Vander Blue and Madison Memorial made it back to the Kohl Center by beating Middleton last night. (Middleton upset Madison East on Friday.)
J.P. Tokoto's Memomonee Falls team lost to Arrowhead in the sectional finals, and Marquette University High School made their first WIAA state tournament by beating up on Milwaukee King.
My alma mater Catholic Memorial won in AA is it? I'm living out of state. Was TJ Bray ever on MU's radar? Headed to Princeton I heard for academics, and should be a pretty solid Ivy League player.
How is Mr. Blue doing this year? I looked at one web site and saw that he is averaging about 17 points per game.
Is he dominant, or is he more of a team first type guy? Anybody out there following him this year?
Quote from: romey on March 14, 2010, 08:39:22 AM
My alma mater Catholic Memorial won in AA is it? I'm living out of state. Was TJ Bray ever on MU's radar? Headed to Princeton I heard for academics, and should be a pretty solid Ivy League player.
Division 2. Bray is a solid player, but not BE level. They will likely be state champions this year. My guess is that they will play a pretty tough Northwestern team in the championship game.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 14, 2010, 09:05:08 AM
How is Mr. Blue doing this year? I looked at one web site and saw that he is averaging about 17 points per game.
Is he dominant, or is he more of a team first type guy? Anybody out there following him this year?
I have not seen him play, but this Memorial team is weaker than previous ones. They were the second seed in the sectional, but they got there. My guess is that they are in the championship game...most of the other contenders seem to be on the other side of the bracket. (Hamilton, Arrowhead, Marquette)
Thanks Sultan. Down here in Ga. 5A is top level, then 4A etc.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 14, 2010, 09:05:08 AM
How is Mr. Blue doing this year? I looked at one web site and saw that he is averaging about 17 points per game.
Is he dominant, or is he more of a team first type guy? Anybody out there following him this year?
Last night was a struggle
http://m.host.madison.com/sports/high-school/basketball/article_ce029ab4-2f11-11df-8143-001cc4c002e0.html
he missed 14 of his last 15 shots and Memorial survived a 3 point shot dimming out to win by 2 points. For the year, he's doing well.
Not sure why the WIAA permits private schools to compete at sub-Division 1 levels. Cath Mem has played and beaten Division 1 teams including Arrowhead. I have no problem with Cath Mem bringing in players from all over, but at least play the big boys then (like MUHS & Pius). A CM vs. MUHS matchup would be great.
Memorial did everything they could to lose that game at the end, but Middleton just barely came up short. Not a good game for Vander. I think Buzz's system will be 90x better for him than what he currently plays in.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on March 14, 2010, 09:59:38 AM
Not sure why the WIAA permits private schools to compete at sub-Division 1 levels. Cath Mem has played and beaten Division 1 teams including Arrowhead. I have no problem with Cath Mem bringing in players from all over, but at least play the big boys then (like MUHS & Pius). A CM vs. MUHS matchup would be great.
It's based purely on size of enrollment.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on March 14, 2010, 09:59:38 AM
Not sure why the WIAA permits private schools to compete at sub-Division 1 levels. Cath Mem has played and beaten Division 1 teams including Arrowhead. I have no problem with Cath Mem bringing in players from all over, but at least play the big boys then (like MUHS & Pius). A CM vs. MUHS matchup would be great.
Yeah, a school of 750 should be competing in D1. Memorial won the the Classic 8 going 14-0 this year. They could probably win D1 this year, but they are correctly competing in D2. I mean should Dominican at like 400 students compete in D1 too? What about Brookfield Academy?
I'm not sure Blue is going to come in and have the impact many MU fans seem to think. He may be highly rated, but he's just been marginally impressive this year - granted he is the focal point for other teams to stop, but still. From the link Chicos posted:
It certainly didn't help the third-ranked Spartans that Blue's shots weren't falling. The senior guard finished with 14 points but missed 14 of his last 15 shots from the field and finished 3-of-17 overall. The Marquette recruit was also just 7-of-14 from the free throw line for Memorial, which shot a lowly 40 percent as a team from the line.
Enter Creamer, who took over as the Spartans' go-to player. His biggest shot was a 3-pointer from the wing off a feed from Blue that gave Memorial a 51-43 lead with 2:54 left in the game.
