Awful, stinky, horrible job from Buzz in the last minute or so of regulation. ND gets a couple of looks at the tying 3 pt shot with no thought of fouling early from Buzz (Bray knows what he's doing, though). And down 3, Buzz has DJO try to make both FT's, instead of making the first and trying to miss the second, which was the only real chance to tie the game.
Maybe the most costly play was not calling a timeout on the last possession for MU in regulation where Lazar just heaved a 3 pt shot for no reason when MU was all disoriented on offense.
HA! Um, no.
Buzz may have drawn up the plays but it's up to the players to execute on the play or their instincts.
When you're talking about missing a FT on purpose as a chance, you don't really have a good one.
I've been saying this for two years.
Buzz is clearly a great recruiter and an outstanding motivator. But he's just not a good game coach.
And what was the Cubillan half court shot at the end? Was that actually drawn up?
this is a stupid thread. wow. I hate to even think about the stuff that would be said about him had we finished 12th in conference.
Quote from: gumbyandpokey on March 06, 2010, 03:27:29 PM
And down 3, Buzz has DJO try to make both FT's, instead of making the first and trying to miss the second, which was the only real chance to tie the game.
Maybe the most costly play was not calling a timeout on the last possession for MU in regulation where Lazar just heaved a 3 pt shot for no reason when MU was all disoriented on offense.
I agree that DJO should have intentionally missed the 2nd FT, but the 3 Lazar took, if I recall correctly, was with the shot clock under 5...
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on March 06, 2010, 03:29:11 PM
HA! Um, no.
Buzz may have drawn up the plays but it's up to the players to execute on the play or their instincts.
When you're talking about missing a FT on purpose as a chance, you don't really have a good one.
No, it's not a good chance, but it's the only chance you have. Especially when it appears the next option was a half court heave from Cubillan!
But foul ND before they even get a 3 pt shot off (like the smart ND coach did to MU) and you win the game. But not Buzz Williams...
Quote from: gumbyandpokey on March 06, 2010, 03:31:22 PM
And what was the Cubillan half court shot at the end? Was that actually drawn up?
We had to get off a three before ND had a chance to foul. Unlike us, they're willing to give up two when they're up by three.
Quote from: jaygall31 on March 06, 2010, 03:31:55 PM
this is a stupid thread. wow. I hate to even think about the stuff that would be said about him had we finished 12th in conference.
I'd bet there would be far less hating if we'd finished where everyone thought we were going to. About halfway through January I realized I was watching this year's games with the expectations of last year's team. This game sucked, it was disappointing but on to the BET. This has still been the most exciting season of MU ball I've seen, maybe ever. Last year was definitely entertaining but this year has been one pleasant surprise after another, with a few disappointments in between.
And by the way, I agree - this is a stupid thread.
we just didn't need it as bad... the seniors played horrible.
Buzz decided just like the Depaul game not to foul... if Lazar hade made the second of the 1 and 1 we wouldn't be having this conversation...
Quote from: gumbyandpokey on March 06, 2010, 03:33:52 PM
No, it's not a good chance, but it's the only chance you have. Especially when it appears the next option was a half court heave from Cubillan!
But foul ND before they even get a 3 pt shot off (like the smart ND coach did to MU) and you win the game. But not Buzz Williams...
If you're hoping to win on that...with no control WHERE the ball goes...get ready to resign yourself for a loss.
Miracles happen...but I'd not look at that instance for a miracle rather look at the bad and/or quick shots and the wasted opportunities we had.
Quote from: Tribby on March 06, 2010, 03:29:49 PM
I've been saying this for two years.
Buzz is clearly a great recruiter and an outstanding motivator. But he's just not a good game coach.
And where the F_CK have you been all year? Didn't see any snide posts after we won 3 OT games on the road? Have you also been saying all year that this team would go 11-7 in the Big East this year? Don't think so. Are you Gumby's, Pokey by chance?
We finished with 11 wins in a reloading year...
We held ND to 51 points in regulation. We got tons of open shots. The game plan was solid. The shots just did not fall.
I really don't see the bad game coaching by Buzz. We can have a post like this after any loss I guess.
Quote from: Ners on March 06, 2010, 04:10:53 PM
And where the F_CK have you been all year? Didn't see any snide posts after we won 3 OT games on the road? Have you also been saying all year that this team would go 11-7 in the Big East this year? Don't think so. Are you Gumby's, Pokey by chance?
This team exceeded my expectations, absolutely. That's in spite of our head coach, not because of him. He's cost us at least as many losses as he's gained us wins, easily.
I get that people here want him to succeed so badly that they're willing to delude themselves into thinking we've got some amazing coach. We don't. What we have is a guy who gets 100% effort out of his players, but who can't game manage.
I'm so tired of gumby and pokey's negative attitude........ignore button in 3...2....1...
Quote from: Tribby on March 06, 2010, 04:29:52 PM
This team exceeded my expectations, absolutely. That's in spite of our head coach, not because of him. He's cost us at least as many losses as he's gained us wins, easily.
