do the losses by seton hall and usf and the close win by UConn in the NIT make anyone else nervous about the Big East not being as great as advertised in the the NCAAs?
When it comes to determining the outcome of these games, you'd have to factor in a lot of things before you get to the relative strength/weakness of a conference. IMHO...
Not me. There's a whole different atmosphere and attitude that goes with playing in the Not In Tournament. I remember this horrible March night at the BC vs. Western Michigan...
No. What incentive do those teams have to compete? Who cares about being crowned the 65th best team in the country? Those are all teams that had hoped to be dancing. I'm sure the NIT is probably just an embarrassing and inadequate substitute for them. Getting out in the first round is the best thing that could happen to an NIT team.
Nah....
1) We won against both of them and...
2) UConn had checked out.
3) NC State is was clearly able to upset a few decent teams this year (MU, Duke, Fl. St., Clemson) and are actually playing pretty decent recently. Better than USF.
Quote from: BirkieWarrior on March 17, 2010, 01:15:44 PM
No. What incentive do those teams have to compete? Who cares about being crowned the 65th best team in the country? Those are all teams that had hoped to be dancing. I'm sure the NIT is probably just an embarrassing and inadequate substitute for them. Getting out in the first round is the best thing that could happen to an NIT team.
It's a FIELD of 65....not the BEST 65. Big difference.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on March 17, 2010, 01:38:55 PM
It's a FIELD of 65....not the BEST 65. Big difference.
Wow. A lot of posters are really taking comments literally today. A little on edge before the big game, perhaps?
I think this thread makes a valid point. For Hall and USF to go down to two teams with 4 conference wins in their league, says something. I don't care if it is the NIT, especially for Hall and USF - its not like they are perrenial NCAA teams that are embarrassed to be in the NIT. I'm sure they wanted to win those games. I do agree that NC State played well in ACC tourney, and upset some teams this year, so not such a bad loss.
That said, Ken Pomroy has the ACC and Big 12 being the Number 1 and 2 conferences respectively, with the Big East #3..and a decent degree of margin between the 3 conferences. ACC and Big 12 rated 89, Big East 86 and Big Ten is 86 as well. Pac 10 = 79. Mountain West (New Mexico) = 72
Quote from: BirkieWarrior on March 17, 2010, 01:15:44 PM
Getting out in the first round is the best thing that could happen to an NIT team.
I'm sure Arizona State is thrilled they lost to Jacksonville in the opening round
wow, can't believe how many people take the NIT seriously. There are just too many variables when it comes to how serious teams take it and what form they are in. You had Seton Hall with its nutcase coach and team in disarray a day from being fired and a UCONN team that checked out weeks ago. I wouldn't put much stock in either game.
I for one think the NIT is a great training ground for a young team to get post season experience. I remember a great experience when Marquette went to the final game a Hutch came into his own. Any coach that lets his team mail it in is simply not dedicated to his profession.
Quote from: Ners on March 17, 2010, 01:41:35 PM
That said, Ken Pomroy has the ACC and Big 12 being the Number 1 and 2 conferences respectively, with the Big East #3..and a decent degree of margin between the 3 conferences. ACC and Big 12 rated 89, Big East 86 and Big Ten is 86 as well. Pac 10 = 79. Mountain West (New Mexico) = 72
I don't know how his formula works, but I'd like to see how the BE stacks up if you remove the outlier, DePaul.
Seton Hall obviously was self-imploding as Gonzos departure today confirms. In USF's case, why would Jones keep giving up the ball. In the end, motivation is a key in the NIT. Neither of those teams had it. UConn finally got it.
We are also talking about the 9th, 10th and 12th place teams in the BE. What are the 9th, 10th and 12th best teams in the ACC doing this week?
I didn't see any of the games, but Northeastern is actually a decent team that's got a couple of wins over NCAA tourney teams. NC State seems to have a lot of variance in how well or poorly they play, and it sounds like Seton Hall fell apart after Pope got tossed.
