MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on April 15, 2010, 11:51:43 AM
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Assuming no injuries, is this the year that MU pressures 94 feet for 40 minutes? We will have the athletes and the depth to pressure and disrupt the entire game. And we no longer have to let uncontested layups happen because of a fear of foul trouble. Granted, this is assuming a normal level of progression from the returnees, a healthy Otule (and to a lesser extent Yous), a quantum leap forward from Ewill, and that the newcomers are as athletic and hard working as advertised. We know what Buzz' offense looks like. Now lets see what his defense looks like when he has depth and options.
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Next year... My bet is that we still play a seven and half man rotation. I would say that Smith, Jones, and Newbill ride the bench given Buzz's track record with freshmen. I wouldn't be shocked if Blue gets about 10 minutes a game.
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Assuming no injuries, is this the year that MU pressures 94 feet for 40 minutes?
I hope they don't, and I don't think they will, because it is an inherently weak defense that good teams can beat regularly. As a change up at times? Sure. For 40 minutes? Hell no.
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I hope they don't, and I don't think they will, because it is an inherently weak defense that good teams can beat regularly. As a change up at times? Sure. For 40 minutes? Hell no.
I agree with this thought process. Similar to Lousy-ville, to change tempo or increase the number of possessions. Especially if in a deep hole due to poor shooting or half-court D....whatever.
Running it all day against teams without a solid PG is ok, but not against teams with 1-2 very good ball handlers, nor good coaches.
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Next year... My bet is that we still play a seven and half man rotation. I would say that Smith, Jones, and Newbill ride the bench given Buzz's track record with freshmen. I wouldn't be shocked if Blue gets about 10 minutes a game.
what is buzz's track record w/ freshman...the only one who didn't play and "could have" was eric williams.
Has Buzz ever had the caliber freshman in jones and blue? I would expect Jones, and Blue to both get good minutes and the other frosh 5-10/game
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what is buzz's track record w/ freshman...the only one who didn't play and "could have" was eric williams.
Has Buzz ever had the caliber freshman in jones and blue? I would expect Jones, and Blue to both get good minutes and the other frosh 5-10/game
Otule... bench
JC... bench
Maymon (considered the prize recruit)... less than 10
Mbao... bench
EWill... bench
I just don't see him playing a bunch of freshmen next year all of a sudden when we have a bunch of vets: Butler, Otule, DJO, Buycks, Fulce, Junior, EWill, and Crowder. I see only one MAYBE two freshmen getting quality time.
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Otule... bench
JC... bench
Maymon (considered the prize recruit)... less than 10
Mbao... bench
EWill... bench
I just don't see him playing a bunch of freshmen next year all of a sudden when we have a bunch of vets: Butler, Otule, DJO, Buycks, Fulce, Junior, EWill, and Crowder. I see only one MAYBE two freshmen getting quality time.
Otule, hurt. Played sparingly when he returned.
Cadougan, hurt, played sparingly when he returned
Yous, not ready, as anyone who watched could see
Maymon, 16 mpg, not 10.
Ewill, generally not ready, though he showed flashes near the end of the year.
The blanket statement about buzz and freshman that is more accurate is that they have to earn their minutes, particularly on defense. JMay earned his 16 mpg. From what I saw, no more, no less.
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Otule, hurt. Played sparingly when he returned.
Cadougan, hurt, played sparingly when he returned
Yous, not ready, as anyone who watched could see
Maymon, 16 mpg, not 10.
Ewill, generally not ready, though he showed flashes near the end of the year.
The blanket statement about buzz and freshman that is more accurate is that they have to earn their minutes, particularly on defense. JMay earned his 16 mpg. From what I saw, no more, no less.
So barring injuries... Are three freshmen (Blue, Smith, Jones) going to beat out the returning players (+Crowder) for minutes? I am a firm believer in a solid eight man rotation over a ten man rotation. Do you think Buzz is going to have a ten man rotation
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Agreed - JMay likely would have been over the 20 mpg mark by the time conference got under way, so I think the sample set for Buzz is just too small to really blanket his philosophy. Provided the newcomers stay healthy, I think this year will be very telling regarding freshman playing time as we having a large spectrum of recruits coming in.
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I assumed everyone remembered / knew about those injuries thats why I didn't detail them.
1 man rotation next year w/ Otule paroling the paint vs. the other 5
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Next year... My bet is that we still play a seven and half man rotation. I would say that Smith, Jones, and Newbill ride the bench given Buzz's track record with freshmen. I wouldn't be shocked if Blue gets about 10 minutes a game.
