MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on February 14, 2010, 08:39:10 AM

Title: MU Student Section Question
Post by: Tugg Speedman on February 14, 2010, 08:39:10 AM
Once we win multiple championships and fall to #7 in a bad year, we can compare MU's student section to Duke.

Once MU expands enrollment to 40,000, and students have to fight to get tickets to see just a few games, we can compare MU's student section to the Big Ten.

Once MU's endowment reaches $10 billion allowing us to build a 9k seat bball only arena with a low ceiling on campus and have 75% of filled it students, we can compare MU's student section to ND.

So let's compare MU to two other catholic institutions that are about the same size (relative to large state universities), often play in an NBA arenas and are in the same conference .... Georgetown and Villanova.

Can anyone compare MU's student section to these two schools?  And I don't mean just this year because 'nova is ranked #3 and obviously that alone will generate buzz.  How about our student section versus these two schools over the last few years.

anyone?
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: nathanziarek on February 14, 2010, 09:18:05 AM
I know this is a question just about students, but when I saw this I thought, "but what about the population? Surely those two schools have more students and bigger metropolitan areas to draw from?" the idea being bigger crowds = more excitement.

StudentsCity Size
Marquette11,516953,328
Georgetown14,246591,833
Villanova10,466778,048

I used the surrounding county for the population. The numbers certainly don't tell everything, but these three schools are certainly in the same ballpark.

I only have experience watching games with opposing crowds at the Joyce Center, Freedom Hall, the Verizon Center and the All State Arena. Of those, on a good day, against a big opponent, our student section is as good as any.

We that falters is that Marquette is rarely considered a big opponent, and I think other student sections manage to amp themselves up better for all games, not just the big ones.

More apples-to-apples for me is comparing this year's crowd to last year's. Last year I felt like Marquette had reclaimed itself as a basketball school -- kids were chanting, the sway-clap (how long before that becomes the name of a venereal disease?) was in full effect and they were LOUD. It felt like they were at Marquette for the basketball, and that was fun.

I don't see that this year. It's just more subdued. There might be a thousand reasons for it, but that's certainly the perception and it carries over to other games I've seen at other arenas.

That all said, watching the tail end of the Pitt-WVU game, when the cameras panned Pitt's student section, there was only one girl clapping and yelling, and this was a huge game. It wasn't until OT that the crowd got into it. Fans are fickle.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: GOMU1104 on February 14, 2010, 09:30:38 AM
The Georgetown student section is divided, and is seated behind both baskets. Of the games I have watched this year, the majority of the time the students did not fill up the lower bowl. They were packed for the Duke game, and will be packed vs. Syracuse on Thursday...but the other Big East games, they are pretty mediocre.

I went to the Nova/MU game this year @ Nova, which was played on campus at the Pavillion. While they packed the student section, I was not impressed with their noise level. I figured it was similar to the way we think about USF...the average student doesn't see it as a big game.  I cant speak for the games that are played at the Wachovia Center.  They play on Big Monday tomorrow, so check it out. I would imagine the atmosphere is quite different for a game against Providence, than it will be the last game of the season vs. West Virginia.

Both of these schools, however, have situations different from ours. Both of their off-campus arenas are significantly farther away from campus than the BC is for us. Neither the Verizon Center or Wachovia Center are within walking distance from campus.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: StillWarriors on February 14, 2010, 09:36:31 AM
I think the BC has a lot to do with it. Nice play to play and see a game, but though not a huge place it has that cavernous feel and isn't real loud.Also, while I think the community/alums support the team well in terms of showing up, it isn't a rowdy group by any means. With that part of the crowd making up the.majority of the place, it doesn't lend itself to a crazy crowd.

As to other student sections, ND's students don't support hoops worth a damn except for national tv games. MU's I would think MU's is pretty average
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: Jacks DC on February 14, 2010, 10:15:17 AM
Been to several Georgetown games and their student section is pretty lame.  You can't really tell on TV, but unless they are playing a top 10 opponent on a weekend it is not full.  When MU has played there the past couple years the entire upper section has a lot of yellow.

Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on February 14, 2010, 10:26:02 AM
Quote from: Utile et Dulce on February 14, 2010, 09:18:05 AM
I know this is a question just about students, but when I saw this I thought, "but what about the population? Surely those two schools have more students and bigger metropolitan areas to draw from?" the idea being bigger crowds = more excitement.

StudentsCity Size
Marquette11,516953,328
Georgetown14,246591,833
Villanova10,466778,048


You are vastly understating the size of Philadelphia and the surrounding area.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: Jacks DC on February 14, 2010, 11:00:27 AM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 14, 2010, 10:26:02 AM
You are vastly understating the size of Philadelphia and the surrounding area.

Philly and DC are metropolitan areas with 5-6 million people.  Milwaukee is about 1.5 million.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: Jay Bee on February 14, 2010, 11:02:39 AM
Quote from: Utile et Dulce on February 14, 2010, 09:18:05 AM
I know this is a question just about students, but when I saw this I thought, "but what about the population? Surely those two schools have more students and bigger metropolitan areas to draw from?" the idea being bigger crowds = more excitement.

StudentsCity Size
Marquette11,516953,328
Georgetown14,246591,833
Villanova10,466778,048

I used the surrounding county for the population. The numbers certainly don't tell everything, but these three schools are certainly in the same ballpark.

You're nuts.  Those figures do not come close to illustrating the size of the MKE/DC/Philly metro areas. 
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: spiral97 on February 14, 2010, 11:10:45 AM
Quote from: Utile et Dulce on February 14, 2010, 09:18:05 AM
StudentsCity Size
Marquette11,516953,328
Georgetown14,246591,833
Villanova10,466778,048

I had the same thought as chicos.. you can't compare the city populations but rather the metro areas.. doing that yields the following (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas)):
Metropolitan Statistical Area2008 Population
MarquetteMilwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI1,549,308
GeorgetownWashington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV5,358,130
VillanovaPhiladelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD5,931,427

Hard to see that compare.. another factor going the other way is number of division I basketball schools in those areas.. I'm betting washington and philly metro areas have at least 3 times the number that the milwaukee area does... not sure if that is an equalizer or if it makes the area more excited for basketball.

perhaps a better one is Louisville.. freedom hall is a similar walk from campus (maybe slightly more but I've walked it and saw lots of students doing the same).. while not an NBA arena it does have a similar capacity as the bradley center (18,865 (http://www.uoflsports.com/facilities/lou-facilities-freedom-hall.html) vs 18,600 (http://www.bradleycenter.com/seating/index.asp)) ..    Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN metro population is 1,244,696.. I'm guessing a similar number of division I basketball schools (but I might be missing some).  Only disparity is really the enrollment with Louisville having 21,841 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Louisville#Enrollment_statistics) (boy that's a lot of losers in one place!  :D).

Again.. really tough to compare all the factors involved and make any real relative determination..

Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: krocheck on February 14, 2010, 11:18:13 AM
Instead of looking at the city size you should check out how many seats are in the student sections for these facilities and draw comparison based on that.  MU's student section top to bottom is about 6,000 seats I believe.  That literally means better than half of the student population is needed to fill the section (or 75%+ of the undergrads).  How many bodies do the Georgetown and Nova student section fit?  What % of their student body is needed to fill those?  I would provide those numbers but my Google search failed.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: Chili on February 14, 2010, 11:57:40 AM
Quote from: krocheck on February 14, 2010, 11:18:13 AM
Instead of looking at the city size you should check out how many seats are in the student sections for these facilities and draw comparison based on that.  MU's student section top to bottom is about 6,000 seats I believe.  That literally means better than half of the student population is needed to fill the section (or 75%+ of the undergrads).  How many bodies do the Georgetown and Nova student section fit?  What % of their student body is needed to fill those?  I would provide those numbers but my Google search failed.