Quote from: dsfire on March 17, 2010, 02:12:45 PM
I didn't see any of the games, but Northeastern is actually a decent team that's got a couple of wins over NCAA tourney teams. NC State seems to have a lot of variance in how well or poorly they play, and it sounds like Seton Hall fell apart after Pope got tossed.
Pope got tossed with the score tied 10-10. They went on to give up
the next 13 points, running it to 23-10.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=147&f=1081&t=5740781 (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=147&f=1081&t=5740781)
The Huskie board has mixed feelings on the Big East.
Look at the teams you're talking about UConn, USF, and Seton Hall. Is this a serious thread?
Quote from: BirkieWarrior on March 17, 2010, 01:15:44 PM
No. What incentive do those teams have to compete? Who cares about being crowned the 65th best team in the country? Those are all teams that had hoped to be dancing. I'm sure the NIT is probably just an embarrassing and inadequate substitute for them. Getting out in the first round is the best thing that could happen to an NIT team.
Agreed 110%. I'd be more concerned if teams thought that playing hard and winning games in the NIT mattered at all. It would show just as much about strength of the conference if they went bowling instead and forced the team with the highest score to keep playing.
Quote from: BirkieWarrior on March 17, 2010, 01:15:44 PM
No. What incentive do those teams have to compete? Who cares about being crowned the 65th best team in the country? Those are all teams that had hoped to be dancing. I'm sure the NIT is probably just an embarrassing and inadequate substitute for them. Getting out in the first round is the best thing that could happen to an NIT team.
HA... its like the South Park where the kids try to suck at baseball that they can lose and go home... sorry, the episode was on last night
You can not judge based on the NIT. Some teams just dont have the will. But what does it prove anyways. Our NIT teams are worse than other conferences NIT teams? I dont care about any of that. All i care about are NCAA tourney results, most importantly MU's.
Quote from: BrewCity on March 17, 2010, 02:07:47 PM
We are also talking about the 9th, 10th and 12th place teams in the BE. What are the 9th, 10th and 12th best teams in the ACC doing this week?
Actually NC State is the 9th place team in the ACC, as is Texas Tech the 9th place team in the Big 12. And both games were on the road for NC State and Tech. Though some seem to think the NIT doesn't matter, these kids are competitors, as are there coaches, and I just don't buy that they aren't really interested in winning - therefore I think it does reflect that the Big East may not be as strong as some would like to believe Top to Bottom.
Quote from: Ners on March 17, 2010, 07:18:27 PM
Actually NC State is the 9th place team in the ACC, as is Texas Tech the 9th place team in the Big 12. And both games were on the road for NC State and Tech. Though some seem to think the NIT doesn't matter, these kids are competitors, as are there coaches, and I just don't buy that they aren't really interested in winning - therefore I think it does reflect that the Big East may not be as strong as some would like to believe Top to Bottom.
I actually agree with you here. Excepting the Seton Hall game, which I discount because of all the stuff going on around the team, I think those games mean something. The ball's in the air and the kids are playing, I think they're giving effort. Why would NC State or Texas Tech be any more enthusiastic?
In the end, other than Syracuse, I see real flaws on all the Big East teams this year. While I used to be a huge national college basketball fan, I have slowly narrowed my focus onto just the Big East the last few years since we joined. So I admittedly lack perspective. To me, West Virginia is weak at guard and aren't the best scoring team in the world (which is always of paramount importance in the NCAAs), Nova can't defend and is too small (they are basically us + 5%), Pittsburgh always underperforms in the NCAAs because they can't consistently score the ball, ND is slow and is using gimmmicky slow down tactics which never work over sustained periods in the NCAA since the shot clock, we are small and lack depth and have no level to rise to as I think we are maxed out (think Keady's old Purdue teams), Georgetown is inconsistent and not deep, and Louisville is wildly inconsistent. Maybe I'm jaded by how good everyone was last year, but I just don't think the league is that strong and I'd be surprised by any Big East team in the Final Four other than Syracuse, and even they have lost their last two games.