I would be shocked if Jamail Jones rides the bench. This would only happen if he doesn't turn up the intensity on the defensive end. Offensively, I might go out on a limb and say he'll be the 3rd best offensive player on the team behind Jimmy Butler and DJO...possibly behind Crowder as well. I guess Jamail plays 15-20 minute per game.
And we no longer have to let uncontested layups happen because of a fear of foul trouble.
Good point on the fact that maybe we played a little soft defensively down low for fear of foul trouble by Hayward or Butler - but - it is very evident Buzz-ball REQUIRES that we foul less than the opposition, thereby winning the free throw attempts battle. His stated goal is to make more than they take, and the only way to do this is to foul less, and be the more aggressive offensive team.
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Imo... J mays minutes would've gone down had he played in the BE. Possibly below 10 mpg.
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I am a firm believer in a solid eight man rotation over a ten man rotation
Buzz is a firm believer in the ten man rotation, if he has enough high major players to do it. Washington's depth was the reason he gave for the NCAA loss. Buzz also would like to have the ability to give another team different looks and to try and cause matchup problems which requires using his bench. He has said that he wasn't able to do that his first two years and he felt limited by that.
Do you think Buzz is going to have a ten man rotation
Yes, provided he feels that he has ten players he can trust out on the floor.
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Personally, I am hoping that we develop and play the bench regualrly and early int he season to get them some experience. We will have very good players on the bench, and I would liek to see them get a few minutes herea nd there to get their D1 ball going, and to contribute.
We need a bench and I would be disappointed if we went 7.5 deep.
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Agreed - JMay likely would have been over the 20 mpg mark by the time conference got under way, so I think the sample set for Buzz is just too small to really blanket his philosophy. Provided the newcomers stay healthy, I think this year will be very telling regarding freshman playing time as we having a large spectrum of recruits coming in.
JM's minutes were going down, not up, when he bailed.
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JM's minutes were going down, not up, when he bailed.
I'm not sure why you would say that. Maymon was clearly improving while playing. In fact, I thought the UW game was his best game defensively. They took Hayward off of Leuer...and Maymon did a damn good job.
I know we all want to trash the guy, but I find it hard to believe that on a team lacking size, that he wouldn't have found some pretty good minutes over the course of the BE season.
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JM's minutes were going down, not up, when he bailed.
I'm not sure that the statement that JMay bailed on MU is accurate. I heard that JMay wanted to stay, but its difficult to keep a guy on the team when his Dad and AAU coach show up and demand to go over the coach's head and talk to the athletic director about the head coach's deficiencies in utilizing the player. At that point, the head coach's credibility with the team is put into play.
When kids young men make poor choices and have to pay the piper, its sad. When the adults who are responsible for providing guidance to those young men make poor choices and the young man has to pay the price, its pathetic.
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So barring injuries... Are three freshmen (Blue, Smith, Jones) going to beat out the returning players (+Crowder) for minutes? I am a firm believer in a solid eight man rotation over a ten man rotation. Do you think Buzz is going to have a ten man rotation
Yes, I do. He has said his ideal is a 9.5 man rotation. He has said he wants a team full of high major players. He has expressed admiration for the rotations that Missouri and Washington were able to play against us. If he has 10 players who perform to his standards, he will play a 10 man rotation. Zar, Cubi and Acker graduating opens up 105 minutes a game. That is a lot of opportunity for a lot of guys.
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Not sure I want to see a 10 man rotation....ever (at least with the quality of players Buzz has brought in so far). To recruit 10 high major players is no easy task - there will be a drop off in talent somewhere. Pitino does an excellent job recruiting; he gets higher calibur freshmen than Buzz and his back-end guys are still solid players. Our best players arent as good as Lou's so you have to hope that our back-end guys are better. That's a tough task to do year in and year out.
Still think Buzz needs to focus on Chicago for recruiting. Chi kids go all over the place because there really isnt one particular solid school kids choose year after year. Gotta take care of our own backyard before you venture into cities much further away.
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Not sure I want to see a 10 man rotation....ever (at least with the quality of players Buzz has brought in so far). To recruit 10 high major players is no easy task - there will be a drop off in talent somewhere. Pitino does an excellent job recruiting; he gets higher calibur freshmen than Buzz and his back-end guys are still solid players. Our best players arent as good as Lou's so you have to hope that our back-end guys are better. That's a tough task to do year in and year out.
