Don't know if anyone saw it, in the heat of the moment, midway through second half after a controversial call. It looked like he heard something he did not like from one of our elderly, well-heeled major donors sitting on the floor. Higgins runs across the floor and whines to Nasiapolous and points to these well-"Wheeled" fans. Nas runs around, grabs an usher and chastises the major donors sitting on the floor. Higgins is watching the whole thing transpire while supposedly officiating the game and doing the ten second count. Later at a time out Nas goes up to Higgins presumably telling them that he handled it, and Higgy looks pretty pleased with himself. Later an MU suit is over there trying to appease these major donor, courtside fans. Higgy clearly listens to the crowd and seems highly sensitive. Gotta love the little goings-on that happen around the game.
I saw this as well, was wondering what he was going over to the end of the scorer's table for at first, and followed the guys to where they ended up in the stands. Even more reason Higgins is a total piece of work.
I was right there. A kid stood up (sitting courtside) after a bad no-call by TH. Apparently, he got too close to TH and TH got pissed. He stared him down for five seconds while play was going on!!! Seriously, five seconds. Then another good three seconds when the possession changed. In the timeout an usher came up, but the kid had been talked to by his parents or someone else there and all was settled. All the fans around us were yelling at TH to watch the damn game and stop staring at this kid who was anywhere from 17-21 years old. He just flat out loves himself and was trying to act macho to a kid! I was sitting next to a L'ville fan who was equally appalled.
Also, HILARIOUS that he called an elbow violation on Lazar, but no foul. The first time that has been called in the history of bball?
At the 2008 Big East Tournament, Tim Higgins ejected the eagle from a game but never followed up on it.
The guy next to that big time donor is his grandson and thankfully since he's got such good seats he lets opposing players and refs hear him. Not only was Higgins getting yelled at so was Jerry Smith.
If they were sitting on the floor, I have to say, I have no problem with this. People sitting on the same surface, mere inches from the refs and players should be held to a different standard (and I assume as much is communicated to them).
Higgy always tries to make important the most important player in the game. Incompetent, stubborn, clueless.
Quote from: MU1984 on March 02, 2010, 11:47:38 PM
Also, HILARIOUS that he called an elbow violation on Lazar, but no foul. The first time that has been called in the history of bball?
I think he called a five second violation.
Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 03, 2010, 08:10:03 AM
I think he called a five second violation.
Then he had a Costanza twitch in his arm, cause he was signaling the Lazar extended elbow as a violation.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 03, 2010, 08:05:07 AM
If they were sitting on the floor, I have to say, I have no problem with this. People sitting on the same surface, mere inches from the refs and players should be held to a different standard (and I assume as much is communicated to them).
I don't disagree and the kid most likely went "over the line", but TH should take it up with the proper officials when PLAY IS STOPPED. He was staring him down mid-play and for a long time. If TH thought it was that bad, then blow the whistle, stop play, and go talk to BC security. He obviously didn't and was trying to be Timmy Hardcore. I guess it really doesn't matter. Even when he is watching the game, we're still playing with two refs.
Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 03, 2010, 08:10:03 AM
I think he called a five second violation.
Buzz talked about it post-game. TH's explanation to Buzz was that Lazar didn't make contact with the elbow swing, thus being a "violation" and not a foul. If contact was made, then it would be a foul. Now, this is all according to St. Higgins. Buzz said he thought it was Lazar's 3rd foul and then one of his assistants pointed out that no foul was called, just a violation and Lazar stayed in the game out of the timeout. Buzz made it clear that he had never heard of this "violation" before and both Homer and Mac reiterated that in their decades of watching basketball this was a first.
Higgins needs to hang them up.
Quote from: MU1984 on March 03, 2010, 08:15:13 AM
Buzz talked about it post-game. TH's explanation to Buzz was that Lazar didn't make contact with the elbow swing, thus being a "violation" and not a foul. If contact was made, then it would be a foul. Now, this is all according to St. Higgins. Buzz said he thought it was Lazar's 3rd foul and then one of his assistants pointed out that no foul was called, just a violation and Lazar stayed in the game out of the timeout. Buzz made it clear that he had never heard of this "violation" before and both Homer and Mac reiterated that in their decades of watching basketball this was a first.
Higgins needs to hang them up.
Of course they hadn't seen it before, it's a new rule from the NCAA for this year. Higgins was absolutely correct in his call.
Quote from: bma725 on March 03, 2010, 08:18:04 AM
Of course they hadn't seen it before, it's a new rule from the NCAA for this year. Higgins was absolutely correct in his call.
Not only had they not seen it, but they made it very clear that they had never HEARD of it.
