What are anyone's thoughts about a Jesuit College Tournament. I know there was some talk about it a few years back. Personally, I think it would be sweet to see Marquette, Georgetown, BC, Xavier, and Gonzaga battle it out. Plus, it would give some of the lessor know D1 Jesuit schools like. Loyola Chicago, USF, St. Joe's, SLU, and Fordham a chance to play with some national attention and maybe even shock some people. Remember when Crean's chump squad lost to the Greyhounds of Loyola Maryland this year? Does anyone think this could ever happen?
Well I know MU and Gtown could not both participate as schools in the same conference cannot play in the same non-con tournament.
The talk about this a few years back mostly kept getting hung up on the fact that teams in the same conference cannot play each other in "preseason" games.. as such you'd need to start a rotation of teams and there are limited such rotations you could do.. gets tough logistically.. it's been talked about on here before.. look further down in this thread: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=10146.0
This comes up all the time, it can't be done because of NCAA regulations. You aren't allowed to play in the same pre-season tournament as someone within your conference, and most Jesuit schools are in the same conference as at least on other Jesuit school.
Basically the only way to do it every year would be to rotate the teams to make sure you don't have teams from the same conference. So you'd have to pick one from each of the following:
A-10: Xavier, St. Joseph's, Saint Louis, Fordham
Big East: Marquette, Georgetown
Horizon: Loyola Chicago, Detroit
MAAC: Canisius, Fairfield, Loyola(MD), St. Peter's
WCC: Gonzaga, Loyola Marymount, Santa Clara, USF
And then add in 3 of Creighton(MVC), Boston College(ACC), Holy Cross(Colonial) and Seattle(independent)...and that's assuming Seattle doesn't join a conference. If they do, those first three have to agree to play every year...which none of them would ever do.
A smaller Jesuit school, like D2 Regis in Denver, should host one like Chaminade does in Maui. Expand it to an all Catholic tourney, so you could grab ND, Dayton, etc.
I personally think it could work, but they'd have to nail down a corporate sponsor.
Sorry folks. I've never understood the romance of an All-Jesuit tournament or All-Jesuit conference. I went to a Catholic high school that played in a conference with only other Catholic schools (ESCC in Illinois), and I just don't see its appeal at the college level.
We need to host X number of games to make up revenue, but can only play X number of games per NCAA rules. Like it or not, that means home games. So unless this tournament is going to be played in Milwaukee every year (We could call it the Blue and Gold Classic!), then these are games that are going to be played away from the BC.
If our preseason neutral-site tournament options are an All-Jesuit throwdown with Canisius, Creighton, and Seattle in Dayton or St. Louis or going to Maui or the CBE or the Old Spice to play Duke and Illinois, that's a very easy choice to make.
Quote from: notkirkcameron on February 17, 2010, 03:55:33 PM
Sorry folks. I've never understood the romance of an All-Jesuit tournament or All-Jesuit conference. I went to a Catholic high school that played in a conference with only other Catholic schools (ESCC in Illinois), and I just don't see its appeal at the college level.
Especially since you can't have two teams from the same conference. It really wouldn't be a Catholic Tournament in the sense of a "Catholic School Championship." Just a tournament of schools that happen to be Catholic. You'd end up with something like BC, Marquette, Gonzaga, St. Louis, Creighton, Iona, Loyola...and some other dinky school to round out the field.
This does come up every now and them because:
- many Jesuit schools have rich bk traditions
- playing a Jesuit team means more to me and some fans than some Baptist school from Houston ;)
- allows for MU to play against the better nonBE Jesuit teams, kinda like seeing a ficticious matchup actually happen (the superbowl of Jesuit teams)
Here's what I've come up with (see attachment). This assumes all 20 teams want to participate. Three conferences have 4 Jesuit schools, so I created a '4 region' tournament with five teams each. 4&5 play in, then its a regular 4 team tournament.
I came up with an arbitrary 'grading' system to even out the play so each region has decent mix of teams. I didn't really play with the matchups much, but you get the idea. This kind of system would actually be really cool and teams could move around year-to-year so long as you keep the A-10, MAAC, and WCC teams separated.
Keith
N.B. There would not be a final four tournament with the winners from each region because of conference overlap. I didn't put too much thought into what schools got what grade beyond using their overall and conf records and weighting the better conferences. Its just a rough, so no complaints ... Thanks!
