Butler was only the second mid-major to make the final four (George Mason in 2006) and the first to make the final game in the modern era (since the field went to 64 in 1985).
If they win on Monday, does this change anything?
Does it accelerate the move to expand the tourney to 96?
If the BCS Football schools want to split with the NCAA does a possible Butler win "complicate" their efforts to start their own BCS basketball championship?
What a great story..... I am so impressed by that team.... They out grinded one of the ultimate grind out teams.....
Job well done Butler..... :)
By the way... Butler although a mid major school... they have "NBA" type talent.... they are no joke... and they will all be back next season. :o
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 03, 2010, 07:39:01 PM
Butler was only the second mid-major to make the final four (George Mason in 2006) and the first to make the final game in the modern era (since the field went to 64 in 1985).
If they win on Monday, does this change anything?
Does it accelerate the move to expand the tourney to 96?
If the BCS Football schools want to split with the NCAA does a possible Butler win "complicate" their efforts to start their own BCS basketball championship?
What's a mid-major? Many would argue that Marquette went to the Final Four as a mid-major. CUSA certainly wasn't one of the big 6 conferences.
Quote from: TJ on April 03, 2010, 07:45:13 PM
What's a mid-major? Many would argue that Marquette went to the Final Four as a mid-major. CUSA certainly wasn't one of the big 6 conferences.
I think the whole mid major things keeps originating from the "Big conference schools"... that simply do now want to allow smaller conferences and schools an even playing ground...
But parity has set in.... and I like it.... :)
I was rooting for Butler the whole way, but its tough because I whole heartedly think we would be them by a solid 10-15 with the way we match up.
Quote from: TJ on April 03, 2010, 07:45:13 PM
What's a mid-major? Many would argue that Marquette went to the Final Four as a mid-major. CUSA certainly wasn't one of the big 6 conferences.
The term did not exist in the 1970s. It is a recent term to mean a school
not in the BCS power six conferences (BE, BT, ACC, SEC, B12, P10)
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on April 03, 2010, 07:52:37 PM
I was rooting for Butler the whole way, but its tough because I whole heartedly think we would be them by a solid 10-15 with the way we match up.
?-(.. are you serious
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 03, 2010, 07:55:08 PM
The term did not exist in the 1970s. It is a recent term to mean a school not in the BCS power six conferences (BE, BT, ACC, SEC, B12, P10)
I think he was referring to the 2003 season. We were still in the C-USA that year.
Yeah Crimson I watched Butler all eyar they are my 3rd favorite team behind the gophers and MU obviously. I watched the gophers play them early on. MU would be a perfect match up because both teams are small teams but Jimmy would abuse Matt Howard with fouls and Hayward on Hayward would be great. Mack is great and would get his but DJO, Cubby and Acker would be too much from deep. Butler wins because other teams turn it over and shoot from 3 poor......thos are our strengths.
Wasn't UNLV from a mid-major conference when they dominated in the 80's and 90's under the Shark?
As others have mentioned, Butler has recruited very well and definitely has NBA type talent. Just compare Marquette's roster this year versus Butler's.
Quote from: bringbackwarriors on April 03, 2010, 07:58:16 PM
I think he was referring to the 2003 season. We were still in the C-USA that year.
Good point, then we would have to include Cincy and Memphis in the list of mid-majors and Butler is the second mid-major to make the final behind Memphis two years ago.
Is C-USA a mid-major? (Their is no accepted definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major )
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on April 03, 2010, 08:00:38 PM
Yeah Crimson I watched Butler all eyar they are my 3rd favorite team behind the gophers and MU obviously. I watched the gophers play them early on. MU would be a perfect match up because both teams are small teams but Jimmy would abuse Matt Howard with fouls and Hayward on Hayward would be great. Mack is great and would get his but DJO, Cubby and Acker would be too much from deep. Butler wins because other teams turn it over and shoot from 3 poor......thos are our strengths.
Lazar wouldn't be able to guard Gordon Hayward...too slow. You would have to put Jimmy on Gordon Hayward.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on April 03, 2010, 07:52:37 PM
I was rooting for Butler the whole way, but its tough because I whole heartedly think we would be them by a solid 10-15 with the way we match up.
Cmon, its not a problem to love your team, but this seems a little silly. They are in the Championship game for a reason. They just beat Cuse, and K-State, and are playing really good ball right now.
and we only beat what, one team by more than 10 (not counting cupcakes...)
It is pretty cool that a team like butler got into the national championship.
