http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft
nbadraft.net has Lazar becoming Mr. Irrelevant, being selected 60th by the Phoenix Suns.
I'm just happy to see his name on anyone's mock draft.
He's been hanging out at 60 on that mock draft for a while now... its the only one I've seen him on though.
As much as I love Lazar I don't see him being drafted. McNeal was supposed to be drafted in the middle of the 2nd round, so much for that. Take these mock drafts with a grain of salt. The NFL draft analysts tend to be more exact than does the NBA's, at least that is what I have found.
over beers last night we discussed the bucks taking gordon then lazar...
my personal interest might be influencing my decision but the bucks would sell tickets if Lazar was on the team.
People say, they will sell tickets no matter what, I disagree, I think when the season ended the interest (of the majority) ended.
Quote from: damuts222 on May 19, 2010, 10:13:24 AM
As much as I love Lazar I don't see him being drafted. McNeal was supposed to be drafted in the middle of the 2nd round, so much for that. Take these mock drafts with a grain of salt. The NFL draft analysts tend to be more exact than does the NBA's, at least that is what I have found.
Oh I completely agree... NBA mock drafts are especially inaccurate because the people that make them never seem to realize that lots of teams like to go European-with-upside in the second round over solid college players like Lazar. They can just leave them in Europe for a few years to develop a-la Ersan Illyasova.
I like his chances at getting drafted. If not, he will be in the league next year.
I don't think he will get drafted, but I definately think it's possible for him to make it the way Wes did.
I hope you guys are both right, but the odds are long against a free agent making a roster. They're REALLY long against becoming a starter ala Wes.
I heard someone talking about a duke player with Jay bilas and he said that a certain player may be better off undrafted so he can pick his best shot.
Could be true for Lazar. I still think a very sturdy, strong, unselfish three who can defend the post, take coaching, rebound, and is a good person is someone who can find a role as the 10-11 man of the bench.
Quote from: wyoMUfan on May 19, 2010, 10:18:00 AM
over beers last night we discussed the bucks taking gordon then lazar...
my personal interest might be influencing my decision but the bucks would sell tickets if Lazar was on the team.
People say, they will sell tickets no matter what, I disagree, I think when the season ended the interest (of the majority) ended.
I think any professional team that drafts a player in order to sell tickets should just get out of the business entirely.
I have a feeling he will be anything but irrelevant.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 19, 2010, 06:50:55 PM
I think any professional team that drafts a player in order to sell tickets should just get out of the business entirely.
Is not the "business" of a professional sports team to sell tickets?
Quote from: Benny B on May 20, 2010, 08:42:31 AM
Is not the "business" of a professional sports team to sell tickets?
The point is that you sell tickets by winning, not be signing hometown heroes who probably won't see the court.
Watching the Suns/Lakers game last night, couldn't help but see Lazar model his game after Phoenix's Jared Dudley. Very similar styles. Dudley might be better with the ball, but Lazar's a better rebounder/stronger.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 19, 2010, 12:42:24 PM
I hope you guys are both right, but the odds are long against a free agent making a roster. They're REALLY long against becoming a starter ala Wes.
Close, but not exaclty. If you have an owner that only wants to cut costs, then making the team as an undrafted free agent isnt such a long shot. The Jazz, in an effort to save money, actually started (and I assume ended) the season without a full roster.
It was a perfect situation for him. One or two of the other undrafted free agents he was competing against got hurt before camp started. Then I think there was a retirement and a long term injury for players on the roster. Throw in the cost cutting measures and an undrafted free agent beats a free agent with tenure.
No one will find a situation like that this summer.
Unfortunately I do not see Zar getting drafted. I do see him getting his opportunities in the summer league to try and play on to a roster so here's hoping he can seize the opportunity!
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 20, 2010, 08:47:08 AM
The point is that you sell tickets by winning, not be signing hometown heroes who probably won't see the court.
I agree. I get that he's a hometown guy, but if he does get drafted by the Bucks (which wont happen)/makes the roster later, he is not going to see the floor initially. If he ends up unexpectedly successful like Wes, then presumably the team is doing well and is selling tickets anyway.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 20, 2010, 08:47:08 AM
The point is that you sell tickets by winning, not be signing hometown heroes who probably won't see the court.
