I'm posting this question separately as I think it's worthy its own discussion ....
Last year their was numerous threads, and a lot of discussion, that Pat Hazel was leaving. Some of those posts were inspired by his (lack of) playing time down the stretch. Whatever, the reason, this board openly talked about him leaving and almost no one criticized those posts. He did leave (transferring to Boston U).
I started a thread asking "who is leaving"
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20395.0
A lot of people are critical of this thread and in it I defend my position for posting it. The fact is Buzz is still looking for a 2010 recruit, even today (May 1) with Hahn on campus this weekend. So, this is not baseless speculation as we already have a full contingent of 13 scholarship players.
Many are arguing that such talk could influence a player on the team to leave, or consider leaving.
So, why is this speculation destructive and the numerous "Hazel is leaving" post last year were not? Did MuScoop influence Hazel's decision to leave?
No. Hazel was already leaving for other reasons...
If you want credibility, get at least simple facts straight.
A. It is spelled Hazel.
B. He transfered to Boston University.
Quote from: buckchuckler on May 01, 2010, 06:10:56 PM
No. Hazel was already leaving for other reasons...
Exactly, MUscoop in no way influenced Pat to transfer. Pat brought the transfer on himself and hopefully he will succeed at Boston this upcoming season.
Ooooooh.
I love finally knowing the inside story about something that everyone alludes to but is too cool to share.
His transfer was set in stone long before the end of the season. Just like Carlton Christian before him he went from getting minutes to getting 0 minutes because of the impending transfer. That situation had nothing to do with this board.
The argument that Hazel's transfer was set in stone smacks as an after the fact rationalization. No one knew for sure until it actually happened. Yet I don't remember anyone jumping on the posters that said Hazel was leaving (before it was announced) and accusing them of encouraging Pat to leave and thus making it worse and reflecting poorly in our team.
Yet, many are saying that current speculation that someone is leaving reflects poorly now and might encourage some to actually leave.
Explain the difference? Or are criticizers being hypocritical?
Quote from: reinko on May 01, 2010, 06:16:01 PM
If you want credibility, get at least simple facts straight.
A. It is spelled Hazel.
B. He transfered to Boston University.
How does getting simple facts wrong (do to my laziness to Google it to refresh my memory) damage my credibility? I posted a bunch of questions, not facts. Their is no credibility to defend in this post.
If you want to bash or stir something up, surely you can do better than that. Otherwise this post makes you look anal and reflects poorly on you.
This is too stupid for more than an eleven word response.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on May 01, 2010, 06:49:46 PM
The argument that Hazel's transfer was set in stone smacks as an after the fact rationalization. No one knew for sure until it actually happened. Yet I don't remember anyone jumping on the posters that said Hazel was leaving (before it was announced) and accusing them of encouraging Pat to leave and thus making it worse and reflecting poorly in our team.
All you're showing here is a lack of knowledge. Hazel's transfer was set in stone well before the season ended and it was not a decision that was up in the air before it happened, nor was it a choice he had to make. He was not coming back and nothing was going to change it.
even if the transfer werent set in stone, to attribute influence to this message board severely overinflates our own sense of self-importance. while the vander thing stands as a clear counterexample, i think message boards were just one part of a greater culture of disrespect that he put up with growing up in the area and hearing all the talk. i surmise that the message boards impact on that situation is even overinflated.
Let's talk about the next walk-on to replace Frozena.....it would be more a more meaningful conversation.
Quote from: MUBurrow on May 01, 2010, 07:35:23 PM
even if the transfer werent set in stone, to attribute influence to this message board severely overinflates our own sense of self-importance. while the vander thing stands as a clear counterexample, i think message boards were just one part of a greater culture of disrespect that he put up with growing up in the area and hearing all the talk. i surmise that the message boards impact on that situation is even overinflated.
So you agree that those in the "who is leaving" post are over-inflating their worries in discussing who might be leaving a team with no scholarships with the coach actively looking for another player?
Quote from: bma725 on May 01, 2010, 07:30:57 PM
All you're showing here is a lack of knowledge. Hazel's transfer was set in stone well before the season ended and it was not a decision that was up in the air before it happened, nor was it a choice he had to make. He was not coming back and nothing was going to change it.
Another, I think it would be wise for you to infer something from this regarding the difference from the Hazel situation and the current situation.
QuoteSo you agree that those in the "who is leaving" post are over-inflating their worries in discussing who might be leaving a team with no scholarships with the coach actively looking for another player?
