He will be here on July 6th according to new facebook update. Does anyone know if he has his test scores yet?
Can't wait for him to start his running on July 6!! ;D
So we've heard via twitter or facebook from Gardner, Jones, Newbill and Blue that they will be here in July.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 12, 2010, 08:02:07 PM
So we've heard via twitter or facebook from Gardner, Jones, Newbill and Blue that they will be here in July.
Actually I think we "heard" from Crowder, not Newbill.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on May 12, 2010, 08:03:22 PM
Actually I think we "heard" from Crowder, not Newbill.
Ah...yes you are correct. And we've heard from someone else on here claiming that Smith will be here in July.
Recently as far as I have seen:
Jae Crowder: ** JUST KNOCKED OUT ANOTHER FINAL.. [PASSED IT] CAN YOU SAY " GETTING IT DONE ".. [THANKING GOD] 40 DAYS AND ILL BE IN THE [BEST] POSITION OF MY LIFE.. {FOLLOW ME @ CJC32BOSS @ TWITTER} ** (I'm assuming the best position of his life is in Milwaukee at Marquette).
Jamail Jones: countdown is still going!! 17 days left till milwaukee.. AND dang bro imma senior this is krazy.. leaving for skool in 14 days!! AND time is winding down...
Vander Blue: @CJC32BOSS ay bro when u move in (CJC being Jae Crowder, assuming they're talking about moving into Humphry) AND Daddyys hooommmeeee!!!lovvinn MU AND Thinking bout next season I got a feelin we gone b really good n proove alot of ppl wrong tworld retweet if u feel the same..MU we fly high
And then this from Davante Gardner. I can't find a Twitter (don't really use it so maybe I just don't know how to find people) or Facebook for Smith or Newbill. But the top 3 are the ones I am most excited to see play and would be most devastated to see not appear in a Marquette uniform next season, and they all seem to be coming to Milwaukee shortly, which would suggest they will be here next year.
I think they will all be here in the summer working on their game and in the classroom. Whoever is going to prep will not be known before the start of fall semester. This helps Buzz in two ways. It cements the player's relationship with MU and keeps other schools from trying to recruit the player until they go to prep school. That leaves another school only a little over two months to convince a player to not resign with MU. Also player A may not have to go to prep school, if player B decides to leave like Roseboro or Mbakwe.
Unlike the rest, however, that player (Newbill, it seems), won't be able to attend summer school. Not sure how that affects his summer status on campus.
Quote from: bilsu on May 12, 2010, 08:53:15 PM
I think they will all be here in the summer working on their game and in the classroom. Whoever is going to prep will not be known before the start of fall semester. This helps Buzz in two ways. It cements the player's relationship with MU and keeps other schools from trying to recruit the player until they go to prep school. That leaves another school only a little over two months to convince a player to not resign with MU. Also player A may not have to go to prep school, if player B decides to leave like Roseboro or Mbakwe.
OK...but Buzz said that the person going prep knows they are going prep. If it's for academic reasons, they can't be working with the team until they are cleared.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 12, 2010, 09:10:58 PM
OK...but Buzz said that the person going prep knows they are going prep. If it's for academic reasons, they can't be working with the team until they are cleared.
You remember where/what thread Buzz said the person going prep, knows they are going prep? I didn't recall seeing that or reading that?
It wasn't explicitly stated, but it was implied that someone or more than one person needed to work hard to qualify and they know who they are
I do hope it's Newbill going to Prep school. I trust Buzz's judgment, and his game-winning shot looked clutch, but he is a low-THREE STAR on a team still loaded with other guards. I think we need Smith as an option, but Newbill is the one guy I don't see contributing freshman year. No offense on that - D. Wade used freshman year to study, but I'd love to have him play four years at MU ending in 2015.
Quote from: jhags15 on May 12, 2010, 10:20:16 PM
It wasn't explicitly stated, but it was implied that someone or more than one person needed to work hard to qualify and they know who they are
Someone on another thread said that Buzz stated at an event in LA recently that the player(s) going to prep school knew already.
I am pretty sure the thread said Buzz said that the people who know they have to work hard know who they are
Random question.
Can a player play D-1 for a year two, go prep, then come back to college?
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on May 12, 2010, 10:31:27 PM
I do hope it's Newbill going to Prep school. I trust Buzz's judgment, and his game-winning shot looked clutch, but he is a low-THREE STAR on a team still loaded with other guards. I think we need Smith as an option, but Newbill is the one guy I don't see contributing freshman year. No offense on that - D. Wade used freshman year to study, but I'd love to have him play four years at MU ending in 2015.
You ever seen Newbill play?
