http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/docs-office/2010/03/16/confidential-basketball-search-likely-if-based-on-past
The guy was looking to leave as soon as the halftime horn went off in New Orleans! He was, is and will always be a self-tanning scumbag!
I'm confused. did I4 contact iowa when they hired lickliter or now? or both?
Crean's may have only one more year to come competitive at IU. His great freshman class looks more average than great, other than maybe Creek, and his 2010 class is one of the worst in the Big Ten right now with only 2 player's commited who would be rated nationally at around Smith and DJ Newbill. The one thing Crean cannot have is Creek and Watford leave, they are not from the midwest and losing that much cannot be fun at this point.
QuoteIowa also had several coaches' representatives contact the school directly to heighten interest. Among those include Southern Illinois' Chris Lowery, current Wichita State Coach Gregg Marshall, current Indiana Coach Tom Crean and Northwestern (La.) State Coach Mike McConathy. Others recommended to Barta by fans or alumni include former New Mexico State and Sacramento Kings Coach Reggie Theus, current Kentucky Coach John Calipari, former UCLA Coach Steve Lavin and Clemson Coach Oliver Purnell. All of that information was provided by Iowa to The Gazette via the Freedom of Information Act.
Six days after Alford's resignation and five days before Lickliter was hired, Iowa had 35 candidates for the position. At least eight were African-American. Finalists were Lickliter and Vanderbilt's Kevin Stallings. Barta put together seven-year annual offers for Lickliter at $1.2 million and Stallings at $1.5 million. Lickliter accepted the position.
35 candidates? Two packages offered? That's unpossible!
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 23, 2010, 09:28:31 AM
I'm confused. did I4 contact iowa when they hired lickliter or now? or both?
Yeah, the article really didn't make that very clear. BTW, the paper publishing the names of the people who contacted them is why people use search firms and agents. I'm sure that neither those coaches, nor the school, is terribly excited about that.
The context of the article was discussing the 2007 search. Therefore after the 3 amigos sophomore seasons...Crean contacted Iowa expressing his interest in the job.
So he contacts Illinois, OSU, Iowa and Indiana ...think the guy wanted to go back to the Big Ten? Enjoy it while it lasts...I think after this stint another Midwest based conference will probably be his next stop. Most likely the MAC or Horizon.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on March 23, 2010, 09:48:23 AM
The context of the article was discussing the 2007 search. Therefore after the 3 amigos sophomore seasons...Crean contacted Iowa expressing his interest in the job.
I have no insight, not going to take a jab.
Just, wow.
How do you spin this?
Crean grew up with a Roy Marble poster on his wall.
He could have been driving up his own contract price and keeping his name out there for other jobs. If I remember correctly, he really wanted that job at Kentucky around then, so it helps him to be in the conversation at many schools.
I have a pretty good job but I continually look for other opportunities. I don't see what the issue is. If I can take a step up the ladder then I certainly will. Additionally, my company can let me go at any time so continually looking for new positions is to cover my ass.
I'm not saying that Crean leaving was the right way to leave... but I certainly can't judge the guy for keeping his options continually open when I do the same thing in my career.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 23, 2010, 10:30:30 AM
I have a pretty good job but I continually look for other opportunities. I don't see what the issue is. If I can take a step up the ladder then I certainly will. Additionally, my company can let me go at any time so continually looking for new positions is to cover my ass.
I'm not saying that Crean leaving was the right way to leave... but I certainly can't judge the guy for keeping his options continually open when I do the same thing in my career.
but do you continually float you name in, say trade magazines, hoping to get a raise from your current employer?
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 23, 2010, 10:30:30 AM
I have a pretty good job but I continually look for other opportunities. I don't see what the issue is. If I can take a step up the ladder then I certainly will. Additionally, my company can let me go at any time so continually looking for new positions is to cover my ass.
I'm not saying that Crean leaving was the right way to leave... but I certainly can't judge the guy for keeping his options continually open when I do the same thing in my career.
Tom Crean was the CEO of the Marquette basketball program for 9 years. He was already at the top of the ladder. Marquette's response to his pursuit of other opportunities and threats to leave (even though Illinois, Ohio State, Iowa, Kentucky and Kansas didn't want him) was to give him longer and more lucrative contracts. You may well have to "cover your ass". He didn't.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 23, 2010, 10:46:23 AM
but do you continually float you name in, say trade magazines, hoping to get a raise from your current employer?
