I got into an argument with a friend over what the meaning of a "Mid-Major" is. I think that a Mid-Major is any team that does not play in one of the six power conferences (Big 10, ACC, Big East, SEC, Pac-10, and Big 12). But, one could argue that Memphis, who plays in Conference USA, was not a Mid Major because they got some of the best recruits in the country and were ranked in the top 10 for the past few years. I know there is no "real definition" of a Mid Major, but I was wondering what people think.
A team that doesn't consistently get top recruits and is not in a power conference, although some exceptions like u mentioned
is Xavier a Mid-Major? They don't get top talent but they have had tremendous tournament success in the past decade.
Non-BCS schools that I don't consider Mid-Major:
Certains- Xavier, Gonzaga, Memphis
Probably not mid-major (could argue either way)- St. Joes, Butler, Dayton, Temple, UNLV, Utah, BYU
I guess the definition is more by omission, just not these schools. It is a tough definition to put together besides through examples.
Any school not named Marquette.
Can a school in a BCS conference be considered a mid-major?
Is DePaul a mid-major? Northwestern?
I don't think schools are classified as mid-majors. Conferences are.
IMO, any conference that is non-BCS, but generally above the one-bid leagues, is a mid-major. CUSA, Missouri Valley, Atlantic 10 are mid-major conferences. The Horizon and WCC are borderline...they have gotten multiple bids a number of times but generally do not. The bulk of the rest of the conferences are not.
I guess it's subjective. My personal definition wavers probably daily, but pretty much is...
-Nobody in the six power conferences is a mid-major.
-The A10 as a conference isn't a mid-major; however, five or six schools in it are mid-major schools. The Mountain West is pretty much the same way with two or three schools that are mid-major.
-Memphis and Gonzaga aren't mid-major schools, unless you're using the label to make fun of Memphis, but they play in mid-major conferences.
If a definition was ever applied it would probably throw off much of the above, but it would probably be something along the lines of "A team that can finish with a conference winning percentage greater than X percent and still not have a chance of making the 65 team NCAA Tournament". Pretty much nails it, where a team that finishes 10-8 in the Big East is close to an NCAA lock, where a team that finishes 12-6 in the Colonial had better win its conference tournament.
QuoteI don't think schools are classified as mid-majors. Conferences are.
IMO, any conference that is non-BCS, but generally above the one-bid leagues, is a mid-major. CUSA, Missouri Valley, Atlantic 10 are mid-major conferences. The Horizon and WCC are borderline...they have gotten multiple bids a number of times but generally do not. The bulk of the rest of the conferences are not.
+1
MO = SoSWO ;D
I classify a mid-major program on the fly. If I'm talking to a jerk fan of any team and I want to start razzing him I promptly term his favorite program a mid-major and spend the next few minutes trying to convince him/her of that fact. It usually isn't true, but it's a very effective tool to get someone pretty riled up :)
I think ESPN said that butler was the first mid-major in the championship in the modern era. So they don't count memphis.
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 05, 2010, 02:06:32 PM
I think ESPN said that butler was the first mid-major in the championship in the modern era. So they don't count memphis.
Well sh*t...if ESPN said it, it must be gospel.
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 05, 2010, 02:06:32 PM
I think ESPN said that butler was the first mid-major in the championship in the modern era. So they don't count memphis.
They don't count Memphis because it never happened.
Major programs are consistantly on McDonadls all-american recruits lists and receive seeds in the NCAA consistantly in the 1-4 range. There is elite (top major) good programs who are pretenders (mid-major) programs in major conferences who generally do not go to tournaments (low major) and the rest are non-major. MU is a mid-major program, they are not on a par with North Carolina, Kansas, etc.
This whole Mid Major thing has gotten out of hand. Was CUSA a Mid Major conf before we left?
Was UNLV a Mid Major in the early 90's?
Was Louisville a Mid Major in 1980 & 1986?
Were Florida State and West Va Mid Majors before they joined the ACC & Big East?