Apparently a lot of you are not aware of the recruiting rules...and that is understandable as it is confusing. But...Once the recruit signs a LOI with MU(or any school) there is a "recruiting ban" in place, even if he doesn't enroll in that school for a year. So, NO ONE can contact any of the recruits until November of next year. Which means, they are going to prep with full intentions of returning to MU in 2011. It's a heck of a smart strategy by Buzz, as it is essentially "stashing" players, and it will also take care of 2011's recruiting class, sans for Mr. Dawson. :)
Right from the NCAA handbook:
RECRUITING BAN AFTER SIGNING: The NLI Recruiting Ban remains in effect until the prospective student-athlete enrolls at the signing institution or if the prospective student-athlete does not enroll at the signing institution, the recruiting ban will be lifted after the signing institution's next academic year has elapsed. For example, the prospective student-athlete signs in 2009-10 and does not subsequently enroll at that institution for the 2010-11 academic year, the recruiting ban would be lifted at the end of the 2010-11 academic year. Once a student enrolls at the signing institution he or she is governed by applicable NCAA recruiting bylaws.
Quote from: muguru on May 13, 2010, 07:49:30 AM
Apparently a lot of you are not aware of the recruiting rules...and that is understandable as it is confusing. But...Once the recruit signs a LOI with MU(or any school) there is a "recruiting ban" in place, even if he doesn't enroll in that school for a year. So, NO ONE can contact any of the recruits until November of next year. Which means, they are going to prep with full intentions of returning to MU in 2011. It's a heck of a smart strategy by Buzz, as it is essentially "stashing" players, and it will also take care of 2011's recruiting class, sans for Mr. Dawson. :)
You assume two things:
1) The recruit was aware of his impending "stashing" when he committed to Marquette.
2) The recruit will still want to be a part of Marquette after said "stashing".
Buzz is trying to do the impossible: win a National Title for Marquette in his relatively short time in Milwaukee. He'll do it by any means necessary within the malleable boundaries of fair play.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 13, 2010, 08:16:00 AM
You assume two things:
1) The recruit was aware of his impending "stashing" when he committed to Marquette. They were aware....or they would NOT have signed the LOI. They are committed to MU and Buzz
2) The recruit will still want to be a part of Marquette after said "stashing".
Did you NOT read what I just posted?? They HAVE to be committed to MU. They can NOT be re recruited by ANYONE until the END of MU's academic season NEXT year. What are they going to do, pay their own way somewhere?? walk on?? Give up basketball?? Those would essentially be their choices.
Buzz is trying to do the impossible: win a National Title for Marquette in his relatively short time in Milwaukee. He'll do it by any means necessary within the malleable boundaries of fair play.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 13, 2010, 08:16:00 AM
You assume two things:
1) The recruit was aware of his impending "stashing" when he committed to Marquette.
2) The recruit will still want to be a part of Marquette after said "stashing".
Buzz is trying to do the impossible: win a National Title for Marquette in his relatively short time in Milwaukee. He'll do it by any means necessary within the malleable boundaries of fair play.
1) Why wouldn't the recruit be aware of his impending "stashing" when he committed to Marquette? These kids know their grades, and know what they have to achieve on their tests to qualify. To say they don't is crazy.
2) Probably a bit more hazy, but why sign a LOI knowing full well you are going to prep? What is the point? I think it would be VERY comforting to know that I had a spot locked up for next year if I was a recruit. I have to hold up my end of the bargain and then I get to live my dream.
It isn't as if every kid who goes to prep gets to make his choice of school where he plays college ball.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 13, 2010, 08:25:46 AM
1) Why wouldn't the recruit be aware of his impending "stashing" when he committed to Marquette? These kids know their grades, and know what they have to achieve on their tests to qualify. To say they don't is crazy.
Again, let's not just ASSUME whoever is prepping is doing so because of grades. Maybe their grades are good enough, but Buzz and the recruit both agree that they should prep for a year and work on their skills and come in in 2011 an already to go player. It's not unheard of. Kids have done it.2) Probably a bit more hazy, but why sign a LOI knowing full well you are going to prep? What is the point? I think it would be VERY comforting to know that I had a spot locked up for next year if I was a recruit. I have to hold up my end of the bargain and then I get to live my dream.
It isn't as if every kid who goes to prep gets to make his choice of school where he plays college ball.
QuoteDid you NOT read what I just posted?? They HAVE to be committed to MU. They can NOT be re recruited by ANYONE until the END of MU's academic season NEXT year. What are they going to do, pay their own way somewhere?? walk on?? Give up basketball?? Those would essentially be their choices.
Actually they don't have to be committed, you left out a few very important things about that clause of the NLI. The recruiting ban is only in effect if the school does not release the player, and the player does not ask for a release. Obviously if MU is trying to stash players at a prep school the first one wouldn't happen, but even if MU refuses to release the player, the player can petition the NLI committee for a release and in a situation like this it is almost a certainty that it would be granted, thus removing the recruiting ban.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 13, 2010, 08:16:00 AM
You assume two things:
1) The recruit was aware of his impending "stashing" when he committed to Marquette.
