Colin Cowherd is reporting on ESPN that UCONN will join the big ten. He says he's also hearing that Utah and Colorado are being courted by the PAC-10.
edit: subject question mark
Quote from: mu77vegas on April 20, 2010, 10:25:54 AM
Colin Cowherd is reporting on ESPN that UCONN will join the big ten. He says he's also hearing that Utah and Colorado are being courted by the PAC-10.
They are also saying that Pitt and Rutgers will be joining UConn to the Big Ten.
If true, bye bye Big East as we know it. <sigh>
I thought Cowherd said he wished Pitt & Rutgers would also join - not that they actually are joining.
Cowherd's been squawking about this for a while now. He loves to take shots at the Big East because its basketball is stronger than its football. He's a big college football fan and amittedly doesn't like college basketball.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/20/sports/20colleges.html?ref=sports
Bleh... college football always ruins everything.
Does Cowherd have any facts behind this? Or is he just speculating yet again?
college football does always ruin everything. hopefully this is just bs speculation.
Nothing on ESPN.com as of noon ET.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on April 20, 2010, 10:48:11 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/20/sports/20colleges.html?ref=sports
Crouthamel is a moron. Ask Syracuse fans how they feel about how he fubbed up the end of his tenure.
This is either really irresponsible reporting by mu77vegas or Cowherd, I'm guessing the former. If Cowherd did indeed say definitively that UCONN was joining the Big Ten then the fault lies with him, but I doubt he did considering it's not even on ESPN's site. However, I'm guessing it was taken out of context by mu77vegas and made to be true in the subject line. It's misleading and frustrating. Everyone obviously wants to know what's going to happen, but that doesn't mean we should start posting speculation as truth--more regarding the subject line than the body.
If this were true, it would be all over Google News with a search .. it is not. (at the moment.)
Cowherd was speculating, nothing official. It would not surprise me because they have the football and basketball, plus the New York market is what the Big Ten wants.
I hope Cottingham has a plan.
The Big 11 will not invite a school that is not part of the American Association of Universities. UConn is not a member
http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476
I hope Cottingham has reached out to Nova, Gtown, X and Dayton. They would be our best hope once the dust settles.
One far out there prediction - after this all settles down in 5-10 years, Syracuse could drop football or move down to 1-AA. I just don't see where they land.
If this happens, it's really remarkable for UCONN. There is no way to measure how big their victory over ND was in football last year. Not only did it seal the fate of Charlie Weis and earn them a trip to a bowl, it legitimized their entire football program. This is a school that didn't have a D1 football team a dozen years ago. Now they're on the doorstep of joining the Big Ten? Unbelievable, really. And I'll tell you what, if ND doesn't get on board with one of these conferences, they're going to have a very difficult time becoming relevant again.
Quote from: Shanunu on April 20, 2010, 11:00:15 AM
Does Cowherd have any facts behind this? Or is he just speculating yet again?
Clarification: Cowherd said he heard from a reliable source (he said he had inside information) that UCONN was joining the big ten. These are HIS words paraphrased. Of course Cowherd has been known to hype things (like himself). I'm just stating what I hear HIM say this morning.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 20, 2010, 11:40:53 AM
I hope Cottingham has a plan.
Honestly, if a major shakeup happens, what can Cottingham do? Other than working with ADs at other institutions to create a new conference, what sort of plan can be realistically undertaken?
IF true, then other east coast teams must be going to the big 10 as well. Otherwise UConn is an island. They will suffer. Their basketball will suffer as well as recruits won't want to be playing in the Midwest. Bad move, if true which I doubt, unless Syracuse and Rutgers or ? Go with.
Whether accurate or not Cowherd is a turd.
Quote from: RJax55 on April 20, 2010, 12:15:07 PM
Honestly, if a major shakeup happens, what can Cottingham do? Other than working with ADs at other institutions to create a new conference, what sort of plan can be realistically undertaken?
That is exactly what CBB hopes he has a plan for.
Quote from: GOO on April 20, 2010, 12:18:45 PM
IF true, then other east coast teams must be going to the big 10 as well. Otherwise UConn is an island. They will suffer. Their basketball will suffer as well as recruits won't want to be playing in the Midwest. Bad move, if true which I doubt, unless Syracuse and Rutgers or ? Go with.