Sort of.
Teams do promotions all of the time to help sell tickets.
It's not just about W's.
Is signing Lazar just to sell tickets a good move? Probably not.
Do teams sign guys because they are "fan favorites" and help sell tickets? Yes. Lazar just isn't one of those guys.
Nevermind that making the playoffs is far more lucrative than selling an extra hundred tickets per game because a handful of people want to stare creepily at Lazar while he sits on the bench (or maybe plays garbage minutes his first year or two).
If the Bucks want a fan favorite, forget Lazar. Give me the BIRDMAN!!
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 20, 2010, 08:47:08 AM
The point is that you sell tickets by winning, not be signing hometown heroes who probably won't see the court.
Is winning and signing hometown heroes mutually exclusive? Because it certainly seems that Cleveland did exactly that over the past few years (LeBron being from Ohio, any way).
Further, will winning guarantee success at the box office? Absolutely not. Case in point: The Florida Marlins.
My point is that the business of sports is to sell tickets, TV advertising and sponsorships, period; in other words, increase profits. Some teams accomplish this by winning, some teams accomplish this by signing players that are a "draw," some teams will sell tickets despite their efforts (or lack of), some teams don't sign expensive players, and some teams do a combination of these four.
Winning is not the goal of a professional sports team, it is merely one of the various tools used to accomplish the goal.
Quote from: Benny B on May 20, 2010, 09:46:37 AM
Is winning and signing hometown heroes mutually exclusive? Because it certainly seems that Cleveland did exactly that over the past few years (LeBron being from Ohio, any way).
They signed him because he's Lebron-frickin'-James. If Lebron was from Slovakia, the Cavs would have still taken him with the first pick.
The Bucks aren't going to sell any more tickets because Lazar Hayward is on the team. If the Bucks think he is the best fit, thent by all means draft him...just don't do it because he's from Marquette.
Quote from: Benny B on May 20, 2010, 09:46:37 AM
Winning is not the goal of a professional sports team, it is merely one of the various tools used to accomplish the goal.
You must be a Bud Seilig fan! I didnt think any existed.
Oh, and dont tell Steinbrenner that winning is not the goal of a team; he'll rip your throat out.
Quote from: Benny B on May 20, 2010, 09:46:37 AM
Is winning and signing hometown heroes mutually exclusive? Because it certainly seems that Cleveland did exactly that over the past few years (LeBron being from Ohio, any way).
Further, will winning guarantee success at the box office? Absolutely not. Case in point: The Florida Marlins.
My point is that the business of sports is to sell tickets, TV advertising and sponsorships, period; in other words, increase profits. Some teams accomplish this by winning, some teams accomplish this by signing players that are a "draw," some teams will sell tickets despite their efforts (or lack of), some teams don't sign expensive players, and some teams do a combination of these four.
Winning is not the goal of a professional sports team, it is merely one of the various tools used to accomplish the goal.
Basically, what SoSW said, with the addition that teams in Florida typically don't sell tickets to anything. Look at the Heat. Look at the Marlins. There are a lot more things to do in Miami other than sit inside and watch a basketball game, or sit in the sweltering heat and watch a baseball game. Miami is a terrible sports town, despite the fact that it is a huge market.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on May 20, 2010, 09:58:07 AM
You must be a Bud Seilig fan! I didnt think any existed.
Oh, and dont tell Steinbrenner that winning is not the goal of a team; he'll rip your throat out.
Big Stein only cares about winning because he can afford to.
Truthfully, pro sports are a mix of owners ego (ie winning) and making $.
That balance isn't the same for every owner, but rest assured these rich guys didn't get rich by getting in on losing investments.
If the goal was really championships (winning), teams wouldn't put luxury boxes close to the field. They'd put bleacher seats and pack people in (create the best home court/field advantage).
Making $ is important.
This is why Huizenga holds a special place in my heart.
The way in which he so easily 'bought' a World Series Championship and then dismantled the team immediately afterward was beautiful. Anyone that can make a mockery of baseball economics is a friend of mine.