2) The recruit will still want to be a part of Marquette after said "stashing".
Buzz is trying to do the impossible: win a National Title for Marquette in his relatively short time in Milwaukee. He'll do it by any means necessary within the malleable boundaries of fair play.
Surprise, surprise - look who's hating on Buzz. Give it up dude. Given the rest of your post history, your agenda is quite transparent.
Quote from: bma725 on May 13, 2010, 08:34:08 AM
Actually they don't have to be committed, you left out a few very important things about that clause of the NLI. The recruiting ban is only in effect if the school does not release the player, and the player does not ask for a release. Obviously if MU is trying to stash players at a prep school the first one wouldn't happen, but even if MU refuses to release the player, the player can petition the NLI committee for a release and in a situation like this it is almost a certainty that it would be granted, thus removing the recruiting ban.
No, I didn't forget....I just didn't mention it because in this(these) particular cases, the chances the kid(s) will be asking out of their LOI are slim and none and slim just left. This was all prearranged. A you scratch my back, I will scartch yours type of agreement.
muguru, just to clarify, you think that a player good enough to play for Marquette would sign a LOI and then go play prep? You think he would choose that?
I realize that it is possible, but lets be real here. If someone as good as RS, DG, DN, et al. is good enough to be recruited to play D1 ball for multiple schools, they are going to be playing D1 ball; not dominating kids in prep school.
Quote from: Boone on May 12, 2010, 09:03:43 PM
Unlike the rest, however, that player (Newbill, it seems), won't be able to attend summer school. Not sure how that affects his summer status on campus.
Why? If the player is qualified and is going the prep route for other reasons, couldn't they still come on campus all summer and work out with the team. Maybe even take a few classes to get some credits in advance, then head to prep school in the fall.
Quote from: muguru on May 13, 2010, 08:45:32 AM
No, I didn't forget....I just didn't mention it because in this(these) particular cases, the chances the kid(s) will be asking out of their LOI are slim and none and slim just left. This was all prearranged. A you scratch my back, I will scartch yours type of agreement.
You're assuming things can't change. Maybe the kid gets to prep school, hates it, and gets pissed at MU for placing him there so he decides to ask for his release. Nothing is ever set in stone when it comes to recruiting.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 13, 2010, 08:46:55 AM
muguru, just to clarify, you think that a player good enough to play for Marquette would sign a LOI and then go play prep? You think he would choose that?
I realize that it is possible, but lets be real here. If someone as good as RS, DG, DN, et al. is good enough to be recruited to play D1 ball for multiple schools, they are going to be playing D1 ball; not dominating kids in prep school.
Maybe. It's basically the same as red-shirting for a year, but they still get to play in games. People have given a few examples of similar situations at other schools, like Villanova. Maybe they liked MU that much more than any of their other alternatives.
What I don't understand is, unless it is for academic reasons that they are going prep, is Newbill or Smith (making assumptions here) any better than someone Buzz could recruit as a Class of 2011 freshman?
Quote from: bma725 on May 13, 2010, 08:50:21 AM
You're assuming things can't change. Maybe the kid gets to prep school, hates it, and gets pissed at MU for placing him there so he decides to ask for his release. Nothing is ever set in stone when it comes to recruiting.
I realize things can change, but I am pretty confident they won't. These kids KNEW ahead of time what the agreement was. If they or their parents had any doubts, I don't believe they would have signed the LOI. Granted again, things can change, but I can also become President, that's not going to happen either....but it could.
Quote from: muguru on May 13, 2010, 09:06:16 AM
I realize things can change, but I am pretty confident they won't. These kids KNEW ahead of time what the agreement was. If they or their parents had any doubts, I don't believe they would have signed the LOI. Granted again, things can change, but I can also become President, that's not going to happen either....but it could.
In the history of time only one thing is known for sure with teenagers: their minds can change dramatically on a whim.
Do you really believe that schools stop recruiting even with a signed LOI? Do you really think no school would try, through a third party, to recruit a Big East talent at a prep school?
If I'm reading your words correctly, you are stating that Newbill (or any other recruit) and his parents were well aware that even with qualifying grades he would most likely be asked to prep for a year prior to entering the program. True?
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 13, 2010, 09:17:43 AM
In the history of time only one thing is known for sure with teenagers: their minds can change dramatically on a whim.
Do you really believe that schools stop recruiting even with a signed LOI? Do you really think no school would try, through a third party, to recruit a Big East talent at a prep school?