UConn, or any other BE school, really can't afford to say "no" if the B10 offers. The money is too good.
Quote from: GOO on April 20, 2010, 12:18:45 PM
IF true, then other east coast teams must be going to the big 10 as well. Otherwise UConn is an island. They will suffer. Their basketball will suffer as well as recruits won't want to be playing in the Midwest. Bad move, if true which I doubt, unless Syracuse and Rutgers or ? Go with.
When Penn St moved to the B10, it destroyed their bball program. As you said, it's tough to recruit in the NY/NJ/Balt. areas when all of your games are in the midwest. The B10 wont make the same mistake again. If they pull UConn, they will most certainly pull other programs (a combination of Rutgers, Pitt, WV, SU). With several BE programs, the current B10 schools can penetrate the recruiting circuit and soften the blow for the BE schools that leave by ensuring them there will be a mini-BE within the B10.
UConn will only go if in tandem w/the other NY Big East schools (Syracuse and Rutgers). Big 10 can't get full NY media market penetration with just UConn alone, and it serves UConn as no good to be an island alone on the East Coast.
Remember, this conference expansion talk isn't about academic fit, geography, or even football revenue alone. It's whatever combination of schools, whether it be 1, 3, or 5, maximizes revenues for the current Big 10 schools and expands the overall distribution of the Big 10 Network.
What that combination is, whether it includes ND, Rutgers, Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, Texas, Nebraska, Missouri, etc., we don't know. The Big 10 certainly does, and all we can do is sit back and wait just like everyone else.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on April 20, 2010, 12:39:53 PM
When Penn St moved to the B10, it destroyed their bball program.
Penn State never has had much of a basketball program. They went to the Final Four in 1954. Outside of that, most of their success (and that means one Sweet 16 appearance and an NIT Championship) have come since 2000.
In fact, when PSU joined the B10, I remember them talking about it helping their basketball program since they were not invited to join the BE. (Still the most short-sighted decision made by the Big East. They didn't want to give PSU a cut of the basketball action in return for an eastern football conference, and it is probably why the BE is heading into this period of uncertainty right now.)
Pitino made some comments yesterday about BE defensive measures...
"In basketball, we don't get as concerned as football," Pitino said. "Football does probably generate the most money in collegiate athletics. If that's true, we have to be proactive and make sure that we have three teams. Remember, it happened once before to the Big East and they immediately got Louisville and South Florida, so right now the Big East has got to be ready. OK, if this does happen we've got to be proactive, we've got to be ready for Central Florida, we've got to be ready to get two other programs into this equation."
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/knights/os-ucf-football-0420-20100419,0,7381365.story
Quote from: Marquette_g on April 20, 2010, 12:21:04 PM
Whether accurate or not Cowherd is a turd.
+1
I got a sick feeling in my stomach when I heard him talking about it. When one thinks about it logically though, someone's going to make a move soon... Ugh!
Does the NCAA have any say in this?
Who cares? Yes, UConn has a lot of great history but Calhoun built that program and he will probably die in that program. If they don't hand the program off to a good coach, that program could take a dive. If this move happens, BEast should look into getting some up and coming program like a Dayton, Butler, Temple, so something like that. I am not saying UConn = these other teams but its not the end of the Big East if UConn moves. UConn was garbage last season and sadly, Calhoun is a ticking time bomb. If he has more health issues, the team will hit the same speed bump it hit this last season.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on April 20, 2010, 01:31:46 PM
Who cares? Yes, UConn has a lot of great history but Calhoun built that program and he will probably die in that program. If they don't hand the program off to a good coach, that program could take a dive. If this move happens, BEast should look into getting some up and coming program like a Dayton, Butler, Temple, so something like that. I am not saying UConn = these other teams but its not the end of the Big East if UConn moves. UConn was garbage last season and sadly, Calhoun is a ticking time bomb. If he has more health issues, the team will hit the same speed bump it hit this last season.
