I absolutely love Buzz Williams. He has been able to recruit some great talent for us to "reload" after the amigos left and has kept us competitive in the Big East, which is no small feat.
That said, I am sick and tired of watching him get out-coached in games and especially tight situations. Last night was a prime example of Xs and Os ball. One play in particular is standing out to me: with about 1:20 left and MU down about 6 we call a timeout... great time to call it so we can run a play and get an open look at least... instead we run an iso play for Butler starting at the free throw line!! He drives the lane throws up garbage and gives it over to Pitt.
Frustrating doesn't even explain it for me. Again, I love Buzz and think he's done well... just praying that he can pick up on the Xs and Os a bit more... oh and recruit a big man too for crying out loud
Just a hunch, but I am guessing (just like you are) that the play was not executed in the same manner drawn out in the huddle.
1:50 was left in the game, and i dont think that was a good use of a TO. We had 2 TO left and could of used them better under a minute (guessing that we made a bucket and a stop on the other end.)
Either way Buzz should be drawing up at least 2 plays during that TO and it seemed he didnt even draw 1 up.
Quote from: Wade4Life on February 19, 2010, 09:14:18 AM
1:50 was left in the game, and i dont think that was a good use of a TO. We had 2 TO left and could of used them better under a minute (guessing that we made a bucket and a stop on the other end.)
Either way Buzz should be drawing up at least 2 plays during that TO and it seemed he didnt even draw 1 up.
Yeah I figured I got the exact timing/score probably alittle off, but yes the point is I don't think he even really drew up a single play in the huddle. I really don't think Buzz can draw up a play in crunch time to just get one open look if it counted. This is definitely something he needs to work on
Agree with MU_B2002. There's no way that play was excuted as drawn up.
Also, a lot of coaches don't need to "draw up" a play in the huddle. They have big, thick playbooks that the players need to know. Buzz could have said, "Run play #63" and then moved on to relaying other points to his team. Just because he didn't physically "draw up" a play, that doesn't mean he just told them to freelance.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 19, 2010, 09:17:26 AM
Agree with MU_B2002. There's no way that play was excuted as drawn up.
I don't know for sure, but we gave it to him and everyone cleared out and became statues on the perimeter... looked to me like that was in fact drawn up simply as an iso for Jimmy.
Again though, this is just an example of this for Buzz. A good way to judge in game coaching is half time adjustments and posessions out of time outs and dead balls... can you execute plays and get open looks... Marquette barely ever comes out of time outs and gets open looks plain and simple.
Hmmm. I had no complaints about Buzz in regards to the last 3:00. Buycks missed a layup and our boys made bad decisions. Pitt gave us every opportunity to get into that game. On the other hand, I am not happy about how Buzz got away from our strength. Throughout the majority of the second half, we were force feeding Hayward in the post. We were passing the ball around to feed the post instead of finding the opening shot or driving lane which I believe is our strength. I hope Buzz takes that out of our strategy book. We are not a team that can jam the ball into the post and expect good things to happen. Just my take...
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:06:49 AM
I absolutely love Buzz Williams. He has been able to recruit some great talent for us to "reload" after the amigos left and has kept us competitive in the Big East, which is no small feat.
That said, I am sick and tired of watching him get out-coached in games and especially tight situations. Last night was a prime example of Xs and Os ball. One play in particular is standing out to me: with about 1:20 left and MU down about 6 we call a timeout... great time to call it so we can run a play and get an open look at least... instead we run an iso play for Butler starting at the free throw line!! He drives the lane throws up garbage and gives it over to Pitt.
Frustrating doesn't even explain it for me. Again, I love Buzz and think he's done well... just praying that he can pick up on the Xs and Os a bit more... oh and recruit a big man too for crying out loud
Umm, what about @ Providence @ UCONN and against G'Town?
And BTW, he has recruited big men, 2 7 footers and a 6'11" center.
Quote from: reinko on February 19, 2010, 09:25:05 AM
Umm, what about @ Providence @ UCONN and against G'Town?
And BTW, he has recruited big men, 2 7 footers and a 6'11" center.
reinko, you just don't get it. Marquette lost so Buzz stinks as a coach. What's so hard to understand?
Quote from: ErickJD08 on February 19, 2010, 09:22:59 AM
Hmmm. I had no complaints about Buzz in regards to the last 3:00. Buycks missed a layup and our boys made bad decisions. Pitt gave us every opportunity to get into that game. On the other hand, I am not happy about how Buzz got away from our strength. Throughout the majority of the second half, we were force feeding Hayward in the post. We were passing the ball around to feed the post instead of finding the opening shot or driving lane which I believe is our strength. I hope Buzz takes that out of our strategy book. We are not a team that can jam the ball into the post and expect good things to happen. Just my take...