If I'm reading your words correctly, you are stating that Newbill (or any other recruit) and his parents were well aware that even with qualifying grades he would most likely be asked to prep for a year prior to entering the program. True?
As to the stop recruit thing, yes. If they don't and MU or anyone catches them it is an NCAA violation, and not a minor one, IIRC.
If I'm reading your words correctly, you are stating that Newbill (or any other recruit) and his parents were well aware that even with qualifying grades he would most likely be asked to prep for a year prior to entering the program. True?
Absolutely, 100% TRUE. Why do you think this is so far fetched?? A kid has a chance to play in the Big East and live out his dream, but he just has to delay it by a year. Maybe he likes buzz and MU That much. I don't think that is far fetched at all.
Quote from: muguru
b]Absolutely, 100% TRUE. Why do you think this is so far fetched?? A kid has a chance to play in the Big East and live out his dream, but he just has to delay it by a year. Maybe he likes buzz and MU That much. I don't think that is far fetched at all.[/b]
Its only hard to believe if you are desperately looking for any angle to criticize buzz or the program. Is it that much different than recruiting a player with the understanding that they will redshirt? How can you make assumptions on what was said during the recruiting process. Speaking of mind readers its seems there is a lot of mind reading going on into buzz's and recruits heads by some.
Quote from: hairyworthen on May 13, 2010, 09:46:37 AM
Its only hard to believe if you are desperately looking for any angle to criticize buzz or the program. Is it that much different than recruiting a player with the understanding that they will redshirt? How can you make assumptions on what was said during the recruiting process. Speaking of mind readers its seems there is a lot of mind reading going on into buzz's and recruits heads by some.
sort of what I was getting at. It is possible, but not probable for this to happen.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 13, 2010, 10:00:50 AM
sort of what I was getting at. It is possible, but not probable for this to happen.
Yes, not probable but more likley if it is a player that wants to play in a top conference, but knows he may have to sit a lot his freshman year in order to do it.
Quote from: muguru on May 13, 2010, 09:26:41 AM
Absolutely, 100% TRUE. Why do you think this is so far fetched?? A kid has a chance to play in the Big East and live out his dream, but he just has to delay it by a year. Maybe he likes buzz and MU That much. I don't think that is far fetched at all.
It's not far-fetched at all. In fact, it further confirms everything I know. And probably confirms everything anyone who's read this board over the last weeks has picked up on. I wrote about this last week and was taken to task for it but its better to be honest about the situation. Just waiting for the announcement.
As to the guy who equated stashing at a prep to a redshirt, it is similar but the main difference I can see is needs change during the year and if you're outside the program it's easier to discount contribution. See: Anthony Green.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 13, 2010, 10:15:32 AM
It's not far-fetched at all. In fact, it further confirms everything I know. And probably confirms everything anyone who's read this board over the last weeks has picked up on. I wrote about this last week and was taken to task for it but its better to be honest about the situation. Just waiting for the announcement.
As to the guy who equated stashing at a prep to a redshirt, it is similar but the main difference I can see is needs change during the year and if you're outside the program it's easier to discount contribution. See: Anthony Green.
How isn't it far-fetched? Simply because you say it isn't? Please feel free to back up your argument with examples of this happening frequently. You deserve to be taken to task for the claim since you have nothing to back up your argument with except your own beliefs.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 13, 2010, 10:15:32 AM
As to the guy who equated stashing at a prep to a redshirt, it is similar but the main difference I can see is needs change during the year and if you're outside the program it's easier to discount contribution. See: Anthony Green.
No comparison between Green and anything that is going on now. Green was already known to not be committed to MU before he went to prep school...in fact it was known he wouldn't be here when he left Beloit after his junior year of high school to attempt to improve his grades and get away from bad home life at a HS in California(father in prison, mother on drugs).
His going to prep was unrelated to MU and had to do with the fact that he didn't improve his grades enough to qualify for NCAA ball....and even after a year at prep school he still couldn't qualify so he spent two years at a JUCO before quitting the game entirely and heading to UW-Whitewater.
ah...the voice of reason. Thanks bma.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 13, 2010, 10:31:31 AM
How isn't it far-fetched? Simply because you say it isn't? Please feel free to back up your argument with examples of this happening frequently. You deserve to be taken to task for the claim since you have nothing to back up your argument with except your own beliefs.
So it's okay to take someone to task for their beliefs? Opening the door for the political/religious fun!!! Way to jump on that third rail. ;)
Last week, I wrote that Newbill would go to prep to trim the roster. That has been confirmed by multiple people in private and by multiple people in public (except their words are more flowery in public). There's a little more to it then my willy-nilly nature. I was/am taken to task for writing this. Not for writing that it never and/or always happens. There's a difference.
One recent example of stashing would be the prospect Kennedy from Villanova.