Who cares about UConn? Really? Yeah, they had a bad season last year so they are obviously expendable. Didnt Lute Olson essentially build UofA? Health problems? Check. Stayed too long? Check. Program on shaky ground for 3 or so years? Check. In comes Sean Miller. UofA now right back in the mix of top 20-type recruits from all over the country. In another year or two, they will be right where Olson had them prior to his health issues.
And it is the end of the BE if UConn goes (at least as we know it). If UConn goes, it means other programs are leaving as well because there is no doubt in my mind that UConn is not the B10's No.1 target - not when they can add Pitt and instantly create a natural rivalry with Penn St. If they are serious about taking UConn then Im sure there are two others going with them. The rest of the fball schools will scramble for the ACC. The ones that are left without a home join a patched-up fball conference that blows (more than it does even now). I would much rather see Rutgers, Pitt and WV go than UConn and two others.
so it seems as if we scoopers believe the only option if the BEast falls apart is for MU and the other bball only schools to create their own basketball conference...
however, couldnt Marquette or GTown or any of the other bball-only schools just latch onto an expanded Big Ten or ACC as a basketball only school? in 2004 the BEast seemed pretty interested in adding a basketball-only wing to the conference...whats to say one of the new mega-conferences wont do the same?
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on April 20, 2010, 01:47:29 PM
Who cares about UConn? Really? Yeah, they had a bad season last year so they are obviously expendable. Didnt Lute Olson essentially build UofA? Health problems? Check. Stayed too long? Check. Program on shaky ground for 3 or so years? Check. In comes Sean Miller. UofA now right back in the mix of top 20-type recruits from all over the country. In another year or two, they will be right where Olson had them prior to his health issues.
And it is the end of the BE if UConn goes (at least as we know it). If UConn goes, it means other programs are leaving as well because there is no doubt in my mind that UConn is not the B10's No.1 target - not when they can add Pitt and instantly create a natural rivalry with Penn St. If they are serious about taking UConn then Im sure there are two others going with them. The rest of the fball schools will scramble for the ACC. The ones that are left without a home join a patched-up fball conference that blows (more than it does even now). I would much rather see Rutgers, Pitt and WV go than UConn and two others.
I think there is some over reaction here. Three BEast teams are not moving. If so, then the opening can appeal to some of the solid teams in other conferences. Big East will not become C-USA, which is what you guys are making this to be. Plus, if a team leaves, it will most likely be Pitt. UConn doesn't make geographic sense at all.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on April 20, 2010, 02:00:54 PM
I think there is some over reaction here. Three BEast teams are not moving. If so, then the opening can appeal to some of the solid teams in other conferences. Big East will not become C-USA, which is what you guys are making this to be. Plus, if a team leaves, it will most likely be Pitt. UConn doesn't make geographic sense at all.
As many as 5 Big East teams could possibly leave for the Big Televen. Even if it's just 1 team, who is going to fill that spot? Replacing ND, Pitt, Syracuse, UConn, or Rutgers with Central Florida isn't exactly moving in the right direction?
Our best case scenario is that only ND goes to the Big Televen and that's it, then we bring in Xavier for basketball, and football remains unchanged.
UCONN does NOT get invited into the Big Ten. They lack the requisite academic heft. Storrs is a quaint after thought in a sea of academic excellence.
Litehouse. I can't see ND going to the Big 10 without bringing some east coast teams in as well. ND joining the big 10 alone, I just don't see it. My guess is ND says no, unless a Maryland, BC, Rutgers, VA, or some combination join the big 10 as well. If it is only about football, then join the big 10. If it is also about the school, alumni, where students come from, where the money is/donors, etc, they need the east coast connection.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on April 20, 2010, 10:48:11 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/20/sports/20colleges.html?ref=sports
I love how any discussion of conference expansion has apparently failed to mention the Big East's 27 month waiting period since I hadn't heard about it until reading that.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on April 20, 2010, 02:36:45 PM
I love how any discussion of conference expansion has apparently failed to mention the Big East's 27 month waiting period since I hadn't heard about it until reading that.
I fail to see how this is in any way a barrier or deterrent to defecting.
Quote from: DawsonCreekFillanderer on April 20, 2010, 02:38:05 PM
I fail to see how this is in any way a barrier or deterrent to defecting.