The NFL is another story. In fact, the NFL is closest thing we have ever had in the history of the world that best represents socialist ideals (at least according to a Princeton econ prof who's name is escaping me at the moment). It's virtually impossible to "buy" a championship.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on May 20, 2010, 11:21:15 AM
This is why Huizenga holds a special place in my heart.
The way in which he so easily 'bought' a World Series Championship and then dismantled the team immediately afterward was beautiful. Anyone that can make a mockery of baseball economics is a friend of mine.
The NFL is another story. In fact, the NFL is closest thing we have ever had in the history of the world that best represents socialist ideals (at least according to a Princeton econ prof who's name is escaping me at the moment). It's virtually impossible to "buy" a championship.
+1 Wayne Huizenga is a badass. There are lots of rags to riches stories, but he literally began his career taking the garbage out, and now just sold what was his own private golf course designed by Gary Player. For clarity, thats (1) Own private golf course and (2) designed by Gary Player, 2 unimaginably expensive things all wrapped up into one. Its hard to believe such a savvy person would give a vote of confidence to Nick Saban. :)
http://walterfootball.com/nbadraft2010mock_2.php
Here's one with him going (where else?) but the Jazz in the second round.
QuoteLaxar Hayward measurables: 6-4 1-2 without shoes ...8-6 standing reach ...225.8 pounds ...7.5 body fat.
http://twitter.com/gerywoelfel
Old man must had trouble typing the z on his phone.
Lazar and Gordon are cousins! :)
http://www.journaltimes.com/sports/article_9fbf3052-6497-11df-914b-001cc4c002e0.html
http://my.journaltimes.com/post/woelfel-world-of-sports/nba_will_get_upclose_look_at_mus_hayward.html
QuoteGoldfeder said Hayward already has seven team workouts scheduled, starting May 12 with the Miami Heat.
Hayward will also work out for Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Chicago, Toronto, Detroit and Memphis.
His height is really going to hold him back. There's a fine line of trying to get faster and not losing your strength. Hopefully he beasts in these workouts.
Ok.. I gotta ask for some other opinions on this. It could just be my bias, but what is it about Gordon Hayward that makes him a lottery pick? Or that much better than Lazar?
He's a tweener as well, and his outside shot is very inconsistent. He won't be able to come close to his rebounding numbers at the NBA level. He's a good ballhandler and passer, smart ballplayer.
I know he had a nice tournament, but I can see this guy being a bust. He reminds me of a skinnier Adam Morrison, and we all saw how that worked out.
Anyone watching the NBA Combine right now on ESPN3? Had a glimpse of Zar there and they just had like a 10 minute conversation about 1-and-dones, kids entering the draft because "they don't like school," etc. It's being covered by guys like Len Elmore, Andy Katz, Chad Ford, Jay Williams, Billy Hunter? - not sure. Either way, it's on right now.
G 6-8 SF
L 6-5 SF/PF
G led his team to the NCAA championship game. L led his team to the tourney.
Lazar also played a position that doesn't translate to the NBA your don't see many SF's playing C and thus getting mismatches on the offensive end. Lazar can play center in the BEast, but he won't be able to do it against D. Howard, Bogut and others.
Gordon played is more known on his style of play. NBA front offices know he is a solid ball handler and passer. They don't have to worry about if he will be able to switch positions. He plays a translatable position and is a hard worker.
I don't disagree with you on him being a possible bust, but it is real easy to see why Gordon is ranked so much higher.
I like Gordon because I am also a fan of Butler behind MU of course. I think he will be just fine in the NBA but he did make the wrong choice deciding to go pro already. I definitly think he should have stayed for another year.
But boy would I love it if the Bucks got both Haywards. They would be my new favorite team.
Quote from: MUfan12 on May 21, 2010, 11:29:27 AM
Ok.. I gotta ask for some other opinions on this. It could just be my bias, but what is it about Gordon Hayward that makes him a lottery pick? Or that much better than Lazar?
He's a tweener as well, and his outside shot is very inconsistent. He won't be able to come close to his rebounding numbers at the NBA level. He's a good ballhandler and passer, smart ballplayer.