It's 4,000 not 6,000.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: krocheck on February 14, 2010, 12:06:17 PM
Thank you.  Still, half the undergraduate population or ~35% of the total student body to fill it.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: groove on February 14, 2010, 12:15:33 PM
I can only go by what i hear on television, i'm down here in north carolina. But you can turn on any college game and the crowd is louder than the marquette crowds this year. It has nothing to do with comparing it to student sections like Duke, etc. It's comparing it to every game on. Hell the Portland crowd last night against St. mary's was better.

It's an NBA regular season type of crowd. Whether it is because of the acoustics of the BC or the type of student crowd or the non-student crowd whatever, the fact of the matter is that the crowd noise is constantly low when compared to the other crowds that I'm hearing night in and night out.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: tower912 on February 14, 2010, 12:32:21 PM
Part of it is the lay out and acoustics at the BC.   Part of it is the students.   For big games with ranked teams etc, the place rocks.    But it takes a special effort.    If the students are only at 85%, it seems dead.    The irony for me in all of this is I can remember booing the alumni for not gettng off of their a$$e$ at the Mecca bridging the Majerus/Dukiet years.    Can you imagine what this generation of student would sound like at the BC if they had to watch basketball that putrid?
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: Peoples_Republic_Warrior on February 14, 2010, 12:38:06 PM
How can you compare what you hear on TV and base the quality of a student section entirely on that? Tons of factors come into play with what you hear on tv--the arena size, the acoustics of the arena, placement of the student section in relation to the guys calling the game. All in all, Marquette has a great student section. We always rank highly in student attendance, our fans follow the team religiously, and they can make it LOUD in the bradley center. I'm a current student, I wasn't at the game last night because I'm studying abroad in Madrid but if I was in mke I would've been there several hours early, as I'm sure many many students were. To make the argument that our student section is worse than others based on how loud it seems from the TV is an awful one. Come to a big game some time and you'll see the student section at it's best. i.e. Georgetown game 2 years ago, Georgetown, UCONN, UW last year. Can't say too much about this year, but looking at the pictures it looked like a pretty good crowd last night
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: texaswarrior74 on February 14, 2010, 12:40:22 PM
It's such as shame because when we played at the old Arena it was always written up in SI and other publications as one of the toughest "snake pits" to play in. Kerry Kirkpatrick of SI did an article about it and MU was the featured team/venue.

Al tried to play UCLA and Wooden would not agree to a home and home.....no one wanted to play at the Arena. We managed to have some great home and homes with other top teams like Tennessee (the Bernie and Ernie teams), Memphis State (Gene Barstow), South Carolina (McGuire), Long Beach State (Tarkanian), Minnesota (Musselman) and even Jacksonville in the Artis Gilmore days.

We had our 61 game home win streak broken by Notre Dame which somehow always managed to have their games in Milwaukee scheduled when students were still away (or the Saturday before coming back) from Christmas break yet ND students were always in session when we played there.

You'd leave the arena with your ears ringing from all the noise.....it was great.

Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: Brewtown Andy on February 14, 2010, 12:40:53 PM
Quote from: tower912 on February 14, 2010, 12:32:21 PM
Part of it is the lay out and acoustics at the BC.   

Can anyone make comparisons between the BC and Amway Arena in Orlando or Arco Arena or Sacramento or Energy Solutions Arena in Salt Lake City?  Those are the only NBA buildings that are comparable in age.
Title: Change the music!
Post by: dw3dw3dw3 on February 14, 2010, 12:53:39 PM
Who can I send some sample songs to?.... Kids want to feel like they are at a party, for the most part they are willing to go, but other than us beating the other team, I think they just want to have fun. Jump around, Cotton Eye Joe, cha cha slide, and jamonie  are old school, they don't get played at college parties anymore, they just aren't fun songs to today's youth. Do a focus group or something. They should at least have a new decade, new music rule in place.  I'm sure jump around guy can get into another song. The rest of the audience feeds off the student section for the most part... The louder they get, the louder everyone will get.

Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: chren21 on February 14, 2010, 12:58:46 PM
DW.  I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: Skatastrophy on February 14, 2010, 01:02:24 PM
Once again I was terribly disappointed with the student section.  You'd think with that many people there they'd be able to make a reasonable amount of noise.  It's not good when the season ticket holders by me are making more noise than the students.

