MUScoop

ESPN has DJ rated at 80, and at 196 he just makes the top two hundred, not of players, BUT of 2 guards!

I have this recurring vision of Big East coaches* turning around to their assistants during a game and yelling;





*with the exception of Huggins who recruited him and Jay Wright

A.  As many of us have stated numerous times, espn's recruiting rankings are mediocre at best.  They don't exactly put much effort into it.

And

B.  Kids are typically noticed the most in the summer leagues where scouts sit and watch multiple games throughout the course of a day, of which, DJ did not partake too much in.  That being said, if you're not out there, you're not seen. 

Quote from: LittleMurs on June 04, 2010, 05:17:07 PM
ESPN has DJ rated at 80, and at 196 he just makes the top two hundred, not of players, BUT of 2 guards!

I have this recurring vision of Big East coaches* turning around to their assistants during a game and yelling;

"Who is this Guy?"

DJ was a top 20 player in Philly - nuf said





*with the exception of Huggins who recruited him and Jay Wright

 philly public school player of the year. Class 2a state player of the year, 1st team all state all classifications, 1st team all city of philadelphia public catholic and private school. Mcdonalds top 100 nominee. I could go on an on about his individual accolades but the ranked or not this kid can flat out play. Stop hating on a kid and start supporting all kids ranked or not. This kid will be an asset to mu bball sooner than later and im praying for him and all the guys. God bless the haters to im praying for yall also.

Quote from: PhillyCoach on June 05, 2010, 08:34:12 AM
philly public school player of the year. Class 2a state player of the year, 1st team all state all classifications, 1st team all city of philadelphia public catholic and private school. Mcdonalds top 100 nominee. I could go on an on about his individual accolades but the ranked or not this kid can flat out play. Stop hating on a kid and start supporting all kids ranked or not. This kid will be an asset to mu bball sooner than later and im praying for him and all the guys. God bless the haters to im praying for yall also.

Think Murs meant it has a compliment, meaning DJ is our next hidden jewel. 

Last year BE coaches had no idea who Darius Johnson-Odom was and were just left in awe in seeing him game after game torch them.

Thanks again for being here Philly.

Little Murs wasn't hating.  He was just stating that he is underrated and will surprise a lot of people once the season starts.

Quote from: PhillyCoach on June 05, 2010, 08:34:12 AM
Stop hating on a kid and start supporting all kids ranked or not.

Nothing anyone has said in this thread could be interpreted as "hating" on DJ Newbill.    Please, do not go around suggesting anything of the sort, as it's just flatly wrong and totally unhelpful.

Obviously, Buzz saw the talent early on DJ.  He invited his coach and DJ to an MU elite camp.  He saw first
hand many of a good players attributes at the Al, playing against other good players.  Basically a three day
try-out.  There was 30 kids there, IWB was impressed with him and rated him highly.  Secondly, it is not like
MU does not have talent already here, have to look at a kid 2 to 3 years down the road.  Does he work hard,
does he want to get better, etc.

I am sure Phllycoach is a nice addition to the forum, can you get another Philly kid here in the future?  

The first post was not a hate post, but I had to read it twice to figure that out. It would have been started off by saying he is going to surprise a lot of coaches instead of pointing out his low ratings. Anyways I am a big Newbill fan. Part of it is his name. I am old"Bill" and he is Newbill. You find reasons to like players you have never seen. The best nickmane ever in my book is "Big Ox" and I hope that sticks with Gardner here even if he losses weight.

Quote from: reinko on June 05, 2010, 08:46:15 AM
Think Murs meant it has a compliment, meaning DJ is our next hidden jewel. 

Last year BE coaches had no idea who Darius Johnson-Odom was and were just left in awe in seeing him game after game torch them.

Thanks again for being here Philly.

If it was meant as a compliment, as I think it was, it would be good if posters would not start out by placing the emphasis on the low numbers.  As stated before, it is not helpful to accent the negative. One can, if one wants to pay a compliment, emphasize the positive.  This is not rocket science.  This is our guy.  Let's make him feel welcome.

Coach... no hating. It was definitely a compliment.

I think alot of people are curious/excited to see what DJ can do. Last year, when Darius Johnson-Odom committed, nobody knew who the hell he was...and he turned in a great year and will be very important to MU the next two hears.

