I love what Buzz is doing recruiting wise,but it is unreal when you hear Georgetown has 4 McDonals AA's.Man,we get excitited when a potential AA has interest in coming hear.Were doing great with the players that are coming here
We need bigs, and why can't we recruit McDonald's All Americans? After all, We are...Marquette!
Wasn't Doc Rivers our last McDonald's AA? That's 30 years ago.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 12, 2010, 08:11:56 PM
We need bigs, and why can't we recruit McDonald's All Americans? After all, We are...Marquette!
We're just not high profile enough yet. And AA's are used to winning....and they want to keep that going in college. I had no idea that the last tournament we won was in 97 (gulp).
A majority of teams in the Big East are drawing McDonald AA's. Problem is, it's nearly impossible to draw that kind of talent to Milwaukee, WI, and to make things more difficult, the midwest doesn't produce very many and when they do they're recruited hard by the best programs in the country. Recruiting is a tough business.
Quote from: 6kings on March 12, 2010, 08:09:53 PM
I love what Buzz is doing recruiting wise,but it is unreal when you hear Georgetown has 4 McDonals AA's.Man,we get excitited when a potential AA has interest in coming hear.Were doing great with the players that are coming here
Whats more...the team we beat last night has 5 McDonalds All American
Dominic Cheek (2009)
Malik Wayans (2009)
Corey Stokes (2007)
Taylor King (2007)
Scottie Reynolds (2006)
wow. I knew Nova was loaded, but FIVE? That's Duke-like.
GT's three starting guards are from three different high schools in the Washington Catholic Athletic Conference. That's a league with nationally ranked schools like DeMatha. It's a huge advantage when you have that kind of talent right at your front door.
We do have Chicago right below us, if you have a very good recruiter you can get them here.
Especially since we're the closest (legit) Big East team to Chicago.
Quote from: ecompt on March 12, 2010, 08:25:57 PM
wow. I knew Nova was loaded, but FIVE? That's Duke-like.
They will have 5 next year too...Replacing Scottie Reynolds with former MU target JayVaughn Pinkston (assuming he qualifies)
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on March 12, 2010, 08:21:34 PM
A majority of teams in the Big East are drawing McDonald AA's. Problem is, it's nearly impossible to draw that kind of talent to Milwaukee, WI, and to make things more difficult, the midwest doesn't produce very many and when they do they're recruited hard by the best programs in the country. Recruiting is a tough business.
I don't live in Milwaukee but the "recruits won't come to Milwaukee" argument is lame. Louisville, Cincy, Villanova are all located in cities that are nothing to write home about. St Johns is located in the Big Apple but doesn't seem to attract MAAs. My point is that recruits will go to where the program and coach is and secondarily they are worried about the city. It is only a matter of time before Buzz signs one up.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 12, 2010, 08:27:57 PM
We do have Chicago right below us, if you have a very good recruiter you can get them here.
Especially since we're the closest (legit) Big East team to Chicago.
Chicago isn't what it used to be.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 12, 2010, 08:47:53 PM
Chicago isn't what it used to be.
Its not so much that as it is kids being recruited to the east coast to play at prep schools. The great ones head east (Caron Butler) these days. It used to not be that way.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on March 12, 2010, 08:50:49 PM
Its not so much that as it is kids being recruited to the east coast to play at prep schools. The great ones head east (Caron Butler) these days. It used to not be that way.
You know that Caron was from WI, and that happened over 10 years ago, right?
Quote from: 6kings on March 12, 2010, 08:09:53 PM
I love what Buzz is doing recruiting wise,but it is unreal when you hear Georgetown has 4 McDonals AA's.Man,we get excitited when a potential AA has interest in coming hear.Were doing great with the players that are coming here
I hope you typed this when you were drunk. Hear instead of here? Were instead of we're? Admittedly I am a bit OCD but c'mon. If you went to Marquette and took an English class I will be the first to write you a letter of recommendation to refund your money...
Can I just throw this out there:
Who cares if we don't get McDs AAs? They may be the best 24 players in the country but is there anything wrong with landing players 25- +/-100?
Another argument could be made that 17 out of the 24 players from the 2006 McDonalds All American Class, and 12 from the 2007 class are now in the pros. Why not just recruit great players that will play all four years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_All-American_Game
North Carolina has 8 "AA's". What's there record? ;)
How many pickles would you like to wager that they won't be 16-16 next year?
