MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: DavantesInferno on April 03, 2010, 07:27:08 PM

Title: Should Butler foul?
Post by: DavantesInferno on April 03, 2010, 07:27:08 PM
5.5 seconds left.  Butler up by 3.  What does Stevens tell them to do?
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: SacWarrior on April 03, 2010, 07:28:58 PM
they did
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: nyg on April 03, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
Quote from: SacWarrior on April 03, 2010, 07:28:58 PM
they did

And it worked.

Wow, Butler doesn't score a field goal for almost 10 minutes and still wins. 
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: Norm on April 03, 2010, 07:32:47 PM
Worked out for Butler this game. Can't believe a Horizon team is in the final game. That is pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 07:38:47 PM
Quote from: nyg on April 03, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
And it worked.

Wow, Butler doesn't score a field goal for almost 10 minutes and still wins. 
Congrats to the winners, but, wow, like watching paint dry.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 07:46:45 PM
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 07:38:47 PM
Congrats to the winners, but, wow, like watching paint dry.

I disagree...  this was grind it out, hard nosed D basketball at it's best......   The kind of ball I like...   Great game...   

And this style of ball does win games, you just need "NBA" types to take it all the way... and MSU (in the past) and Butler right now do..

What Butler has done is nothing short of AMAZING... 

And all the while Butler did not have it's second best player in the second half....  simply awesome. ;D
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on April 03, 2010, 07:49:51 PM
I am so happy Butler won. Lets get a WVU win now too.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 07:52:05 PM
Quote from: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 07:46:45 PM
I disagree...  this was grind it out, hard nosed D basketball at it's best......   The kind of ball I like...   Great game...   

And this style of ball does win games, you just need "NBA" types to take it all the way... and MSU (in the past) and Butler right now do..

What Butler has done is nothing short of AMAZING... 

And all the while Butler did not have it's second best player in the second half....  simply awesome. ;D  5 and 10 minute scoring droughts do grind it out make.  it was a brutal exhibition of poor offense ala the Badgers style of play. Congrats to the winners, but not very attractive BB.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 07:59:24 PM
I'm sorry, but I've watched 4 of the 5 Butler tourney games thus far, and they are pretty atrocious offensively.  I think it speaks somewhat to the weakness of the field this year that Butler hasn't faced a team able to score enough against them to beat them.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: DavantesInferno on April 03, 2010, 08:03:52 PM
I almost wonder what would have happened if they had called the foul at half-court when the MSU player went up for the shot.  It looked like a good no-call but I wouldn't have been surprised if the refs called it.  Not sure who the MSU player was but i would have been interesting to see what MSU would have done with the extra free throw.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 08:05:55 PM
Yeah, that's another thing, the FT disparity was unfortunate and strongly favored Butler.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: TJ on April 03, 2010, 08:19:21 PM
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 07:38:47 PM
Congrats to the winners, but, wow, like watching paint dry.
I thought it was a really exciting game, especially considering the offensive output of each team.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: NersEllenson on April 03, 2010, 08:29:35 PM
Quote from: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 07:59:24 PM
I'm sorry, but I've watched 4 of the 5 Butler tourney games thus far, and they are pretty atrocious offensively.  I think it speaks somewhat to the weakness of the field this year that Butler hasn't faced a team able to score enough against them to beat them.

Actually I find Butler's offense fun to watch - in many ways they remind me of this years MU team.  I felt they share the ball well, make the extra pass, played hard - much the way our team did this year - thoug Butler doesn't shoot the 3 quite as well as we do. I do feel you might be underestimating the caliber of Butler's defense as I don't think its so much an issue of the teams Butler has faced in the tourney not being able to score the ball well - as much is it has to do with Butler playing great team defense.  They held Syracuse to what 49 points?  Enough said!!
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 08:31:59 PM
Quote from: Ners on April 03, 2010, 08:29:35 PM
Actually I find Butler's offense fun to watch - in many ways they remind me of this years MU team.  I felt they share the ball well, make the extra pass, played hard - much the way our team did this year - thoug Butler doesn't shoot the 3 quite as well as we do. I do feel you might be underestimating the caliber of Butler's defense as I don't think its so much an issue of the teams Butler has faced in the tourney not being able to score the ball well - as much is it has to do with Butler playing great team defense.  They held Syracuse to what 49 points?  Enough said!!