It means a team leaving the Big East has to be official by 3 months before the start of football season for any changes to happen as fast as possible.
For example, if UConn announced their move to the B10 today, they would be eligible to officially leave the Big East on July 20, 2012.
Quote from: RJax55 on April 20, 2010, 12:15:07 PM
Honestly, if a major shakeup happens, what can Cottingham do? Other than working with ADs at other institutions to create a new conference, what sort of plan can be realistically undertaken?
That would be part of the plan....to create those alliances with other programs as a fallback. Putting it another way, I hope we are proactively looking for backup plans that we can insert ourselves into rather than waiting for the chips to fall and see where we land. I have to assume there are conversations in the background, I sure as hell hope so.
Quote from: LAZER on April 20, 2010, 01:25:22 PM
Does the NCAA have any say in this?
Not really. The NCAA doesn't make up conferences or decide the structure. Let's not forget that the NCAA is a voluntary organization. A school can decide to not belong any governing body, or can join the NAIA or the NCAA.
At the end of the day, the NCAA has standards, rules, policies, etc, like any governing body has, but they don't have the power to prevent this.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 20, 2010, 11:40:53 AM
Cowherd was speculating, nothing official. It would not surprise me because they have the football and basketball, plus the New York market is what the Big Ten wants.
I hope Cottingham has a plan.
Pretty tough to have a plan when he really does not know how many teams leave. This is out of anything he can control.
Quote from: DawsonCreekFillanderer on April 20, 2010, 02:22:09 PM
UCONN does NOT get invited into the Big Ten. They lack the requisite academic heft. Storrs is a quaint after thought in a sea of academic excellence.
Currently, that is correct. That doesn't mean the Big Ten can't change their standards. They have many times over the years in many areas. There was a point in time where Michigan State was never going to be a member, but they changed their tune. Michigan at one point was in the conference and left only to come back again. They were the Big 9 then the Big 10, now the Big Eleven but without the name change.
Things can change, they always do. They've changed standards over the years on transfers, on eligibility, etc. No reason they couldn't change this policy as well. Certainly the university presidents, etc would raise holy hell but we're talking about a ton of money that could sway those presidents.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on April 20, 2010, 02:36:45 PM
I love how any discussion of conference expansion has apparently failed to mention the Big East's 27 month waiting period since I hadn't heard about it until reading that.
The $5 million buyout is peanuts. The 27 month out-clause I would imagine has no real teeth in it. Besides, that's only a little more than 2 years. If the Big Ten said today they were going to expand, it would take at LEAST 2 years for it to be worked out anyway, so that 27 months is nothing in reality. Football schedules are set years in advance.
Quote from: 79Warrior on April 20, 2010, 03:25:25 PM
Pretty tough to have a plan when he really does not know how many teams leave. This is out of anything he can control.
Maybe plan is a poor word....in my world you we view it possible scenarios (which we call plans). If A, then B. If AB, then C. Etc, etc.
I hope that if the Big East were to lose more than 1 team and it means a destruction of the league, we are going through multiple scenarios (planning) on where we plan to be, or how we can best position ourselves to be in a position of desire.
I believe in proactive preparation as much as possible. HOPE IS NOT A STRATEGY, thus hoping it all works out would not be a good deal. If the Big Ten only takes one, it's minor tremble. If they take 3 or more, the world is going to change dramatically and we should have a lot of potential scenarios worked out in terms of what that means for Marquette.
1) Stay in the Big East (what's left of it)
2) Align with other basketball only schools to form a new conference
Etc, etc
My guess is due to the financial situation, we're going to stay in the Big East because that's where the money is, but that is only a short term solution because if the Big East becomes a shadow of what they were, the television money runs dry when the new contract comes up (if not sooner due to the radical changes which the networks will surely try to exploit as a breach in the contract).
If as many as 5 Big East teams leave for the Big Ten, at least the $25M would help buy some time for the remaining members. I assume the remaining members would also retain the NCAA tournament units and payouts left behind by the departing members.
