Uh-oh
This has the PAC-10 "prepared" to offer--possibly this weekend with their conference meetings beginning in San Francisco--Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma and Colorado to join its league. These schools would then combine with Arizona and Arizona State to form an 8 team division in the PAC-10.
http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1090747
Also mentions that Texas A&M and Oklahoma might resist, since they have had some serious talks and might be "enamored" with joining the SEC.
I could definitely see schools giving the finger to the Big 10 by making a seperate super conference for football.
Quote from: KCMarq09 on June 03, 2010, 02:51:15 PM
This has the PAC-10 "prepared" to offer--possibly this weekend with their conference meetings beginning in San Francisco--Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma and Colorado to join its league. These schools would then combine with Arizona and Arizona State to form an 8 team division in the PAC-10.
http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1090747
Also mentions that Texas A&M might resist, since they have had some serious talks about going to the SEC.
NFW will A&M split from UT....they are a pair thanks to the largess of the permanent university fund, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_University_Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_University_Fund) and the state's constitution which stipulates that the fund pay out 2/3 of the proceeds to UT system and 1/3 to the A&M system. Big $$, bigger politics.
The Pac Ten has their television deal up in 2011 which is driving their move. We have also heard out here that they want Texas, A&M, Colorado, Utah, BYU and Colorado State.
4 conferences with 16 teams. No more Big East, no more Big 12. All very possible. Of course, just because these schools are invited doesn't mean they are going. Texas will be the biggest winner in all of this because they get to choose more than anyone else.
I hope Cottingham has a plan
Quote from: NYWarrior on June 03, 2010, 02:55:31 PM
NFW will A&M split from UT....they are a pair thanks to the largess of the permanent university fund, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_University_Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_University_Fund) and the state's constitution which stipulates that the fund pay out 2/3 of the proceeds to UT system and 1/3 to the A&M system. Big $$, bigger politics.
Agreed the PUF and state control keep UT and A&M joined at the hip. The 2 have never been in different conferences and they have a huge FB rivalry game. Okla was in Big 8 when UT was in SWC, so the red river shootout is in Dallas during fair week. The easiest for UT is to bring OKla and A&M w/them in conf realignment.
The Pac 10 target group leaves interesting orphans, esp in BB---Kansas, K-state and Baylor are left as free agents if: 1) pac ten gets this group and 2) Neb./Missou go to Big 10.
Makes sense as those are major state universities that offer multiple sports, are highly competitive, and have a large fan base.
If it goes down, the following Learfield Sports Directors' Cup nee Sear's Cup would be dominated by the Pac-10. Here's the 2008-09 Final Top 50 listing with the current and possible future members of the Pac-10 (which may need a new moniker!).
1 Stanford
2 North Carolina
3 Florida
4 Southern California
5 Michigan
6 Texas
7 California
8 Virginia
9 Louisiana State U.
10 Ohio State
11 Washington
12 Arizona State
13 Texas A&M
14 Minnesota
15 Florida State
16 UCLA
17 Duke (N.C.)
18 Georgia
19 Penn State
20 Illinois
21 Notre Dame
22 Oregon
23 Tennessee
24 Arizona
25 Arkansas
26 Auburn
27 Michigan State
28 Maryland
29 Oklahoma
30 Alabama
31 Nebraska
32 Louisville
33 Baylor (Tex.)
34 Kentucky
35 Oklahoma State
36 Missouri
37 Wake Forest
38 Purdue
39 South Carolina
40 Princeton (N.J.)
41 Wisconsin
42 Texas Christian U.
43 Miami (Fla.)
44 Northwestern
45 Iowa
46 Virginia Tech
47 Brigham Young (Utah)
48 Georgia Tech
49 Boise State
50 West Virginia
Quote from: damuts222 on June 03, 2010, 02:53:57 PM
I could definitely see schools giving the finger to the Big 10 by making a seperate super conference for football.
That really isn't giving the finger to the Big Ten. Outside of some early speculation, the Big Ten wasn't looking seriously at the Texas schools any longer...but mostly schools like Nebraska and Missouri...as well as BE schools.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 03, 2010, 04:27:50 PM
That really isn't giving the finger to the Big Ten. Outside of some early speculation, the Big Ten wasn't looking seriously at the Texas schools any longer...but mostly schools like Nebraska and Missouri...as well as BE schools.
probably won't happen, but how great would it be to see the Big 12 poach 1, 2 or 3 big 10 schools. :D
I'll believe it when I see it.