Quote from: MU1984 on March 03, 2010, 08:24:59 AM
Not only had they not seen it, but they made it very clear that they had never HEARD of it.
Then that's poor research on their part. The elbow rule was in the new rulebook the NCAA issued before the season. They were at least aware of the points of emphasis section, because that's where the new information regarding player positioning for charges came from, and I've heard the two of them talk about that. So they should have known about it.
Boy, I've seen lots of elbows swung around this season, but never any "violations" called.
can't blame higgins at all for that call. One of ville's guards was getting under zar's skin, so he threw a purposeful elbow. didn't mean to connect, and I don't really view it as a dirty play, but he definitely meant to back the guy off him. Not a smart move by Lazar. If he had accidentally connected, would have been his 3rd foul, or worse.
Remember Jerome Whitehead? In the 1978 NCAA tourney vs. Miami-Ohio, defending champion MU lost the aircraft carrier to a similar elbow when he was just trying to protect the ball. He was ejected from the game for connecting with an opposing chin.
Not a fan of the "elbow that clearly misses contact is a 'violation'" rule. Players wave their elbows constantly. It's a hell of a judgment call to figure out if they meant to injure -- all the while missing???
What's next, a violation to fake left, then go right, embarrassing the defender?
It was a late call, but that "violation" was in hindsight (and after bma's insight) the right call. Very late call, though I still think its hilarious that it wasn't a foul even if that is the rule. L'ville fans must be pissed. Even Buzz thought that was #3 on #32.
Quote from: bma725 on March 03, 2010, 08:36:07 AM
Then that's poor research on their part. The elbow rule was in the new rulebook the NCAA issued before the season.
Section and Article in the rulebook please....
Quote from: mikeDEANmeminger on March 03, 2010, 12:26:34 PM
Section and Article in the rulebook please....
BMA isn't your frackin' secretary, go dig it up yourself. Here, let me help. http://www.google.com/
Quote from: mikeDEANmeminger on March 03, 2010, 12:26:34 PM
Section and Article in the rulebook please....
I'll actually go a step further than reinko
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ncaa+men%27s+basketball+elbow+violation
Douche.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 03, 2010, 09:11:31 AM
Not a fan of the "elbow that clearly misses contact is a 'violation'" rule. Players wave their elbows constantly. It's a hell of a judgment call to figure out if they meant to injure -- all the while missing???
What's next, a violation to fake left, then go right, embarrassing the defender?
To be fair to Higgins, Lazar wasn't waving his elbow for any reason other than to attempt to intimidate his defender--not clearing space, not trying to make a pass, not part of normal play.
Thank god he didn't connect, because not only would would it have been a flagrant foul, he may wall have faced suspension for the ND game.
Quote from: mikeDEANmeminger on March 03, 2010, 12:26:34 PM
Section and Article in the rulebook please....
Actually it was part of the Points of Emphasis, not rule book.
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/rules/mbb/2009/MBBRulesPOE.doc (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/rules/mbb/2009/MBBRulesPOE.doc)
2. Excessive Swinging of the Elbows.
Last year, there were increases in excessive swinging of the elbows. This action should not be ignored because of the associated danger to another player. Contact resulting from an illegally thrown elbow can cause serious injury. Consequently, excessive swinging of the elbow(s) is a point of emphasis.
When the arm and elbow, with the shoulder as a base (pivot) are swung with a speed that exceeds the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot, that action is considered to be excessive. Contact, after such an action, shall not be ignored but shall be called a flagrant foul. When the player's arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung excessively but without contact, a violation has been committed.
When the arms and elbows and the rest of the body move with the same or similarly generated speed and contact occurs, that contact is not considered to be excessive. However, the contact is illegal and a foul shall be assessed.
Given that Lazar was at a dead standstill, raised his arm and swung it, but did not create contact, he clearly committed a violation.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 03, 2010, 12:46:36 PM
To be fair to Higgins, Lazar wasn't waving his elbow for any reason other than to attempt to intimidate his defender--not clearing space, not trying to make a pass, not part of normal play.
First, thanks for digging up the PoE.
I do think what you wrote is debatable. Not really sure how you can ascertain whether Lazar was trying to intimidate, rather than to clear some space. The guy was on Lazar closely. Lazar rotated his body and elbows. Seems to me you could attribute that to clearing space just as easily as to "intimidate". Had there been some previous action between the two, ok. Call a "violation" and settle them down.
Otherwise, let the kids play .. this reminds me of the movie Minority Report and pre-crime.
Doesn't matter what his intent was. If the elbows swing faster than the rest of the body, we have a violation.
I hate Tim Higgins
/regardless of the elbow call