So, you're saying hope and change don't work out. ;D
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 20, 2010, 03:42:18 PM
So, you're saying hope and change don't work out. ;D
Sure as hell hasn't out here...... :o
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 20, 2010, 03:38:39 PM
the television money runs dry when the new contract comes up (if not sooner due to the radical changes which the networks will surely try to exploit as a breach in the contract).
Do the remaining schools then sue the departing schools to make up the difference in TV contract revenue? This would all get really ugly.
MU could always go back to being an independant with ND :-P
oh, and hope and change dont work out west because your state tax system is a disaster, and unrealistic. ;)... but that topic is verboten.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on April 20, 2010, 02:36:45 PM
I love how any discussion of conference expansion has apparently failed to mention the Big East's 27 month waiting period since I hadn't heard about it until reading that.
Actually, the Big Ten requires a 36 month waiting period for teams to join after they have been offered and accepted. So the Big East's 27 month wait wouldn't be a factor with them.
Let's not forget that Notre Dame was formerly invited 2 decades ago and declined. They are NOT a member of the AAU either. Yes, it's true that the AAU has all 11 of the Big Ten schools plus the University of Chicago (an original Big Ten member) as belonging to the club, but that does not mean that they can't invite a non-AAU member to play.
http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 20, 2010, 03:59:38 PM
Let's not forget that Notre Dame was formerly invited 2 decades ago and declined. They are NOT a member of the AAU either. Yes, it's true that the AAU has all 11 of the Big Ten schools plus the University of Chicago (an original Big Ten member) as belonging to the club, but that does not mean that they can't invite a non-AAU member to play.
http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476
Notre Dame was invited, and declined, in 1999.
I'm tired of hearing people on this board even mentioning the words Dayton and good in the same sentence! It would be a disaster. Are we rooting for the same program here? C'mon... people! Mid major here we come!!! Yeah!!!! And there are people on this board who seem to not care. Absurd!
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 20, 2010, 03:46:57 PM
MU could always go back to being an independant with ND :-P
oh, and hope and change dont work out west because your state tax system is a disaster, and unrealistic. ;)... but that topic is verboten.
Yet somehow it worked out just fine for decades....until CHANGE came about, and not the most recent one, but about 1994.....but that topic is verboten.
Quote from: jt92 on April 20, 2010, 04:29:50 PM
I'm tired of hearing people on this board even mentioning the words Dayton and good in the same sentence! It would be a disaster. Are we rooting for the same program here? C'mon... people! Mid major here we come!!! Yeah!!!! And there are people on this board who seem to not care. Absurd!
Yes, but part of putting any conference together is that it has to have a top and a bottom. You can't have 10 teams that are the '27 Yankees. Certainly you need teams that are all willing to make minimum commitments to success but some are more willing than others. Dayton wouldn't be a bad addition depending on what the end objective is. Not my first choice, but there are many others that come behind them.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 20, 2010, 04:22:30 PM
Notre Dame was invited, and declined, in 1999.
Does 1999 count as two decades ago? Is 2010 the new decade?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 20, 2010, 04:41:29 PM
Does 1999 count as two decades ago? Is 2010 the new decade?
Technically, 2011 is the new decade...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 20, 2010, 04:41:29 PM
Does 1999 count as two decades ago? Is 2010 the new decade?
Well...OK...I was thinking 20 years. :D
Quote from: jt92 on April 20, 2010, 04:29:50 PM
I'm tired of hearing people on this board even mentioning the words Dayton and good in the same sentence! It would be a disaster. Are we rooting for the same program here? C'mon... people! Mid major here we come!!! Yeah!!!! And there are people on this board who seem to not care. Absurd!
It really wasn't that long ago that the general public considered Marquette a mid major. A "mid major" got to the championship game. I would gladly have Butler in the BEast.
Dayton beat us two years ago and when we were in the same conference with them they beat us a lot.
No one *wants* the BE to break apart and have MU scrambling. That's Chico's point. Just wishing and praying for good things isn't going to make it happen. Dayton, Xavier and St. Louis may end up being our best options.