Quote from: bma725 on May 13, 2010, 10:37:43 AM
No comparison between Green and anything that is going on now. Green was already known to not be committed to MU before he went to prep school...in fact it was known he wouldn't be here when he left Beloit after his junior year of high school to attempt to improve his grades and get away from bad home life at a HS in California(father in prison, mother on drugs).
His going to prep was unrelated to MU and had to do with the fact that he didn't improve his grades enough to qualify for NCAA ball....and even after a year at prep school he still couldn't qualify so he spent two years at a JUCO before quitting the game entirely and heading to UW-Whitewater.
I don't remember the public announcement that Green was no longer committed to MU before he went to prep school. Glad you have a better memory then I on this issue.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 13, 2010, 11:14:08 AM
So it's okay to take someone to task for their beliefs? Opening the door for the political/religious fun!!! Way to jump on that third rail. ;)
Last week, I wrote that Newbill would go to prep to trim the roster. That has been confirmed by multiple people in private and by multiple people in public (except their words are more flowery in public). There's a little more to it then my willy-nilly nature. I was/am taken to task for writing this. Not for writing that it never and/or always happens. There's a difference.
One recent example of stashing would be the prospect Kennedy from Villanova.
Okay so you have a bunch of unconfirmable (by anyone but you, apparently) reports that Newbill is going the prep route, not because of grades, but to trim the roster. And we are supposed to just eat that up and pat you on the back? I'm sorry, but I was raised, and educated better than to just accept heresay, and conjecture. I full apologize for asking for concrete facts, my bad.
I am taking you to task for you misrepresenting (considering the lack of evidence) your BELIEFS as FACT.
This isn't difficult to understand.
Additionally, how do you KNOW that Markus Kennedy has qualified to play at Villanova? It is too early to tell, is it not?
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 13, 2010, 11:17:28 AM
I don't remember the public announcement that Green was no longer committed to MU before he went to prep school. Glad you have a better memory then I on this issue.
Even you know that there could be no public announcement because the school could not comment on a high school junior that wasn't even eligible to sign a LOI yet. But it was known by Green, by MU, by Green's HS coaches and family, and by pretty much everyone on the boards at that time.
The more I think about this, the more it seems like it could be Newbill, but it could well be good for both Marquette and DJ. He's a three-star prospect, and in many ways seemed to come out of nowhere. He played in a smaller league, and it's entirely possible that if he had been in the highest level of Pennsylvania basketball, he would have still won state player of the year and been a top 100 recruit, but because of the lower division status, he wasn't as heavily recruited.
As Newbill is looking at his options, he sees that he can either try to break in with a mid-major like St. Joe's or Niagara, play a year at a junior college and improve his options but lose a year of eligibility, or go to prep school for a year and have a place saved for him at a high major. Any of the above could give him a shot at personal success, but playing four years at a high major, even if he has to sacrifice a year to do so, seems like a great way to contend for NCAA tourney success, and with enough focus through televised games to get the eye of NBA scouts (if he's good enough). It's not something we've seen commonly in the past, but I hardly find it to be a far-fetched notion.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 13, 2010, 09:02:10 AM
What I don't understand is, unless it is for academic reasons that they are going prep, is Newbill or Smith (making assumptions here) any better than someone Buzz could recruit as a Class of 2011 freshman?
To me, this is the biggest overlooked issue here. If its Reggie Smith going prep, then thats my perfect scenario, as it sounds like he has the skills and athleticism to be a great pg, but just needs to hone his game. If he goes prep, he should be a top100 guy next year easily. But if its Newbill, I think Buzz has shown he can easily recruits players rated above him. And if its Gardner, which seems less likely recently, then Buzz should have no problem getting a higher ranked guy.
Quote from: Litehouse on May 13, 2010, 08:54:13 AM
Maybe. It's basically the same as red-shirting for a year, but they still get to play in games. People have given a few examples of similar situations at other schools, like Villanova. Maybe they liked MU that much more than any of their other alternatives.
exactly Hrds Alumni is taking a way way way too closed minded approach. Very similar to a red shirt. For example Buzz loves the kid, the kid loves Buzz, Buzz wnts the kid at MU, and the kid has fallen in love with Mu and wants to play there.
Then Buzz talks with the kid either before or after signing and says hey kid you are going to be the 5th or 6th best 2 guard on the team and even if you were the 3rd best you probably will not play much or any kook at Ewill last year. How would you feel about going and playing 30+ games at an eleite prep school against elite competition and then coming in next year a year stronger a year older and a year more prepared after Butler and Buycks have left and DJO will be a senior. Instaed of tying up your scholarship we can use it to go sign some of those bigs we need to help us win titels when you are here. .
