I am convinced that it was the right choice for Junior to play this year. 90% of the time he has been out there, he has looked ok. The only exception being against that press that ate him up. The move to the hole yesterday that got slapped 3 rows deep was actually a really nice move. He turned the corner on his defender and got to the rack effortlessly.....right before impact. He has given Mo an extra breather and who knows what would have happened with Buycks ill. And now he knows what the speed is going to look like, what he is going to need to do to his body to get better and with his body when he is on the floor. Being a bit player now will pay dividends next year.
I hope you're right, but he hasn't been the difference in a game, and I hate that we threw away a year of his eligibility to drive home the point that he needs to get in better shape.
It's certainly not something I would call a mistake, though. Cadougan, after all, should have the final say. If he wanted to play and he was cleared medically, I think you have to let him play. Don't think it was the best thing for Marquette basketball in a perfect world, though.
We all s/b very concerned for next year. I really hope I'm wrong, but JC showed that he is not even close to being a BEAST point. Yes, I realize injuries, prevented him from practice. playing etc. but when he was in, he was very over matched and looked completely lost.
Just go back to TD as a freshman. Played about 10 min a game and had the usual freshman mistakes but also flashes of talent. With JC, there have been NO flashes.
We are going to be, very young at the point next year. NOT GOOD
Not sure what this year did for his confidence.
PG is probably the biggest question mark for next year. I too didn't see much from JC this year and look forward to him proving me wrong next year.
they mentioned during the game yesterday that he's --if my memory is correct-- been in 10 games, and played a total of 30 some minutes. worth giving up a whole season for? hard to justify.
Junior Cadougan suffered one of the more gruesome injuries an athlete (or regular person) can suffer.
His performance thus far is not indicative of what he is capable of in good health and after going through a significant amount of practices. Do you guys realize how far behind he is?!?!?
Those of us who have seen Junior play when healthy, against very high level of competition know what he is capable of. He will be fine!!!!!
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 13, 2010, 12:46:43 PM
I hope you're right, but he hasn't been the difference in a game, and I hate that we threw away a year of his eligibility to drive home the point that he needs to get in better shape.
It's certainly not something I would call a mistake, though. Cadougan, after all, should have the final say. If he wanted to play and he was cleared medically, I think you have to let him play. Don't think it was the best thing for Marquette basketball in a perfect world, though.
I am not sure what everyone was expecting. Buzz stated that he told JC, that if he came back he would be the difference in one game this year. Were you expecting a game winning shot? A steal with less than 3 seconds on the clock securing a hard fought win over a top 5 team?
Perhaps he did make a difference and it just isn't very noticeable to us fans. An extra body during practice & a breather here and there for the starters who needed just a minute or so of rest as they went all out against much bigger BEAST opponents. Perhaps with the razor thin margin for error that Buzz has repeatedly stated that this team operates with, that whatever JC did do on the court or in practice, allowed this team to win a few extra games that it might not have won without his contribution. NCAA bound vs. being an NIT team?
Here's Junior's stats for the year thus far:
Played in 11 games with no starts (did not play in 3 other games he suited up for) for 46 minutes, averaging 4.2 minutes in games played.
He was 0-7 from the field, including 0-2 from 3-point land, and 4-6 from the free throw line, for a total of 4 points and 0.4 points per game.
He grabbed 5 rebounds (1 offensive), had 4 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers and committed 5 fouls.
Not a lot form the stat sheet this year, but if he learned how hard guards have to play in the Big East and saw how much determination Acker and Cubillan used to get their playing time, then it could help in the long run.
I would have preferred that he red shirt because of the injury, but it is what it is. Hopefully he surprises us all next year.
Look at how Buzz doled out minutes to Otule and Fulce when they returned from their injuries last year. Nada. The fact that Cadougan can miss 2/3 of the year (I am sure Buzz would say it is X practices), can come back from an injury that probably diminished some his explosiveness, and play minutes (granted, only a couple) every game says a lot. Buzz is finding JC minutes when he can't find EWill minutes. I predict Junior will be just fine.
To me it does not matter. Barring a major improvement he does not play next year anyways.
The biggest help (although not needed to burn the redshirt) was that Junior was able to fill out the practice team. At least the 7 rotation players got to play 5 on 5 in practice w/Junior.