I'll say it again, an offense with 5 and 10 minute droughts?  Yeccchh.  MSU was equally incapable but outbumbled BU.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 08:34:28 PM
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 08:05:55 PM
Yeah, that's another thing, the FT disparity was unfortunate and strongly favored Butler.

But...  Butler was the aggressor more consistently...   they looked to drive every possession where MSU settles for jump shot far to often.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 08:41:28 PM
Quote from: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 07:59:24 PM
I'm sorry, but I've watched 4 of the 5 Butler tourney games thus far, and they are pretty atrocious offensively.  I think it speaks somewhat to the weakness of the field this year that Butler hasn't faced a team able to score enough against them to beat them.

sigh.....   Butler has beaten the 7th Syracuse, and 11th K State highest scoring teams in the NCAA.....
http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/ncaa-m-baskbl-div1-team-scoring-offense.html

care to try again....   :)
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 08:45:52 PM
oh and Murray St was 31st...   :)
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 08:55:57 PM
I'm not sure how that responds to my argument.  I said teams this year are historically weaker than other years.  I'm saying no matter how good you are defensively, you could not have held UNC or Villanova of last year to under 60, or most likely MSU for that matter.

That they played higher rated offensive teams that were unable to score I think actually supports my point.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 08:41:28 PM
sigh.....   Butler has beaten the 7th Syracuse, and 11th K State highest scoring teams in the NCAA.....
http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/ncaa-m-baskbl-div1-team-scoring-offense.html

care to try again....   :)

Butler shot 31% for the game.  If that's not atrocious it's at least terribly boring.  Again, kinda' like B10 style of play.  You can win with it but it is not fun to watch.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 09:09:11 PM
Bill Walton was on Westwood One between games, and he even said it was bad basketball in the middle of his rant about how unbelievable and magnificent the Final Four was.  The rarely critical Bill Walton.

Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 09:12:44 PM
C'mon man...

the 2008 NY Giants were not nearly the best team in the NFL ... but they WON...  does that in any way diminish what they have accomplished?

Shouldn't each season be viewed on its own merit?
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 09:23:12 PM
Yes, it should.  I don't begrudge Butler anything.  That's not the argument you were making before.  I'm just saying that their FG% was 31%.  They have been consistently bad on one end of the floor for the entire tournament.  They don't have one guy who can beat their defender off the dribble most of the time.  In most seasons, a team could not be that bad on one end and go all the way because they would run into a team that could outscore them, maybe not for the whole game, but at least at the end of the game.

The thing that I find most amazing about Butler is that they score at the end of games.  They are so bad offensively.  Then at least against KSU and Cuse they got down at the end, and they scored.  Cuse and KSU didn't.  MSU was similar, except MSU never got the lead. 

I expected Butler not to be able to score, and Cuse or KSU to be able to pull away.  Yet this team that can't score scores, and they hold at off a better offensive team that should have more confident offensive players.  They deserve credit for what they've done, no doubt.  It's still winnin' ugly. 
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 09:46:03 PM
I live in central IN...   I am an IU grad and fan...  I "love" the way BU plays...  and they are not a "bad" offensive team at all.....   as a matter of fact they run O very well...   tonight against MSU they missed about 5 cupcakes...  ?  what can you do?

Plus put this in perspective...  Matt Howard played 4 min. in the first half....   he was the 2009 Horizan League player of the year..   And Shelvin Mack, BU's 2nd best player hardly played at all in the second half..   :o

Give credit where credit is due....   this is just the classic "underdog" story...   when in fact BU is no underdog at all......