I agree. We can't just force feed the post... well until we recruit that big man who can actually handle that and take control of a game from the blocks! Man that'll be the day!
ridiculous thread. a team predicted to go nowhere has been in every game it has played this year and the argument is we are being out-coached? please.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:21:46 AM
I don't know for sure, but we gave it to him and everyone cleared out and became statues on the perimeter... looked to me like that was in fact drawn up simply as an iso for Jimmy.
Again though, this is just an example of this for Buzz. A good way to judge in game coaching is half time adjustments and posessions out of time outs and dead balls... can you execute plays and get open looks... Marquette barely ever comes out of time outs and gets open looks plain and simple.
The point about plays coming out of timeouts is very valid. Whether it is the players not executing or the plays being drawn up, we frequently looked lost and like there was no plan right after timeouts last night. In addition to Butler's play, I can recall at least two other instances when MO and DJO got the ball and dribbled around until eventually forcing something by themself and we got nothing out of it.
I think our offense is typically very fun to watch b/c of the way the ball moves and the inside outside game. Last night looked like some of our offenses in the past when you can't even tell what they are trying to do. A lot of standing around watching last night. Pitt's D and poor shooting certainly contributed to that.
There are going to be nights like that on a team as thin as ours. Unfortunately, the margin for error is now extremely thin.
Quote from: reinko on February 19, 2010, 09:25:05 AM
Umm, what about @ Providence @ UCONN and against G'Town?
And BTW, he has recruited big men, 2 7 footers and a 6'11" center.
I wasn't able to see the Gtown game this year so no comment on that game... I was pissed I missed it!
But the UConn game... you can't tell me you thought Buzz won us that game with his coaching! Jimmy hit a really tough shot and we are all grateful for it!! Providence was a good game all around.
Also, I'm talking about recruiting big men who don't struggle with English let alone the game of basketball (Mbao)!! lol We all know what I'm talking about here... a dominant big man. I'm not saying it's easy to find them, but damn we've all been waiting for quite some time!
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:39:54 AM
Also, I'm talking about recruiting big men who don't struggle with English let alone the game of basketball (Mbao)!! lol We all know what I'm talking about here... a dominant big man. I'm not saying it's easy to find them, but damn we've all been waiting for quite some time!
I believe Mbao is fluent in 4-5 languages, English being one of them.
Quote from: d6 on February 19, 2010, 09:38:18 AM
ridiculous thread. a team predicted to go nowhere has been in every game it has played this year and the argument is we are being out-coached? please.
We are being out-coached too often. It's just a fact... You think a Calhoun would've let any of his teams lose at Depaul this year?!
Us hanging in games is a huge credit to Buzz and his recruiting... like I said he's done a wonderful job at keeping us in there after the amigos left...
Quote from: MU_B2002 on February 19, 2010, 09:43:26 AM
I believe Mbao is fluent in 4-5 languages, English being one of them.
Apologies should've been teal
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:06:49 AM
That said, I am sick and tired of watching him get out-coached in games and especially tight situations. Last night was a prime example of Xs and Os ball. One play in particular is standing out to me: with about 1:20 left and MU down about 6 we call a timeout... great time to call it so we can run a play and get an open look at least... instead we run an iso play for Butler starting at the free throw line!! He drives the lane throws up garbage and gives it over to Pitt.
- My belief is they got exactly what they wanted in that possession, and that it was a designed clear out for Jimmy Butler. Butler was having success taking McGhee off the bounce all game, was either scoring, or initiating a fould by McGhee. Given that the 3 wasn't falling, and ZAR had one of his worst games of the year - what other play would you have liked to see run?
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:39:54 AM
I wasn't able to see the Gtown game this year so no comment on that game... I was pissed I missed it!
But the UConn game... you can't tell me you thought Buzz won us that game with his coaching! Jimmy hit a really tough shot and we are all grateful for it!! Providence was a good game all around.
Also, I'm talking about recruiting big men who don't struggle with English let alone the game of basketball (Mbao)!! lol We all know what I'm talking about here... a dominant big man. I'm not saying it's easy to find them, but damn we've all been waiting for quite some time!
So when we win, it's the players, and when we lose it's Buzz. Ok.
Guess Buzz just goes down to his local Big & Tall and picks out the 6'9" beast of a power forward. And what does the command of the English language have to do with anything? Judging by your writing and sentence structure I imagine you also struggle with the English language. lol!!!! lol!!!!
Mbao is a project. Just like Hasheem Thabeet was, just like Onauku was, just like a lot of centers in the NCAA.