Quote from: Eford4President2012 on June 05, 2010, 08:46:53 AM
Little Murs wasn't hating.  He was just stating that he is underrated and will surprise a lot of people once the season starts.

+1

Looking forward to watching him play for the next four years.

Dominic James > Darius Johnson-Odom > DJ Newbill...

I'd say that we move toward more DJs and less Williamses! Lol

Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 05, 2010, 01:02:05 PM
Dominic James > Darius Johnson-Odom > DJ Newbill...

I'd say that we move toward more DJs and less Williamses! Lol

Maybe just more 30+ year old Williamses.  :D

Quote from: PhillyCoach on June 05, 2010, 08:34:12 AM
philly public school player of the year. Class 2a state player of the year, 1st team all state all classifications, 1st team all city of philadelphia public catholic and private school. Mcdonalds top 100 nominee. I could go on an on about his individual accolades but the ranked or not this kid can flat out play. Stop hating on a kid and start supporting all kids ranked or not. This kid will be an asset to mu bball sooner than later and im praying for him and all the guys. God bless the haters to im praying for yall also.

There hasnt been a single post I have seen that is negative on this young man. We love him, and are grateful he is joining MU.
The theme has been all along that he didnt get the recruiting rating he deserved and we all think he will be a pleasant to great surprise to anyone who overlooked him. Joining the MU family results in great support and hope for any new player--please dont assume bad intentions of any poster, or the need to pray for them, ...let us all center our  support and prayers for DJ's happiness, education and success.

i apologize if the thread wasnt neg but i didnt read anything pos in it i just saw the point of a low ranking by espn scouts. When u read it i seems neg. It would also be nice for the writer of the thread to express what he meant by the comment.

things just get lost in translation with these blogs. but i gotta say there's nothing more exciting than a hidden gem, and i think everyone wants to see that with DJ. just like with wes in the NBA, no one saw it coming. i keep telling my friends that DJ is the next coming of Wade. haha, of course that's just me being ridiculous, but it's somewhat similar. I wasn't here when wade was here but from what i've heard, he wasn't heavily recruited either out of another big city. so, everyone's excited for this class and especially DJ. 2 yrs and we'll make a deep run.

Quote from: PhillyCoach on June 06, 2010, 02:20:06 PM
i apologize if the thread wasnt neg but i didnt read anything pos in it i just saw the point of a low ranking by espn scouts. When u read it i seems neg. It would also be nice for the writer of the thread to express what he meant by the comment.

The key for those of us used to Marquette was the "coaches turning to assistants saying 'Who IS this guy?". He's just pointing out that in the next couple years, the Big East coaches are going to be wondering how Buzz swooped out of Milwaukee and plucked a prize gem off the East Coast that they failed to uncover themselves ;)

Quote from: PhillyCoach on June 06, 2010, 02:20:06 PM
i apologize if the thread wasnt neg but i didnt read anything pos in it i just saw the point of a low ranking by espn scouts. When u read it i seems neg. It would also be nice for the writer of the thread to express what he meant by the comment.

Coach... Recruit rankings, especially those of ESPN, have been a running joke on this board for the last year.  With exception to the five star recruits, not a lot of MU fans take rankings seriously.  When some of us do talk rankings, most of the time we're doing so tongue-in-cheek.  Recent examples of unranked/under-ranked players such as Jimmy Butler, DJO, etc. (even Lazar was rated "three star" by some people) and over-ranked players whose names shall go unmentioned here have many of the MU faithful skeptical of these services.

Accordingly, some of us do enjoy taking any opportunity we can to point out the incompetence and/or ignorance of the people rating these HS kids.

Quote from: PhillyCoach on June 06, 2010, 02:20:06 PM
i apologize if the thread wasnt neg but i didnt read anything pos in it i just saw the point of a low ranking by espn scouts. When u read it i seems neg. It would also be nice for the writer of the thread to express what he meant by the comment.

I don't think the writer of this thread has to "express what he meant."

It is obvious what he meant.  He used italics on the word "is" to portray a flabbergasted opposing coach watching DJ tear up his zone. 

I enjoyed LittleMurs creative method of opening this thread, and while it took me a moment to "get it," I don't think we should be criticizing his obvious attempt to shoot down ESPN and lift up DJ.

Who are you?  Newbill's attorney?