C'mon man! One bad year and now they aren't an elite program.Really??
Look at the BIG piture.
I would just like a healthy Otule next year and one decent 6'9" glass eater with a 'tude!
Quote from: 6kings on March 12, 2010, 09:22:47 PM
How many pickles would you like to wager that they won't be 16-16 next year?
C'mon man! One bad year and now they aren't an elite program.Really??
Look at the BIG piture.
Got to agree, they won the national tournament last year looking like a NBA team against a JUCO. And lets see a couple of years before that they won it again. But seriously, I think Marquette is recruiting quality players under Buzz. Clearly Marquette can compete. Our last two highly recruited big men, Trevor and Jeronne turned out to be cases.
Quote from: 6kings on March 12, 2010, 09:22:47 PM
How many pickles would you like to wager that they won't be 16-16 next year?
C'mon man! One bad year and now they aren't an elite program.Really??
Look at the BIG piture.
North Carolina is an elite program. I never said it wasn't. You are talking about getting All Americans and I can only assume your rationale for that is you believe the more All Americans we have, the better we will be? NC has 8 of them and is .500. I'm saying having All Americans doesn't always equate to wins and I provided an example. C'mon man! If you are going to argue against me, at least stay on topic...
It doesn't make sense to you,that the more talent you have,the better your team should be?OK,I guess we aren't on the same page here.I can see why you would be upset if these kind of kids wanted to come play here.Buzz should just look the other way.
SHOULD be...
Kerry Trotter was our last Mcdonalds All American.
We need to get bigger. Everyone knows it including Buzz.
The kids don't have to be 5 star recruits. Plenty of kids who were not 5 star studs make it to the NBA.
You just have to find them and get lucky once in awhile.
Sultan - please explain why Chicago isn't what it used to be ?
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on March 12, 2010, 08:21:34 PM
A majority of teams in the Big East are drawing McDonald AA's. Problem is, it's nearly impossible to draw that kind of talent to Milwaukee, WI, and to make things more difficult, the midwest doesn't produce very many and when they do they're recruited hard by the best programs in the country. Recruiting is a tough business.
This is a crock. Milwaukee has as much to offer as Syracuse, N.Y. or UCONN etc. I get tired of excuses of why we cannopt recruit top notch talent. We are in the best conference, have a strong basketball tradition (three final fours and so on). Excuses are like opinions--everyone has them.
Quote from: coach85 on March 13, 2010, 12:57:22 AM
Sultan - please explain why Chicago isn't what it used to be ?
It is my impression that the %-age of top talent isn't from Chicago like it was a generation or more ago. I'm not saying its bad, just that the talent is more wide-spread.
There was a debate about this on WSCR when it comes to the DePaul coaching search. Everyone is under the impression that all you have to do is keep "Chicago kids in Chicago," when to build a good program, they are going to have to do more than that.
I guess I could go back and look at the top 100 for the last 20 years or so, but I don't have the time for that right now.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 13, 2010, 06:41:38 AM
This is a crock. Milwaukee has as much to offer as Syracuse, N.Y. or UCONN etc. I get tired of excuses of why we cannot recruit top notch talent. We are in the best conference, have a strong basketball tradition (three final fours and so on). Excuses are like opinions--everyone has them.
....and like it or not, we are not viewed nationally as being on the same level as UConn or Syracuse. I understand that we don't like it or don't want to admit it, or we want to rationalize that Milwaukee is nicer than Syracuse, but until we're viewed as an elite program, we are not consistently going to get the same talent-level kids.
Buzz and his staff will have to work doubly hard to land top talent, and even then, we won't have the depth of the elites. We can be a final four team again, but we will not be a final four contender every year unless we do something unethical.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 13, 2010, 06:41:38 AM
This is a crock. Milwaukee has as much to offer as Syracuse, N.Y. or UCONN etc. I get tired of excuses of why we cannopt recruit top notch talent. We are in the best conference, have a strong basketball tradition (three final fours and so on). Excuses are like opinions--everyone has them.
The difference is that in Syracuse, NY they have a Hall of Fame coach. Same for at UCONN.
When you're a talented big and you have a few years to put your skills in the spotlight to try and win the lottery and make the NBA, more than likely you're going to go and play for someone that has the history of putting that type of player into the NBA.