I think this is a relatively easy argument to make to a kid like Smith or Newbill if he has complete buy in into the program and even an easier argument to make if he has not made the grade.
I have no idea why some people find this to hard to imagine. maybe hards stands for hard headed.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on May 13, 2010, 01:59:04 PM
exactly Hrds Alumni is taking a way way way too closed minded approach. Very similar to a red shirt. For example Buzz loves the kid, the kid loves Buzz, Buzz wnts the kid at MU, and the kid has fallen in love with Mu and wants to play there.
Then Buzz talks with the kid either before or after signing and says hey kid you are going to be the 5th or 6th best 2 guard on the team and even if you were the 3rd best you probably will not play much or any kook at Ewill last year. How would you feel about going and playing 30+ games at an eleite prep school against elite competition and then coming in next year a year stronger a year older and a year more prepared after Butler and Buycks have left and DJO will be a senior. Instaed of tying up your scholarship we can use it to go sign some of those bigs we need to help us win titels when you are here. .
I think this is a relatively easy argument to make to a kid like Smith or Newbill if he has complete buy in into the program and even an easier argument to make if he has not made the grade.
I have no idea why some people find this to hard to imagine. maybe hards stands for hard headed.
Sorry Hayward, I'm just a realist. This isn't a movie.
What level headed kid would postpone his life/career for a year as a favor to a program? Considering the % of NCAA players who actually make it to the pro's, if you are asked to go to prep school for a year to 'hone your game' you probably aren't NBA material anyway.
That said, I could be wrong, and that is why I said that the idea is FAR-FETCHED, and highly IMPROBABLE, not impossible.
Additionally, Hayward, you are probably the last person who should be calling people out for being hard headed.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on May 13, 2010, 01:59:04 PM
exactly Hrds Alumni is taking a way way way too closed minded approach. Very similar to a red shirt. For example Buzz loves the kid, the kid loves Buzz, Buzz wnts the kid at MU, and the kid has fallen in love with Mu and wants to play there.
Then Buzz talks with the kid either before or after signing and says hey kid you are going to be the 5th or 6th best 2 guard on the team and even if you were the 3rd best you probably will not play much or any kook at Ewill last year. How would you feel about going and playing 30+ games at an eleite prep school against elite competition and then coming in next year a year stronger a year older and a year more prepared after Butler and Buycks have left and DJO will be a senior. Instaed of tying up your scholarship we can use it to go sign some of those bigs we need to help us win titels when you are here. .
I think this is a relatively easy argument to make to a kid like Smith or Newbill if he has complete buy in into the program and even an easier argument to make if he has not made the grade.
I have no idea why some people find this to hard to imagine. maybe hards stands for hard headed.
I am sorry, but this is immoral. If you offer a kid a scholarship and he accepts, and he is qualified and does we has to do, end of discussion. he is coming. You don't tell a kid to go to prep school because you have a better kid (and whose to say this gardener kid is any better) waiting in the wings. "Hey, sweetie, I know i invited you to junior prom, but I just asked out this hotter girl and she accepted. Why don't you go with steve urkel, than hit the gym, maybe the treadmill, do some ab work, and stand out in the sun and get a little tan. Then when senior prom comes around, you will be a lock no questions asked." Buzz may be upfront and honest about him wanting to go to prep school, but just because your honest doesn't make ir right. (side note: this is all speculation, just as most of the last 20 or so posts on this thread have been )
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on May 13, 2010, 02:17:09 PM
I am sorry, but this is immoral. If you offer a kid a scholarship and he accepts, and he is qualified and does we has to do, end of discussion. he is coming. You don't tell a kid to go to prep school because you have a better kid (and whose to say this gardener kid is any better) waiting in the wings.
How do you know Buzz offered him an unconditional scholarship? There are conditional offers all the time (we won't accept your verbal until so-and-so makes his choice). The only difference here is that they accepted the verbal and let the player sign a NLI, basically shifting around the order of things.
None of us really know what's going on, but if Buzz tells the player what the situation is up front, and the player still agrees, why is that so wrong? The other option is probably just not offering the kid a scholarship. But if the kid still wants to sign in that situation, why not let him?
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on May 13, 2010, 02:17:09 PM
I am sorry, but this is immoral. If you offer a kid a scholarship and he accepts, and he is qualified and does we has to do, end of discussion. he is coming. You don't tell a kid to go to prep school because you have a better kid (and whose to say this gardener kid is any better) waiting in the wings. "Hey, sweetie, I know i invited you to junior prom, but I just asked out this hotter girl and she accepted. Why don't you go with steve urkel, than hit the gym, maybe the treadmill, do some ab work, and stand out in the sun and get a little tan. Then when senior prom comes around, you will be a lock no questions asked." Buzz may be upfront and honest about him wanting to go to prep school, but just because your honest doesn't make ir right. (side note: this is all speculation, just as most of the last 20 or so posts on this thread have been )
Speculating that our coach is "immoral" and that he 86ed Newbill because a better(?) player came along is pretty serious. Why go there before we know the facts?