Quote from: reinko on February 19, 2010, 09:48:26 AM
So when we win, it's the players, and when we lose it's Buzz. Ok.
That is the life and times of being a coach at any level, unfortunately.
Unless you repeat with other players... then ALL the glory goes to the coach.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:39:54 AM
But the UConn game... you can't tell me you thought Buzz won us that game with his coaching! Jimmy hit a really tough shot and we are all grateful for it!! Providence was a good game all around.
Now, you've just revealed yourself to be a complete idiot. Players win games. Period. Coaching puts players in the position to win games. This team has been in every game. So, Butler makes a shot (Buzz can't take it for him) against UCONN and we win - so Butler gets the credit. You then go on to post that would Calhoun let his team lose to DePaul? In that game, Lazar and Cubi miss front end of 1 and 1's, and we lose that game..of course that's Buzz's fault. So, basically your arguement is that when a player hits a shot, its due to the player's skill - not Buzz's coaching, but then when a player misses Free throws that result in a loss..it's the Coaches fault?
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:43:47 AM
We are being out-coached too often. It's just a fact... You think a Calhoun would've let any of his teams lose at Depaul this year?!
Us hanging in games is a huge credit to Buzz and his recruiting... like I said he's done a wonderful job at keeping us in there after the amigos left...
+1
Truth is, MU nation is behind Buzz 100%. Honestly, if we were in the bottom of the BE, I would be neither upset or surprised. Being a bubble team is a very nice thing. (No Crean bashing, but its the best comparison I have) Last year, Indiana had the fewest returning players and minutes in the Big 10 and they got pooped on. Even this year, they are getting pooped on. We had the fewest returning minutes and points and we are competitive in a harder conference. That fact just tells me our team is in good hands. Even though we are losing three major contributors next season, I am confident that we will be a better team.
Last, something all the critics should realize. Buzz is the youngest coach in the Big East and I think we have a gem. He is NOT JB or Calhoun. He is learning too.
Quote from: Ners on February 19, 2010, 09:51:39 AM
Now, you've just revealed yourself to be a complete idiot. Players win games. Period. Coaching puts players in the position to win games. This team has been in every game. So, Butler makes a shot (Buzz can't take it for him) against UCONN and we win - so Butler gets the credit. You then go on to post that would Calhoun let his team lose to DePaul? In that game, Lazar and Cubi miss front end of 1 and 1's, and we lose that game..of course that's Buzz's fault. So, basically your arguement is that when a player hits a shot, its due to the player's skill - not Buzz's coaching, but then when a player misses Free throws that result in a loss..it's the Coaches fault?
HA.... Dude, you forgot. ALSO, when the other team hits crazy hard shots, then you credit the other coach for outcoaching Buzz.
Quote from: Ners on February 19, 2010, 09:51:39 AM
Now, you've just revealed yourself to be a complete idiot. Players win games. Period. Coaching puts players in the position to win games. This team has been in every game. So, Butler makes a shot (Buzz can't take it for him) against UCONN and we win - so Butler gets the credit. You then go on to post that would Calhoun let his team lose to DePaul? In that game, Lazar and Cubi miss front end of 1 and 1's, and we lose that game..of course that's Buzz's fault. So, basically your arguement is that when a player hits a shot, its due to the player's skill - not Buzz's coaching, but then when a player misses Free throws that result in a loss..it's the Coaches fault?
Nope... Providence was a well coached game... good game all around as I've already stated there buddy.
I do agree with you on this: "Coaching puts players in the position to win games."
But with that... why can't we get open looks in crunch time? Buzz doesn't put our players in that position out of timeouts etc... Jimmy's UConn shot is a prime example!
Quote from: reinko on February 19, 2010, 09:48:26 AM
So when we win, it's the players, and when we lose it's Buzz. Ok.
Guess Buzz just goes down to his local Big & Tall and picks out the 6'9" beast of a power forward. And what does the command of the English language have to do with anything? Judging by your writing and sentence structure I imagine you also struggle with the English language. lol!!!! lol!!!!
Mbao is a project. Just like Hasheem Thabeet was, just like Onauku was, just like a lot of centers in the NCAA.
Not sure what you are referring to there? Please explain... I mean anyone who understand English knows you can not begin a sentence with "and" lol
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 10:09:38 AM
Not sure what you are referring to there? Please explain... I mean anyone who understand English knows you can not begin a sentence with "and" lol
False... ;)
http://editingpublishing.suite101.com/article.cfm/can_i_start_a_sentence_with_and_
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:43:47 AM
We are being out-coached too often. It's just a fact... You think a Calhoun would've let any of his teams lose at Depaul this year?!