I love it.....   It could only happen in the state of INDIANA..........   8-)
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 09:55:11 PM
No one has said they don't deserve credit and congratulations.  But, man, that was an unattractive display today by both teams.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 09:55:11 PM
No one has said they don't deserve credit and congratulations.  But, man, that was an unattractive display today by both teams.

would you rather watch IU?  hehe...   :)
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 10:01:29 PM
Quote from: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 09:57:53 PM
would you rather watch IU?  hehe...   :)

sure. I like Iona.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 10:08:09 PM
Quote from: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 09:46:03 PM
I live in central IN...   I am an IU grad and fan...  I "love" the way BU plays...  and they are not a "bad" offensive team at all.....   as a matter of fact they run O very well...   tonight against MSU they missed about 5 cupcakes...  ?  what can you do?


I get you like Butler.  They may be good in the Horizon league offensively, but they have not been good at all offensively throughout the tournament.  If you are a stats guy, just look at the stats--low shooting percentages, and I think they had about 20 turnovers against KSU.  I don't understand how you can call that offense anything but bad.  



Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 10:16:54 PM
Quote from: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 10:08:09 PM
I get you like Butler.  They may be good in the Horizon league offensively, but they have not been good at all offensively throughout the tournament.  If you are a stats guy, just look at the stats--low shooting percentages, and I think they had about 20 turnovers against KSU.  I don't understand how you can call that offense anything but bad.  




BU blew UTEP out, they had 4 turn overs against Cuse...  the Cuse had 18 against Butler..   KST game BU had 20 to's to BU's 13...  the difference in that game was BU outrebounding KST by 9......    c'mon now....    admit it..  they are good, and may just win the NATIONAL TITLE...   

Simply unreal.........   :)
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 03, 2010, 10:21:32 PM
Not only would Butler have kick our fannies, but I remember 3 weeks ago some posters were hoping for a 2nd game match-up with Duke if we were an 8/9 seed.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 10:27:51 PM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 03, 2010, 10:21:32 PM
Not only would Butler have kick our fannies, but I remember 3 weeks ago some posters were hoping for a 2nd game match-up with Duke if we were an 8/9 seed.

which our do you mean, MU or your UT Vols?
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 10:29:56 PM
Quote from: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 10:16:54 PM
BU blew UTEP out, they had 4 turn overs against Cuse...  the Cuse had 18 against Butler..   KST game BU had 20 to's to BU's 13...  the difference in that game was BU outrebounding KST by 9......    c'mon now....    admit it..  they are good, and may just win the NATIONAL TITLE...   

Simply unreal.........   :)

None of this addresses the 5 and 10 minute droughts and the 31% shooting.  Still think they are an offensive juggernaut?
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 10:32:21 PM
Beat me to it.  I don't understand how you can even argue that this is a mediocre offensive team.  They don't even have a guy who can force help on most possessions.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 10:35:26 PM
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 10:29:56 PM
None of this addresses the 5 and 10 minute droughts and the 31% shooting.  Still think they are an offensive juggernaut?

would U take those stats and the FF championship game appearance that comes along with it?    or rather play like Kansas and Syracuse did all season long and fizzzzzzzzzzz?   hmmm?  ;)

I mean seriously....   it is not a beauty contest...   they will play for the NATIONAL TITLE monday night....     isn't that the goal?
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 10:39:02 PM
Quote from: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 10:32:21 PM
Beat me to it.  I don't understand how you can even argue that this is a mediocre offensive team.  They don't even have a guy who can force help on most possessions.

why does Butler shoot more free throws than the opponent?  Because they go to the bucket....    and please people Gordan Hayward is a lottery pick, and Mack and Nored will play pro ball....   
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 03, 2010, 10:45:22 PM
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 03, 2010, 10:27:51 PM
which our do you mean, MU or your UT Vols?