"I leaned on my right-hand man, Tre," Blue said. "I said, 'Go get the ball ... it's your turn now.' I get a lot of the limelight, but he's just as valuable to the team."
Quote from: Warrior of Law on March 14, 2010, 09:59:38 AM
Not sure why the WIAA permits private schools to compete at sub-Division 1 levels. Cath Mem has played and beaten Division 1 teams including Arrowhead. I have no problem with Cath Mem bringing in players from all over, but at least play the big boys then (like MUHS & Pius). A CM vs. MUHS matchup would be great.
If BrewCity is correct (it's based on enrollment size), that's how they do it out here in CA.
And you're right. Solid, small private schools get to play weaker small public schools.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on March 14, 2010, 12:02:21 PM
If BrewCity is correct (it's based on enrollment size), that's how they do it out here in CA.
And you're right. Solid, small private schools get to play weaker small public schools.
Well, not always. My alma mater, St. Bonaventure, has moved from Division 11 all the way up to Division 4 in football because we've won so many CIF titles in the last 10 years. This is despite having an enrollment of 650, we are playing schools 5 or 6 times bigger than us.
I truly believe Newbill is better than Blue. Competition in Philadelphia is tougher than competition in Madison. He certainly was not scared away by Blue. Blue might be more athletic, but Newbill is more skilled.
Quote from: bilsu on March 14, 2010, 12:10:56 PM
I truly believe Newbill is better than Blue. Competition in Philadelphia is tougher than competition in Madison. He certainly was not scared away by Blue. Blue might be more athletic, but Newbill is more skilled.
Wow. Provide some evidence.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 14, 2010, 12:06:14 PM
Well, not always. My alma mater, St. Bonaventure, has moved from Division 11 all the way up to Division 4 in football because we've won so many CIF titles in the last 10 years. This is despite having an enrollment of 650, we are playing schools 5 or 6 times bigger than us.
Chico, I thought this was about basketball.
I know CA Football has open divisions and high schools - regardless of size - can elect to go "open division" if they are eligible.
Bellarmine, my alma mater, elected to do so though
only ~1500 students. They've played teams with HS enrollments of 3,000+.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on March 14, 2010, 12:24:13 PM
Wow. Provide some evidence.
Looks like the kid's already used to Marquette-like games.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOSbQODVYxA
w-o-w.
Quote from: bilsu on March 14, 2010, 12:10:56 PM
I truly believe Newbill is better than Blue. Competition in Philadelphia is tougher than competition in Madison. He certainly was not scared away by Blue. Blue might be more athletic, but Newbill is more skilled.
Blue was very clearly the better player when the two played against each other at the elite camp, in fact Blue was the best player among a slew of elite high school prospects. Newbill, while nice, isn't on that level. If you really think Newbill's better, then you really don't know much about the two players, because there isn't a single aspect of his game that is better than Blue's.
Quote from: bma725 on March 14, 2010, 12:41:47 PM
Blue was very clearly the better player when the two played against each other at the elite camp, in fact Blue was the best player among a slew of elite high school prospects. Newbill, while nice, isn't on that level. If you really think Newbill's better, then you really don't know much about the two players, because there isn't a single aspect of his game that is better than Blue's.
Not to mention some of the east coast analysts who are skeptical...even saying that Newbill doesnt belong anywhere near the Big East...
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on March 14, 2010, 12:35:05 PM
Chico, I thought this was about basketball.
I know CA Football has open divisions and high schools - regardless of size - can elect to go "open division" if they are eligible.
Bellarmine, my alma mater, elected to do so though only ~1500 students. They've played teams with HS enrollments of 3,000+.
It is about basketball, but with my alma mater we are in a league and forced into a Division 4 league for all sports, not just football (we're not in an open division). So it affects all sports, including basketball. Next year, they are forcing us up again since we went 4 straight years of winning every conference game we played in football in the Channel League. Next year we're in the Marmonte League (they're also forcing Oaks Christian into that league) so we'll have 4 of the top 10 football powers in the state in one conference, but basketball has to come along, too.
Bellarmine Prep....I have a few Bells working for me.
Chico, alright. Didn't know that.
Oaks Christian huh? That's talent - and name - loaded.