Ah well.  Hopefully next year's freshman class brings in some kids with some passion and some lungs.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: Tugg Speedman on February 14, 2010, 01:09:49 PM
Quote from: Peoples_Republic_Warrior on February 14, 2010, 12:38:06 PM
How can you compare what you hear on TV and base the quality of a student section entirely on that? Tons of factors come into play with what you hear on tv--the arena size, the acoustics of the arena, placement of the student section in relation to the guys calling the game. All in all, Marquette has a great student section. We always rank highly in student attendance, our fans follow the team religiously, and they can make it LOUD in the bradley center. I'm a current student, I wasn't at the game last night because I'm studying abroad in Madrid but if I was in mke I would've been there several hours early, as I'm sure many many students were. To make the argument that our student section is worse than others based on how loud it seems from the TV is an awful one. Come to a big game some time and you'll see the student section at it's best. i.e. Georgetown game 2 years ago, Georgetown, UCONN, UW last year. Can't say too much about this year, but looking at the pictures it looked like a pretty good crowd last night

+1000

The student section doesn't look good on TV.  Why?  Because students sit in the endzone and not between the baselines so you don't see them bouncing up and down on TV like yo see at Duke.  Also the layout at the BC has the fans set back from the court and not on top of it.  I believe this is what the complaining is all about, the optics on TV.  As is noted here, Villanova and Georgetown fans are not really any better.  So, if you want to change that, let MUscoop raise a few million dollars to buy hundreds of prime seats and have students sit in them.

Also, the acoustics of the BC  due to the high ceiling are at fault regarding the noise.  The BC was designed as a multi-use stadium so the high ceilings were necessary.  If it was bball only, it would have a lower flat ceiling that the noise would bounce off and the same energy now would sound much louder.

Question - I've heard that Pottawatomie was think about building a Stadium and trying to entice the Bucks to play in it.  Any truth to this? If they do build a stadium (especially if its in the valley), would MU consider  moving?
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on February 14, 2010, 01:14:27 PM
Well then the Alumni should put down there beers and get louder
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 14, 2010, 01:27:30 PM
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on February 14, 2010, 12:40:22 PM
It's such as shame because when we played at the old Arena it was always written up in SI and other publications as one of the toughest "snake pits" to play in. Kerry Kirkpatrick of SI did an article about it and MU was the featured team/venue.

Al tried to play UCLA and Wooden would not agree to a home and home.....no one wanted to play at the Arena. We managed to have some great home and homes with other top teams like Tennessee (the Bernie and Ernie teams), Memphis State (Gene Barstow), South Carolina (McGuire), Long Beach State (Tarkanian), Minnesota (Musselman) and even Jacksonville in the Artis Gilmore days.

We had our 61 game home win streak broken by Notre Dame which somehow always managed to have their games in Milwaukee scheduled when students were still away (or the Saturday before coming back) from Christmas break yet ND students were always in session when we played there.

You'd leave the arena with your ears ringing from all the noise.....it was great.





Dude, we won 81 straight at home.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: nathanziarek on February 16, 2010, 08:18:26 PM
Thanks for the corrections all. I simply looked at the county the school was in and didn't really think twice about the fact that the numbers were pretty far off from what I'd guess them to be. What good is this internet if you can't just trust it blindly?
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: Warrior3211 on February 16, 2010, 09:51:12 PM
Actually I'm at court level near the student section at every game and the BC is actually pretty loud.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: augoman on February 16, 2010, 10:09:29 PM
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on February 14, 2010, 12:40:22 PM
It's such as shame because when we played at the old Arena it was always written up in SI and other publications as one of the toughest "snake pits" to play in. Kerry Kirkpatrick of SI did an article about it and MU was the featured team/venue.