I think its a "how many grains of sand until you have a pile" type of thing. I think the board(s) can have an impact when considered within the scope of the atmosphere/culture in which they exist. If we were really making all the speculation up out of thin air, a recruit/player/whoever would likely shake his head, laugh and say "oh those guys." But if there are pieces of truth to the things we speculate, and they seize upon incomplete pieces of information, these boards can undoubtedly pile upon what might already be an overwhelmed and confused 19 year old kid. Eg: if someone is thinking about leaving because Buzz has been riding him hard or he has started to doubt himself, and then this board is piling on, it can seem like everywhere that young man turns, he is confronted with that issue and he feels attacked.
I don't know enough to speculate about the Hazel situation, but it seems like there is a broad consensus that his transfer had been basically etched in stone by the time us scavengers ever seized on it. As for this situation, which is implicitly about Mbao, I don't think these boards would be responsible for making him transfer, but they are definitely capable of being the last thing he needs to see - both for his personal confidence level and feeling wanted at the program.
I think the Vander situation was a little different (certainly from Hazel) in the sense that UW fans, assuming he was in the bag, started getting complacent in realizing that he was still a human being. He was commoditized, and scrutinized and criticized far more than appropriate. The boards get mentioned, and rightfully so, because they coalesced that negative culture in one place, and in clear print. So while I think a broader culture was at work in forcing his move, it would be folly to say that message boards weren't a crucial aspect of that.
MUScoop did not cause Patrick Hazel to make a very poor decision leading to his transfer out.
Quote from: MUBurrow on May 01, 2010, 08:41:56 PM
I don't know enough to speculate about the Hazel situation, but it seems like there is a broad consensus that his transfer had been basically etched in stone by the time us scavengers ever seized on it. As for this situation, which is implicitly about Mbao, I don't think these boards would be responsible for making him transfer, but they are definitely capable of being the last thing he needs to see - both for his personal confidence level and feeling wanted at the program.
Good post
To follow on your thoughts ... whatever doubt these boards might make in regards to a specific player's situation pale in comparison to the fact his coach is calling 2010 recruits in every weekend. That is the only relevant fact and the reason for this discussion. So, this is not baseless speculation, rather it is simple math.
So, a 7 footer "trying out" for a spot on a team with no spots doesn't hurt one's confidence. Asking who might be making room for that 7 footer does?
if Pat Hazel's (or any player's) decision to transfer came down to reading some unflattering posts on an internet forum from an incredibly small yet vocal minority, they are too thin skinned to play basketball at any major university. Guys should be able to put up with criticism at this point.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 01, 2010, 08:46:27 PM
MUScoop did not cause Patrick Hazel to make a very poor decision leading to his transfer out.
+100000
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on May 01, 2010, 06:49:46 PM
The argument that Hazel's transfer was set in stone smacks as an after the fact rationalization. No one knew for sure until it actually happened. Yet I don't remember anyone jumping on the posters that said Hazel was leaving (before it was announced) and accusing them of encouraging Pat to leave and thus making it worse and reflecting poorly in our team.
Yet, many are saying that current speculation that someone is leaving reflects poorly now and might encourage some to actually leave.
Explain the difference? Or are criticizers being hypocritical?
You must not know the reason why Hazel transferred. Put it this way, one of these things is not like the other.
A BETTER QUESTION
Are ridiculous threads started by AnotherMU84 an attempt to cause all users of MUScoop to transfer to another discussion board?
Quote from: Wareagle on May 01, 2010, 09:57:20 PM
You must not know the reason why Hazel transferred. Put it this way, one of these things is not like the other.
You're exactly correct ... I don't know why he left and I don't remember reading it here. It seems he did something bad and everyone is protecting him by not saying what it was. Had I known I would not have posted this thread.
And, I'm not interested in anyone airing his dirty laundry.
Quote from: LittleMurs on May 01, 2010, 10:00:22 PM
A BETTER QUESTION
Are ridiculous threads started by AnotherMU84 an attempt to cause all users of MUScoop to transfer to another discussion board?
haha yup definitely laughed at this
Quote from: lawwarrior12 on May 01, 2010, 06:33:08 PM
His transfer was set in stone long before the end of the season. Just like Carlton Christian before him he went from getting minutes to getting 0 minutes because of the impending transfer. That situation had nothing to do with this board.
Agree re Hazel. But, Christian was not forced out. TC actually was trying to hold on to Carlton before he transferred to UCF. You must be thinking of Mathews or Bell or Mortenson...?
I meant that Christian went from playing to not playing almost overnight. The explanation we had was that he told Crean he was going to xfer and then Crean stopped giving him minutes.
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