens.
Hey, I agree with this. The shattering of the Big 12 has saved the Big East at least in the short run 10 to 15 years in NCAA time.
Quote from: Stone Cold on June 09, 2010, 09:19:03 PM
How soon until congress sticks it's nose into alignment?
They won't. But certain congress members from states whose schools get a raw deal will complain hard and loud about having hearings because their constituents will care more about this than Afghanistan, the gulf oil spill, or Canada's invasion of Maine. (today's minor news story)
Quote from: HoopsMalone on June 10, 2010, 10:10:31 AM
If I was the SEC I would look to get into North Carolina, and maybe even Virginia. There probably is some money in doing that.
North Carolina is a growing market for the SEC to get into. Expanding population and more money heading down there. Maybe they would just take NC, Wake, Duke, and NC State and dominate that growing area. Or maybe they look at 2 NC schools and then VT and Virginia to get up there. That would probably allow them to sweep the southern states' cable packages.
Secondarily, the SEC could look at Kansas. The Kansas City market (I have no idea who they root for there) might be worth it. Louisville would be another one to look at or even Pitt. However, I think taking the ACC schools is a better choice for the SEC over the Big East schools.
Problem is, UNC, WF, Duke, and NCST are, essentially, a package. If the SEC absorbs them, where does the Texas cadre go? I'd bet that the B12 South (or most of it) ends up in the SEC which ends up bigger than the B10.
QuoteQuote
Why do people think that the SEC would need to expand? If they can't find schools that really add value, no conference is going to expand.
Hello! Yes! Exact-a- mundo!
If they don't make a late play for the Texas schools, their only good options are from the ACC which ain't gonna easy because the most valuable schools would be giving up some VERY strong rivalries.
There will be plenty left for the SEC even if they stand pat in the near future. Any of the FL schools not in the ACC will gladly accept an invite (ahem South Florida) as will fell BEaster Louisville. Both of these schools are certainly not as high profile as the Texas schools which you are right would be at the top of the list. But even if they don't get UT/A&M and OK/OKST, both those BEast teams would skyrocket as members of the SEC. They both have natural geographic rivalries, competent sports that would only get better with SEC recruiting (with the possible exception of Lvill BBall which is already the best of the bunch). Beyond that, Kansas and KState will be hanging around. Without Lousville and USF, schools like WVU might be open to moving and if some of the Noreast BE schools go to the ACC, a trade with schools like Georgia Tech becomes much more palatable for the ACC. So even if they miss out on the TX schools, I think there's still plenty of incentive for the SEC to raid.
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on June 10, 2010, 08:57:57 AM
I think Delaney (or someone higher-up in all this for the Big Ten) basically said they'd stop at 12 so they weren't viewed as "responsible for creating college football Armageddon"...
Um, isn't that exactly what they did?
EDIT: Is it now the Big 11?
Of course, they aren't counting Indiana. Would you with the current state of their football and basketball programs?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5271438
Colorado to pac 10
Announcement today at noon.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 10, 2010, 10:17:42 AM
Problem is, UNC, WF, Duke, and NCST are, essentially, a package. If the SEC absorbs them, where does the Texas cadre go? I'd bet that the B12 South (or most of it) ends up in the SEC which ends up bigger than the B10.
I think the SEC would of course rather have the Big 12 south with TX and OK. But, the Pac-10 just stepped up and were the aggressors. Carolina is probably the best remaining market. Texas and the Carolinas are both growing populations too so they stand to be good investments.
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 10, 2010, 09:41:44 AM
And they don't have to take a yuckky academic school like Oklahoma or Oklahoma State. Nebraska has been an American Association of Universities member since 1909.
Last I looked University of Oklahoma and Nebraska were about equal in terms of National rank. Nebraska was just outside of the Top 100. So was Oklahoma.
I think the Big Ten is being disingenious with the whole academic thing. Nebraska will be the worst ranked school in the Big Ten now.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 10, 2010, 10:34:50 AM
Last I looked University of Oklahoma and Nebraska were about equal in terms of National rank. Nebraska was just outside of the Top 100. So was Oklahoma.
I think the Big Ten is being disingenious with the whole academic thing. Nebraska will be the worst ranked school in the Big Ten now.
Nebraska just needs to pass the sniff test for academics, which it does. It's an academic boon for NU to join, but the Big Whatever doesn't gain much, if anything, academically. The rest is about $$ - either directly from adding NU or using NU to get larger prizes. ND and possibly Texas are still in play.
OU doesn't provide geographic continuity or built in rivalries. Nebraska will quickly strike up rivalries with Iowa, Wisconsin and possibly Minnesota. Oklahoma's history and current NCAA troubles can't help matters either.