Al tried to play UCLA and Wooden would not agree to a home and home.....no one wanted to play at the Arena. We managed to have some great home and homes with other top teams like Tennessee (the Bernie and Ernie teams), Memphis State (Gene Barstow), South Carolina (McGuire), Long Beach State (Tarkanian), Minnesota (Musselman) and even Jacksonville in the Artis Gilmore days.

We had our 61 game home win streak broken by Notre Dame which somehow always managed to have their games in Milwaukee scheduled when students were still away (or the Saturday before coming back) from Christmas break yet ND students were always in session when we played there.

You'd leave the arena with your ears ringing from all the noise.....it was great.




As I recall, the article quoted several of the coaches regarding playing MU at the arena and the comment was made "..., and those drums, those darn drums!..."  referring to the 'war dance' the Warriors used everytime we were on defense.  I think the lighting was much better in the Arena as well- though probably not as conducive to good tv telecasts- as the court was well lit and the stands were dark.  The BC is more like a rec room in someones basement.  You could read a book in your seats during a game.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: Shanunu on February 18, 2010, 02:10:07 AM
As one of the most passionate MU Bball fans that I know, and as a current student, I am torn between feeling exactly the way that many feel about the student section. While it is true that during lesser games, the SS can be weak, for many of the important Big East games, we can be a force to be reckoned with. I wish I could say that I contribute to the loudness at our end of the stadium, but I have usually yelled myself hoarse after the first five minutes of game time.

With that being said, I do wish that the students always stood during time-outs, that nobody left early, that cheers were started much quicker on every possession, and that we could be packed in tighter. As the student section is now, there are too many wide aisles separating the students into small sections (having columns two seats wide is ridiculous), but I realize that that is the way the BC is designed, and obviously can't be changed. Also, it bothers me when people wear jerseys or sweatshirts that are not gold.

When the SS feels it, we can be crazy, and I would love it if that happened at all times,  to make the BC one of the most uninviting places for teams to play. So, I will just continue to jump up and down and scream myself hoarse for MU, and hopefully some will follow suit.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: PaintTouches on February 18, 2010, 08:57:33 AM
THIS is what our student section look like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhDZ91hST-w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhDZ91hST-w)
(skip to the 3 minute mark)
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: ErickJD08 on February 18, 2010, 09:07:15 AM
I completely understand that basketball is still a business in the NCAA but how about during the weekdays, they give the SS the first level and during the weekends, they get the endzone.  Just a thought
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: RealChiliWarrior on February 18, 2010, 09:36:27 AM

Quote from: texaswarrior74 on February 14, 2010, 12:40:22 PM
It's such as shame because when we played at the old Arena it was always written up in SI and other publications as one of the toughest "snake pits" to play in. Kerry Kirkpatrick of SI did an article about it and MU was the featured team/venue.

Al tried to play UCLA and Wooden would not agree to a home and home.....no one wanted to play at the Arena. We managed to have some great home and homes with other top teams like Tennessee (the Bernie and Ernie teams), Memphis State (Gene Barstow), South Carolina (McGuire), Long Beach State (Tarkanian), Minnesota (Musselman) and even Jacksonville in the Artis Gilmore days.

We had our 61 game home win streak broken by Notre Dame which somehow always managed to have their games in Milwaukee scheduled when students were still away (or the Saturday before coming back) from Christmas break yet ND students were always in session when we played there.

You'd leave the arena with your ears ringing from all the noise.....it was great.


The most raucous crowd I remember at the Arena was Al's midnight exhibition game featuring The Russians Are Coming.
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: StillWarriors on February 18, 2010, 09:38:25 AM
Quote from: pux90mex on February 18, 2010, 08:57:33 AM
THIS is what our student section look like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhDZ91hST-w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhDZ91hST-w)
(skip to the 3 minute mark)

that is awesome
Title: Re: MU Student Section Question
Post by: BrewCity83 on February 18, 2010, 10:34:05 AM
That is awesome!

Cale mi je zvezdas, stariji brat je zvezdas a ja od kako znam za sebe navijam za PARTIZAN! Izgleda da je komsija Grobar zasluzan za to! Hvala ti komsija!!! Mogo sam da se rodim kao cigan. . . :D