I'm sure Cottingham has the same plan as Georgetown and Villanova.
When MU was in CUSA they didn't "have a plan" to join the Big East. Circumstances changed and MU took advantage of the opportunity.
If we end up worse off now it won't be because Cottingham didn't have a plan.
I'm sure Steve is talking with the other basketball only schools on a regular basis but if all hell breaks loose we are still going to end up in a league not as good as the Big East is now.
Thats just reality...no sense in worrying about what you can't control.
Like Raymonds had a plan to join the Midwestern Cities Conference when he was AD.
IF this goes down, this might actually be fairly interesting, given that Boise State is about to join the Mountain West, and you'd have six orphans out of the Big 12.
You'd have to think that the Big 10, while they would love to go East for the TV markets, would salivate at poaching Kansas in addition to Nebraska and Mizzou. Yeah, K-State and Iowa State don't necessarily bring much in terms of TV (you already have Kansas and Iowa covering those states), but that would give them a nice round 16, and some natural rivalries. Baylor would slot in nicely with the Mountain West as an 11th team, and the Mountain West could bring over Fresno State as a 12th.
So your Big 16 and Mountain West would look like this:
Big 10 East
Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern
Big 10 West
Wisconsin, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa, Iowa State, Minnesota, Kansas State
Mountain West (East)
TCU, Baylor, Air Force, Colorado State, New Mexico, BYU
Mountain West (West)
San Diego State, Utah, Boise State, UNLV, Fresno State, Wyoming
Still not sure the Big East would be completely out of the woods; UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers, and Pitt could slot into the ACC as a northern division with Boston College, Maryland, Virginia, and Virginia Tech. West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, and USF would pair nicely with the rest of the SEC geographically. ND and Memphis would be massive losers in this scenario.
Buckle up folks, it's still gonna be a long ride.
Quote from: MuMark on June 03, 2010, 05:53:21 PM
Thats just reality...no sense in worrying about what you can't control.
The point is to try and get into a position where you have SOME control over some aspects to it. I have to agree that Cottingham is talking to other schools (he sure as hell better be) to at least gauge what everyone is doing.
Maybe the Big East basketball schools stay in tact, keep the name, add the A-10 and a few others, who knows.
I just hope we aren't sitting around and waiting for the music to stop and waiting to see if there are any chairs left. MU is in a tough spot on this because we chose to ditch football, pray we stay good and relevant the next few years.
By the way, can you imagine where we would be if the administration, TC, Dwyane Wade, etc didn't put us back on the map in the 2000s? Basically MU would be done....toast...
Ahhhhhhhhh.....capitalism at its best. ;)
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on June 03, 2010, 07:54:31 PM
IF this goes down, this might actually be fairly interesting, given that Boise State is about to join the Mountain West, and you'd have six orphans out of the Big 12.
You'd have to think that the Big 10, while they would love to go East for the TV markets, would salivate at poaching Kansas in addition to Nebraska and Mizzou. Yeah, K-State and Iowa State don't necessarily bring much in terms of TV (you already have Kansas and Iowa covering those states), but that would give them a nice round 16, and some natural rivalries. Baylor would slot in nicely with the Mountain West as an 11th team, and the Mountain West could bring over Fresno State as a 12th.
So your Big 16 and Mountain West would look like this:
Big 10 East
Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern
Big 10 West
Wisconsin, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa, Iowa State, Minnesota, Kansas State
The Big Ten is not going to add market redundant schools like Iowa State, and two schools from Kansas. *Maybe* one...KU...but that's it. They will look east.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 03, 2010, 09:19:50 PM
The Big Ten is not going to add market redundant schools like Iowa State, and two schools from Kansas. *Maybe* one...KU...but that's it. They will look east.
Agree. If the Pac 10 is interested in these 6 and the Big Ten in Nebraska and Mizzou, Kansas will find a home in either the Big Ten or SEC. Baylor and Iowa State would be looking at the Mountain West or Conference USA. Kansas State would be begging the SEC for an invite.