Do you have six years left on your contract?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 23, 2010, 10:54:25 AM
Tom Crean was the CEO of the Marquette basketball program for 9 years. He was already at the top of the ladder. Marquette's response to his pursuit of other opportunities and threats to leave (even though Illinois, Ohio State, Iowa, Kentucky and Kansas didn't want him) was to give him longer and more lucrative contracts. You may well have to "cover your ass". He didn't.
If I thought I could parlay another company recruiting me into a raise, I would do it in a second.
I can't defend what Crean did, but I'd be a hypocrite if I blasted him for it.
Are you under contract making 1.5 million a year? And telling your employer that you are in it for the long haul and won't be leaving.... and then leave a voice mail message that you have accepted another position, and let your subordinates hear about it on the news (or in your case at the water cooler)?
Quote from: 2002MUalum on March 23, 2010, 11:11:10 AM
If I thought I could parlay another company recruiting me into a raise, I would do it in a second.
I can't defend what Crean did, but I'd be a hypocrite if I blasted him for it.
Did you recruit yourself to the company that would be recruiting you?
Quote from: Fullodds on March 23, 2010, 10:05:16 AM
Crean grew up with a Roy Marble poster on his wall.
Well played.
My understanding is Iowa contacted him....and he turned down the job.
Think about it. Iowa hired Lickliter for 1.2 mil a year. Crean made quite a bit more then that at MU and you guys think he pursued a job to take a substantial pay cut?
You don't have to like Crean to see this doesn't pass the smell test.
Did your company build a state of the art work space for you and your staff?
Did they continue to outfit you with the latest in office technology, pay for every trade service and lead book?
Did they fly you only in 1st class and put you up in W hotels?
Did they let you eat at Ruth's Chris on every trip and never glance at the bar tab?
Did they alter their long developed HR practces so you could hire that great IT guy without a college degree or that awesome sales guys with a few DUIs?
Did they let you change their rewards program so you could honor more people affiliates with your department?
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on March 23, 2010, 11:13:53 AM
Did you recruit yourself to the company that would be recruiting you?
I would if I thought I could get a raise out of it.
I like where I work, and I'm a loyal guy, but this is professional. There are other people in my company/industry always looking to get ahead. I need to look out for my own interests.
If I could "leak" my name and get a raise, I would. My boss doesn't exactly come to me each year offering a raise, so I would use leverage to get one.
With all of this said, I'm not a coach/teacher, which does make it a little different for coach crean.
Again, I can't "defend" what he was doing, but I can't really blast him either. He's looking out for himself and his family just like the rest of us do.
The article clearly states that Iowa was contacted bu either Crean or a his representative.
Tom Crean broke my heart when he left, so I'm just as bitter as everyone else.
I'm relatively young, but I've learned fairly early on that there's not really such a thing as professional loyalty. If Crean would have started losing games, Marquette would have stood behind him for a bit, but eventually fired him. This wasn't a marriage--for better or worse, until death do us part.
I think he should have had some loyalty to Marquette, but not the undying devotion that a lot of you guys seem to think he should have had.
Also, I think he realized that he kind of peaked. He took MU to the Final Four and got us into the Big East. Perhaps he was looking for a new challenge.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on March 23, 2010, 11:19:38 AM
I would if I thought I could get a raise out of it.
I like where I work, and I'm a loyal guy, but this is professional. There are other people in my company/industry always looking to get ahead. I need to look out for my own interests.
If I could "leak" my name and get a raise, I would. My boss doesn't exactly come to me each year offering a raise, so I would use leverage to get one.
With all of this said, I'm not a coach/teacher, which does make it a little different for coach crean.
Again, I can't "defend" what he was doing, but I can't really blast him either. He's looking out for himself and his family just like the rest of us do.
You're also not the CEO of the company. You're not making 5 to 7 times more than the next highest employee. You probably don't have a long term contract. Comparing your situation to Crean's is absurd.
Quote from: MuMark on March 23, 2010, 11:16:29 AM
My understanding is Iowa contacted him....and he turned down the job.
Think about it. Iowa hired Lickliter for 1.2 mil a year. Crean made quite a bit more then that at MU and you guys think he pursued a job to take a substantial pay cut?
You don't have to like Crean to see this doesn't pass the smell test.
Ding ding
I have no doubt his agent inquired, because that's what agents do. We deal with them on a daily basis and they're sharks at the highest order. That is their job, to push, inquire, feign interest, etc, because it means more money for their client and more money for the agent.