It becomes a cycle that's tough to break. MU needs to get one guy that they can get to attend and put into the NBA, but I don't blame these kids for wanting to attend a school with a coach that has a long track record of doing that. I don't think it has anything to do with Milwaukee vs Syracuse or Storrs.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 13, 2010, 07:00:57 AM
It is my impression that the %-age of top talent isn't from Chicago like it was a generation or more ago. I'm not saying its bad, just that the talent is more wide-spread.
There was a debate about this on WSCR when it comes to the DePaul coaching search. Everyone is under the impression that all you have to do is keep "Chicago kids in Chicago," when to build a good program, they are going to have to do more than that.
I guess I could go back and look at the top 100 for the last 20 years or so, but I don't have the time for that right now.
You don't need to do that, all those tabulations have already been done by the staff of statsheet.com:
http://statsheet.com/bhsb/recruits_by_state
Illinois, despite perhaps not being what it once was, is still 4th in terms of the # of Top 100 kids produced since 1998. Of course that's counting the whole state, not just the Chicago area, but out of the 62 Top 100 players in the last decade and change only 7 of them aren't from Chicago.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2010, 11:23:04 AM
The difference is that in Syracuse, NY they have a Hall of Fame coach. Same for at UCONN.
When you're a talented big and you have a few years to put your skills in the spotlight to try and win the lottery and make the NBA, more than likely you're going to go and play for someone that has the history of putting that type of player into the NBA.
I know he wasn't a "big" but Wade didn't need a HOF coach to make it. In fact, he had a really sh!tty coach and STILL made it. Shaq (LSU - Dale Brown), Tim Duncan (Wake Forest - Skip Prosser), Chris Bosh (Georgia Tech - Paul Hewitt), Yao (China), Dwight Howard (no college): These are some of the most elite big men in the NBA and I wouldn't say any of their college coaches are "known" for producing NBA big men. I understand what you are saying but is there ANY college coach "known" for producing NBA caliber post players? They are pretty hard to come by...
Quote from: The Pickle on March 13, 2010, 12:26:09 PM
I know he wasn't a "big" but Wade didn't need a HOF coach to make it. In fact, he had a really sh!tty coach and STILL made it. Shaq (LSU - Dale Brown), Tim Duncan (Wake Forest - Skip Prosser), Chris Bosh (Georgia Tech - Paul Hewitt), Yao (China), Dwight Howard (no college): These are some of the most elite big men in the NBA and I wouldn't say any of their college coaches are "known" for producing NBA big men. I understand what you are saying but is there ANY college coach "known" for producing NBA caliber post players? They are pretty hard to come by...
It was actually Dave Odom that coached Tim Duncan @ Wake.
I think you need to look deeper into those guys histories before you can say they weren't known for producing NBA caliber big men.
Dale Brown was known for getting big men to the NBA, that's part of the reason Shaq ended up going there. Brown had a run where 4 of his 5 starting centers were first round picks in the NBA, John Williams, Stanley Roberts, Shaq, and Geert Hammink.
Same thing for Dave Odom(he's the one that coached Duncan, not Prosser). Darius Songaila made it to the NBA, Loren Woods made the NBA, Rodney Rodgers made the NBA, Duncan made the NBA.
Hewitt, since he's been there has put Bosh and Luke Schenscher into the NBA, and after this year he'll likely have Favors and Gani Lawal as well.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on March 13, 2010, 12:44:44 PM
It was actually Dave Odom that coached Tim Duncan @ Wake.
No sh!t? You are right. Thanks.
Quote from: bma725 on March 13, 2010, 01:00:02 PM
I think you need to look deeper into those guys histories before you can say they weren't known for producing NBA caliber big men.
Dale Brown was known for getting big men to the NBA, that's part of the reason Shaq ended up going there. Brown had a run where 4 of his 5 starting centers were first round picks in the NBA, John Williams, Stanley Roberts, Shaq, and Geert Hammink.
Same thing for Dave Odom(he's the one that coached Duncan, not Prosser). Darius Songaila made it to the NBA, Loren Woods made the NBA, Rodney Rodgers made the NBA, Duncan made the NBA.
Hewitt, since he's been there has put Bosh and Luke Schenscher into the NBA, and after this year he'll likely have Favors and Gani Lawal as well.