Here, at least get it right. Don't give a rat's ass about the Vols. But, Bruce is my homeboy.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 10:58:38 PM
Quote from: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 10:39:02 PM
why does Butler shoot more free throws than the opponent?  Because they go to the bucket....    and please people Gordan Hayward is a lottery pick, and Mack and Nored will play pro ball....   


Congrats.  Do you think they'll beat Duke on Mon?  How?  I hope they do.  Good luck.


Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on April 03, 2010, 11:02:54 PM
Duke will overpower Butler like they did tonight. Probably worse licking
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 11:19:23 PM
Quote from: karavotsos on April 03, 2010, 10:58:38 PM
Congrats.  Do you think they'll beat Duke on Mon?  How?  I hope they do.  Good luck.




Well I honestly think Butler will win...   but Duke is known to .......   "get calls"................     that said....   the Luke will be filled with INDIANA BASKETBALL FANS.............    I hope "hoosier" nation comes out and rocks the house for the D'WGS.... :)

All things being equal....   Butler is the better team, they have the best player..  and they are the better D playing team.

But Duke is Duke.....     >:(
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 03, 2010, 11:20:34 PM
Damn right they should have fouled.   Maybe CanadianDimes can tell us how this never happens.  LOL....and Butler plays for the titles.


Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: Norm on April 03, 2010, 11:39:10 PM
Crimson,

Butler got their fair share of calls tonight - the free throw discrepancy was Duke like at one point (in favor of Butler). So I wouldn't be prematurely crying about Duke getting the calls on Monday....
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 03, 2010, 11:44:52 PM
Quote from: Norm on April 03, 2010, 11:39:10 PM
Crimson,

Butler got their fair share of calls tonight - the free throw discrepancy was Duke like at one point (in favor of Butler). So I wouldn't be prematurely crying about Duke getting the calls on Monday....

teams that "drive the ball" get calls.....  MSU is a jump shooting team....  I can't explain it any clearer...

Butler missed Howard for 15 min. of the first half..   then missed Mack for the vast majority of the second half..   spin it any way you want...  Butler is ........   "tough" and resilient....   

Face it ......   Butler is legit...   :)

Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: Norm on April 03, 2010, 11:56:08 PM
Not denying Butler is legit at all...they have 3 players that will likely play in the NBA (more than most NCAA teams this year)...they have payed awesome and the 25 game winning streak is no joke...just had to point out thought that a Butler fan talking about Duke getting calls after tonight's game sounds a little hollow...they must be rocking the Bulldog tonight!
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: CrimsonNCrean on April 04, 2010, 12:08:35 AM
Quote from: Norm on April 03, 2010, 11:56:08 PM
Not denying Butler is legit at all...they have 3 players that will likely play in the NBA (more than most NCAA teams this year)...they have payed awesome and the 25 game winning streak is no joke...just had to point out thought that a Butler fan talking about Duke getting calls after tonight's game sounds a little hollow...they must be rocking the Bulldog tonight!

Bro I am true "crimson and cream" blue.....  heeheee... 

Butler is just a great story, and I love to watch them... 

I wish I could change my name tho...    I am really souring on the "energizer bunny"  ....
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: ATWizJr on April 04, 2010, 05:51:08 AM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 03, 2010, 10:45:22 PM
Here, at least get it right. Don't give a rat's ass about the Vols. But, Bruce is my homeboy.

That's some trippy a** sh*t homes.   You dudes are so g in the 'Quon hoodz.
Title: Re: Should Butler foul?
Post by: GGGG on April 04, 2010, 06:44:30 AM
I really, really hope Butler wins Monday.  My son in school down there was at the Butler Fieldhouse and said it was absolutely nuts!  He didn't win the lottery for the tickets, but he's going to see what the "street values" are for Monday night.  I'd love to go down there, but I figure that's his thing.

Anyway, if Duke plays the way they did last night, Butler is going to struggle to keep it within 15.
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