Us hanging in games is a huge credit to Buzz and his recruiting... like I said he's done a wonderful job at keeping us in there after the amigos left...
Calhoun would never let that happer. Of course, he did coach a team that got beat handily by Michigan, the same team our inept coach helped guide us to a decided victory against. And you absolutely can start a sentence with "and." Grammar school rules fade out later on in life.......
Quote from: MU_B2002 on February 19, 2010, 10:11:48 AM
False... ;)
http://editingpublishing.suite101.com/article.cfm/can_i_start_a_sentence_with_and_
Thanks for the assist.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:43:47 AM
We are being out-coached too often. It's just a fact... You think a Calhoun would've let any of his teams lose at Depaul this year?!
Us hanging in games is a huge credit to Buzz and his recruiting... like I said he's done a wonderful job at keeping us in there after the amigos left...
Calhoun would never let that happen. Of course, he did coach a team that got beat handily by Michigan, the same team our inept coach helped guide us to a decided victory against. And you absolutely can start a sentence with "and." Grammar school rules fade out later on in life.......
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 10:09:38 AM
Not sure what you are referring to there? Please explain... I mean anyone who understand English knows you can not begin a sentence with "and" lol
Yeah... They teach kids not to start with "And" in the fourth grade because its a bad habit but you can certainly do it for stylistic purposes. It's similar to starting a sentence with "But" and "Because".
Quote from: d6 on February 19, 2010, 09:38:18 AM
ridiculous thread. a team predicted to go nowhere has been in every game it has played this year and the argument is we are being out-coached? please.
+100
Quote from: reinko on February 19, 2010, 10:14:17 AM
Thanks for the assist.
I admit that I stand corrected, wasn't aware of this... just remember the grade school nuns yelling to not do it, lol
I would still like to know where I am being challenged with my use of the English language? This is a dumb argument though now (the grammer and use of English... afterall this is free web open forum writing where "lol" is acceptable), I believe we can all agree on that
Quote from: d6 on February 19, 2010, 10:14:41 AM
Calhoun would never let that happen. Of course, he did coach a team that got beat handily by Michigan, the same team our inept coach helped guide us to a decided victory against. And you absolutely can start a sentence with "and." Grammar school rules fade out later on in life.......
Never said he was inept, just that I do not believe he's a good in game coach
yet
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:43:47 AM
We are being out-coached too often. It's just a fact... You think a Calhoun would've let any of his teams lose at Depaul this year?!
Us hanging in games is a huge credit to Buzz and his recruiting... like I said he's done a wonderful job at keeping us in there after the amigos left...
Calhoun outcoaching DePaul/Tracy Webster really brings nothing to the argument about Buzz's coaching performance this year. Second, I hate how people will bring up Calhoun, Boeheim, Izzo, etc. Let's just throw in John Wooden too and bitch about how some of the best coaches in the game, or all time, are better than our 37 year old head coach in his 2nd season in the Big East.
Quote from: LAZER on February 19, 2010, 10:26:44 AM
Calhoun outcoaching DePaul/Tracy Webster really brings nothing to the argument about Buzz's coaching performance this year. Second, I hate how people will bring up Calhoun, Boeheim, Izzo, etc. Let's just throw in John Wooden too and bitch about how some of the best coaches in the game, or all time, are better than our 37 year old head coach in his 2nd season in the Big East.
I'm just saying that it's something he needs to work on... I agree that it is unfair to compare Buzz to some of the best all time coaches in college basketball. It just frustrates me when we can't get open looks out of TOs and dead balls.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 10:00:39 AM
But with that... why can't we get open looks in crunch time? Buzz doesn't put our players in that position out of timeouts etc... Jimmy's UConn shot is a prime example!
Sorry dude, I certainly appreciate you being an MU fan, but your analysis/observations are not very indiciative of you having a good knowledge of the game of basketball. Please just answer my original question about what "play" you would have liked to see run last night, other than the clear out for Jimmy? Was Lazar an effective option las night? Were we hitting our 3 last night? If you are a team playing MU you take away our 3, overplay that extensively. How do you suggest freeing up a player for an open shot, when we have no threat of dumping the ball inside and scoring in that fashion? Our offense is entirely created off of multiple dribble-drive, draw and dish attempts, which eventually frees up a player. We don't have the size nor inside presence to draw up a play that frees a player for a shot. Lastly, a 1-on-1 clear out is not a bad play when the offensive player has more quickness than the defensive player - Jimmy Butler against either Gavin Edwards from UCONN or McGhee from Pitt.