Do you think all those guys made it because of the college coach's coaching or the coach's ability to recruit guys who had immense talent?
Replace Benford with Ernie Kent.
We have no bigs for Benford to coach anyway.
Syracuse has no mcdonalds all Americans this year.
Quote from: The Pickle on March 13, 2010, 12:26:09 PM
I understand what you are saying but is there ANY college coach "known" for producing NBA caliber post players? They are pretty hard to come by...
How about Calhoun? Sure, some of his bigs were already solid players coming into college but not all of them. Thabeet sucked his first two years. Calhoun has had a nice run (Okafor, Boone, Thabeet, Oriakhi).
And I just learned that Boeheim has an assistant coach (Bernie Fine) that has been with him for over 30 years. His job is to develop the low post players (Seikely, Coleman, Wallace, Warrick, Etan Thomas, Onuaku, Rick Jackson, and Feb Melo (next year). So, there's two examples in the BE alone.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 13, 2010, 07:00:57 AM
There was a debate about this on WSCR when it comes to the DePaul coaching search. Everyone is under the impression that all you have to do is keep "Chicago kids in Chicago," when to build a good program, they are going to have to do more than that.
Well, right off the top of my head, Sharron Collins, Jacob Pullen, Evan Turner, John Scheyer, Demetry McCamey, Will Walker, John Shurna. I'm sure there are more as well.
That doesn't seem like it would be a bad team, probably too short for everyone on this board, but I'd take it.
Quote from: buckchuckler on March 13, 2010, 04:06:37 PM
Well, right off the top of my head, Sharron Collins, Jacob Pullen, Evan Turner, John Scheyer, Demetry McCamey, Will Walker, John Shurna. I'm sure there are more as well.
That doesn't seem like it would be a bad team, probably too short for everyone on this board, but I'd take it.
Dont forget Derrick Rose.
Billy Shakesphere pondered on his blog awhile back "A bag full of MacDonald All Americans does not always a Happy Meal make" Examples: UConn and North Carolina
My sense of Buzz after 2 years is he thrives on players who need to prove something because he's the type of guy who can show them how to do just that.
But,defiantly, they got to get bigger
Collins is the only one on that list from a Chicago Public School. The big problem there. like MPS, is that the kids can't qualify for a D-1 Scholarship.
Sorry, I didn't know that suburbs and private schools don't count :-\
But when people talk about "recruiting Chicago" do they mean Chicago Public Schools, or the Chicago Area?
Seems pretty weak.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 13, 2010, 03:11:12 PM
Replace Benford with Ernie Kent.
We have no bigs for Benford to coach anyway.
Let me guess, you think Kent would do a better job of recruiting Chicago. You do realize that his recruiting of that area is almost solely because of a connection to Worldwide Wes that no longer exists once he's out of the job at Oregon, right? Those high profile kids are still going to go to Oregon because it's Phil Knight's baby, and Wes needs Phil to be happy.
We're not getting the AA's, but we are getting TALENT. With time I think Buzz will bring in the most acclaimed guys since Al, but the most important thing is bringing in impact players and Buzz is doing it. The fact remains that we aren't a program that will bring in the absolute best......that's where crackerjack scouting comes in......who else was in on Jimmy and DJO??? EVERY team in the country could use them.
AA's don't equal success all the time, just look at North Carolina this year. Stock full of AA kids and yet their biggest problem is they can't play together. Buzz does a good job getting players that work in his system.
Quote from: DCWarriors04 on March 13, 2010, 09:56:35 PM
AA's don't equal success all the time, just look at North Carolina this year. Stock full of AA kids and yet their biggest problem is they can't play together. Buzz does a good job getting players that work in his system.
I'd rather have AAs than not have them.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 14, 2010, 09:14:20 AM
I'd rather have AAs than not have them.
Even if their being at Marquette doesn't equate to more wins? I bet that's what all the NC fans are saying this year. Hey, we may only be 16-16 but at least we have 8 All Americans.
I want high character, talented players who are willing to work hard. If they have the talent (i.e. all americans) but don't have character, are not willing to buy into the system, or are only out for themselves, let them go somewhere else. They are not college basketball players, but look at guys like Milton Bradley and Terrell Owens, all the talent in the world but absolute cancers to their teams.
Would I like all americans? Yes. But only if they are high character and fit the system. I'm off my soap box...