Other than that .. Junior indeed looks like he's a work in progress .. he'll have until October, plus ~13 cupcakes to get BE ready.
Quote from: bilsu on March 13, 2010, 02:24:16 PM
To me it does not matter. Barring a major improvement he does not play next year anyways.
And who plays at the point for us for the whole season? You think JC does not play?
Quote from: GOMU1104 on March 13, 2010, 01:33:11 PM
Those of us who have seen Junior play when healthy, against very high level of competition know what he is capable of. He will be fine!!!!!
I'm sure he will be fine. It's just that I'd rather he was fine with four years of eligibility left instead of 3, given how not fine he is right now.
I think next year's guard rotation will be interesting. I think I see it being JC at the #1, DJO at the #2 and Blue at the #3 with DB and JF getting very significant minutes off the bench. Jimmy and Crowder start up front.
Can someone save this thread in case Junior has his Joe Chapman moment and hits a key shot in our 1st round game that powers us to a W? ;D
Quote from: bilsu on March 13, 2010, 02:24:16 PM
To me it does not matter. Barring a major improvement he does not play next year anyways.
I assume you think Vander will play point next year? I don't know.....point guard has me very concerned next year for all the reasons mentioned. I hope JC recovers fully. Even if he does, he seems to be the only true point guard on the team.
Cadougan's our PG next year. I'm looking forward to watching him run this team.
Quote from: Norm on March 13, 2010, 01:10:40 PM
Not sure what this year did for his confidence.
This is a good point that hasn't been brought up before. He'll be fine, but he would have had a lot more confidence going into next season had he taken the redshirt.
Wouldn't be surprised to see a modified style of our offense next year with Cadougan running the point. Keeping the ball more in his hands to run things.
Quote from: DomJamesToTheBasket on March 13, 2010, 03:01:44 PM
This is a good point that hasn't been brought up before. He'll be fine, but he would have had a lot more confidence going into next season had he taken the redshirt.
Quite an assumption you are making. How do you figure that?
1) The fact that the redshirt was lifted is behind us. We don't know all the details behind the decision. Maybe Junior told Buzz, hey coach - I'm not going to stick in college for 5 years. Maybe he wanted to play this year, and medically was capable. Doesn't matter. He's here and Buzz has said he has been helpful. Enough for me.
2) We have not seen enough of Junior to be making judgments about how he will perform in the future. His injury was a MAJOR one. I tore my achilles tendon and had surgery. It is a long painful, hard working recovery and he did it ahead of schedule. He missed, I think Buzz ssaid, over 70 practices. Imagine that - and then get thrown in some BEast games for your first taste of D1 ball. How can we judge what he CAN do next year at this point THIS year, considering all of the above.
I say, let's let him get fully rehabbed, get the conditioning in place, work hard over the summer, get to practice with the team for all of the practices, then let's see how he does. He was highly recruited for a reason,
GO MARQUETTE! Post-Season is still happening. . .
Quote from: Daniel on March 13, 2010, 03:14:29 PM
We have not seen enough of Junior to be making judgments about how he will perform in the future. His injury was a MAJOR one. I tore my achilles tendon and had surgery. It is a long painful, hard working recovery and he did it ahead of schedule. He missed, I think Buzz ssaid, over 70 practices. Imagine that - and then get thrown in some BEast games for your first taste of D1 ball. How can we judge what he CAN do next year at this point THIS year, considering all of the above.
Agree, I don't think we've seen anything of Junior's full potential yet. This year might not have been huge in the confidence department but probably is a good wake up call as to what he needs to prepare for next year, especially absent the three seniors we'll lose after this season.
Just look to Butler for what a difference a summer makes. People on this board really like to jump to the worst case scenario with everything about this team, and I really don't get it. This team has given us no reason to. Next year everyone will be freaking out if Blue doesn't come out of the gate playing like Dominic James was in his senior year. Perspective, people. Patience.