I know he had a nice tournament, but I can see this guy being a bust. He reminds me of a skinnier Adam Morrison, and we all saw how that worked out.
Gordon Hayward isn't a tweener. He's a 6'8" SF.
Quote from: MUfan12 on May 21, 2010, 11:29:27 AMOk.. I gotta ask for some other opinions on this. It could just be my bias, but what is it about Gordon Hayward that makes him a lottery pick? Or that much better than Lazar?
He's a tweener as well, and his outside shot is very inconsistent. He won't be able to come close to his rebounding numbers at the NBA level. He's a good ballhandler and passer, smart ballplayer.
I know he had a nice tournament, but I can see this guy being a bust. He reminds me of a skinnier Adam Morrison, and we all saw how that worked out.
Gordan Hayward has a very good shot and is a much more complete player than Adam Morrison. Gordan is extremely smooth. Obviously they are very different players, but it reminds me of Stephen Curry...those 2 make very difficult things look very easy. He's 6'8"/6'9" (most list him at 6'8" but I've seen some listing him at 6'9") and can handle the ball like a point guard (not as quick but can handle it very well...read somewhere that both his parents are "shorter" - I think it said his dad was around 6' - so they had him practice his ball handling thinking he would stop growing early and be 6' as well). His basketball IQ is also through the rough. He's one of those guys who just gets "it"...you can't really explain it but he has something that most players don't.
I'd say the main difference between Lazar and Gordon is that Gordon has an extra 3" on Lazar and has a much higher basketball IQ and much better decision making. Lazar's passing is suspect and his ball handling is even worse. Gordon has no such problems. I think Gordon is the real deal, and if he's still around at 15 I will be pretty disappointed if the Bucks pass up on him.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on May 21, 2010, 04:12:20 PMI like Gordon because I am also a fan of Butler behind MU of course. I think he will be just fine in the NBA but he did make the wrong choice deciding to go pro already. I definitly think he should have stayed for another year.
But boy would I love it if the Bucks got both Haywards. They would be my new favorite team.
It was definitely the right choice by Hayward to go pro. What more can he do in college? He won't get that much better by dominating the Horizon League next year, he'll get a lot better by going up against the best players in the world every day in practice WHILE making millions of dollars for it. It also takes an unbelievable amount of talent combined with luck on a team to make it to the Final Four and championship games, so it'd be pretty hard for him and Butler to duplicate what they did this year. There was no reason for him to stay in school. If you're a first round pick you're guaranteed money. Take the money while it's there. His stock probably wouldn't rise all that much next year anyway.
It's actually probably better if he doesn't get drafted. Realistically, he could get drafted from mid-to-late 2nd. Those guys get cut all of the time. It would be better to go undrafted and try to make a team that gives him the best chance to win a spot. Wes is the obvious example, but this is not a new occurrence. He is a borderline NBAer and needs to find a place where he has a role to fill.......even if it's just the bench.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on May 21, 2010, 04:12:20 PM
I like Gordon because I am also a fan of Butler behind MU of course. I think he will be just fine in the NBA but he did make the wrong choice deciding to go pro already. I definitly think he should have stayed for another year.
But boy would I love it if the Bucks got both Haywards. They would be my new favorite team.
?-(
Honestly, I think fans are selfish when they make comments like this on guys staying another year. He led his team to a national championship game and is almost guaranteed a first round pick (most projecting him in top 20). He is guaranteed a 3 year deal and millions of dollars if he is drafted. He is then able to have the best coaches in the world (Bucks, who I feel will pick him if available at 15, have Skiles, Sampson and Peterson-all 3 are great coaches) and great facilities. His only obligation would be to working on his game during the off-season- no classes to go to.
So he should go back another year and supposedly get better practicing and playing with weaker competition? All of this while risking an injury?
Also Gordon just turned 20......Lazar is 23.
I'm all Warrior, but:
1. Gordon is WAY better than Lazar.
2. Gordon made ABSOLUTELY the smart move entering the draft this year.
Quote from: KC2016 on May 21, 2010, 11:40:08 PM
I'm all Warrior, but:
1. Gordon is WAY better than Lazar.
2. Gordon made ABSOLUTELY the smart move entering the draft this year.
1. Yup
2. Yup
And about the Adam Morrison comparisons...