Well, as i said in my original post this all based off speculation, so there ya go.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 13, 2010, 11:19:28 AM
Okay so you have a bunch of unconfirmable (by anyone but you, apparently) reports that Newbill is going the prep route, not because of grades, but to trim the roster. And we are supposed to just eat that up and pat you on the back? I'm sorry, but I was raised, and educated better than to just accept heresay, and conjecture. I full apologize for asking for concrete facts, my bad.
I am taking you to task for you misrepresenting (considering the lack of evidence) your BELIEFS as FACT.
This isn't difficult to understand.
Additionally, how do you KNOW that Markus Kennedy has qualified to play at Villanova? It is too early to tell, is it not?
There are 15 informed opinions that are taken as fact on this board every day. Hell, there are some posters whose words are taken as gospel; they never write falsehoods in the eyes of many and are never questioned.
I'm not sure why my informed opinion on this matter is so contentious for you -- especially since two other posters in this thread have the same opinion as me and spelled it out pretty well.
So you have no problem with speculating that someone is "immoral" with out any evidence to support your charge? ::)
Quote from: MuMark on May 13, 2010, 02:55:22 PM
So you have no problem with speculating that someone is "immoral" with out any evidence to support your charge? ::)
I can speculate anything I want. And I was speculating that if DJ newbill was signed to a scholarship and is now being asked to go to prep school even though he qualified that that is immoral.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 13, 2010, 02:54:36 PM
There are 15 informed opinions that are taken as fact on this board every day. Hell, there are some posters whose words are taken as gospel; they never write falsehoods in the eyes of many and are never questioned.
I'm not sure why my informed opinion on this matter is so contentious for you -- especially since two other posters in this thread have the same opinion as me and spelled it out pretty well.
So basically, I'm a dick for calling you out. Okay. I'm cool with that.
I don't anyone's word as gospel. In fact, I scrutenize most posts here. Some posters, over time, have proven themselves reliable... others, not so much.
You haven't really posted any insider information that you can back up with other than naming 'private sources'. Who are you, Mark Halperin?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 13, 2010, 03:09:56 PM
So basically, I'm a dick for calling you out. Okay. I'm cool with that.
I don't anyone's word as gospel. In fact, I scrutenize most posts here. Some posters, over time, have proven themselves reliable... others, not so much.
You haven't really posted any insider information that you can back up with other than naming 'private sources'. Who are you, Mark Halperin?
+1
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on May 13, 2010, 02:58:10 PM
I can speculate anything I want. And I was speculating that if DJ newbill was signed to a scholarship and is now being asked to go to prep school even though he qualified that that is immoral.
You're right. It's a free country and you can speculate anything you want. And whether the scenario you present amounts to immorality is a point worthy of discussion. But to call people immoral without knowing if the scenario is true is reckless speculation. And that's unfair.
QuoteYou're right. It's a free country and you can speculate anything you want. And whether the scenario you present amounts to immorality is a point worthy of discussion. But to call people immoral without knowing if the scenario is true is reckless speculation. And that's unfair.
Especially when, to this point, Buzz has done nothing but been a great ambassador for MU basketball as well as the university. The answer to our questions will come, you can speculate all you want but what good does that do. Assumptions make an a$$ out of you and me.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 13, 2010, 03:35:33 PM
You're right. It's a free country and you can speculate anything you want. And whether the scenario you present amounts to immorality is a point worthy of discussion. But to call people immoral without knowing if the scenario is true is reckless speculation. And that's unfair.
I said THIS IS IMMORAL, NOT HE
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 13, 2010, 03:09:56 PM
So basically, I'm a dick for calling you out. Okay. I'm cool with that.
I don't anyone's word as gospel. In fact, I scrutenize most posts here. Some posters, over time, have proven themselves reliable... others, not so much.
You haven't really posted any insider information that you can back up with other than naming 'private sources'. Who are you, Mark Halperin?
Hey, I understand being skeptical about the internet. That's cool. It shouldn't be this serious. Just an informed opinion on the particular matter. We'll see what happens.
If it is Newbill than he was recruited with the idea he was going to prep school. Buzz would have told him we really like you, but we need to use our last scholarship on a bigman. Would you be willing to sign with us and go to prep school for a year. That is a very good offer for a player who was not at the time being recruited by anyone of significance. Outside of that, I believe the people that rather have Smith than Newbill are wrong. All Smith is a player with great atleticism. Newbill is better than Smith.