I think some MU fans are not seeing the big picture about Junior burning his redshirt by playing this year. Due to Tom Crean never (and Deane/K.O to an extent) not being able to recruit back to back to back good classes - MU has always had a "scarity" view when it comes to these things, as though we won't be able to recruit another PG as good as Junior. It should be evident by now that Buzz can flat out recruit, and next year's team likely will be the deepest and most talented MU has seen in some time...We've not even had to think about how minutes would need to be distributed among our players for practically 10 years...next season, think about it..how will minutes be divided? Point is, to lose a player like Junior's "redshirt year," probably isn't as big of deal as it would have been historically.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on March 13, 2010, 03:09:02 PM
Quite an assumption you are making. How do you figure that?
In his first year he is sitting on the bench the whole game while career role players are playing until their legs give out.....not exactly a confidence builder.....especially when you figure in what everyone was thinking his potential impact coming in was. He had the potential to start his career next year as the starting PG, instead he started it as a guy that might get into a game for a couple of minutes......... "Quite an assumption".......more like common sense. He absolutely would have come into next season with more confidence had he taken the redshirt.
EDIT to say that I'm talking about Junior's confidence. Not my confidence in his ability.
The minutes he played this year at "BEAST speed" will make a big difference in how he approaches this summer and practice next fall.
He was able to spell Acker and a fresh Acker has been important to us getting several wins "by the skin of our teeth". How many of those do we lose without Cadougan spelling Acker?
I'm glad Cadougan got to play this season - the team will be better off for it, the next three years.
And there's always Smith, but we will be young and inexperienced at PG next year - no doubt about that.
Quote from: DomJamesToTheBasket on March 13, 2010, 03:29:20 PM
In his first year he is sitting on the bench the whole game while career role players are playing until their legs give out.....not exactly a confidence builder.....especially when you figure in what everyone was thinking his potential impact coming in was. He had the potential to start his career next year as the starting PG, instead he started it as a guy that might get into a game for a couple of minutes......... "Quite an assumption".......more like common sense. He absolutely would have come into next season with more confidence had he taken the redshirt.
EDIT to say that I'm talking about Junior's confidence. Not my confidence in his ability.
Hello...he is sitting on the bench because of the injury and the time he missed, not because of his overall ability. He is also on the bench because Acker and Cubillan have played so damn well.
Again, you are making baseless assumptions. Are you inside Junior's head? Have you talked to him in depth about this? I am willing to bet you haven't...so you know absolutely nothing about where his confidence is.
Dont say it is "common sense" because it isn't.
Its just as easy for me to say...that he will have MORE confidence going into next year because he got a taste of Big East competition. Frankly, nobody knows where his confidence is besides Junior, but my scenario is a hell of a lot more likely than yours.
GOMU we disagree and that is fine. I'm just defending my thought. If I attacked your thought, I apologize. Let's leave it now.
Quote from: tower912 on March 13, 2010, 02:06:34 PM
Look at how Buzz doled out minutes to Otule and Fulce when they returned from their injuries last year. Nada. The fact that Cadougan can miss 2/3 of the year (I am sure Buzz would say it is X practices), can come back from an injury that probably diminished some his explosiveness, and play minutes (granted, only a couple) every game says a lot. Buzz is finding JC minutes when he can't find EWill minutes. I predict Junior will be just fine.
Are you serious Tower912? Otule and Fulce both got more minutes last year than Cadougan got this year after their respective injuries.
Last years stat's for Fulce:
11 games, 62 minutes played, 5.6 minutes avg per game played, 6-12 from the field, including 0-2 from 3-point land, and 3-4 from the free throw stripe for 15 points and an average of 1.4 per game. Fulce also grabbed 12 rebounds (6 offensive), had 3 assists, 1 turnover, 2 steals, 1 block, and committed 13 fouls.
Last year's stats for Otule:
9 games, 60 minutes played, 6.7 minutes avg per game played, 4-11 from the field, no 3-point shots, 4-10 from the charity stripe, for 12 points and an average of 1.3 per game. Otule also hauled down 10 rebounds (5 offensive), had 0 assists, 6 turnovers, 0 steals, 5 blocks, and committed 9 fouls.
Now compare those numbers to Cadougan this year so far:
Cadougan played in 11 games with no starts (did not play in 3 other games he suited up for) for 46 minutes, averaging 4.2 minutes in games played.