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 10, 2010, 10:01:35 AM
See, what did I say about those rabid Husker fans!
Hey Husker4MU,
Do you know what Mizzou fans say the "N" on Nebraska's helmet stands for?
I just never understood that joke. NU is not Harvard, but it's not a community college either. It leads college football in Academic All Americans and Warren Buffett seems to be doing fine despite slumming it in Lincoln.
Quote from: Husker4MU on June 10, 2010, 11:03:11 AM
I just never understood that joke. NU is not Harvard, but it's not a community college either. It leads college football in Academic All Americans and Warren Buffett seems to be doing fine despite slumming it in Lincoln.
The joke is perfectly understandable. What it really says is: "You guys have better players than us and a lot more of them. It MUST be because you'll take any big farm boy who can write his own name." In other words, its about envy and frustration at getting beat on year after year. (In football, of course).
Full Disclosure: I'm a Mizzou football fan, just an honest one.
BTW: The richest guy I know personally is a Nebraska alum. He studied agricultural economics. Then he came back to Chicago. He got involved in futures trading at the Chicago Board of Trade.
Right on time.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100609/SPORTS020602/6100340/1003/SPORTS/Conference-Expansion-Sen.-Grassley-says-he-will-protect-ISU?GID=PheCch5Eg4HPnVf5hCI55I/g6S75EBVfWYmknIYoUnQ%3D (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100609/SPORTS020602/6100340/1003/SPORTS/Conference-Expansion-Sen.-Grassley-says-he-will-protect-ISU?GID=PheCch5Eg4HPnVf5hCI55I/g6S75EBVfWYmknIYoUnQ%3D)
"My goal would be to make sure Iowa State would not get hurt by however this might turn out," (Senator) Grassley said in an interview with the Des Moines Register.
The article also points out that Grassley is running for reelection this fall. Protecting Iowa State from economic realities, what better motive could there be to toy around with the Tax Code and antitrust laws?
Quote from: Husker4MU on June 10, 2010, 11:03:11 AM
I just never understood that joke. NU is not Harvard, but it's not a community college either. It leads college football in Academic All Americans and Warren Buffett seems to be doing fine despite slumming it in Lincoln.
I don't think a lot of people from Marquette are besmirching U of Nebraska's academics. Marquette is only slightly better so why should we. I think my problem is I've heard numerous people bad month Iowa State, Alabama, Oklahoma, et. al. in terms of not good enough for the Big Ten. The reality is that Nebraska is about equal or not as good as many of these schools academically.
It is no knock on Nebraska... more so on the Big Ten propaganda.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 10, 2010, 10:34:50 AM
Last I looked University of Oklahoma and Nebraska were about equal in terms of National rank. Nebraska was just outside of the Top 100. So was Oklahoma.
I think the Big Ten is being disingenious with the whole academic thing. Nebraska will be the worst ranked school in the Big Ten now.
When the Big Ten presidents talk academics, they are really talking about the strength and reputation of the school's graduate programs in research. The president's feel that the athletic connection makes it easier for their conference members to cooperate in research, as well. Membership in the 65(?) member American Association of Universities is based totally upon the quality of the school's research efforts. This is the area where Nebraska kicks Oklahoma's butt.
Mizzou is a member of the AAU. Until 2001 when Texas A&M got in, Texas was the only Big 12 school in the south division to be in the AAU.
Earlier, someone asked who Kansas City, Missouri roots for. I believe that its a split between Mizzou and Kansas with a strong KU lean. So here's a possible surprise scenario. Maybe Delaney surprises and offers both Mizzou and Kansas. Both are ok or better football teams with plenty of basketball punch for wintertime viewing. KU is also an AAU member. St. Louis just makes the top 25 TV markets, and Kansas City comes in close behind at number 31...
Quote from: Stone Cold on June 09, 2010, 09:19:03 PM
How soon until congress sticks it's nose into alignment?
Nether NCAA, BCS, nor any conference has a congressional exemption to antitrust laws (unlike MLB), so congress has little to involve itself with these issues.
US DOJ watches all of these goings on for anticompetitve effects-- no current word on whether conf realignment or related BCS automatics cause any US atty any heartburn, though.
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 10, 2010, 11:46:31 AM
When the Big Ten presidents talk academics, they are really talking about the strength and reputation of the school's graduate programs in research. The president's feel that the athletic connection makes it easier for their conference members to cooperate in research, as well. Membership in the 65(?) member American Association of Universities is based totally upon the quality of the school's research efforts. This is the area where Nebraska kicks Oklahoma's butt.
Mizzou is a member of the AAU. Until 2001 when Texas A&M got in, Texas was the only Big 12 school in the south division to be in the AAU.