I hate tying it to the 6 BCS conferences. It's like ever since the BCS was formed in FOOTBALL, all of a sudden the A-10, Mountain West and others have just fallen off the face of the earth.
A good legit question. Memphis is definitely not mid-major.
Low majors are schools that have no chance to get an NCAA bid unless they win their league.
No program in a major conference is a low major.
To suggest that all programs who don't recruit MCD all americans on a regular basis are low or mid major is ridiculous . You are confusing Elite with Major.
The difference between high major and mid major has more to do with money then anything else.
Mid majors can't afford to pay big time money to coaches or have state of the art facilities.
MU is not a mid major by any standard. Great facilities, top 15 in attendance, major conference, and invests big money in its basketball program.
QuoteThis whole Mid Major thing has gotten out of hand. Was CUSA a Mid Major conf before we left?
Was UNLV a Mid Major in the early 90's?
Was Louisville a Mid Major in 1980 & 1986?
Were Florida State and West Va Mid Majors before they joined the ACC & Big East?
I hate tying it to the 6 BCS conferences. It's like ever since the BCS was formed in FOOTBALL, all of a sudden the A-10, Mountain West and others have just fallen off the face of the earth.
This is precisely the point of a label like mid major. With the realignment you reference, and the ensuing creation of the BCS, the system cemented six conferences as the richest and most well connected in the country. Those conferences make far and away more money, and therefore routinely field the best teams in all major sports. In regards to basketball, that income and attention has led to those conferences representing the only surefire bets for multiple tournament bids every season. While there are still other schools that do quite well despite their small conference affiliations, they do so against the odds. It is to this recognition of the uphill battle that I think the term 'mid major' refers. The only reason that coaches and the schools themselves don't like being labelled as a mid major is precisely because it highlights that uphill climb, and will therefore make recruits think twice about attending.
I think UW is a mid major and they have been more successful than MU over the last several years. The fact is that neither one is a significant threat to win a national championship. Their fans can argue all they want about how good they are, but the teams are just pretenders when it comes to the NCAA tournament and that is what counts. I find the argument that any team in a power conference is a major program to be laughable. Northwestern has never played in an NCAA tournament. There is no way they are a major program. During the Al McGuire years MU was a major program when they were consistantly ranked in the top 10 and considered to be a contender for the national title. Now they are just a very good program. Now if Buzz keeps bringing in talent we can rise to the level of a major program who consistantly contends for the Big East championship and achieves big runs in the NCAA tournament. The other way to know if you are a major program is what cailber of coach wants to take you job when the job is open. MU has been more of a stepping stone program for coaches to leave for other jobs.
Ask Chicos... He says Butler isn't a mid-major, they are just in a mid major conference. He seems to have the definition down
I'll admit i dont claim to know, but what I do know is that it is one of those catch phrases that people latch onto (sort of like Cinderella, bubble team, etc)
If you were to ask me I would say every team that is not in a power conference other than Memphis, Gonzaga, and maybe Xavier. I guess if you are good year in and out you take yourself off of the mid-major list, I dont think Butler, UNLV, Temple, Dayton, etc are there yet
A major college has a simple, ubiquitous, nationally recognized logo. Mid-Majors aren't a commonly recognized brand, and the school is often spelled out in the logo.
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/drblue55/majors.gif) (http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/drblue55/midmajorcollage.gif)
By this definition DePaul is a mid-major. However above it was concluded that schools in a BCS conference cannot be mid-majors.
I'm so confused!
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 06, 2010, 05:49:51 AM
By this definition DePaul is a mid-major. However above it was concluded that schools in a BCS conference cannot be mid-majors.
I'm so confused!
That's right. As are Pitt, Ohio State, and Purdue. (I guess there are a few holes in the theory still.)
If St. Joe's made the final four the year they were a 1 seed would they have been considered a mid major?
I think it all depends on the conference you play in, the schools in the top 6 conferences are all major programs, while the teams in the other conferences like the A-10, WCC, Mountain West, Conference USA, and Horizon League are all mid majors with the exceptions of Memphis and Gonzaga.