Quote from: Ners on February 19, 2010, 10:32:58 AM
Sorry dude, I certainly appreciate you being an MU fan, but your analysis/observations are not very indiciative of you having a good knowledge of the game of basketball. Please just answer my original question about what "play" you would have liked to see run last night, other than the clear out for Jimmy? Was Lazar an effective option las night? Were we hitting our 3 last night? If you are a team playing MU you take away our 3, overplay that extensively. How do you suggest freeing up a player for an open shot, when we have no threat of dumping the ball inside and scoring in that fashion? Our offense is entirely created off of multiple dribble-drive, draw and dish attempts, which eventually frees up a player. We don't have the size nor inside presence to draw up a play that frees a player for a shot. Lastly, a 1-on-1 clear out is not a bad play when the offensive player has more quickness than the defensive player - Jimmy Butler against either Gavin Edwards from UCONN or McGhee from Pitt.
Apologies, missed your originall "what would you have done" post. And I take no offense at all, we are all Marquette fans at the heart of it, so even if people insult I know it's all light hearted and done simply because we are all so passionate, so no worries.
I agree Lazar was not a factor last night and we were not hitting our 3s. If I were getting paid millions to draw up something, I would've at the very least run a play that offered "options" and not just a "Hey Jimmy, go get it" play. That said, at least a pick n' roll would provide an option with a double screen on DJO's man for a mid ranger baseline... provides 3 options so to speak [take the ball to the rack off the pick, dump to the picker or read DJO's defender for a potential open look]. A bit difficult to really lay out on here without a board to draw, but I think you'll be able to see what I'm getting at. I just feel you need to at least have multiple possibilities in key possessions, but that's me obviously.
Quote from: reinko on February 19, 2010, 09:25:05 AM
Umm, what about @ Providence @ UCONN and against G'Town?
And BTW, he has recruited big men, 2 7 footers and a 6'11" center.
And they are either in the hospital or one that did not get here is on his way to the slammer.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 10:52:05 AM
Apologies, missed your originall "what would you have done" post. And I take no offense at all, we are all Marquette fans at the heart of it, so even if people insult I know it's all light hearted and done simply because we are all so passionate, so no worries.
I agree Lazar was not a factor last night and we were not hitting our 3s. If I were getting paid millions to draw up something, I would've at the very least run a play that offered "options" and not just a "Hey Jimmy, go get it" play. That said, at least a pick n' roll would provide an option with a double screen on DJO's man for a mid ranger baseline... provides 3 options so to speak [take the ball to the rack off the pick, dump to the picker or read DJO's defender for a potential open look]. A bit difficult to really lay out on here without a board to draw, but I think you'll be able to see what I'm getting at. I just feel you need to at least have multiple possibilities in key possessions, but that's me obviously.
I appreciate your passion for the game and MU as well..and your suggestion is decent, certainly. I thought Pitt was for the most part jumping screens for most of the game, which neutralizes the pick and roll game. I'm not sure we are a great pick and roll team as it is, as Mo Acker is very little threat to actualy score on penetration - so you overplay the roll player. But if our guards are jumped by the ball screen defender, it makes it very hard to execute the roll pass, etc. I guess just a difference of opinion. I long have been a fan of DJO in a clear out situation, but do think Jimmy is a little more reliable, less turnover prone going to the rack. At the end of the day, I guess I thought it was a decent call out of a timeout and executed fairly well. We just didn't get the result we wanted.
Yeah and he probably told Acker to jack up that three with no pass at all on the play with about 58 seconds left when we were still very much in it
MU had a ton of opportunities to take a significant lead at many points int he game, and we missed our shots, they rattled out, got blocked, etc. We did not play well. We lost.
Quote from: Ners on February 19, 2010, 11:03:40 AM
I appreciate your passion for the game and MU as well..and your suggestion is decent, certainly. I thought Pitt was for the most part jumping screens for most of the game, which neutralizes the pick and roll game. I'm not sure we are a great pick and roll team as it is, as Mo Acker is very little threat to actualy score on penetration - so you overplay the roll player. But if our guards are jumped by the ball screen defender, it makes it very hard to execute the roll pass, etc. I guess just a difference of opinion. I long have been a fan of DJO in a clear out situation, but do think Jimmy is a little more reliable, less turnover prone going to the rack. At the end of the day, I guess I thought it was a decent call out of a timeout and executed fairly well. We just didn't get the result we wanted.
A difference of opinion, that's acceptable and see your points. I found it particularly questionable considering how a lot of Jimmy's game is built on drawing contact from the other player, but in order for that to be successful you need the refs to blow the whistle and since that wasn't taking place last night I just thought at the time we should've come up with something else than that.