Quote from: muguru on May 13, 2010, 07:49:30 AM
Apparently a lot of you are not aware of the recruiting rules...and that is understandable as it is confusing. But...Once the recruit signs a LOI with MU(or any school) there is a "recruiting ban" in place, even if he doesn't enroll in that school for a year. So, NO ONE can contact any of the recruits until November of next year. Which means, they are going to prep with full intentions of returning to MU in 2011. It's a heck of a smart strategy by Buzz, as it is essentially "stashing" players, and it will also take care of 2011's recruiting class, sans for Mr. Dawson. :)
Right from the NCAA handbook:
RECRUITING BAN AFTER SIGNING: The NLI Recruiting Ban remains in effect until the prospective student-athlete enrolls at the signing institution or if the prospective student-athlete does not enroll at the signing institution, the recruiting ban will be lifted after the signing institution's next academic year has elapsed. For example, the prospective student-athlete signs in 2009-10 and does not subsequently enroll at that institution for the 2010-11 academic year, the recruiting ban would be lifted at the end of the 2010-11 academic year. Once a student enrolls at the signing institution he or she is governed by applicable NCAA recruiting bylaws.
You're missing a couple of key provisions. If the player goes prep because they don't meet MU's admission requirements, or because they don't meet the NCAA's minimums, the NLI no longer applies:
Letter Becomes Null and Void. This NLI shall be declared null and void if any of the following occur:
a. Admissions Requirement. This NLI shall be declared null and void if the institution named in this document notifies me in writing that I have been denied admission or, by the opening day of classes in fall 2010, has failed to provide me with written notice of admission, provided I have submitted a complete admission application. It is my obligation to provide, by request, my academic records and an application for admission to the signing institution. If I fail to submit the necessary academic credentials and/or application to determine an admission decision prior to September 1, the NLI shall be declared null and void.
b. Eligibility Requirements. This NLI shall be declared null and void if, by the opening day of classes in fall 2010, I have not met (1) the institution's requirements for admissions; (2) its academic requirements for financial aid to student-athletes; or (3) the NCAA requirements for financial aid (NCAA Bylaw 14.3) or the two-year college transfer requirements, provided I have submitted all necessary documents for eligibility determination.There are a few others, such as the school dropping the sport, recruiting violations, service in the military, or serving in a church mission.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 13, 2010, 04:31:03 PM
Hey, I understand being skeptical about the internet. That's cool. It shouldn't be this serious. Just an informed opinion on the particular matter. We'll see what happens.
maybe an informed opinion ;)
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on May 13, 2010, 03:49:17 PM
I said THIS IS IMMORAL, NOT HE
OK, this thing you speculate he is doing (without a scintella of evidence) is immoral (in your opinion). You think that's fair. I don't.
Quote from: Marquette84 on May 13, 2010, 05:56:05 PM
You're missing a couple of key provisions. If the player goes prep because they don't meet MU's admission requirements, or because they don't meet the NCAA's minimums, the NLI no longer applies:
But the point of the discussion is that the player would meet MU admission's requirements and the NCAA minimums and still go to prep school.
I think the other point to take into consideration is that MU cannot force a player to go to prep school. The player is guaranteed a one year scholarship (assuming he meets the admission standards) at MU once he signs the LOI. Therefore, the player would have to make the choice to go to a prep school and prep schools cost money. Whatever happens I think you can be very sure the agreement between Buzz and the player was worked out before the player signed.
Application of the words 'probable,' 'possible' and 'NFW'.
It is possible that one of the incoming freshman is going to prep school.
It is possible that prep school was the plan all along.
It is possible that prep school is now plan B because someone didn't or is not going to qualify.
It is probable that if there was a chance said recruit may not qualify, Buzz knew this when the NLI was signed.
It is possible that when Gardner signed his NLI, Buzz already knew it was probable that said recruit was not going to qualify.
It is probable that if the plan was to go to prep school first then join the team in 2011-12, it was already discussed, agreed upon and in-place when the NLI was signed.
The aforementioned scenario is possible, but not necessarily probable.
It is not probable that Buzz recruited said recruit, and signed Gardner any way without knowing first that it was probable that someone was either transferring, not qualifying or going to prep school.
NFW that any of us actually know what is going on. It is probable that those who do know are keeping their mouths shut so as to not breach the privacy of any recruit or player.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 13, 2010, 10:28:46 PM
OK, this thing you speculate he is doing (without a scintella of evidence) is immoral (in your opinion). You think that's fair. I don't.
So other people speculating what I speculated is fine, but if I say what they speculated is immoral if it holds true, I am out of bounds?
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on May 13, 2010, 03:49:17 PM
I said THIS IS IMMORAL, NOT HE
Well, I think Marquette basketball and Buzz will be around a long time, but to call them immortal is a bit overboard.