Morrison came out as a junior, got drafted high...and well is generally considered a bust. But would he have been a better player had he stuck around another year? I doubt it. Another year of college wouldn't have made Morrison, and it won't make Hayward, a better basketball player.
And in Morrison's defense, the torn ACL his second year didn't help his development either.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 22, 2010, 07:16:31 AM
And about the Adam Morrison comparisons...
Morrison came out as a junior, got drafted high...and well is generally considered a bust. But would he have been a better player had he stuck around another year? I doubt it. Another year of college wouldn't have made Morrison, and it won't make Hayward, a better basketball player.
And in Morrison's defense, the torn ACL his second year didn't help his development either.
To go back on the offensive against Morrison, he was also a bit of a headcase. Watching him break down multiple times his senior year probably should have sent up some red flags... maybe not the guy to take third.
I wouldn't want the Bucks to take him at 15 just because he is pretty limited athletically and thus wont be able to get to the rim like he did in college and is inconsistent with the outside shot. He'll probably be a decent player at the next level, I just think mid-first is still too early where teams are still primarily concerned about upside.
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/
Lazar: 6'4.5"
The one from Butler: 6'6.75"
Everybody lies about their height.
Raise your hand if you think Lazar can play the 2 in the Association.
Quote from: shiloh26 on May 22, 2010, 11:32:33 AM
To go back on the offensive against Morrison, he was also a bit of a headcase. Watching him break down multiple times his senior year probably should have sent up some red flags... maybe not the guy to take third.
I wouldn't want the Bucks to take him at 15 just because he is pretty limited athletically and thus wont be able to get to the rim like he did in college and is inconsistent with the outside shot. He'll probably be a decent player at the next level, I just think mid-first is still too early where teams are still primarily concerned about upside.
What gives you the impression he's limited athletically? The guy was all state in like three different sports in high school.
The Butler kid actually reminds me a lot of Mike Dunleavy.
He wont be an impact player perse, but he will have a long career in the NBA.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 22, 2010, 02:54:50 PM
What gives you the impression he's limited athletically? The guy was all state in like three different sports in high school.
Perhaps 'limited athletically' was the wrong choice of words, he's obviously athletic, but he doesn't have the athleticism that you'd be looking for in a SF first round prospect.
http://www.jconline.com/article/20100506/NEWS0501/100506011/NBA-scouts-assess-Johnson-Moore-and-Hayward
1 scout: "He's also not very athletic"
Another: "He'll have problems getting his shot off because he doesn't have the athleticism to be an impact player in the league."
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Gordon-Hayward-5514/
"lacks the prototypical athleticism that would allow him to seamlessly transition his game to the next level"
"questionable athleticsm"
None of this means he can't be a good player, I just don't think he's mid-first round quality.
Fair enough...good points.
Observations non-MU:
1) Interesting to hear the audio chatter during the first break about Pittman not knowing his step-brother died after being shot (which was announced on-air before they began to cover the actual drills).
2) Didn't know Sam Young impaled himself on the running vert bolt (fastened to the pole).
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 20, 2010, 08:47:08 AM
The point is that you sell tickets by winning, not be signing hometown heroes who probably won't see the court.
Check out the excellent ESPN 30 for 30 doc "Winning Time" about Reggie Miller. Reggie was drafted by the Pacers over IU's Steve Alford. People went ballistic that the Pacers didn't draft Alford and swore of the Pacers, etc. Fast forward a decade and Alford was a second rate coach and Miller was on his way to the HoF.
4ever, get that credit card ready
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/5226324/not-draft-hype-players
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 27, 2010, 02:06:50 PM
4ever, get that credit card ready
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/5226324/not-draft-hype-players
FTA: "He's not sexy."
Lies. Hayward is too sexy for his headband.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 27, 2010, 02:06:50 PM
4ever, get that credit card ready
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/5226324/not-draft-hype-players
After the damage my wife did on Rodeo, the AmEx has enough room left on it for a small pack of cheese curds. ;D