Something I've been considering...if everything gets crazy the math just doesn't add up for the Big East football schools unless everything falls into place perfectly with everyone expanding to 16+ and taking no current mid-majors like UCF, Memphis, and the Pac 10 not taking Utah or BYU, etc.. What happens
if when a Louisville and/or Cincinnati ends up getting shafted? Do they really leave the Big East to join the MAC or go back to Conference USA? Or could the situation given the circumstances create more "football only" situations like Temple currently has with the MAC? The MAC would welcome more "name" schools that have some leverage on where they dump their shafted but still revenue-producing football programs, the schools get to avoid being independents in football and remain/join the Big East for basketball and other sports which is better than the MAC company, and the Big East keeps or adds some strong basketball programs. If they can't get in the SEC or ACC, the same situation might wind up on the minds of schools like Kansas State and Memphis as well...unrealistic that the leftovers are going to be happy as independents or even worse off mid-majors than before, and doubtful they can all unite and/or poach to form a financially and geographically sound 12-16 team football conference from scratch.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 03, 2010, 08:01:08 PM
I just hope we aren't sitting around and waiting for the music to stop and waiting to see if there are any chairs left. MU is in a tough spot on this because we chose to ditch football, pray we stay good and relevant the next few years.
I saw posted on the other site an article that included a part that said Cottingham and some of the other AD's from basketball-only schools or something like that. The main theme of the statement though was that he was being proactive and was making sure to have some plan in place. Like you, I was kind of worried we were just sitting back and praying it would work out well for us and if not oh well, but that article made me feel much better.
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on June 03, 2010, 07:54:31 PM
IF this goes down, this might actually be fairly interesting, given that Boise State is about to join the Mountain West, and you'd have six orphans out of the Big 12.
You'd have to think that the Big 10, while they would love to go East for the TV markets, would salivate at poaching Kansas in addition to Nebraska and Mizzou. Yeah, K-State and Iowa State don't necessarily bring much in terms of TV (you already have Kansas and Iowa covering those states), but that would give them a nice round 16, and some natural rivalries. Baylor would slot in nicely with the Mountain West as an 11th team, and the Mountain West could bring over Fresno State as a 12th.
So your Big 16 and Mountain West would look like this:
Big 10 East
Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern
Big 10 West
Wisconsin, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa, Iowa State, Minnesota, Kansas State
Mountain West (East)
TCU, Baylor, Air Force, Colorado State, New Mexico, BYU
Mountain West (West)
San Diego State, Utah, Boise State, UNLV, Fresno State, Wyoming
Still not sure the Big East would be completely out of the woods; UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers, and Pitt could slot into the ACC as a northern division with Boston College, Maryland, Virginia, and Virginia Tech. West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, and USF would pair nicely with the rest of the SEC geographically. ND and Memphis would be massive losers in this scenario.
Buckle up folks, it's still gonna be a long ride.
Here is my nationwide Football realignment, based solely on 2 very logical shifts of B10 and Pac 10...here goes:
1) Pac 10 announcement is a seismic shift proposal.
UT, A&M, Okla., Okl. State, Texas Tech and Colorado join Ariz and ASU in the 8 team Pac East, with the other 8 pac teams being in the PAC west. This covers 3 time zones, and allows a TV contract with Fox, Comcast/NBC or ESPN/ABC to broadcast , every Saturday to include an afternoon P10 East game, with a night P10 West game from west coast.With most of USA, west of mississippi covered, a league network is logical--on par w/B10
2) Cards fall into place quickly. Go to a 16 team Big ten with Nebraska and Mizzou joining in the Big ten west: Nebraska, Missouri, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois Wisconsin Northwestern, Illinois,
The Big Ten East is: Purdue, Michigan, MSU, OSU, Penn State, Indiana, Notre Dame (look at ND schedule—they get their big time regular games and can keep USC as an annual non conf rivalry), and Rutgers (NY TV, and games in the meadowlands)
3) SEC goes to 14-16, by poaching their own back yard.
SEC West: LSU, Miss, Miss ST. Ark. Kentucky, Tennessee, Vandy, (Clemson if to 16)
SEC East: Fla., Fla St. Miami, Georgia, Ala., South carolina Auburn, (Georgia Tech if to 16)
The SEC push to 16 would be in response to Pac 10 and Big ten moves to the same, and presumes it could poach Miami and Geo Tech (neither school is very SEC like,), but an SEC super conference may be req'd for the Big $$, if the other 2 (B10 & P10) land on the same size
4) A new 16 team Conf of football/bb is easily assembled from the Mountain Prairie carnage (which will fight for BCS status):;
NEW WEST:Boise state, UNLV Fresno State Utah, San diego State, Byu, Air Force, Colo St
NEW EAST: TCU, Kansas, K State, Iowa State, New Mexico, UTEP, Houston, Baylor,
So....
