I have no idea how you can leave them out. especially having wisconsin as a honorable mention instead of marquette.
Quote from: GoMarquette23 on May 12, 2010, 06:10:17 PM
I have no idea how you can leave them out. especially having wisconsin as a honorable mention instead of marquette.
pretty easily as we lose 3 starters including the leading scorer.
MU has 2 proven players coming back and Buzz is going to coach for the first time without Crean's players. Skepticism on the national level is going to happen until a good showing at the CBE.
Quote from: Chili on May 12, 2010, 06:14:51 PM
pretty easily as we lose 3 starters including the leading scorer.
I think we handled ourselves pretty well with Rel, Dom and Wes gone. I agree with gomu23 that we should be in the rankings, at least in top 30. Another year of proving people wrong, get used to it I guess.
Quote from: jwalsh on May 12, 2010, 06:17:39 PMI think we handled ourselves pretty well with Rel, Dom and Wes gone. I agree with gomu23 that we should be in the rankings, at least in top 30. Another year of proving people wrong, get used to it I guess.
Based on what? We lost in the first round of the NCAA Tournament (so at best the 33rd best team) and lost our best player, to go along with 2 other starters.
Who cares? Isn't this why they play the games?
Quote from: HoopsMalone on May 12, 2010, 06:15:54 PM
MU has 2 proven players coming back and Buzz is going to coach for the first time without Crean's players. Skepticism on the national level is going to happen until a good showing at the CBE.
Firstly, Crean's players (Zar, Cubi, Acker) were the reason we did well last year. And Butler is proven as a role player, but I'm not sure he's ready to be a team leader night-in-night-out.
True, we did pretty well after losing a lot, and this year we are losing less and returning more. But still, we were never a top25 team last year and lost in rd1 of the NCAA, so until we actually prove some of the promise we are all so excited about, there is no reason to consider us a top25 team.
Quote from: ATWizJr on May 12, 2010, 06:28:29 PM
Who cares? Isn't this why they play the games?
+1 - Nicely said.
Quote from: GoMarquette23 on May 12, 2010, 06:10:17 PM
I have no idea how you can leave them out. especially having wisconsin as a honorable mention instead of marquette.
Seriously? this team is riddled with question marks.
I hope everyone has MU picked for 12th place again, so I can laugh in there face when it's a 5th place finish and another trip to the big dance.
Quote from: GoMarquette23 on May 12, 2010, 06:10:17 PM
I have no idea how you can leave them out. especially having wisconsin as a honorable mention instead of marquette.
Just give it time and 84 will tell us we should be a Top 15 team, and anything less than that would be under-achieving. We do have alot of question marks, the biggest thing we lose is the experience of Lazar, Mo and Cooby. Crazy as it sounds, I think Mo Acker will be the hardest guy to replace. He played an excellent point last year, and Cadougan is nowhere near as good of shooter as MO. Hard to say, but from the looks of everything it seems Crowder should do a good job of filling in for Lazar...my bet is that he can give us 80% of what Lazar did as far as tangible things such as points/rebounds.
On the positive - DJO and Jimmy B should be better, as well as Buycks and Fulce. Throw Otule, Blue and Jones into the mix and I would say we have more potential upside than last year's team.
This stream is getting kinda gloomy. Lets take a breath..... Now, is anyone interested in picking MU to finish 12th in the Big East? I don't know about Katz but that's what many of the Supposedly In The Know were opining last year- And this is with Crean's guys,
Positioned under the radar again, is not bad thing . Trouble is it means nothing where it really counts.
Coaches, athletic departments and returning players know enough to be scared to death of the Marquette basketball program.
Last year it was Hayward, Butler and a whole lot of question marks. This year it's Butler, DJO and a whole lot of question marks. I have no doubt that eventually Blue, Cadougan, Smith and Jones will be better than Acker and Cubillan - but maybe not this year. Otule can't give us any less and Buycks rates to improve. Is Fulce healthy, has E Will improved? How good is Jae Crowder? We'll be younger but bigger, deeper and more athletic. We may be headed for a rollercoaster ride, but if Buzz could get last year's bunch to the tournament I'd think twice before selling this year's team short.
Quote from: Maryland Warrior on May 12, 2010, 07:51:45 PM
This stream is getting kinda gloomy. Lets take a breath..... Now, is anyone interested in picking MU to finish 12th in the Big East? I don't know about Katz but that's what many of the Supposedly In The Know were opining last year- And this is with Crean's guys,
Positioned under the radar again, is not bad thing
+1
I truly have no idea why anyone should think we deserve a pre-season ranking.