I suppose if you went through all the other schools you could come up with the same types of stuff. All that really matters is us, though. Anywhere from a 10 point point loss to UW to an Elite 8 wouldn't shock me with these guys.
Quote from: ODMU238 on March 17, 2010, 01:09:28 PM
do the losses by seton hall and usf and the close win by UConn in the NIT make anyone else nervous about the Big East not being as great as advertised in the the NCAAs?
I'm not sure the BEAST was advertised as being all that great this year. It was expected the BEAST would be down year, and there was a great deal of parody in the conference. I think the entire field is weaker than in recent history.
Why would you judge a conference by the consolation tournament? It makes no sense at all!
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 17, 2010, 07:57:58 PM
I actually agree with you here. Excepting the Seton Hall game, which I discount because of all the stuff going on around the team, I think those games mean something. The ball's in the air and the kids are playing, I think they're giving effort. Why would NC State or Texas Tech be any more enthusiastic?
In the end, other than Syracuse, I see real flaws on all the Big East teams this year. While I used to be a huge national college basketball fan, I have slowly narrowed my focus onto just the Big East the last few years since we joined. So I admittedly lack perspective. To me, West Virginia is weak at guard and aren't the best scoring team in the world (which is always of paramount importance in the NCAAs), Nova can't defend and is too small (they are basically us + 5%), Pittsburgh always underperforms in the NCAAs because they can't consistently score the ball, ND is slow and is using gimmmicky slow down tactics which never work over sustained periods in the NCAA since the shot clock, we are small and lack depth and have no level to rise to as I think we are maxed out (think Keady's old Purdue teams), Georgetown is inconsistent and not deep, and Louisville is wildly inconsistent. Maybe I'm jaded by how good everyone was last year, but I just don't think the league is that strong and I'd be surprised by any Big East team in the Final Four other than Syracuse, and even they have lost their last two games.
I suppose if you went through all the other schools you could come up with the same types of stuff. All that really matters is us, though. Anywhere from a 10 point point loss to UW to an Elite 8 wouldn't shock me with these guys.
Agree with your analysis 100%..all well said.
Quote from: mu77vegas on March 17, 2010, 09:04:58 PM
Why would you judge a conference by the consolation tournament? It makes no sense at all!
I'm not sure we are judging this conference based on the NIT tournament, but rather just trying to draw some insight into how things could play out in the Bg dance. When you have two 9-9 Big East teams who lose to 5-11 NCState and 4-12 Texas Tech (and consider NC State beat Mu at home), it gives me pause for concern about how the Big East will fare in the NCAA and partiularily how we stack up against Big 12/AC Teams. that said Cincy beat Maryland too.
St. John's loses tonight by 2 points at Memphis
Cincinnati wins over Weber State
Big East 2-3 in the NIT thus far
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 18, 2010, 12:10:53 AM
St. John's loses tonight by 2 points at Memphis
Cincinnati wins over Weber State
Big East 2-3 in the NIT thus far
Man, St. Johns lost another heartbreaker last night. Gotta credit the Memphis fan base, great turnout for an NIT game, loud and into it - It certainly looked like that game mattered to its fans, players, as well as the St. John's kids. Needless to say, we barely beat St. Johns, and their Big East record was deceiving on some level - whereas Memphis was 13-3 in Conference USA, good for 2nd place.
Notre Dame and Villanova aren't helping the case...
yup good job ND and Nova, reppin the big east well
Quote from: JMcSteal on March 18, 2010, 01:38:04 PM
yup good job ND and Nova, reppin the big east well
Villanova was absolutely given that game by the referees the last few minutesmof regulation. Reynolds hurled himself into the defense and got the call four times in a row, all questionable. He doesn't get any one of those calls and Nova loses. I thought Rice was going to attack an official at one point.