Still think Buzz needs to focus on Chicago for recruiting. Chi kids go all over the place because there really isnt one particular solid school kids choose year after year. Gotta take care of our own backyard before you venture into cities much further away.
Dude - You compliment virtually every Big East program except Marquette...and make these subtle snide remarks such as: as least with the quality of players Buzz has brought in so far. Go be a Louisville fan, or Syracuse fan - most of your posts ride the jock of everything Syracuse does..and now you mention Lville above? Please..Buzz just beat down Pitinos ass this year. Jim Boeheim has been at Cuse what, 35 years?? Buzz is in year 2, going on 3...and has landed JUCO player of the year, 1st team all american jucos, 6 Top 100 kids....what more do you want from the dude..if you realy are a Marquette fan...which most evidence points toward you not being. Speaking of which, what dorm are the MUY basketball players housed in? I'd assume you know this from your time at MU, right?
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Dude - You compliment virtually every Big East program except Marquette...and make these subtle snide remarks such as: as least with the quality of players Buzz has brought in so far. Go be a Louisville fan, or Syracuse fan - most of your posts ride the jock of everything Syracuse does..and now you mention Lville above? Please..Buzz just beat down Pitinos ass this year. Jim Boeheim has been at Cuse what, 35 years?? Buzz is in year 2, going on 3...and has landed JUCO player of the year, 1st team all american jucos, 6 Top 100 kids....what more do you want from the dude..if you realy are a Marquette fan...which most evidence points toward you not being. Speaking of which, what dorm are the MUY basketball players housed in? I'd assume you know this from your time at MU, right?
Thank you, NERS!!!!!!
This twerp is really getting me p*ssed off too! Over on the Knight to Kentucky thread, he and HoopsMalone are trying to figure out how we can make the Big East less competitive, so poor little MU will have some hope of winning it some day.
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Thank you, NERS!!!!!!
This twerp is really getting me p*ssed off too! Over on the Knight to Kentucky thread, he and HoopsMalone are trying to figure out how we can make the Big East less competitive, so poor little MU will have some hope of winning it some day.
I've seen some good stuff from HoopsMalone, but it kept occuring to me that goodgreatgrand..or whatever kept making questionable posts...after reviewing his post history..the common theme is that he thinks Syracuse is great (which they are and have been), but as an MU fan, I've never posted anything more about Syracuse than a few posts - less than 1%, whereas that dudes post mention CUSE about 60% of the time...talk about an Orange Crush!
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Next year... My bet is that we still play a seven and half man rotation. I would say that Smith, Jones, and Newbill ride the bench given Buzz's track record with freshmen. I wouldn't be shocked if Blue gets about 10 minutes a game.
If Vander only gets 10mpg, I would be willing to guess that the kid won't be around for a second season
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I'm not sure why you would say that. Maymon was clearly improving while playing. In fact, I thought the UW game was his best game defensively. They took Hayward off of Leuer...and Maymon did a damn good job.
I know we all want to trash the guy, but I find it hard to believe that on a team lacking size, that he wouldn't have found some pretty good minutes over the course of the BE season.
Just how I remembered it - I'm probably wrong. The biggest reason, looking up stats, is that I missed the UW game and didn't bother watching the DVR because of the outcome, so I missed his biggest night. The last four games before that I did see: 13 min vs Mich, 11 vs Fl State, DNP vs NC ST, and 13 vs UWM - didn't seem to be an uptrend with the DNP followed by a mere 13 mins in a blowout. That's the trend I was remembering. I thought he wouldn't be playing much in conference games, although any decent minutes would have helped.
Actually, looking at the way Fulce was used in conf. play, I still don't think JM would have played all that much the rest of the year.
And I wasn't really trying to trash JM; things tighten up when conference season comes and I was figuring him for less minutes as time went on.
And to the next poster - don't read too much into my use of the word "bailed". It was simply the first descriptive word that came to me to replace the word "transferred".
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Dude - You compliment virtually every Big East program except Marquette...and make these subtle snide remarks such as: as least with the quality of players Buzz has brought in so far. Go be a Louisville fan, or Syracuse fan - most of your posts ride the jock of everything Syracuse does..and now you mention Lville above? Please..Buzz just beat down Pitinos ass this year. Jim Boeheim has been at Cuse what, 35 years?? Buzz is in year 2, going on 3...and has landed JUCO player of the year, 1st team all american jucos, 6 Top 100 kids....what more do you want from the dude..if you realy are a Marquette fan...which most evidence points toward you not being. Speaking of which, what dorm are the MUY basketball players housed in? I'd assume you know this from your time at MU, right?