+1
Why do you think this team deserves a preseason ranking.
Quote from: Ners on May 12, 2010, 07:24:56 PM
On the positive - DJO and Jimmy B should be better, as well as Buycks and Fulce. Throw Otule, Blue and Jones into the mix and I would say we have more potential upside than last year's team.
Well said. Hopefully Buzz (and captains) get them to realize and play to their potential like last years team.
Quote from: Ners on May 12, 2010, 07:24:56 PM
Just give it time and 84 will tell us we should be a Top 15 team, and anything less than that would be under-achieving.
Lame. He will put together a proper argument, back it up with solid arguments, just like he did this past year.
Meanwhile there will be mind readers, psychics and others that will paint him as setting the team up to fail.
Of course, if he says the team will struggle and finish 12th, he will be labeled as a Buzz hater who doesn't believe in him or the team.
Completely lame.
Quote from: ATWizJr on May 12, 2010, 06:28:29 PM
Who cares? Isn't this why they play the games?
This is a message board, and we debate because we love ;)
Funny thing is that we don't even know who will be on the team next yr just yet, so lets let Nostradamus 84 wait until a full squad is set before we rip the guy.... How does that sound, eh Ners?
For what its worth, IF crowder gives that squad 80% of what Lazar gave in tangible measures (PPG and RPG) I will be more shocked than if Canadian Dimes makes it an entire season without making us all aware of a coach crean failure. That would likely make him newcomer of the year in the BE, which would be amazing. I appreciate your optimism, but even 50% of Lazar's production would be a pleasant surprise
I will also say that to me there is obviously much more doubt that Jimmy Butler can be the go to guy Lazar was, but slightly less doubt that DJO will improve as much as Butler did as the 2nd guy (and IMO pass up JB as leading scorer)
Also, anyone miss the haiku fella? I wish him a speedy return
Thanks for pointing out all those ifs. I think you just made my point.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 13, 2010, 12:16:46 AM
Lame. He will put together a proper argument, back it up with solid arguments, just like he did this past year.
Meanwhile there will be mind readers, psychics and others that will paint him as setting the team up to fail.
Of course, if he says the team will struggle and finish 12th, he will be labeled as a Buzz hater who doesn't believe in him or the team.
Completely lame.
I'm sorry Chicos - I didn't want to get you upset with my lameness. You know what's lame - is someone who cannot admit when they are wrong, or see two sides of an issue - which is what you and 84 both have in common. I asked 84 to at least acknowledge that he made his prediction predicated on last year's team having Maymon, Cadougan and Otule. He couldn't/wouldn't acknowledge. Furthermore, he tried to make the point that ESPN severaly underrated DJO with a 40 ranking - and had they not, more than likely they would have rated MU higher than a 12th place finish. Then, I pointed out that if that were the case - for MU to lose its two highest rated recruits last year - Cadougan and Maymon - and throw in the loss of Otule...that if ESPN knew this - more than likely they would have rated us lower than 12th. Simplly asked the guy to acknowledge that MU finishing 5th in the Big East given the loss of Big 3, the injuries/transfer and lack of size - was phenomonal. But nope - only you and your partner, 84 can't acknowledge that. Every other rational and reasonable MU fan's expectations were exceeded significantly.
What's lame is that you rush to the defense of 84 on everything. I truly believe that secretly you and 84 want MU to struggle under Buzz - just so you can "be right."
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 13, 2010, 12:16:46 AM
Lame. He will put together a proper argument, back it up with solid arguments, just like he did this past year.
Meanwhile there will be mind readers, psychics and others that will paint him as setting the team up to fail.
Of course, if he says the team will struggle and finish 12th, he will be labeled as a Buzz hater who doesn't believe in him or the team.
Completely lame.
When you're right, you're right.
Quote from: Ners on May 13, 2010, 08:29:55 AM
What's lame is that you rush to the defense of 84 on everything. I truly believe that secretly you and 84 want MU to struggle under Buzz - just so you can "be right."
or are they the same person?!?!
duh dun duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 13, 2010, 12:16:46 AM
Lame. He will put together a proper argument, back it up with solid arguments, just like he did this past year.
Meanwhile there will be mind readers, psychics and others that will paint him as setting the team up to fail.
Of course, if he says the team will struggle and finish 12th, he will be labeled as a Buzz hater who doesn't believe in him or the team.