This would be tragic for the big east
Quote from: jt92 on April 20, 2010, 04:29:50 PM
I'm tired of hearing people on this board even mentioning the words Dayton and good in the same sentence! It would be a disaster. Are we rooting for the same program here? C'mon... people! Mid major here we come!!! Yeah!!!! And there are people on this board who seem to not care. Absurd!
Dayton has a solid fan base and a good tradition. MU is not going to have tons of choices as we are not a football program. we will scramble to assemble the best conference we can and Dayton is a very solid program.
Sorry to say, but I agree that a conference where the "premiere" rivals are Dayton and SLU is downright pathetic. If we're in the same conference as some of these teams people like to mention I'll start watching the ACC. And it's not like I'll have a choice anyway, since our games won't be on TV. And since everyone will be getting in the tournament anyway we should just slice our basketball budget in half since it's a waste of money to spend that much and have the reward be seeing Rick Majerus two or three times a year.
But before we get too crazy with some of these scenarios, remember that the Big Ten gets a large revenue boost for adding one team and getting the championship game (assuming the Pac 10 fails in its attempt to re-write the pointless and outdated rule). From there, there will be very few teams certain to boost the revenue share for all the current members and probably zero that they would see as fit to bring in if team #12 is Notre Dame.
Second, even if one of the craziest of these shuffle scenarios happens, it's not like all that's left are small private schools without football. Assuming the Big East and Big 12 are going to be raided the most there are still a TON of respectable athletic programs left. If somehow, without considering money or logic, 16 is determined to be the correct number, even if the major conferences only steal from only other major conferences (i.e. the Mountain West and WAC teams, Central Florida, ECU, and Memphis all are left out) it will still leave many teams on the outside. If the "leftovers" include some current Big East and Big 12 teams with football and they have to pull from mid-majors to get to 12 football teams, they won't hesitate to bring in 4-6 basketball-only powers to give the conference some prestige, name recognition, and money. It's more likely we find ourselves in a conference with a good helping of current BE schools, Memphis, and a couple of Big 12 leftovers than we are to start talking to SLU and Creighton.
Maybe Dayton can host the conference tournament every year too!!! That will be great "mid-major marquette here we come!" And fans are loving it. Please stop trying to ration this. This is an utter disaster unfloding before our eyes and people on this board actually seem as if the likes of Dayton (using them as an example) is a good thing.
"well they beat us so they must be good!!!" Brilliant!
As long as we stick close with G-town, Nova, a rejuvinated DePaul, and a rejuvinated St. John's, that is 5 core schools for a good conference.
I also would have to think that at some point, these university presidents and their coaches would have to start considering a law of diminishing returns effect of making your conference too large.
Look at how much some of the Big East hoops coaches have complained about the 16 team arrangement being a coach killer. What would a 14 or 16 team football league look like in terms of that amongst the football coaches? Think of all the coaches that will get canned (who ordinarily wouldn't) for 9-3, 8-4 seasons just because they can't get over the hill to a conference title/BCS game because the league is TOO stacked.
Outside of money, does Northwestern think it's a good idea to add 3-5 schools, if some of those schools include say Texas and ND? They've become very competitive in the Big 10 in the last 15 years in football. How would Fran McCaffery feel about having to also recruit against Rick Barnes, Jim Calhoun, and Jim Boeheim in addition to Tom Izzo, Matt Painter, Bruce Weber, Tom Crean, Bo Ryan, and Tubby Smith? Iowa would never stand a chance at getting out of the Big 10 basement.
Look at how outspoken Jamie Dixon was about Pitt possibly joining the Big 10. You would have to figure that some of the Big 10 coaches are complaining to their ADs/University Presidents that getting too big is going to make things more difficult for their teams.
i am so pissed at this. i watch the big 10/11 for football, and kind of root for the BADgers when it comes to this. i will forever hate the whole league if they destroy the big east as we know it. if only 1 big east school leaves, fine. we can overcome that. no matter who it is. when your talking 5 teams? we (being MU) are done. the league will suck. if one football school leaves i don't think you go after central fla. you go after boston college. i'm still shocked they went to the acc, and they are probably regretting it. geographically it is a horrible decision. let the acc worry about who they get to fill that hole. i think BC would jump back into the big east if they had an opportunity.