I'm just curious--do you ever look at the league standings chart?
<<---Its at the top of the left column--right over there, just scroll up.
Do you notice which school is listed first? It may surprise you, but Syracuse finished in 1st place.
Imagine someone talking about what it takes to win the Big East and mentioning the first place team a lot. And then he makes the factually based observation that Syracuse a) returns more experienced talent that we do and b) have recruited better (per ESPN they are 4th and we're 16th).
And then he adds that he hopes that the best uncommitted player in the country doesn't choose to attend Syracuse because they'll be more difficult to beat.
That's not an anti-Buzz or anti-Marquette statement--its an obvious statement of fact.
On paper, there probably won't be a single person that predicts MU to finish ahead of Syracuse. So from day one we have an uphill climb.
Its certainly not anti-Marquette to hope that our climb doesn't get any steeper, or that Syracuse doesn't pull away from us altogether by signing an NBA-ready player in the spring.
This twerp is really getting me p*ssed off too! Over on the Knight to Kentucky thread, he and HoopsMalone are trying to figure out how we can make the Big East less competitive, so poor little MU will have some hope of winning it some day.
I hope you weren't one of those who was worried over the possibility of a 8/9 seed in the tournament. Based on your statement, you undoubtedly think a Sweet 16 appearance where we skirted the #1 team in that first weekend is somehow tainted because we played easier opponents.
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On paper, there probably won't be a single person that predicts MU to finish ahead of Syracuse. So from day one we have an uphill climb.
Standings aren't determined by predictions. We don't have an uphill climb because we are predicted to finish lower.
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I hope you weren't one of those who was worried over the possibility of a 8/9 seed in the tournament. Based on your statement, you undoubtedly think a Sweet 16 appearance where we skirted the #1 team in that first weekend is somehow tainted because we played easier opponents.
I wasn't one of those who was worried over the possibility of a 8/9 seed. If the breaks go our way by luck (or by NCAA subterfuge ala Duke), I'm fine. It's the hand wringing over how MU will never be good enough to win the Big East unless other teams in the conference don't get top recruits that bothers me. Boeheim has been at Syracuse for what -- 35 years --, and he has a history of successful recruiting, so that's not likely to change soon. When MU beats Syracuse its share of the time, its not (I hope!) gonna be because Syracuse suddenly can't get the recruits, it'll be because MU will have recruited a team that with Buzz's coaching can beat them. Which will only happen because those type of recruits want to play and beat the best which means they want MU to be in a conference with 800 pound gorillas like Syracuse, Villanova and (until recently) Connecticut.
On the Syracuse board, where the fans expect a winning team, they are not wringing their hands over whether MU gets Luke Cothron or not. If we do, they'll be excited to know that their next four years (or however long Cothron stays) worth of games with MU will be much more exciting before they win (as they'll assume they will).
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This twerp is really getting me p*ssed off too! Over on the Knight to Kentucky thread, he and HoopsMalone are trying to figure out how we can make the Big East less competitive, so poor little MU will have some hope of winning it some day.
I appreciate the view that making the Big East as talented as possible is more fun or is ultimately better for MU. I just think it is talented enough already. I don't think it is cowardly (we are fans, not players...) to be happy a top recruit chose to join Kentucky rather than add to an already stacked team. I am fine with the Big East and ACC being a toss up for the best conference. I just don't think it is wrong to be happy about other teams loading up.
I am actually happy Knight did not sign with Cuse so we have a better chance of beating them. It's not like they are going to be a walk in the park. They are still way better than we are right now. If Kobe was rumored to be traded to Cleveland, I would be happy if he did not get traded there too. It's not non-competitive, it's realistic. The Big East is going to be tough no matter what.
We have really struggled with Syracuse and the way they are coached and the talent they have means that we are going to be competing with them for the top spot. We have some great talent coming in and a great coach, so I do want the best chance of winning a top conference.
I think focusing on beating them when recruiting is a good thing. That is why I think Colthron would be a nice pick up to put at the free throw line of the 2-3, among many other reasons (politics of pushing players out aside).