Quote from: haymaker on June 07, 2010, 09:43:55 AM
I don't think the writer of this thread has to "express what he meant."

It is obvious what he meant.  He used italics on the word "is" to portray a flabbergasted opposing coach watching DJ tear up his zone. 

I enjoyed LittleMurs creative method of opening this thread, and while it took me a moment to "get it," I don't think we should be criticizing his obvious attempt to shoot down ESPN and lift up DJ.

Who are you?  Newbill's attorney?

No, he's Newbill's high school BB Coach (almost the same thing)

Quote from: PhillyCoach on June 06, 2010, 02:20:06 PM
i apologize if the thread wasnt neg but i didnt read anything pos in it i just saw the point of a low ranking by espn scouts. When u read it i seems neg. It would also be nice for the writer of the thread to express what he meant by the comment.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, PhillyCoach.  My point was that some excellent players slip under the radar each year, and those coaches who overrely on the recruiting services, do so at their peril. With Williams and Crean, Marquette has a tradition of seeking out such players.  I specifically mentioned Huggins because I know he was well aware of DJ's ability and was recruiting him too.  

Thus, I see coaches who didn't do their homework getting exasperated during a game against Marquette where DJ is putting the hurt on them when they didn't even think to recruit him.

I think that its fair to say that the consensus on this board is that scouting service rankings are an okay starting point, but should always be taken with a grain of salt.

I probably over emphasized the poor ESPN ranking at the start because I was being negative, not about DJ, but about ESPN for being so completely out of the ballpark in its ranking of DJ.  Usually ESPN catches on a at least a little bit when a player receives interest from high major schools.  For instance, Davante Gardner who Marquette also signed this spring started out the spring signing period ranked a 70, by the time he made his decision to sign he was moved up to an 88.    How ESPN did not reevaluate DJ after Marquette, West Virginia and other top schools started to recruit DJ, I can't figure out.  So I think it'll be especially fun at the beginning of the season when other teams that we play first realize that they missed the boat on a great one from Philly!

Quote from: Benny B on June 07, 2010, 09:31:09 AM
Coach... Recruit rankings, especially those of ESPN, have been a running joke on this board for the last year.  With exception to the five star recruits, not a lot of MU fans take rankings seriously.  When some of us do talk rankings, most of the time we're doing so tongue-in-cheek.  Recent examples of unranked/under-ranked players such as Jimmy Butler, DJO, etc. (even Lazar was rated "three star" by some people) and over-ranked players whose names shall go unmentioned here have many of the MU faithful skeptical of these services.

Accordingly, some of us do enjoy taking any opportunity we can to point out the incompetence and/or ignorance of the people rating these HS kids.

Exact-a-mundo!

Quote from: haymaker on June 07, 2010, 09:43:55 AM
I don't think the writer of this thread has to "express what he meant."

It is obvious what he meant.  He used italics on the word "is" to portray a flabbergasted opposing coach watching DJ tear up his zone. 

I enjoyed LittleMurs creative method of opening this thread, and while it took me a moment to "get it," I don't think we should be criticizing his obvious attempt to shoot down ESPN and lift up DJ.

Who are you?  Newbill's attorney?

Italics, bold, and other formating don't appear when viewing the 'scoop with a phone.  Settle down chief.

Quote from: haymaker on June 07, 2010, 09:43:55 AM
I don't think the writer of this thread has to "express what he meant."

It is obvious what he meant.  He used italics on the word "is" to portray a flabbergasted opposing coach watching DJ tear up his zone. 

I enjoyed LittleMurs creative method of opening this thread, and while it took me a moment to "get it," I don't think we should be criticizing his obvious attempt to shoot down ESPN and lift up DJ.

Who are you?  Newbill's attorney?

Thanks for clarifying that you understood what I meant.  (everyone else who did the same, thanks to you guys too)
I think that the first two to post got the wrong idea, and that's the reason PhillyCoach thought I was getting down on DJ.

again i apologize littlemurs for misunderstanding ur comment regarding espns rating of dj. Philly is a hotbed for prep talent but alot of our player go unnoticed. Its a shame these kids get rated off aau ball and camps. But i can clearly see ur point. Pride does not live here. I hope theres no hard feelings. And to the one who said am i his attorney the answer is yes. Im his coach his mentor his pastor his brother and what ever he needs me to be. I say that bcause in the urban part of philly i havent coach one kid in the past five years that had a strong male presence in their life so ive taken that role. Not to bragg or boast but thats who i am to alot of kids . So if i think someone is neg toward my guys i step in a advocate on their behalf thats all no pun intended.