Completely lame.
First you accuse anyone capable of analysis and logic of being "mind readers". Then you pull out your crystal ball, gaze into the future do your own mind reading thing. LOL
I'll wait to read 84's prediction and basis for it before I comment. I can't read minds and divine the future like you.
Lame. Completely lame.
Quote from: Ners on May 12, 2010, 07:24:56 PMJust give it time and 84 will tell us we should be a Top 15 team, and anything less than that would be under-achieving. We do have alot of question marks, the biggest thing we lose is the experience of Lazar, Mo and Cooby. Crazy as it sounds, I think Mo Acker will be the hardest guy to replace. He played an excellent point last year, and Cadougan is nowhere near as good of shooter as MO. Hard to say, but from the looks of everything it seems Crowder should do a good job of filling in for Lazar...my bet is that he can give us 80% of what Lazar did as far as tangible things such as points/rebounds.
+100
Not crazy at all. I think Butler is ready to step in as the team leader Lazar was, and we have plenty of candidates for the secondary frontcourt option (Fulce, Crowder, Jones, Otule). Cubillan was a great second point guard, and I'd feel comfortable with Cadougan filling that role, but Acker was simply fantastic for us. Clutch shooter, great ball handler, could slash to the basket when needed, and a great assist-to-turnover ratio. He exceeded my expecations by about a million miles. Butler and DJO will need to perform as we expect, Crowder will have to replace Lazar, but the most important player to our success next year is Junior Cadougan.
I did not expect us to be in the pre-season Top 25 of anyone. We have a lot to prove - we almost got ranked this year which would have been a huge success. If we get ranked next year, I'd porefer it be during the season; and I think that would gain be a huge success for us next year.
Quote from: Ners on May 13, 2010, 08:29:55 AM
I'm sorry Chicos - I didn't want to get you upset with my lameness. You know what's lame - is someone who cannot admit when they are wrong, or see two sides of an issue - which is what you and 84 both have in common. I asked 84 to at least acknowledge that he made his prediction predicated on last year's team having Maymon, Cadougan and Otule. He couldn't/wouldn't acknowledge.
Otule: You won't find
any evidence that I based my predictions based on any real contribution from Otule. So what if he was injured? This no more mattered to me than losing Roseboro. I expected nothing out of him, and thats exactly what we got.
Cadougan: You're wrong--I absolutely knew he was out for the year, and it didn't change my opinion on the team. I clearly said we'd be just fine with Acker. In the thread titled "Cadougan likely out for the year" here's what I said:
Quote from: Marquette84 on September 19, 2009, 04:38:23 PM
We lost the games, but give Acker a fair shake--he played decently, and put up a 2-1 assist to TO ratio against the six toughest opponents of the season. With the possible exception of Villanova, its unlikely we face anyone as tough as any of those five teams this season.
If Acker can match what he showed down the stretch, we'll be fine when the opposition isn't the elite eight.
So we'll see if you can take your own medicine--you claim I don't admit when I'm wrong--In this case you accused me of basing my prediction on expectations that Cadougan to be available--and you are clearly wrong.
Maymon: Here's where you might get partial credit. I did say Maymon would be better than Grimm, Amo, and Barro combined in 2006. Of course, that was setting a pretty low bar--which was kind of the point of using "combined." But you're correct--I did not predict he would leave 1/3 through the season.
Of course, I think you're overplaying the loss of Maymon--I never thought he would be one of the team's leaders. If you read what I had based my predictions on, you would have to admit that I clearly put more faith in Hayward and Butler and our two 1st Team Juco AAs than anyone around here did.
Of course, what you don't admit in your attempt at "gotcha" is that DJO, Butler and Cubillan were all better than I expected--Cubillan significantly so. Also, I didn't expect Acker to be a better 3 point shooter than Steve Novak was his senior year--and certainly didn't expect he and DJO to lead the Big East.
So if you were fair about this, you'd admit that the loss of Maymon is a wash with the stronger than expected efforts from DJO, Butler, Acker and Cubillan.
Quote from: Ners on May 12, 2010, 07:24:56 PM
Just give it time and 84 will tell us we should be a Top 15 team, and anything less than that would be under-achieving.
84 is Joanie's nom de plume. Bolstering the sagging image of her man, even if it means attacking a loyal assistant, is de rigeur for the Baroness of Bloomington. Don't forget, her brothers are big time football coaches.