I think our return to great shooting with DJO, Acker, Cubillan, and Lazar this year made the road game winnable for us this year. The Three Amigo era was a tough matchup for us with Syracuse because of their size and MU's streaking shooting at times, with the only real close game coming when DJ was hurt and Flynn and McNeal had a shootout ultimately won by Flynn. I think the Diener/Novak era team would have been a better matchup. Hopefully we can get them at the BC this year and take of business.
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I appreciate the view that making the Big East as talented as possible is more fun or is ultimately better for MU. I just think it is talented enough already. I don't think it is cowardly (we are fans, not players...) to be happy a top recruit chose to join Kentucky rather than add to an already stacked team. I am fine with the Big East and ACC being a toss up for the best conference. I just don't think it is wrong to be happy about other teams loading up.
I am actually happy Knight did not sign with Cuse so we have a better chance of beating them. It's not like they are going to be a walk in the park. They are still way better than we are right now. If Kobe was rumored to be traded to Cleveland, I would be happy if he did not get traded there too. It's not non-competitive, it's realistic. The Big East is going to be tough no matter what.
We have really struggled with Syracuse and the way they are coached and the talent they have means that we are going to be competing with them for the top spot. We have some great talent coming in and a great coach, so I do want the best chance of winning a top conference.
I think focusing on beating them when recruiting is a good thing. That is why I think Colthron would be a nice pick up to put at the free throw line of the 2-3, among many other reasons (politics of pushing players out aside).
I think our return to great shooting with DJO, Acker, Cubillan, and Lazar this year made the road game winnable for us this year. The Three Amigo era was a tough matchup for us with Syracuse because of their size and MU's streaking shooting at times, with the only real close game coming when DJ was hurt and Flynn and McNeal had a shootout ultimately won by Flynn. I think the Diener/Novak era team would have been a better matchup. Hopefully we can get them at the BC this year and take of business.
Alrighty then, let's orange crush these dudes at the Bradley!
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I wasn't one of those who was worried over the possibility of a 8/9 seed. If the breaks go our way by luck (or by NCAA subterfuge ala Duke), I'm fine. It's the hand wringing over how MU will never be good enough to win the Big East unless other teams in the conference don't get top recruits that bothers me. Boeheim has been at Syracuse for what -- 35 years --, and he has a history of successful recruiting, so that's not likely to change soon. When MU beats Syracuse its share of the time, its not (I hope!) gonna be because Syracuse suddenly can't get the recruits, it'll be because MU will have recruited a team that with Buzz's coaching can beat them. Which will only happen because those type of recruits want to play and beat the best which means they want MU to be in a conference with 800 pound gorillas like Syracuse, Villanova and (until recently) Connecticut.
On the Syracuse board, where the fans expect a winning team, they are not wringing their hands over whether MU gets Luke Cothron or not. If we do, they'll be excited to know that their next four years (or however long Cothron stays) worth of games with MU will be much more exciting before they win (as they'll assume they will).
I think you're glossing over the fact that the most important factor of success is recruiting.
Syracuse isn't good because Jim Boeheim has fine tuned his coaching skills over 35 years--they're good because he learned early on he had to land outstanding talent. What did he do his first season? He recruits Louis Orr and makes it to the NCAA tournament.
Mike Deane thought he could get by with sub-par recruiting but better than average coaching. He couldn't, as he proved at Lamar and Wagner. Did well with O'neill's recruits, but little success since. And even a lousy coach like Pat Kennedy can get by on talent--he brought DePaul back from 3-23 the year before he arrived, to the NCAA tournament in three seasons--entirely based on the quality of the talent he recruited. When the talent stream dried up, so did PKs success.
Yes, there are examples of teams that do well and fly under the radar because of some unheralded recruit does well--MU with Wade, Butler last year, George Mason a few years back, perhaps even Syracuse this year with Wes Johnson.
But those are the exceptions--not the rule.
In all likelihood, we aren't going to consistently surpass Syracuse (or Pitt, UL, UConn, or VU) until we consistently recruit better players than they do. If they land the #3 player in the country, its going to be a lot tougher --if not impossible--for us to catch them unless we land a top 10 player of our own. Since we don't have one this year, I hope Syracuse doesn't land one either.
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I actually kind of wonder if there might be a defensive specialist or two in next year's rotation. Might EWill work his way into that? Could Fulce?
The best thing about next year is that practice will be a full 5 on 5; with very good players for both the Blue and Gold team. That's how Buzz will get them all better. Bright future I say.