Unfortunately it pretty much caps off a year in which there was unprecedented mediocrity in NCAAB. The fact that Mich St. was even in the final four is still puzzling to me. As exciting as it is, I feel as if whoever wins the duke wv game will crap on butler. Just my opinion.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on April 03, 2010, 08:00:38 PM
Yeah Crimson I watched Butler all eyar they are my 3rd favorite team behind the gophers and MU obviously. I watched the gophers play them early on. MU would be a perfect match up because both teams are small teams but Jimmy would abuse Matt Howard with fouls and Hayward on Hayward would be great. Mack is great and would get his but DJO, Cubby and Acker would be too much from deep. Butler wins because other teams turn it over and shoot from 3 poor......thos are our strengths.
Do you know how silly that statement reads? Maybe there is a "reason" Butler's opponents have shot and handled the ball poorly. Perhaps..... maybe DEFENSE...... they have not allowed an opponent to score over 60 all tourney... guess it is a fluke... :o
Butler plays championship caliber D....Just ask.. UTEP, Murray St, Syracuse, Kansas St, and Michigan St.... :)
Quote from: ZaLiN on April 03, 2010, 08:11:49 PM
It is pretty cool that a team like butler got into the national championship.
Unfortunately it pretty much caps off a year in which there was unprecedented mediocrity in NCAAB. The fact that Mich St. was even in the final four is still puzzling to me. As exciting as it is, I feel as if whoever wins the duke wv game will crap on butler. Just my opinion.
I tend to agree at this point, but Butler can play defense. I hope Butler didn't just blow their load on this game. If they don't have Mack for the game and shoot even close to what they did tonight (31%), either Duke or WVA will really beat up on them. I hope not, it would be quite a story if they could pull this thing off.
Good call Crimson except for the fact that we simply didnt turn it over against any type of d. I watch every single game Butler has played this year with the exception of a couple Horizon games in the regular season because they clearly over matched everyone. I do agree that Butler would have to guard Gordon though. Nored strives off locking down on that big forward/wing play and frusterating him. We dont have the kind of player for him to be after. We will never know but i am very confident we would have beat them.
Quote from: nyg on April 03, 2010, 08:18:22 PM
I tend to agree at this point, but Butler can play defense. I hope Butler didn't just blow their load on this game. If they don't have Mack for the game and shoot even close to what they did tonight (31%), either Duke or WVA will really beat up on them. I hope not, it would be quite a story if they could pull this thing off.
I mean, there is really not much certainty in college basketball, that is for sure. We must keep in mind as welll that this is essentially a home court advantage for butler, as far as hometown crowds are concerned. Im not saying butler will for sure lose, but when it comes down to it, two legitimate top 5 teams are contending for a spot to play them, and you can sure as hell bet they aren't warm to the idea of losing to a team from the horizon league.
I do know one thing.... both MU and BU would both ... ROCK IU's azz into next year.... :(
Quote from: ZaLiN on April 03, 2010, 08:23:39 PM
I mean, there is really not much certainty in college basketball, that is for sure. We must keep in mind as welll that this is essentially a home court advantage for butler, as far as hometown crowds are concerned. Im not saying butler will for sure lose, but when it comes down to it, two legitimate top 5 teams are contending for a spot to play them, and you can sure as hell bet they aren't warm to the idea of losing to a team from the horizon league.
ESPN pre season rankings.... WV 8, Duke 9, and Butler 11... This run is not unexpected by people who "know" BB....
Hayward and Mack both played on the 19 and under world championship team this last summer in New Zealand.
they are solid and I like wathing them at this point much more than the TO machine IU currently is... ;)
Quote from: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 08:25:10 PM
I do know one thing.... both MU and BU would both ... ROCK IU's azz into next year.... :(
Amen to this. I think Haywards Heros makes a decent point that MU would have matched up well with Butler. Very true statement, though I do not see MU beating Butler by 10-15 - but could see it having been a very closely contested basketball game - with the edge going to Butler slightly, due to them being a better defensive team. They play great team D, and that would be the decisive factor in their favor.
Quote from: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 08:32:03 PM
ESPN pre season rankings.... WV 8, Duke 9, and Butler 11... This run is not unexpected by people who "know" BB....
Hayward and Mack both played on the 19 and under world championship team this last summer in New Zealand.
they are solid and I like wathing them at this point much more than the TO machine IU currently is... ;)
I'm basing it on end of season seeding, which butler got screwed on, I will admit.
Preseason means jack. COUGH COUGH texas COUGH
cough cough, Carolina, cough
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on April 03, 2010, 08:18:44 PM
Good call Crimson except for the fact that we simply didnt turn it over against any type of d. I watch every single game Butler has played this year with the exception of a couple Horizon games in the regular season because they clearly over matched everyone. I do agree that Butler would have to guard Gordon though. Nored strives off locking down on that big forward/wing play and frusterating him. We dont have the kind of player for him to be after. We will never know but i am very confident we would have beat them.
After watching our game against Washington, I am fairly confident that we wouldn't beat them. Seriously, we do not play defense nearly as good as Butler does. And I saw about half of Butler's games this year...a number of them in person.