As I mentioned a few years ago here, you guys would have been blown away at the names of coaches that inquired about the 1999 MU job when Deane was let go. But a closer inspection of those names showed that most of those coaches did so for only one purpose.... to prop up their own current deals.
It's the game that is played. Maybe Buzz won't play that game....wonderful for us.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 23, 2010, 11:32:14 AM
Ding ding
I have no doubt his agent inquired, because that's what agents do. We deal with them on a daily basis and they're sharks at the highest order. That is their job, to push, inquire, feign interest, etc, because it means more money for their client and more money for the agent.
As I mentioned a few years ago here, you guys would have been blown away at the names of coaches that inquired about the 1999 MU job when Deane was let go. But a closer inspection of those names showed that most of those coaches did so for only one purpose.... to prop up their own current deals.
It's the game that is played. Maybe Buzz won't play that game....wonderful for us.
Well, one strike in the positive column is that Buzz has no "shark" to play that game. He'll have to do it on his own.
Who cares? It was obvious that Crean was trying to move on to (in his mind) bigger and better things. I had no problem with him taking a job at one of the most revered basketball programs in the country. The main problem I had was with the Baltimore Colt-ish way that he left. In the end though, he's gone and we all need to move on.
Besides, it has worked out tremendously for Marquette so far. Buzz Williams appears to be an outstanding recruiter and an even better person. He is a great face for the university. Crean also left the program with the Al, a place in the Big East, three outstanding senior guards, and the memories of D-Wade and the Final Four run. TC got Marquette back on the map, but then plateaued. Buzz appears to be picking up where Crean left off and will hopefully be taking MU to new heights.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 23, 2010, 11:28:05 AM
You're also not the CEO of the company. You're not making 5 to 7 times more than the next highest employee. You probably don't have a long term contract. Comparing your situation to Crean's is absurd.
We'll agree to disagree.
I don't think the amount of $ really changes the ethics or morality of the situation.
I would try to do the same thing... if I thought I could. In fact, if I was a contract employee, I'd be pushing even harder (lifespan of a coach can be pretty short).
Now, with this said, I can't really defend the guy because MU was very loyal to him and had offered him very competitive contracts (in terms of length and amount).
Iowa's pay wasn't set at $1.2M, that was only what they paid Lickliter. They were going to offer Stalling's $1.5M. Maybe TC inquired to see what they would offer him?
I think Buzz was paid just over 400K as an assistant. Assuming its over the Mil. mark, how much does he get paid now?
Who is Crean's agent and what is his history?
Chicos is right ... if you have an agent, they make calls on your behalf without asking. Then if another school is interested and the money is right, the agent calls you to twist your arm to take it.
Was Crean's name always rumored for every opening because that is what he told his agent to do, call everyone, and not tell him so he could deny it?
Quote from: MuMark on March 23, 2010, 11:16:29 AM
My understanding is Iowa contacted him....and he turned down the job.
Think about it. Iowa hired Lickliter for 1.2 mil a year. Crean made quite a bit more then that at MU and you guys think he pursued a job to take a substantial pay cut?
You don't have to like Crean to see this doesn't pass the smell test.
Wrong Crean inquired...Iowa was not interested.
Quote from: jwalsh on March 23, 2010, 11:50:19 AM
I think Buzz was paid just over 400K as an assistant. Assuming its over the Mil. mark, how much does he get paid now?
It's not a published number but in a story about Buzz today Todd Rosiak estimated that Buzz makes about $1million in base salary.
Didn't Crean get another raise in 07? Feels like one of those fishing expeditions to see how much the job paid and possibly drive up his own salary. Also, remember that while Crean/representatives were contacting Iowa, Crean was turning down $2 mil from Arkansas. This just doesn't have the feel of a serious interest, IMO.
"Wrong Crean inquired...Iowa was not interested."
Incorrect.
Quote from: MuMark on March 23, 2010, 12:19:58 PM
"Wrong Crean inquired...Iowa was not interested."
Incorrect.
So you're saying your source is better than the documents recovered via the Freedom of Information Act? It's possible, we're relying on AD's and their staff to remember exactly who they contacted and who contacted them but the documents state they were contacted by Crean's reps. You may be right, but your source contradicts what Iowa documented.
Quote from: The Lens on March 23, 2010, 12:46:57 PM
So you're saying your source is better than the documents recovered via the Freedom of Information Act? It's possible, we're relying on AD's and their staff to remember exactly who they contacted and who contacted them but the documents state they were contacted by Crean's reps. You may be right, but your source contradicts what Iowa documented.