Quote from: PhillyCoach on June 08, 2010, 11:25:56 PM
again i apologize littlemurs for misunderstanding ur comment regarding espns rating of dj. Philly is a hotbed for prep talent but alot of our player go unnoticed. Its a shame these kids get rated off aau ball and camps. But i can clearly see ur point. Pride does not live here. I hope theres no hard feelings. And to the one who said am i his attorney the answer is yes. Im his coach his mentor his pastor his brother and what ever he needs me to be. I say that bcause in the urban part of philly i havent coach one kid in the past five years that had a strong male presence in their life so ive taken that role. Not to bragg or boast but thats who i am to alot of kids . So if i think someone is neg toward my guys i step in a advocate on their behalf thats all no pun intended.

It's unfortunate that not every urban youth can play organized ball, but even then, not everyone gets to play for a coach who honestly cares for his players on and off the court.

Something tells me DJ is going to fit in just fine with Buzz and MU.

Quote from: reinko on June 07, 2010, 12:35:46 PM
Italics, bold, and other formating don't appear when viewing the 'scoop with a phone.  Settle down chief.

The italics, bold, and formatting play a minor, minor role in understanding the first post.  I think as readers, we should give the writers the benefit of the doubt and always consider the limitations of text communication before "praying for the haters" as Mr. Laws has done for LittleMurs.  But thanks for listening, chief.

Quote from: PhillyCoach on June 08, 2010, 11:25:56 PM
And to the one who said am i his attorney the answer is yes. Im his coach his mentor his pastor his brother and what ever he needs me to be. I say that bcause in the urban part of philly i havent coach one kid in the past five years that had a strong male presence in their life so ive taken that role. Not to bragg or boast but thats who i am to alot of kids . So if i think someone is neg toward my guys i step in a advocate on their behalf thats all no pun intended.

I'm convinced DJ will arrive with a solid foundation.  No disrespect meant, I am new here and didn't know where you were coming from.

Quote from: LittleMurs on June 07, 2010, 12:22:23 PM
Sorry for the misunderstanding, PhillyCoach.  My point was that some excellent players slip under the radar each year, and those coaches who overrely on the recruiting services, do so at their peril. With Williams and Crean, Marquette has a tradition of seeking out such players.  I specifically mentioned Huggins because I know he was well aware of DJ's ability and was recruiting him too.  

Thus, I see coaches who didn't do their homework getting exasperated during a game against Marquette where DJ is putting the hurt on them when they didn't even think to recruit him.

I think that its fair to say that the consensus on this board is that scouting service rankings are an okay starting point, but should always be taken with a grain of salt.

I probably over emphasized the poor ESPN ranking at the start because I was being negative, not about DJ, but about ESPN for being so completely out of the ballpark in its ranking of DJ.  Usually ESPN catches on a at least a little bit when a player receives interest from high major schools.  For instance, Davante Gardner who Marquette also signed this spring started out the spring signing period ranked a 70, by the time he made his decision to sign he was moved up to an 88.    How ESPN did not reevaluate DJ after Marquette, West Virginia and other top schools started to recruit DJ, I can't figure out.  So I think it'll be especially fun at the beginning of the season when other teams that we play first realize that they missed the boat on a great one from Philly!

Little Murs  I agree with 99% of the things you say , but i have to ask who are the Unheralded recruits that Crean brought in that coaches had asking themsleves who is this guy?
And dont even go the Dwade route.  he was the #2 rated player in Illinois behind HS to NBa lottery pick Darius Miles. He was a top 50 recruit in a number of rankings and had he the grades would have gone the route of a Kansas, etc type of program.  

Please name the unheralded recruits that Crean got.  I would make the argument that Creans lack of depth and bad years after Dwade left etc. were due to just the opposite.  ODB, Wade, Jackson, Merritt, Novak, and Diener were the heart and sole of his first few successful teams and they were all heavily recruited ( sans wade due to grades) top 100 to top 50 recruits.  After that the team struggled as the only real talent was Diener, Mason, and Novak all Top 50-75 recruits.  