Quote from: Norm on April 03, 2010, 08:02:29 PM
Wasn't UNLV from a mid-major conference when they dominated in the 80's and 90's under the Shark?
As others have mentioned, Butler has recruited very well and definitely has NBA type talent. Just compare Marquette's roster this year versus Butler's.
I'm thinking they were an independent.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 03, 2010, 07:39:01 PM
Butler was only the second mid-major to make the final four (George Mason in 2006) and the first to make the final game in the modern era (since the field went to 64 in 1985).
If they win on Monday, does this change anything?
Does it accelerate the move to expand the tourney to 96?
If the BCS Football schools want to split with the NCAA does a possible Butler win "complicate" their efforts to start their own BCS basketball championship?
Supporters of the expansion might use Butler as an example of why to expand, as it MIGHT allow more mid-majors in (or just more BCS teams). But the smaller schools not seeded in the top 32 will have to play more games and likely be more worn down before playing teams like Syracuse, Kansas, Duke, etc and their chances to go far in the tournament will be decreased. I, for one, do not want expansion and think it's a terrible, terrible idea.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 03, 2010, 09:25:53 PM
I'm thinking they were an independent.
Nope. They were a member of the Big West. They left the Big West to join the WAC...and then split when the Mountain West was formed.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 03, 2010, 09:34:47 PM
Nope. They were a member of the Big West. They left the Big West to join the WAC...and then split when the Mountain West was formed.
In 1977, UNLV played as an independent and reached the Final Four along with MU, UNC, and UNCC. In 1987, UNLV was a member of the Big West Conference as a FF participant.
UNLV has to be considered the "original" little guy... JMO
Dick Vitale noted tonight that the last non-BCS conference team to win the title was UNLV. He did also question whether they could be considered a mid-major though...
UMass also made the final four out of the A10 in the mid 90's (96 I think). Although that was later vacated.
Did Louisville make it when they were still in C-USA or were they in the BE by then?
The only thing it changes is the temperature of Tom Crean's coaching seat. ;)
98 Utah, lost to Kentucky.
And no Memphis doesn't count.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 03, 2010, 10:16:30 PM
In 1977, UNLV played as an independent and reached the Final Four along with MU, UNC, and UNCC. In 1987, UNLV was a member of the Big West Conference as a FF participant.
Well, in all fairness, you said "80s and 90s."
They play in a mid major conference but they are not a midmajor team
QuoteThey play in a mid major conference but they are not a midmajor team
Would you have said that in November?
Quote from: jimmyrizzle on April 04, 2010, 01:42:19 PM
Would you have said that in November?
I think he would have as Butler has had excellent NCAA success in recent years and was a Top 10-12 team pre-season. They are much like Gonzaga. Very good/talented team playin in a mid-major conference. Remeber Butler swept its Horizon league regular season schedule and won the conference tourney.
QuoteI think he would have as Butler has had excellent NCAA success in recent years and was a Top 10-12 team pre-season. They are much like Gonzaga. Very good/talented team playin in a mid-major conference. Remeber Butler swept its Horizon league regular season schedule and won the conference tourney.
Fair enough.
Still: Barry Collier needs to get them out the H League at some point.
Quote from: Skitch on April 04, 2010, 01:35:45 AM
Did Louisville make it when they were still in C-USA or were they in the BE by then?
I believe Louisville made the Final Four in the last season we were in C-USA.
Quote from: jimmyrizzle on April 04, 2010, 02:07:24 PM
Fair enough.
Still: Barry Collier needs to get them out the H League at some point.
Maybe the Missouri Valley, but otherwise they are a nice fit in the Horizon.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on April 04, 2010, 01:40:16 AM
The only thing it changes is the temperature of Tom Crean's coaching seat. ;)
Tanned Tommy's arse crack has to be white hot with the success of Butler. Throw in Brad Stevens' sterling character, his quiet dignity, focus upon team rather than self, IU heritage, authentic Indiana roots, decency, honesty, and compassion and you have a compelling case for a coaching change at I x 4. One has to wonder how Tommy is sleeping these days. Not even Mike Maddux, Mike McCarthy, Tony LaRussa, or a whole passel of Harbaughs can save his butt this time. I hope he hears about Brad Stevens getting the IU job from the ESPN scroll.
Quote from: jimmyrizzle on April 04, 2010, 01:42:19 PM
Would you have said that in November?
Considering they were ranked in the top 10 in the pre-season in one poll and 11th in the other....yes, I would have said that. Gonzaga is no different, they play in a mid-major conference but they are not mid-major.
Conversely, there are some teams that play in a high major league but play like mid majors (Northwestern has been that way for most of their existence, though not of late).
Don't be fooled by the league someone plays in. Was UNLV mid-major when they were dominating the country despite playing in the Big West conference? Of course not.
Aloha