Dixon had one heck of a game plan yesterday both on defense and on offense. His team was patient and got the ball inside for easy dunks, and Pitt played great defense. Now, just because Dixon had athletic big guys and had a nice game plan, does not mean that Buzz was outcoached by any means.
MU is one of the best shooting teams in the country and Buzz has the team willing to pass on threes and get paint touches. That takes some discipline.
Regarding the Jimmy play, what kind of play were you expecting? Getting Jimmy the ball in a comfortable spot and letting him go to work is one of the highest percentage plays for MU this season. Do you want the picket fence out of a time out?
The reason we lost last night was that we scored 51 points. Plain and simple. A perimeter team is going to have nights like that.
Buzz didn't X & O Lazar and Jimmy repeatedly getting lost down low. Buzz did not X & O Lazar's inability to hit a shot last night. Buzz has his man to man offense. It is what he runs. It is predicated on getting into the lane, pitching to an open man, getting the defense to collapse, then doing it all over again until someone gets a wide open look or a wide open lane. Dixon X & O'd his team's defense perfectly. No weak side help, lots of physical play, always square to your man on the perimeter, always a hand up on the 3 pt shooter. It worked great. Buzz's X & O adjustment could have been to tell DJO, DB, and JB to attack the rack at every opportunity and not look for the pass. But that option is always there anyway and they didn't do it. Sometimes, the other team just beats us.
I'm with tower. If our normally reliable three-point shooters hit some shots, if buycks doesn't miss a bunny, if zar hits a few half hooks, if out 80% free throw shooter doesn't miss 4 of his firt 5 free throws, if their 26% three point shooter doesn't drain his 4th (i believe) three of the year, blah blah blah, then we're possibly having a different discussion. Not one of the things mentioned above has anything to do with Xs & Os. Zilch, except Dixon probably doesn't diagram the 26% 3-shooter taking that jumper.
Quote from: d6 on February 19, 2010, 12:46:25 PM
I'm with tower. If our normally reliable three-point shooters hit some shots, if buycks doesn't miss a bunny, if zar hits a few half hooks, if out 80% free throw shooter doesn't miss 4 of his firt 5 free throws, if their 26% three point shooter doesn't drain his 4th (i believe) three of the year, blah blah blah, then we're possibly having a different discussion. Not one of the things mentioned above has anything to do with Xs & Os. Zilch, except Dixon probably doesn't diagram the 26% 3-shooter taking that jumper.
+1 Well said, well done
No shame in losing this game except that we did not defend our home court. I'd love to get these guys at the Garden in a 4/5 game in the BE tourney.
I guess then we can see if Buzz can make any defensive adjustments.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on February 19, 2010, 01:05:56 PM
I'd love to get these guys at the Garden in a 4/5 game in the BE tourney.
"But they have so many players from New York. It's like playing a home game. All their families are there. Those kids just relish the opportunity to play at the Garden for the Big East Tournament. Did you know Pitt has a lot of players from New York?"
-Len Elmore
Also...
Borderline call goes MU's way or when we actually do get a call they take the time to get it right...
"I'm not so sure about that one. In fact, section 4.5, line three says the opposite of what they're ruling on the floor."
Poor call goes against MU...
"These officials have a tough task but they're doing a fantastic job."
Please ESPN, promote Mike Kelly and get that fool off the air.
I'm not just speaking to last night's loss particularly. We lossed that game for a number of reasons (including Dixon having a great game plan and us not coming up with a reaction to it), but I was using that Butler play since it would be fresh in people's minds to demonstrate my point that often times it seems like Buzz doesn't draw up plays in timeouts or situations like that and this is just something I think our young coach needs to work on.
Coaching was not the reason for last night's loss.
Everyone's an expert!
Fyi, I'm GoldenWarrior on the Scout board and I'm not the OP!
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:43:47 AM
We are being out-coached too often. It's just a fact... You think a Calhoun would've let any of his teams lose at Depaul this year?!
Us hanging in games is a huge credit to Buzz and his recruiting... like I said he's done a wonderful job at keeping us in there after the amigos left...
1.It's not a "fact" that we are being outcoached "too often" this year. It's your (IMHO) extremely uninformed opinion. The writers and coaches both had Marquette slotted for 12th place this year BEFORE Cadougan and Otule got hurt and Maymon left. That we have been so competitive this year speaks to Buzz's ability as a coach and has little to do with his skill as a recruiter.