Earlier, someone asked who Kansas City, Missouri roots for. I believe that its a split between Mizzou and Kansas with a strong KU lean. So here's a possible surprise scenario. Maybe Delaney surprises and offers both Mizzou and Kansas. Both are ok or better football teams with plenty of basketball punch for wintertime viewing. KU is also an AAU member. St. Louis just makes the top 25 TV markets, and Kansas City comes in close behind at number 31...
Supposedly KU and KState are joined at the hip, so if the B11 wants KU and Mizzou, they have to take KState, which means they'd need to add another on top of that. Iowa State doesn't add more households, and Baylor's not the best fit, either, with all the AAU talk. KU, KState, and Mizzou would be three teams splitting two markets, too, so it's less than ideal and would maybe even dilute revenue. B11 got their football power, new market, AAU member, and 12th team for the championship game with Nebraska. They don't have to do anything else if it doesn't make perfect sense. Now we need to take advantage of all the havoc this caused, and we need to do it now.
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 10, 2010, 11:46:31 AM
When the Big Ten presidents talk academics, they are really talking about the strength and reputation of the school's graduate programs in research. The president's feel that the athletic connection makes it easier for their conference members to cooperate in research, as well. Membership in the 65(?) member American Association of Universities is based totally upon the quality of the school's research efforts. This is the area where Nebraska kicks Oklahoma's butt.
Mizzou is a member of the AAU. Until 2001 when Texas A&M got in, Texas was the only Big 12 school in the south division to be in the AAU.
I understand. My question to the Big Ten is why would you be speaking to Notre Dame then? They are not a leader in research nor have AAU membership.
I am not saying that the Big Ten will take any school regardless of the academics. However, 99% of this is about sports revenues.
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on June 10, 2010, 08:57:57 AM
EDIT: Is it now the Big 11?
Maybe they'll invite schools to replace the departures (if TX/OK doesn't blow the whole thing up). Give them more than 12 hours before forcing a name change on them.
Quote from: TJ on June 10, 2010, 12:17:14 PM
Maybe they'll invite schools to replace the departures (if TX/OK doesn't blow the whole thing up). Give them more than 12 hours before forcing a name change on them.
I meant it as, the Big Ten had 11 schools.
Now they have 12, so if they keep in line with how they name the conference, they'd now be the Big 11...
My (poor) attempt at making a joke that's been made 5,000,000 times... ;)
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on June 10, 2010, 12:24:33 PM
I meant it as, the Big Ten had 11 schools.
Now they have 12, so if they keep in line with how they name the conference, they'd now be the Big 11...
My (poor) attempt at making a joke that's been made 5,000,000 times... ;)
Ah... I read it thinking of the wrong conference.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on June 09, 2010, 09:34:56 PM
Are you F@cking kidding me? So these D-Bags dont have anything better to do than to stick their noses into college sports? Hmmmm....unemployment, oil spil, afghanistan, iran, iraq, north korea....and on and on
Yes, it would be completely out of line for a Congressional committee to look into a multi-billion dollar industry that, at least indirectly, benefits from billions of tax dollars every year and receives tax-exempt status (also costing taxpayers millions annually).
That would be way out of line.
Quote from: houwarrior on June 10, 2010, 11:50:52 AM
Nether NCAA, BCS, nor any conference has a congressional exemption to antitrust laws (unlike MLB), so congress has little to involve itself with these issues.
US DOJ watches all of these goings on for anticompetitve effects-- no current word on whether conf realignment or related BCS automatics cause any US atty any heartburn, though.
College athletic departments, under the umbrella of an institution of higher learning, receive tax-exempt status on the billions of dollars they generate every year.
Given that many ADs are little more than corporate entities within the structure (barely) of their university, certainly that is an opening for which the federal government can get involved.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 10, 2010, 01:40:26 PM
Yes, it would be completely out of line for a Congressional committee to look into a multi-billion dollar industry that, at least indirectly, benefits from billions of tax dollars every year and receives tax-exempt status (also costing taxpayers millions annually).
That would be way out of line.
The funny thing is, they may well do it, just not for any of the reasons you give, all of which are good ones. No, they may well have their committee meetings on these issues, but the motivation behind it will be in the words of Iowa Senator Grassley: ""My goal would be to make sure Iowa State would not get hurt by however this might turn out."