He was 0-7 from the field, including 0-2 from 3-point land, and 4-6 from the free throw line, for a total of 4 points and 0.4 points per game.
He grabbed 5 rebounds (1 offensive), had 4 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers and committed 5 fouls.
Tower912, Fulce and Otule's minutes last year are better than Cadougan's this year, all 3 of which were hampered by injuries. By the way, Buzz also played Erik Williams 106 minutes thus far this year.
Quote from: slitheringviper on March 13, 2010, 02:42:54 PM
And how was he rewarded? Tanned Tommy left him in Milwaukee and took three freshmen to the BE Opening Presser. Imagine the shame Joe must have felt. He was a warrior, unlike his lily livered coach.
I imagine Joe's shame was nothing like that felt by Maurice Acker, who wasn't even invited back for his senior year until another player's injury caused his coach to rethink things.
If not inviting a senior to a pre-season press conference is a "lily livered" move, I'm just curious what would you call leaving a player off the roster altogether?
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 13, 2010, 09:43:31 PM
I imagine Joe's shame was nothing like that felt by Maurice Acker, who wasn't even invited back for his senior year until another player's injury caused his coach to rethink things.
If not inviting a senior to a pre-season press conference is a "lily livered" move, I'm just curious what would you call leaving a player off the roster altogether?
I think it's difficult for any of us to know the whole story of why Acker was not on the team, why Hazel transfered, etc. etc. Never quite know all of what happens.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 13, 2010, 09:43:31 PM
I imagine Joe's shame was nothing like that felt by Maurice Acker, who wasn't even invited back for his senior year until another player's injury caused his coach to rethink things.
If not inviting a senior to a pre-season press conference is a "lily livered" move, I'm just curious what would you call leaving a player off the roster altogether?
Ah not true... Acker came back to MU in late August... See Rosiak's August 29th blog post. Junior was injured in mid-September... The news came out on September 18th. Good one 84, :-\
[/quote]
Quote from: RJax55 on March 13, 2010, 10:14:20 PM
Ah not true... Acker came back to MU in late August... See Rosiak's August 29th blog post. Junior was injured in mid-September... The news came out on September 18th. Good one 84, :-\
Glad you posted this - I couldn't remember the dates, but thought that was the case. Also, like I said above, I do not think we know all the details.
I just wanna see him stroke the ball.
And I hope that game - in which he makes a difference - comes soon!
Quote from: AZWarrior on March 13, 2010, 03:30:10 PM
The minutes he played this year at "BEAST speed" will make a big difference in how he approaches this summer and practice next fall.
He was able to spell Acker and a fresh Acker has been important to us getting several wins "by the skin of our teeth". How many of those do we lose without Cadougan spelling Acker?
I'm glad Cadougan got to play this season - the team will be better off for it, the next three years.
Agree with you entirely on this. Additionally, *if* Acker/Cubillan (or both) were to go down to injury, where would that leave us? Frozena? Having someone play even more out of position?
He will be fine. He's got a long way to go, but as someone that had played zero minutes until the last month or two in the most competitive conference in the nation, making a judgment on him remains.
I hope he can be a Levance Fields type of player. He's done nothing to prove that, but he has the potential to be one. That falls into the trap of making comparisons to people/situations that are unique to a particular player/situation. He's his own player, and I think he'll find out where that lies and we will as well.
Let's also keep in mind that, according to reports, it was his decision to not redshirt, not MU's or Buzz's.
The initials alone are auspicious......JC.
Cadougan will be fine next year. The reason he's not playing is because, next to Hayward, Acker is our most invaluable player. When he leaves games, we're lost out there.
Cadougan is trying to do too much for now because he knows his minutes are limited. When he gets comfortable...which he will...I think he could be outstanding.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 14, 2010, 12:40:35 PM
The reason he's not playing is because, next to Hayward, Acker is our most invaluable player. When he leaves games, we're lost out there.
No one would ever have said this about Acker a year ago, maybe not even six months ago. (I agree completely, by the way, that Acker is invaluable.) So just wait and see what happens iwth Cadougan next year when he has to step up because Acker is gone...just like Acker did when James was gone.
I see people posting about how it's good Cadougan didn't redshirt because...