2.Jim Calhoun has bigger, better and much more highly rated players than us at every position this year but is 5-8 in conference and 15-11 overall. His team is BY FAR the most underachieving team in the conference and one of the biggest disappointments in all of college basketball. Using him as the gold standard for coaching excellence indicates a basic lack of knowledge of anything basketball related, especially Xs and Os.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 19, 2010, 03:53:45 PM
1.It's not a "fact" that we are being outcoached "too often" this year. It's your (IMHO) extremely uninformed opinion. The writers and coaches both had Marquette slotted for 12th place this year BEFORE Cadougan and Otule got hurt and Maymon left. That we have been so competitive this year speaks to Buzz's ability as a coach and has little to do with his skill as a recruiter.
2.Jim Calhoun has bigger, better and much more highly rated players than us at every position this year but is 5-8 in conference and 15-11 overall. His team is BY FAR the most underachieving team in the conference and one of the biggest disappointments in all of college basketball. Using him as the gold standard for coaching excellence indicates a basic lack of knowledge of anything basketball related, especially Xs and Os.
1. You are right it is my opinion, it is not factual and can't be proven. Kudos. I don't see how you don't think how we are doing this year has anything to do with Buzz's recruiting?? Makes no sense me to in any way. You think we would have the same record if he had recruited the Marquette High bball team to play this year?? C'mon now, you can't tell me his recruiting has little to do with how we are performing.
2. Read the whole thread, I reverted on the comparison to Calhoun, however I will say that the skid they hit came at the same time Calhoun was hospitalized... ironic or just a show of how good of a coach he is?? Also, I never said he is a golden standard by any means, but being in the top 10 coaches wins of the all time is pretty indicative of a good coach regardless, lol. How do you suppose I lack basic basketball knowledge??
I love to point out Buzz's shortcomings as a coach. However, this loss boils down to execution. Shots didn't fall, careless with the ball.
When asked about his team's execution, Tampa Bay Bucaneer's Coach John McKay responded "I'm in favor of it".
The games we lost by ft's i don't pin on him. Even this last game would have played out completely different if Butler had hit his early. I think he's done a great job this year, solid A.
Out of his many strengths there are a few weakness. Like waiting too long to call a time out and inbounds plays after those time outs. Both are things that I hope he works on and becomes better at. He is inexperienced, and players aren't the only ones who develop. Think it's a little early to get outraged over anything he's done.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 03:06:07 PM
I'm not just speaking to last night's loss particularly. We lossed that game for a number of reasons (including Dixon having a great game plan and us not coming up with a reaction to it), but I was using that Butler play since it would be fresh in people's minds to demonstrate my point that often times it seems like Buzz doesn't draw up plays in timeouts or situations like that and this is just something I think our young coach needs to work on.
As has already been pointed out, Jimmy was having quite a bit of success last night either scoring or getting to the line when isolated against Pitt's big man.
It would seem to me that, contrary to your assertion that Buzz drew up no play, he drew up a play that put a player in the same position in which he was having success much of the evening.
Isn't that what a good coach is supposed to do?
Buzz, like any young coach, has areas where he needs to improve. But I don't see how you question that particular decision, unless you see it as going to the well one too many times.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on February 19, 2010, 09:56:40 AM
+1
Truth is, MU nation is behind Buzz 100%. Honestly, if we were in the bottom of the BE, I would be neither upset or surprised. Being a bubble team is a very nice thing. (No Crean bashing, but its the best comparison I have) Last year, Indiana had the fewest returning players and minutes in the Big 10 and they got pooped on. Even this year, they are getting pooped on. We had the fewest returning minutes and points and we are competitive in a harder conference. That fact just tells me our team is in good hands. Even though we are losing three major contributors next season, I am confident that we will be a better team.
Last, something all the critics should realize. Buzz is the youngest coach in the Big East and I think we have a gem. He is NOT JB or Calhoun. He is learning too.
Poor analogy....this year's MU team returns an all Big East first team selection plus a first team ALL Juco All American.
IU returned nothing of the kind this year.
Just saying.
All that being said, Buzz has done a nice job this year. We will miss Hayward terribly next year.
Quote from: d6 on February 19, 2010, 09:38:18 AM
ridiculous thread. a team predicted to go nowhere has been in every game it has played this year and the argument is we are being out-coached? please.
Totally agreed. Bottom line of that game, we couldn't make sh*t, it wasn't our night. The only way coaching could be involved here is if better coaching improved field goal percentage...
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 19, 2010, 09:43:47 AM
We are being out-coached too often. It's just a fact... You think a Calhoun would've let any of his teams lose at Depaul this year?!
Us hanging in games is a huge credit to Buzz and his recruiting... like I said he's done a wonderful job at keeping us in there after the amigos left...
I am trying to understand what you are saying here; Buzz is a bad bench coach but a good recruitor?