...it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
--Winston Churchill
Quote from: Ready2Fly on June 10, 2010, 12:13:39 PM
Supposedly KU and KState are joined at the hip, so if the B11 wants KU and Mizzou, they have to take KState, which means they'd need to add another on top of that. Iowa State doesn't add more households, and Baylor's not the best fit, either, with all the AAU talk. KU, KState, and Mizzou would be three teams splitting two markets, too, so it's less than ideal and would maybe even dilute revenue. B11 got their football power, new market, AAU member, and 12th team for the championship game with Nebraska. They don't have to do anything else if it doesn't make perfect sense. Now we need to take advantage of all the havoc this caused, and we need to do it now.
My two cents on how it shakes out. The Big 10, really really really wants Notre Dame. They add Nebraska because they can get them now to get to 12, and the championship game, but they aren't done. They will try and grab Rutgers and Syracuse, which accomplishes two goals: it gets them into the New York market, and it destabilizes the Big East. Why is the Big East destabilization key, because that would force Notre Dame's hand. Notre Dame needs a home for its non-football teams, and if the BEast falls apart they need somewhere to go. Notre Dame can only remain independent in football if the Big East continues to allow it.
If it goes down this way, the Big East may be salvagable. Before Notre Dame leaves you could try and grab Mizzou and Kansas. If ND leaves then you grab Mizzou and Kansas, and for balance you grab a team like Xavier which doesn't have football to replace ND. If you replace ND, Cuse, and Rutgers with Xavier, Mizzou, and Kansas you can't tell me that league isn't strong in both sports than it is now. However, if the ND pin is pulled it could just as easily go the other way and the ACC/SEC could come calling to pick over the scraps leaving MU in serious trouble.
Quote from: mu03eng on June 10, 2010, 02:13:02 PM
My two cents on how it shakes out. The Big 10, really really really wants Notre Dame. They add Nebraska because they can get them now to get to 12, and the championship game, but they aren't done. They will try and grab Rutgers and Syracuse, which accomplishes two goals: it gets them into the New York market, and it destabilizes the Big East. Why is the Big East destabilization key, because that would force Notre Dame's hand. Notre Dame needs a home for its non-football teams, and if the BEast falls apart they need somewhere to go. Notre Dame can only remain independent in football if the Big East continues to allow it.
If it goes down this way, the Big East may be salvagable. Before Notre Dame leaves you could try and grab Mizzou and Kansas. If ND leaves then you grab Mizzou and Kansas, and for balance you grab a team like Xavier which doesn't have football to replace ND. If you replace ND, Cuse, and Rutgers with Xavier, Mizzou, and Kansas you can't tell me that league isn't strong in both sports than it is now. However, if the ND pin is pulled it could just as easily go the other way and the ACC/SEC could come calling to pick over the scraps leaving MU in serious trouble.
I hope you're right, also could make a grab for Memphis...
Quote from: mu03eng on June 10, 2010, 02:13:02 PM
If it goes down this way, the Big East may be salvagable. Before Notre Dame leaves you could try and grab Mizzou and Kansas. If ND leaves then you grab Mizzou and Kansas, and for balance you grab a team like Xavier which doesn't have football to replace ND. If you replace ND, Cuse, and Rutgers with Xavier, Mizzou, and Kansas you can't tell me that league isn't strong in both sports than it is now. However, if the ND pin is pulled it could just as easily go the other way and the ACC/SEC could come calling to pick over the scraps leaving MU in serious trouble.
Going to 9 football schools has to be a no-brainer, one to try to balance the schedule and two for protection should more schools leave. Xavier does none of that. If anything the Big East could stand to lose basketball schools so it can add more football without the size becoming excessive and aim for the 12 teams for the championship game. The BCS status is already shaky with 8 football schools playing 7 conference games. Adding only mid-majors like Memphis or UCF won't ease the minds of the BCS on the Big East deserving BCS status, but adding Kansas, K-State, Mizzou, and Iowa State will, and it also provides protection in case one or two football schools do end up leaving.
Sports radio station in Kansas City, "reporting" that BE officials are meeting with Kansas officials.
http://twitter.com/610SportsKC/status/15878377029 (http://twitter.com/610SportsKC/status/15878377029)
Quote from: Stone Cold on June 10, 2010, 07:55:59 PM
Sports radio station in Kansas City, "reporting" that BE officials are meeting with Kansas officials.
http://twitter.com/610SportsKC/status/15878377029 (http://twitter.com/610SportsKC/status/15878377029)
This is the first sign I've seen of the Big East being proactive. I hope its true and its just the start.
20 team Big East, with 12 FB only schools??
Big East A (football)
Big East East
Pitt
WVU
Rutgers
UConn
USF
Syracuse
Big East West
Cincy
Louisville
Kansas
Kansas St
Iowa St
Missouri/Baylor
Big East B (basketball)
Villanova
Georgetown
St. John's
Seton Hall
Providence
DePaul
Marquette
Notre Dame