I'm hoping Blue's "funk" is in part due to his readiness to move out of the madison area.
Getting "a-hole" chants when at the line is fine and he needs to stay mentally tough but it's got to be weird when 95% of the population you live amongst thinks you are a traitor.
Blue has proven himself against elite competition in AAU play causing Rivals to rank him amongst the elite and it's nice to hear BMA's report on Blue.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on March 14, 2010, 12:45:11 PM
Not to mention some of the east coast analysts who are skeptical...even saying that Newbill doesnt belong anywhere near the Big East...
I love how we have a few guys on here that are very very knowledgeable and trustworthy about prep players, analysis, rankings, etc...just curious if you could expand on that a little bit. What is it they say about him that makes him not Big East calibur? He at least has good guard size, and I know he plays in a much smaller school division in Philly, wondering if not being able to play against elite talent regularly is part of that, especially if he didn't play a lot of AAU which I have no idea about either haha. If you saw him play personally, Id be curious what you or bma thought.
Quote from: KCMarq09 on March 14, 2010, 02:26:53 PM
I love how we have a few guys on here that are very very knowledgeable and trustworthy about prep players, analysis, rankings, etc...just curious if you could expand on that a little bit. What is it they say about him that makes him not Big East calibur? He at least has good guard size, and I know he plays in a much smaller school division in Philly, wondering if not being able to play against elite talent regularly is part of that, especially if he didn't play a lot of AAU which I have no idea about either haha. If you saw him play personally, Id be curious what you or bma thought.
I dont claim to be any type of insider, or scout. I just do research, ask questions, and read reports that are available to all of us. BMA is clearly the guy to go to for the real dish.
Regarding "not being a Big East player"...I am trying to find the exact quote, but it was in an article when he committed.
I did ask someone that is heavily involved with recruiting for a high major D1 school, and he had never heard of DJ Newbill before he committed to MU.
Again, I have not seen him play, just going off of what I read/was told. Others have seen him play and can provide more input. In the end...Buzz thinks he is worth a scholarship, who am I to argue?
What I do take exception the post by bilsu:
Quote from: bilsu on March 14, 2010, 12:10:56 PM
I truly believe Newbill is better than Blue. Competition in Philadelphia is tougher than competition in Madison. He certainly was not scared away by Blue. Blue might be more athletic, but Newbill is more skilled.
All I want to hear from him is an explanation and some back up.
I'm no Newbill expert, but I do know that in back to back games this season he scored 37 and 64 points. The 64 point outburst broke the Philly schoolboy record held by Wilt, I think.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on March 14, 2010, 02:43:41 PM
I dont claim to be any type of insider, or scout. I just do research, ask questions, and read reports that are available to all of us. BMA is clearly the guy to go to for the real dish.
Regarding "not being a Big East player"...I am trying to find the exact quote, but it was in an article when he committed.
I did ask someone that is heavily involved with recruiting for a high major D1 school, and he had never heard of DJ Newbill before he committed to MU.
Again, I have not seen him play, just going off of what I read/was told. Others have seen him play and can provide more input. In the end...Buzz thinks he is worth a scholarship, who am I to argue?
What I do take exception the post by bilsu:
All I want to hear from him is an explanation and some back up.
Maybe it is speaking out of turn, but I think Bilsu's point that playing ball in Philly is likely to be better competition than Madison - was his justification. BMA is obviously the best source of info on recruits, but I do recall it being said, perhaps by Dodds or Mark Miller, that Newbill was the 3rd best player at MU's elite camp this past summer - after Tarik Black and Vander Blue (if my memory serves me correctly on the players ahead of him) - but it was definitley reported that he was the 3rd, (or 4th best player )at MU's elite camp. That is a 100% reported fact
What I am asking for, is an explanation why he knows (thinks) Newbill is "better than Blue" and "more skilled than Blue"
If he has seen both play multiple times...Fine, I will trust him
If he was at the Elite Camp...Fine, I will trust him
Other than that, I am not sure as to what he can base those statements on.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on March 14, 2010, 12:24:13 PM
Wow. Provide some evidence.
Funny.
You wrote off Jamail Jones earlier in the week with no explanation. This man expresses his opinion and you need evidence.
I always love the "I'm closer to the program and know more then you" posts. I've realized lately that this stuff is petty and assholic.