I wanted to go back to my post here and just say that I have seen some very solid coaching by Buzz these past two games in particular. I think we are seeing him learn and improve right before our eyes and it's simply making me even more optimistic about the future of this program and team. I still would like to see more scoring coming out of time outs, but I now fully expect that to come in time as well... it's starting to show up a bit more now.
So, kudos to you Mr. Buzz Williams, you've been doing a great job... keep it up!!
What a horrible coach Buzz is. I am confident that it was his fault that Lazar missed the open 3 at the end of regulation yesterday.
Quote from: 6746jonesr on March 01, 2010, 12:27:32 PM
What a horrible coach Buzz is. I am confident that it was his fault that Lazar missed the open 3 at the end of regulation yesterday.
I am confused by this post?? Welcome to the boards though
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on March 01, 2010, 12:43:52 PM
I am confused by this post?? Welcome to the boards though
Pretty sure his comment was meant to be sarcastic...
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on March 01, 2010, 12:43:52 PM
I am confused by this post?? Welcome to the boards though
My guess is he meant to put it in teal.
I know this has been discussed adnauseum as one of Buzz's weaknesses, but has Rosiak or anyone else asked him why he doesn't fowl the opposing team's players with a 3 pt or greater lead with less than 30 seconds to play.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on March 01, 2010, 12:19:50 PM
I wanted to go back to my post here and just say that I have seen some very solid coaching by Buzz these past two games in particular. I think we are seeing him learn and improve right before our eyes and it's simply making me even more optimistic about the future of this program and team. I still would like to see more scoring coming out of time outs, but I now fully expect that to come in time as well... it's starting to show up a bit more now.
So, kudos to you Mr. Buzz Williams, you've been doing a great job... keep it up!!
+1 for re-visiting this thread and your analysis. I predicted DePaul would win a total of 4 Big East wins after MU lost to them...only to have that thread recycled (yesterday)by Chicos 6 weeks after starting the thread - which proved me wrong. Better to own up to our own opinions not being proven out, rather than waiting for some member here to recycle your thread/opinion to illustrate you were wrong!!
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 01, 2010, 01:01:50 PM
I know this has been discussed adnauseum as one of Buzz's weaknesses, but has Rosiak or anyone else asked him why he doesn't fowl the opposing team's players with a 3 pt or greater lead with less than 30 seconds to play.
Yes I believe he should goose them ;D
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 19, 2010, 05:40:54 PM
Poor analogy....this year's MU team returns an all Big East first team selection plus a first team ALL Juco All American.
IU returned nothing of the kind this year.
Just saying.
All that being said, Buzz has done a nice job this year. We will miss Hayward terribly next year.
Poor analogy??? OK, no analogy is perfect, especially with sports but both teams returned the fewest points and minutes. If Marquette returned these GREAT players, why did most people project us to be at the bottom of the Big East?
I am not dogging Crean. Two seasons ago, alot of players and talent left IU. It was going to be a struggle and if I were an IU fan, I would be fine with last season. Its just the same for Buzz in that if we were in the bottom of the Big East this season, I would be OK with it. So my point is that when a team loses a bunch of contributors, it's a very difficult handicap for a coach to overcome. And if they can't overcome that handicap, it doesn't necessarily prove that the coach is bad. But when a coach does overcome that handicap, it shows alot about what the coach is able to do. And for me, other than the increase in Matthews's production, nothing about last season "proved" to me anything about Buzz's coaching ability... for the most part, he did have his moments. This year, Buzz has showed everyone that he actually can teach a team to play good basketball. So now, I look at Buzz and think "So we got a guy who can recruit AND coach." That's a combination that all the greats have. And that leaves MU nation hopeful for the future.
Quote from: Ners on March 01, 2010, 01:05:56 PM
+1 for revisiting this thread and your analysis. I predicted DePaul would win a total of 4 Big East wins after MU lost to them...only to have that thread recycled (yesterday)by Chicos 6 weeks after starting the thread - which proved me wrong. Better to own up to our own opinions not being proven out, rather than waiting for some member here to recycle your thread/opinion to illustrate you were wrong!!
Thanks. I figured if I'm going to be on here being mad about something I see wrong, I might as well be up for admitting if I was incorrect.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on March 01, 2010, 03:52:28 PM
Thanks. I figured if I'm going to be on here being mad about something I see wrong, I might as well be up for admitting if I was incorrect.
I'm learning that lesson as well, though most of my opinions tend to be optimistic or a kool-aid drinker variety...which annoys the realists of this board..but..ultimately it is probably a good thing to have the optimist and realist or even pessimist viewpoint to balance things out. This statement does not apply to Gumbey and Pokey, however.