5)This would leave ACC FB to combine w /big east FB to get a BCS level 16 team super conference:
BE/ACC South: NC, Duke, Nc State, Maryland Virginia, Wake forest, USF, UCF(conf USA)
BE/ACC North: Boston college, Uconn, Pitt, Cincinnati, West Virginia Va Tech, Louisville, Syracuse
This was done to see if 5 major FB conferences could/would result from the P10 and B10 making logical moves to do so.
I would think, actually, ... The SEC expansion would be a modest 2 teams, to go to 14 , with ACC having plenty left (10) to poach Big east to recover from its loss—if you were Uconn, West Virginia, Louisville and (Cincinatti/Pitt) , would 4 of you accept , to get a 14 team ACC ---esp as best basketball conf moniker would then shift to the ACC?
What of MU? Its poss time for a group of schools to put together the BB only dominant conference, combining carnage of BE w best of /atl 10 or the cathl schools conf—emphasizing BB,...and returning to the ole CYO bb roots!
And now you know why I wanted an expansion of the NCAA tournament
Quote from: houwarrior on June 03, 2010, 10:38:31 PM
What of MU? Its poss time for a group of schools to put together the BB only dominant conference, combining carnage of BE w best of /atl 10 or the cathl schools conf—emphasizing BB,...and returning to the ole CYO bb roots!
Did you get tired of typing full words at the end?
Also, I find it hard to believe that if this were to go down the best Kansas could do would be to wind up in a conference whose highest profile members are K State, Iowa State, Utah, etc. I know that football drives it and they aren't too strong in that area, but that's too big a school to end up there.
Quote from: houwarrior on June 03, 2010, 10:38:31 PM
3) SEC goes to 14-16, by poaching their own back yard.
SEC West: LSU, Miss, Miss ST. Ark. Kentucky, Tennessee, Vandy, (Clemson if to 16)
SEC East: Fla., Fla St. Miami, Georgia, Ala., South carolina Auburn, (Georgia Tech if to 16)
The SEC push to 16 would be in response to Pac 10 and Big ten moves to the same, and presumes it could poach Miami and Geo Tech (neither school is very SEC like,), but an SEC super conference may be req'd for the Big $$,
First of all, Georgia Tech was an original member of the SEC and I believe was in the conference until the early 70s.
Second, there will be no requirement to go to 16 teams to get big $$$. Unless expansion opens *new markets* it makes no sense whatsoever to expand. The key is increasing the per school revenue, and adding teams already in SEC markets, doesn't accomplish this at all.
Furthermore, the SEC may have troubles expanding at all because of their television contracts with ESPN and CBS. While very lucrative, there iks apparently no clause for expansion. So even if they could land a couple of Texas schools, they would now be dividing the pie 14 ways instead of 12. In the long run it would make financial sense, but in the short run they would have to sacrifice.
That is why the BTN was a much better method of expanding TV rights.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 03, 2010, 11:28:57 PM
And now you know why I wanted an expansion of the NCAA tournament
Forgive me for being dense...what's the connection?
This rumor is DEFINITELY NOT TRUE. I thought Tagliabue said he was going to be proactive? The BE will be making the FIRST move, not the PAC10.
Quote from: IAmMarquette on June 04, 2010, 08:40:01 AM
Forgive me for being dense...what's the connection?
I believe he thinks that we'll be pushed out of the major conferences and into something considered mid-major. I think he also believes tournament expansion will result in more mid-major bids. Put it together and there's a better chance for MU to make tournaments if both events were to happen.
I say F 'em. Let's go back to being an independent.
Im not sure about the Independent idea. I think the A-10 sounds like a better idea to me (or wherever Nova and GTown go). Either way, the options blow.
Quote from: IAmMarquette on June 04, 2010, 08:40:01 AM
Forgive me for being dense...what's the connection?
Because if MU is put into a secondary conference, the margin for error is so much smaller. Your strength of schedule goes down (a huge part of the RPI and selection process), your ability to get top recruits could be hampered (not definite but could), power conferences currently take up most of the at-large bids.....an increase in bids would allow more secondary conferences to get bids....that's the connection.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 04, 2010, 12:11:47 PM
I say F 'em. Let's go back to being an independent.