1. ...he got the minutes to get used to BEAST speed. You play the way you practice. I'm sure he gets plenty of game simulation in practice. Besides how much can 30 minutes over 11 games really help the guy?
2. ...he gives Acker a breather. He only comes in for 2-3 minutes at a time and he statistically has not been contributory in those minutes. In theory, we could get by putting in someone else for those 2-3 minutes and having Coobs or DJO bring up the ball so we could save the kid from losing an entire season.
3. ...he will learn from Acker and Cubillan. I think he could do this in practice and from the bench more than actually playing in the game.
Everyone, from what I read before, was really excited to have this kid on our team. Now, suddenly, after only seeing him play 30 minutes all season we can make judgments like he doesn't look in shape, can't keep up, doesn't show signs of brilliance, etc. How can opinions change so drastically? He has barely played. I really wish he wouldn't have wasted his redshirt this year and I think he will start at point next year...
Quote from: bilsu on March 13, 2010, 02:24:16 PM
To me it does not matter. Barring a major improvement he does not play next year anyways.
You may be right, it's impossible to know, but I think you're way off on this one. My guess is he starts.
Quote from: Ners on March 13, 2010, 03:26:19 PM
I think some MU fans are not seeing the big picture about Junior burning his redshirt by playing this year. Due to Tom Crean never (and Deane/K.O to an extent) not being able to recruit back to back to back good classes - MU has always had a "scarity" view when it comes to these things, as though we won't be able to recruit another PG as good as Junior. It should be evident by now that Buzz can flat out recruit, and next year's team likely will be the deepest and most talented MU has seen in some time...We've not even had to think about how minutes would need to be distributed among our players for practically 10 years...next season, think about it..how will minutes be divided? Point is, to lose a player like Junior's "redshirt year," probably isn't as big of deal as it would have been historically.
The reason we have to think about how minutes will be distributed next year is because there are so many question marks on the team--not because there are so many proven talented players or we have such depth.
Who's going to play 5? Well, given that we don't have a 5 on the roster, someone is going to have to play up. That begs the question--who's proven in his ability to play the 5? Butler? Fulce? Is anyone going to be as effective as Hayward? Who knows?
What about PG? We have two on the roster next year--Cadougan (47th RSCI) wasn't as highly rated as either James (36th RSCI) or Diener (40th RSCI), plus, he suffered a very serious injury. Smith is not ranked at a level you expect of a Big East starting calibre PG. We easily thought Diener would get 30+ mpg after his freshman year. We did that with DJ before he set foot on campus. Why don't we think that Cadougan will get those minutes? Because we haven't seen him come back from his injury yet. Why not Smith? Because non top-100 PGs generally don't get a lot of minutes their frosh season in the Big East.
Don't you think we should wait to see if Cadougan can surpass the PG ability of Diener or DJ (or that Reggie Smith is better than Acker) before you declare that Buzz is a better recruiter or had a deeper roster?
About the only thing you can say right now is that we have more depth at wing, although I would be hard pressed there is more talent. Blue, Butler, Jones, Byucks and Crowder would have to be VERY good to surpass Matthews, McNeal and Hayward. Not saying it won't happen, but I doubt you'll find very many takers if you argue that next year's class is already more talented.
Some of the haters need to really chill out. Where do I start....
1) JC is a freshmen and we have better options. Forget about what you have seen from JC, who would say Acker needs to take a seat and make way for JC. Acker is playing extremely high quality of basketball and I LOVE how JC is being introduced to Big East play. The team is not depending on him to make plays just to bring the ball up and not make mistakes.
2) JC is eating some humble pie... maybe but maybe not. Wouldn't you rather him eat that in a year that we don't depend on him than next year where we will need for him to come in and start. This kid is trying to make the pros. Something tells me that next season will start shortly after the end of this season for JC. I think JC is not stupid. He knows he needs a good off season to get up to speed.
3) If you keep your eyes on the stat then you're going to think JC is a bust. If you watch him, you can see some potential. That drive was really nice and I can see good things. Buzz has a tight lease on players. He had one on Butler last season and he has one on Buycks and JC this season. I always pay special attention on JC when he is on the floor, and I see tons of upside.
Everyone just needs to stop writing kids off when they only see the kid play for a total of 20 minutes.