I get that people here want him to succeed so badly that they're willing to delude themselves into thinking we've got some amazing coach. We don't. What we have is a guy who gets 100% effort out of his players, but who can't game manage.
You my friend are an idiot. "This team exceeded my expectations, absolutely - that's in spite of our head coach, not because of him?" So a team can exceed your expectations, but in our case, we have been crippled by our head coach who gets 100% effort out of his players? Ironic that Buzz Williams has been mentioned as a National Coach of the Year Candidate/Big East Coach of the Year candidate...but you're right..he can't "game manage."
Quote from: Ners on March 06, 2010, 04:42:29 PM
You my friend are an idiot. "This team exceeded my expectations, absolutely - that's in spite of our head coach, not because of him?" So a team can exceed your expectations, but in our case, we have been crippled by our head coach who gets 100% effort out of his players? Ironic that Buzz Williams has been mentioned as a National Coach of the Year Candidate/Big East Coach of the Year candidate...but you're right..he can't "game manage."
Mrs. Williams, will you please stop this cheerleading?
Buzz has done a great job this season, no one will question that. But to not foul at the end of regulation is just not a good call. It seems like an easy call to me
Quote from: gumbyandpokey on March 06, 2010, 04:44:21 PM
Mrs. Williams, will you please stop this cheerleading?
I feel for you dude. You are one miserable individual. Sorry life hasn't worked out for you the way you would have liked, but I'm sure you are squarely responsible for your current station in life. Look no further than the mirror, when asking yourself, "Why does my life suck?"
I'm just baffled by this Topic. As someone said, The gameplan was solid, the shots didn't fall.
No one wants to lose, obviously. But when we lose, is a topic like this necessary.
Is it really Buzz's fault the shots didn't fall? the GOOD shots?
One thing I know for sure about Buzz, he can walk it out...
Quote from: Tribby on March 06, 2010, 04:29:52 PM
This team exceeded my expectations, absolutely. That's in spite of our head coach, not because of him. He's cost us at least as many losses as he's gained us wins, easily.
I get that people here want him to succeed so badly that they're willing to delude themselves into thinking we've got some amazing coach. We don't. What we have is a guy who gets 100% effort out of his players, but who can't game manage.
Sorry that Buzz and the team has kept you under that rock all year. Why don't you crawl back under it.
Quote from: gumbyandpokey on March 06, 2010, 03:27:29 PM
Awful, stinky, horrible job from Buzz in the last minute or so of regulation. ND gets a couple of looks at the tying 3 pt shot with no thought of fouling early from Buzz (Bray knows what he's doing, though). And down 3, Buzz has DJO try to make both FT's, instead of making the first and trying to miss the second, which was the only real chance to tie the game.
Maybe the most costly play was not calling a timeout on the last possession for MU in regulation where Lazar just heaved a 3 pt shot for no reason when MU was all disoriented on offense.
I have learned in my time on this earth that some people just love to talk--and most of those are fools.
You have no basis for your claim and I could use about 1,298 adjectives to explain your thought process but I won't use any. I will kindly direct you to look to the left and notice MU at 5th place. There is no way that MU is in that position without ALL of the components of this team.
Worst Thread Ever. We lost a close game yes but I for one did not think we would be where we are today in November. 24 Hours Rule is in effect.
Funny. After a loss the "game coach haters" come out of the woodwork. Not many complaining about his game coaching abilities with the 3 OT wins, and the last 9 uut of 10 victories.
Really. There are times we all think we know better than the coach. We should keep it to ourselves.
Quote from: Daniel on March 06, 2010, 07:35:08 PM
Funny. After a loss the "game coach haters" come out of the woodwork. Not many complaining about his game coaching abilities with the 3 OT wins, and the last 9 uut of 10 victories.
Really. There are times we all think we know better than the coach. We should keep it to ourselves.
No doubt.
All the people hating on Buzz for not fouling before NDs three should think about this. Lets say we foul, they make 1, intentionally miss the 2nd(like many others are complaining about), get their own rebound, and put it back in to tie the game anyways. Then you would bitch about Buzz fouling in the first place. Maybe you should all just remain fans and leave the coaching to the coaches.
gumbyandpokey, considering that every post you make is about how bad Buzz is (unless it is about how bad Fr. Wild is), your sheer lack of posts disproves your central thesis.
Buzz's coaching was good during most of the game. Except when he gets a little too animated when unfortunate things happen. (Example the T). Buzz's worst coaching of the game came in the OT. With i believe around a minute and a half and 3 TO left we jacked up three consecutive shots from beyond the arc. After getting the offensive rebound on the first miss, Buzz needed to call TO and set up a play or tell his men to take the ball to the hoop instead of jacking up 3's. Plenty of time left to win/tie the game.
Buzz's biggest learning curve as he moves forward is learning when to call TO's Effectively. He seems to be getting better, but still has some work to do.