Word.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 04, 2010, 12:11:47 PM
I say F 'em. Let's go back to being an independent.
2nd Gayest Post of All Time
The thing about Nova and GTown is that they both have successful football teams that are not BCS or whatever it is called now (think they are FBS maybe? someone please correct me I can never keep the new names straight). If this shift starts to happen they may raise them up to join a BCS conference or have a chance to. I know there was talk of it in the past, yet I do not know how close they are. So maybe it would be best if it happened soon if Nova and GTown were not able to raise the programs fast enough.
Quote from: Arod on June 04, 2010, 12:48:19 PM
The thing about Nova and GTown is that they both have successful football teams that are not BCS or whatever it is called now (think they are FBS maybe? someone please correct me I can never keep the new names straight). If this shift starts to happen they may raise them up to join a BCS conference or have a chance to. I know there was talk of it in the past, yet I do not know how close they are. So maybe it would be best if it happened soon if Nova and GTown were not able to raise the programs fast enough.
FCS - Football Championship Subdivision, where more than two media hand-picked teams play for a championship. Thing is, if you're the ACC or SEC why do you take Nova or Georgetown with a new-to-FBS program when you can get to the "ideal" number by adding Syracuse or West Virginia, or even Memphis or UCF?
Quote from: chapman on June 04, 2010, 01:49:52 PM
FCS - Football Championship Subdivision, where more than two media hand-picked teams play for a championship. Thing is, if you're the ACC or SEC why do you take Nova or Georgetown with a new-to-FBS program when you can get to the "ideal" number by adding Syracuse or West Virginia, or even Memphis or UCF?
Agreed. If SEC takes Miami and FSU (which makes sense) then the ACC should patch with BE teams by taking Syracuse (which was extended an invite the first time around) and one other school (maybe UConn so the conference can solidify the Northeast better and help out BC). If they go to 16, then throw in WV, Pitt, 'Ville and Rutgirls.
Quote from: chapman on June 04, 2010, 01:49:52 PM
FCS - Football Championship Subdivision, where more than two media hand-picked teams play for a championship. Thing is, if you're the ACC or SEC why do you take Nova or Georgetown with a new-to-FBS program when you can get to the "ideal" number by adding Syracuse or West Virginia, or even Memphis or UCF?
I work with a Nova grad who is fairly well connected. We spoke yesterday about all this and asked him what options he thought they have since they play football. He started laughing. "If you call what we have as football then I shutter to think what they play over in Alabama or USC"
This can't be right. I was told over and over again that adding teams to a big conference doesn't make sense because it wouldn't increase their TV contract enough to make up for having to split that contract with additional school.
We don't have to worry about becoming a mid major. Eventually every conference will have 14 bb schools and 12 fb schools. We'll be one of those 14 somewhere.
14 bball and 12 fball.
What makes you think that?
Quote from: Arod on June 04, 2010, 12:48:19 PM
The thing about Nova and GTown is that they both have successful football teams that are not BCS or whatever it is called now (think they are FBS maybe?
Georgetown does not have a successful football team. Nova yes...Georgetown not at all.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on June 04, 2010, 02:23:31 PM
14 bball and 12 fball.
What makes you think that?
It seems like the largest managable numbers.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 03, 2010, 08:01:08 PM
The point is to try and get into a position where you have SOME control over some aspects to it. I have to agree that Cottingham is talking to other schools (he sure as hell better be) to at least gauge what everyone is doing.
Maybe the Big East basketball schools stay in tact, keep the name, add the A-10 and a few others, who knows.
I just hope we aren't sitting around and waiting for the music to stop and waiting to see if there are any chairs left. MU is in a tough spot on this because we chose to ditch football, pray we stay good and relevant the next few years.
By the way, can you imagine where we would be if the administration, TC, Dwyane Wade, etc didn't put us back on the map in the 2000s? Basically MU would be done....toast...
Give it a rest...you're a broken record with your love for TC, and your second love which appears to be telling Cottingham to have a plan. Genius!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 03, 2010, 08:01:08 PM
By the way, can you imagine where we would be if the administration, TC, Dwyane Wade, etc didn't put us back on the map in the 2000s? Basically MU would be done....toast...
Chicos, I am sure you would agree that anything Marquette accomplishes is in spite of the administration.