Then he signed 3 top 100 kids in the 3 amigos and while they were very talented the recurring theme was no size and no depth.  Barro was also borderline top 100.  Who of all the revolving door of other players was a surprise?  Berkowitz, Lott, Kinsella, Christian, Menard, James Mathews, Bell, Mortensen, Burke, Hazel, etc. etc. etc.  you have difficulty winning in the Horizon with that group.  

Coach or anyone who has seen DJ,

DJ seems to be working hard and can score by all accounts.  Can you give us some insights into DJ's defense?  Can he guard a point guard or small forward?  Does he have quick hands?  Get steals?  Any other insights?

.

Quote from: HoopsMalone on June 09, 2010, 09:23:21 AM
Coach or anyone who has seen DJ,

DJ seems to be working hard and can score by all accounts.  Can you give us some insights into DJ's defense?  Can he guard a point guard or small forward?  Does he have quick hands?  Get steals?  Any other insights?

I believe Philly coach posted earlier in this that he felt DJ could guard the 1-3 positions if needed...he is that versatile.

Wade was not the #2 player in Illinois.

He didn't even start on his AAU team and finished 7th in the Mr. Basketball voting as a senior.

He was rated in the top 50 by 1 service that I remember.

Here are the top 100 Illinois kids according to RSCI for that year....

3. Miles
11. Andre Brown
18. Imari Sawyer
20 Cedric Banks
28 TJ Cummings
60 Matt Lottich

Quote from: Canadian Dimes on June 09, 2010, 09:22:07 AM
Little Murs  I agree with 99% of the things you say , but i have to ask who are the Unheralded recruits that Crean brought in that coaches had asking themsleves who is this guy?
And dont even go the Dwade route.  he was the #2 rated player in Illinois behind HS to NBa lottery pick Darius Miles. He was a top 50 recruit in a number of rankings and had he the grades would have gone the route of a Kansas, etc type of program.  

Please name the unheralded recruits that Crean got.  I would make the argument that Creans lack of depth and bad years after Dwade left etc. were due to just the opposite.  ODB, Wade, Jackson, Merritt, Novak, and Diener were the heart and sole of his first few successful teams and they were all heavily recruited ( sans wade due to grades) top 100 to top 50 recruits.  After that the team struggled as the only real talent was Diener, Mason, and Novak all Top 50-75 recruits.  

Then he signed 3 top 100 kids in the 3 amigos and while they were very talented the recurring theme was no size and no depth.  Barro was also borderline top 100.  Who of all the revolving door of other players was a surprise?  Berkowitz, Lott, Kinsella, Christian, Menard, James Mathews, Bell, Mortensen, Burke, Hazel, etc. etc. etc.  you have difficulty winning in the Horizon with that group.  

I am going the Wade route, especially with the research support from MuMark above.  ODB was another good player from Illinois who didn't make the top 100, but he left after two years of not liking playing power forward.  Okay after that, you've got me.  

Quote from: MuMark on June 09, 2010, 01:45:08 PM
Wade was not the #2 player in Illinois.

He didn't even start on his AAU team and finished 7th in the Mr. Basketball voting as a senior.

He was rated in the top 50 by 1 service that I remember.

Here are the top 100 Illinois kids according to RSCI for that year....

3. Miles
11. Andre Brown
18. Imari Sawyer
20 Cedric Banks
28 TJ Cummings
60 Matt Lottich

Due to size problems, I believe that his HS had to play him out of position at center, as well.

Quote from: MuMark on June 09, 2010, 01:45:08 PM
Wade was not the #2 player in Illinois.

He didn't even start on his AAU team and finished 7th in the Mr. Basketball voting as a senior.

He was rated in the top 50 by 1 service that I remember.

Here are the top 100 Illinois kids according to RSCI for that year....

3. Miles
11. Andre Brown
18. Imari Sawyer
20 Cedric Banks
28 TJ Cummings
60 Matt Lottich

Bullseye the most highly regarded scouting service in Illionois had him as #2.  The Sid finch legend propogated by Tan Tommy had him as some two handed dribbling dweeb that Tan Tommy molded into an NBA superstar.  He was putting up 40 on numerous nights and dominating with his athleticism.  the only reason and absolutely the only reson Kansas, Duke and the other elite programs were not all over him is becuase he would not be eleigible and the ACC, Big 12 etc could not take non-qualifiers.