Quote from: Ners on March 14, 2010, 02:54:52 PM
Maybe it is speaking out of turn, but I think Bilsu's point that playing ball in Philly is likely to be better competition than Madison - was his justification. BMA is obviously the best source of info on recruits, but I do recall it being said, perhaps by Dodds or Mark Miller, that Newbill was the 3rd best player at MU's elite camp this past summer - after Tarik Black and Vander Blue (if my memory serves me correctly on the players ahead of him) - but it was definitley reported that he was the 3rd, (or 4th best player )at MU's elite camp. That is a 100% reported fact
A 100% reported fact is someone's opinion about who was 3rd (or 4th best)? ;)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 14, 2010, 03:27:16 PM
A 100% reported fact is someone's opinion about who was 3rd (or 4th best)? ;)
Nice :) Let's put it this way, Newbill was said to be either the 3rd or 4th best player at the Elite Camp (I just can't remember with 100% certainty if it was 3rd or 4th), but am 100% sure the opinion of either Dodds or Mark Miller was that Newbill was the 3rd or 4th best player there.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on March 14, 2010, 03:14:35 PM
Funny.
You wrote off Jamail Jones earlier in the week with no explanation. This man expresses his opinion and you need evidence.
I always love the "I'm closer to the program and know more then you" posts. I've realized lately that this stuff is petty and assholic.
What I said about Jones wast as outlandish as what he said about Blue/Newbill. I think Jones is purely a shooter right now, and doesnt create well enough at this point. To go with that...I dont think there will be alot of minutes available for him to begin with.
I'm not close to the program whatsoever. I just gather background before saying things.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 14, 2010, 12:06:14 PM
Well, not always. My alma mater, St. Bonaventure, has moved from Division 11 all the way up to Division 4 in football because we've won so many CIF titles in the last 10 years. This is despite having an enrollment of 650, we are playing schools 5 or 6 times bigger than us.
Well if we're talking alma maters here, did you graduate or just attend? I, mean, it makes a difference. Just sayin'.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 14, 2010, 03:39:37 PM
Well if we're talking alma maters here, did you graduate or just attend? I, mean, it makes a difference. Just sayin'.
Blue will be in the mix for playing time and I have been told by a few people that Buzz basically told Blue
he would start next year. I made a bet that he will not, will see on that. The other freshman will not see
much playing time, if they do, it would be a pleasant surprise. Reverse order on the team for PT time, maybe
Mbao, Newbill, Jones, Smith last 4. The Top 9 will be DJO, Butler, Buycks, CAdougan, Crowder, Otule, Blue,
Fulce, Williams. The 3 scholarships for the 2011 will be very important as you lose 3 out of that group. MU
can field a team of Otule, Crowder, Blue, DJO and Cadougan. Not bad, the 3 frosh will be needed and at least
1 top recruit would be nice.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 14, 2010, 03:39:37 PM
Well if we're talking alma maters here, did you graduate or just attend? I, mean, it makes a difference. Just sayin'.
Oh, that's right....I forgot the Lenny postulate. I think he also said you can't have multiple alma maters, despite what the definition says. LOL
For the record, yes I graduated from there with my lovely high school degree.
For me it is a gut feeling. I think Blue has had a disappointing senior season, while it appears Newbill is on the rise.
Everybody take a chill pill. Vander starts by BE season. Newbill can't carry his jockstrap.
Regarding Vander...
People need to understand that Memorial lost the two time state player of the year and has very little inside presence. Junior Lomomba was hurt a good portion of the year. Yet in spite of this, Memorial finished tied for first in the Big 8 (which has ten teams), a conference that many believe is the best in the state this year. (6 regional champions...two sectional champions). This is big time high school basketball, and teams were throwing everything into stopping Vander.
IMO, this is only going to make him better once he gets to college.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on March 14, 2010, 09:59:38 AM
Not sure why the WIAA permits private schools to compete at sub-Division 1 levels. Cath Mem has played and beaten Division 1 teams including Arrowhead. I have no problem with Cath Mem bringing in players from all over, but at least play the big boys then (like MUHS & Pius). A CM vs. MUHS matchup would be great.
There are proposals out there that would force privates to play up a division, but that isn't going to happen.