Quote from: bluegold0608 on March 06, 2010, 10:21:01 PM
All the people hating on Buzz for not fouling before NDs three should think about this. Lets say we foul, they make 1, intentionally miss the 2nd(like many others are complaining about), get their own rebound, and put it back in to tie the game anyways. Then you would bitch about Buzz fouling in the first place. Maybe you should all just remain fans and leave the coaching to the coaches.
What you've written is exactly why you foul in that spot. Look at all that has to happen correctly for ND to tie the game. They have to make the first FT. They have to miss the second FT. They have to get the rebound. Then the have to score another basket.
Doing all of those is much more difficult that making a single 3 pt shot, imo.
Brey owned Buzz in the coaching dept yesterday.
Quote from: gumbyandpokey on March 07, 2010, 08:38:15 AM
What you've written is exactly why you foul in that spot. Look at all that has to happen correctly for ND to tie the game. They have to make the first FT. They have to miss the second FT. They have to get the rebound. Then the have to score another basket.
Doing all of those is much more difficult that making a single 3 pt shot, imo.
Brey owned Buzz in the coaching dept yesterday.
That's an awful example.
Foul with more than ten seconds. Abromitas hits both. They foul before we get ball in, no time is run off. We miss the first free throw of a one and one. They have ten seconds down by one. I'll take ten seconds up by three over ten seconds up by one anyday. I'll make them get lucky bounce and then a three point make at the end of reg to tie before they get ten seconds to hit any shot to win.
Quote from: gumbyandpokey on March 07, 2010, 08:38:15 AM
Doing all of those is much more difficult that making a single 3 pt shot, imo.
Brey owned Buzz in the coaching dept yesterday.
Brey owned Buzz because he fouled at the end? Is that what you are saying? Or are you talking all game? Because I would object to both.
You cannot look at what ND did in OT with the same perspective as what MU did at the end of Reg. They are not identical situations, in fact they are not even SIMILAR situations. Things are not black and white. Only a feeble mind like yours would believe so. Go eat some Crumb Cake and shut the He** up.
Buzz really can't help it if the two senior guards went out with more of fizzle than a Bang. Cooby and Mo really struggled yesterday.
Buzz also can't help it that the team went 4-23 from beyond the arch. Had we hit our season average 8/23-ish, people like gumby would be praising the team for their win and how great it was for seniors to go out on top.
Buzz also can't help it that the team went 4-23 from beyond the arch. Had we hit our season average 8/23-ish, people like gumby would be praising the team for their win and how great it was for seniors to go out on top.
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But dont you think that its Buzz's job to make the adjustment to his players and tell them to take the ball to the hole when they aren't shooting so hot. Instead, of shooting 3/4 of your possessions in overtime from beyod the arc???
Quote from: Daniel on March 06, 2010, 07:35:08 PM
Funny. After a loss the "game coach haters" come out of the woodwork. Not many complaining about his game coaching abilities with the 3 OT wins, and the last 9 uut of 10 victories.
Really. There are times we all think we know better than the coach. We should keep it to ourselves.
+1
Buzz is learning. Remember this is his first year here and look what he has accomplished. i am giving him some slack.
Quote from: bluegold0608 on March 06, 2010, 10:21:01 PM
All the people hating on Buzz for not fouling before NDs three should think about this. Lets say we foul, they make 1, intentionally miss the 2nd(like many others are complaining about), get their own rebound, and put it back in to tie the game anyways. Then you would bitch about Buzz fouling in the first place. Maybe you should all just remain fans and leave the coaching to the coaches.
That's the chance you take. Do you let a guy hit a 3 pointer...only one thing has to happen.
Or, do you make him sink a free throw (1 thing), miss a free throw (2nd thing), get a rebound (3rd thing), make a basket (4th thing).
A lot more has to go right. Of course, time on the clock determines whether you do this strategy or not.
As far as leaving the "coaching to the coaches", there are many coaches that would foul in that situation. One of them was there yesterday, his name was Mike Brey and he did exactly that at the end of the game.
Look, there are two philosophies on this, but the fouling philosophy certainly isn't some ludicrous out of left field tact. It's employed by many coaches. That's all anyone is saying.
It's ok, critiquing a coach isn't a bad thing, we seemed to be able to do it all the time with the previous coach but with the current one we can't without being called out. Strange.
Quote from: Marq on March 07, 2010, 11:25:20 AM
Buzz also can't help it that the team went 4-23 from beyond the arch. Had we hit our season average 8/23-ish, people like gumby would be praising the team for their win and how great it was for seniors to go out on top.
But dont you think that its Buzz's job to make the adjustment to his players and tell them to take the ball to the hole when they aren't shooting so hot. Instead, of shooting 3/4 of your possessions in overtime from beyod the arc???
If We scored 60 points and only have 12 coming from beyond three where the hell do you think our points where coming from? Buzz made the adjustments. We did great scoring inside the paint. But why wouldn't you still want to take an open look from 3 considering we're a 40% team?