He doesn't have a source.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 23, 2010, 12:50:41 PM
He doesn't have a source.
His name is MU Mark but I bet he's former Bears OL Mark Bortz. Played with Jim Harbaugh, went to Iowa. It all makes perfect sense. Bortz has to have college aged kids by now, prob has a kid at MU.
Remember when you need to know anything ask a Harbaugh. They'll tell sports radio about their brother in law taking a job before even Fr Wild knows.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 23, 2010, 11:59:55 AM
Who is Crean's agent and what is his history?
Chicos is right ... if you have an agent, they make calls on your behalf without asking. Then if another school is interested and the money is right, the agent calls you to twist your arm to take it.
Was Crean's name always rumored for every opening because that is what he told his agent to do, call everyone, and not tell him so he could deny it?
Yup....that's their job, it's what they do....isn't it ironic that Rick Majerus' name was named for just about every opening for a decade and yet again, the double standard here.....nothing but love for Rick despite leaving MU, despite looking for jobs all the time (maybe if Crean sat on players, took dumps in towels and made ball boys dispose of them he would face a better fate)
Quote from: The Lens on March 23, 2010, 12:59:46 PM
His name is MU Mark but I bet he's former Bears OL Mark Bortz. Played with Jim Harbaugh, went to Iowa. It all makes perfect sense. Bortz has to have college aged kids by now, prob has a kid at MU.
Remember when you need to know anything ask a Harbaugh. They'll tell sports radio about their brother in law taking a job before even Fr Wild knows.
Swear to God, Mark Bortz threatened to kick my ass in the Avalanche one time. He and his buddies where in their playing pool and he tried to take credit for some slop, much to my chagrin. That guy was a monster!
As far as who contacted who first it could have been Crean's agent reaching out and then Iowa contacting him.
Here is what I know....Crean could have had the Iowa job....he passed...not the other way around.
Are you trying to tell me that Crean wasn't good enough for Iowa but a year later was good enough for Indiana?
Its no secret that Crean was always looking around. I'm not defending him.....He is gone and I couldn't be happier with Buzz.
Facts are just the facts.....He turned down Arkansas and he turned down Iowa. Illinois was more complicated....they reached out...he told them what he wanted as far as money and control......they said thanks but no thanks.
2 years later and we are still talking about Tom Crean.......... ::)
Quote from: MuMark on March 23, 2010, 01:16:11 PM
Here is what I know....Crean could have had the Iowa job....he passed...not the other way around.
According to who? Crean? He's certainly somebody to be believed.
Illinois passed on Crean when they met him...not when they heard his demands.
Quote from: MuMark on March 23, 2010, 01:16:11 PM
As far as who contacted who first it could have been Crean's agent reaching out and then Iowa contacting him.
Here is what I know....Crean could have had the Iowa job....he passed...not the other way around.
Are you trying to tell me that Crean wasn't good enough for Iowa but a year later was good enough for Indiana?
Its no secret that Crean was always looking around. I'm not defending him.....He is gone and I couldn't be happier with Buzz.
Facts are just the facts.....He turned down Arkansas and he turned down Iowa. Illinois was more complicated....they reached out...he told them what he wanted as far as money and control......they said thanks but no thanks.
2 years later and we are still talking about Tom Crean.......... ::)
Can I have your autograph Mr. Bortz? Are you friends with 1946-47 team captain Charles Polzin?
Quote from: MuMark on March 23, 2010, 01:16:11 PM
2 years later and we are still talking about Tom Crean.......... ::)
They're just getting warmed up.....my guess is there is a direct correlation with misery of said coach and amount of discussion. In other words, if IU starts winning there will be less and less discussion. If he continues to struggle, then 2 years will be the tip of the ice burg.
Some people enjoy the misery of others.
QuoteSwear to God, Mark Bortz threatened to kick my ass in the Avalanche one time. He and his buddies where in their playing pool and he tried to take credit for some slop, much to my chagrin. That guy was a monster!
That kind of stuff is what makes MU great. Just big enough to get lost in - unless you want to. Its sweet to go to a place where you can brag about a guy threatening you in a bar over pool, and everyone knows who you're talking about like its an inside joke, yet its a totally obscure reference.
I love that sh*t.
(PS I'm realizing this sounds like some cocky crackback, but its not at all. I really think its cool. I'm just not sure how to write a post praising how ridiculous yet cool it all is without the post sounding ridiculous in turn.)