It's my understanding that teams in the same conference cannot play in the same non-conference tournament even if there is no chance that they would play each other.
Quote from: copious1218 on February 17, 2010, 04:40:44 PM
It's my understanding that teams in the same conference cannot play in the same non-conference tournament even if there is no chance that they would play each other.
My idea is actually is 4 individual tournaments each w/ 5 teams. With sponsorship they could each be called "The ... Jesuit School Classic". It would a great opportunity to showcase the schools and the Jesuit tradition.
I did create a scenario where there are two tournaments, but six teams (2 from 3 conferences) have to be left out, which brings the number of eligible teams to 14 (from 20). Then if you assume a couple of the other schools don't participate, you're down to two, six-team tournaments. That doesn't seem to work well.
Jesuit schools participate in 8 conferences and 1 is ind. A single, traditional 8 team tournament would be too exclusive, IMO. The whole notion is probably not practical, but it would be really cool if it happened.
Quote from: notkirkcameron on February 17, 2010, 03:55:33 PM
Sorry folks. I've never understood the romance of an All-Jesuit tournament or All-Jesuit conference. I went to a Catholic high school that played in a conference with only other Catholic schools (ESCC in Illinois), and I just don't see its appeal at the college level.
I agree that an all-Jesuit conference is not appealing, however, I think a tournament is ... its only a couple games out of the season and would be the same as or better than some of our other pre-season games. I would also say the #1 or #2 should host, not neutral site.
Instead of a tournament they should have a challenge some weekend where every Jesuit school plays another. Just one game, rotate opponents according to best match ups. It'd be all over espn.
Quote from: RawdogDX on February 17, 2010, 06:13:26 PM
Instead of a tournament they should have a challenge some weekend where every Jesuit school plays another. Just one game, rotate opponents according to best match ups. It'd be all over espn.
Or at least EWTN.
Haha, between this and the fighting souix thread, all we need is the "we need a big man" thread, and we'll have all the classics covered.
That's covered, see the Crowder thread.
haha oh right, my fault
No
How about a national all Catholic college challenge. It would be similar to the ACC/Big 10 or Big East/SEC challenges. Only difference would be Cathlic schools from a myriad of conferences playing each other. Gonzaga/ Gtown, MU/Seattle, Nova/Xavier, Providence/BC, Dayton/St. Marys etc and every year they would rotate alternating home and away.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 18, 2010, 01:29:35 PM
How about a national all Catholic college challenge. It would be similar to the ACC/Big 10 or Big East/SEC challenges. Only difference would be Cathlic schools from a myriad of conferences playing each other. Gonzaga/ Gtown, MU/Seattle, Nova/Xavier, Providence/BC, Dayton/St. Marys etc and every year they would rotate alternating home and away.
Please not let us draw Seattle in your fictitious tournament.
With megaconference re-shuffling on the horizon, this could be a conference, not a tournament.
Quote from: tower912 on February 18, 2010, 01:38:40 PM
With megaconference re-shuffling on the horizon, this could be a conference, not a tournament.
the geography is off. would have to boot gonzaga, seattle, and saint mary's
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 18, 2010, 01:29:35 PM
How about a national all Catholic college challenge. It would be similar to the ACC/Big 10 or Big East/SEC challenges. Only difference would be Cathlic schools from a myriad of conferences playing each other. Gonzaga/ Gtown, MU/Seattle, Nova/Xavier, Providence/BC, Dayton/St. Marys etc and every year they would rotate alternating home and away.
Honestly, do people really care that much? I mean, we play a handful of Catholic schools every year in conference.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 18, 2010, 02:00:14 PM
Honestly, do people really care that much? I mean, we play a handful of Catholic schools every year in conference.
No kidding. I mean, my God there's 8 Catholic schools in the Big East. That means at minimum 7 games of Catholic-on-Catholic hardwood throwdowns each year (And this year we had 9 in conference, plus Xavier!). If you can't get your Catholic-on-Catholic jollies from that, there may be serious issues.
Quote from: notkirkcameron on February 18, 2010, 05:51:29 PM
No kidding. I mean, my God there's 8 Catholic schools in the Big East. That means at minimum 7 games of Catholic-on-Catholic hardwood throwdowns each year (And this year we had 9 in conference, plus Xavier!). If you can't get your Catholic-on-Catholic jollies from that, there may be serious issues.
A lot of innuendo in that post. Keep it clean bro.