If he continues to struggle he will be looking for a job.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 23, 2010, 02:00:08 PM
If he continues to struggle, then 2 years will be the tip of the ice burg.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 23, 2010, 02:00:08 PM
Some people enjoy the misery of others.
I enjoy the misery of Indiana not of Crean. In fact I hope things get 1000 times worse for IU. This is what happens when you hire a PROVEN scumbag like Kelvin Sampson. Everything that happens to them they brought on themselves.
Crean just happens to be there.
Quote from: Fullodds on March 23, 2010, 02:12:06 PM
If he continues to struggle he will be looking for a job.
Yes, eventually that would be the case. It's a profession where you're hired to be fired....very few escape that inevitable ending....or they move along before the posse gets to town.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 23, 2010, 01:27:59 PM
According to who? Crean? He's certainly somebody to be believed.
Illinois passed on Crean when they met him...not when they heard his demands.
So did Kyrie Irving
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 23, 2010, 02:00:08 PM
They're just getting warmed up.....my guess is there is a direct correlation with misery of said coach and amount of discussion. In other words, if IU starts winning there will be less and less discussion. If he continues to struggle, then 2 years will be the tip of the ice burg.
Some people enjoy the misery of others.
Nobody on this board has has anywhere near the amount of "Tom Crean" posts as you. When he was 3-3 in conference this year you were positively giddy. Imagine how often you'd be on here singing his praises if he wasn't 5-33 vs Big Ten competition. You'd have easily cracked the 10,000 number for posts.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 23, 2010, 11:32:14 AM
Ding ding
I have no doubt his agent inquired, because that's what agents do. We deal with them on a daily basis and they're sharks at the highest order. That is their job, to push, inquire, feign interest, etc, because it means more money for their client and more money for the agent.
As I mentioned a few years ago here, you guys would have been blown away at the names of coaches that inquired about the 1999 MU job when Deane was let go. But a closer inspection of those names showed that most of those coaches did so for only one purpose.... to prop up their own current deals.
It's the game that is played. Maybe Buzz won't play that game....wonderful for us.
Buzz will eventually play that game, everybody does. to think differenly is naive. Buzz may decide MU is indeed for him and stay for the longrun. what i find curious is he has only been here two seasons and this topic is already being discussed.
Look, Crean's a snake in the grass. He's just not smart enough to pull it off. Suffice it to say he's a "dumb snake." Nothing, nothing, nothing surprises me with this cat.
In the meantime, I'm just content to bide some time until the dude gets his, and he will.
Quote from: slitheringviper on March 23, 2010, 08:18:43 PM
We all await the downfall of Tanned Tommy Crean. The Iowa revelation is no surprise - then man is a scoundrel unworthy of our respect. I look forward to the day he is dismissed by IIII.
Me too, slitheringviper....me too!!!
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 23, 2010, 07:39:21 PM
Buzz will eventually play that game, everybody does. to think differenly is naive. Buzz may decide MU is indeed for him and stay for the longrun. what i find curious is he has only been here two seasons and this topic is already being discussed.
one problem with your theory is the fact that Buzz does not have an agent. Secondly, he has stated he is making more than he ever dreamed of and will never negotiate a salary with MU, he has stated he has simply asked Mu to pay him what they think the job is worth.
Now apparently you think he is just like Tom Crean and has suppressed it heretofore pretty sad you are that cynical
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 23, 2010, 07:57:24 PM
Look, Crean's a snake in the grass. He's just not smart enough to pull it off. Suffice it to say he's a "dumb snake." Nothing, nothing, nothing surprises me with this cat.
In the meantime, I'm just content to bide some time until the dude gets his, and he will.
I'd say anyone making $2.3 million per year who apparently can't do his job well, is a lot smarter than anyone on this board.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on March 24, 2010, 06:44:07 PM
one problem with your theory is the fact that Buzz does not have an agent. Secondly, he has stated he is making more than he ever dreamed of and will never negotiate a salary with MU, he has stated he has simply asked Mu to pay him what they think the job is worth.
Now apparently you think he is just like Tom Crean and has suppressed it heretofore pretty sad you are that cynical
I never said he was just like Crean. the fact that you guys are already discussing Buzz's tenure 2 years into the gig speaks to your insecurity. bottom line is it is a business first and foremost. Never forget that and don't take it personal, which is unfortunatetly what many MU fans do.