MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TallTitan34 on February 02, 2010, 02:26:37 PM
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From Rosiak's pregame blog:
The recovery of Chris Otule. I'm not saying the sophomore center will be back, or even suit up. But he's getting much closer to a possible return, and he could very well wind up taking off his redshirt like Cadougan did. If you're there early, watch him as he goes through pre-game workouts. He's moving around pretty well, and hasn't appeared to have any setbacks. He could be a valuable asset as a backup for Butler and Hayward down the stretch.
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We're starting to look more & more like a darkhorse...
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OK...when I read this I thought you meant he might transfer.
This is good news.
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It's exciting to think so. Then adding in Mbao to the mix when he becomes healthy to complete the roster would definitely benefit us, at least from a practice/preparation standpoint. I mean it never hurts to have 10 guys at practice right?
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Is this the best thing in the long run? Im not sure. I mean, I guess have Otule and Mboa in different classes is good. But don't we all wish we could have had Barro last year, regardless of his minor contribution as a frosh?
At the same time, MU needs bigs out there so at least big man recruits can see that Buzz will actually put a big man on the floor. Undoubtedly would not hurt to have players over 6'6' on the floor at some point.
Who knows the right answers, but regardless of whether he returns this season, glad he is progressing.
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Is this the best thing in the long run? Im not sure. I mean, I guess have Otule and Mboa in different classes is good. But don't we all wish we could have had Barro last year, regardless of his minor contribution as a frosh?
At the same time, MU needs bigs out there so at least big man recruits can see that Buzz will actually put a big man on the floor. Undoubtedly would not hurt to have players over 6'6' on the floor at some point.
I also have mixed emotions. Part of me says come back this year lets make a tourney run, yet another says this will affect the recruiting front and means we will need to land a big who by his sophomore year can start at the 4. I guess this is all just speculation at this point as Rosiak was just wondering whether or not he would return this season like Cadougan, but it couldn't hurt.
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Chris already lost his frosh year. hard to see him burning the redshirt for a short soph season as well.....???
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There's still 9 games left, not including any postseason or conference tournament games. Tons of playing time left.
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Chris already lost his frosh year. hard to see him burning the redshirt for a short soph season as well.....???
Yes but ... maybe he wants to complete college and get to the next phase of life. Also, here's to believing that Buzz will have better 4s and 5s in the pipeline in the next couple of years and Otule will have made his contribution to the team by then.
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If Rosiak is putting it on his blog I think it a virtual certainty that Otule is going to play again this year.
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I hope he red shirts this season. I think he would benefit from having another season of eligibility. He's still pretty raw and I don't know how much he could really help this year. MU would benefit by him having 3, not 2, years left after this season. (But if he wants to only stay 4 years at MU, then so be it.)
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It's exciting to think so. Then adding in Mbao to the mix when he becomes healthy to complete the roster would definitely benefit us, at least from a practice/preparation standpoint. I mean it never hurts to have 10 guys at practice right?
I thought that red-shirts can still practice with the team, right? If so, it doesn't make much sense to let him play this year just so he can practice on the team.
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If he plays as much as Junior has since he took off his redshirt, then no.
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He's coming off a broken foot, has not played since November, hasn't played in anything other than garbage time in his entire career, and Buzz has a rotation that in theory he could provide to but in reality will not be given anything but garbage minutes in. How many minutes are we looking at this year? 20? 30? He could probably play a whole lot more than that as a 5th year senior. I still don't really buy the "maybe he only wants to stay four years" argument. Ask him on Senior Day 2012 when he's just starting to be a very good player if he wants to stay for a fifth season and he'd probably kick his sophomore butt for not being patient and getting spot minutes of garbage time instead of a season's worth of starts.
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There's still 9 games left, not including any postseason or conference tournament games. Tons of playing time left.
Even if he came back tomorrow and was close to 100%, it's hard to believe his insertion into the rotation would be that much quicker than Junior's. So burn 3-4 games with minimal playing time and there's only about 5 games + postseason left for Otule this season. And that assumes he clears tomorrow and plays.
And on a more general note... I don't know what it is, but sometimes it seems like Marquette and redshirts are mutually exclusive. Can anyone remember a single non-transfer redshirt taken by Marquette in the last decade? Fitz, Acker, & McMorrow had transfer redshirts. Wade had a partial-qualifier year. Mortenson is the only one I can find that redshirted by choice or because of injury. Anyone else?
Honestly the only players that I really feel should have redshirted were Barro and now Mbao, but still it surprises me that I can only think of a single guy redshirting in the last 10 years.
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If he plays as much as Junior has since he took off his redshirt, then no.
As if what he's played is indicative of what he will play? It's only been 2 games, and very little practice time.
Here were Buzz's exact words - he hasn't strayed from them so far...
"As of today, could he help us in January? Maybe a little bit. Would he be able to help us in February? I believe in my heart that he could. Could he be the difference in 1 or 2 wins? I would say probably so. '
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Do college basketball players redshirt often? My impression is that, while college football is full of redshirts, college basketball is not.
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If the doctors give the ok and he wants to come back, he comes back. Can't predict what the team will be like two/three years from now. You going to force him to come back a fifth year when NCAA coaches can bail whenever they want.
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If the doctors give the ok and he wants to come back, he comes back. Can't predict what the team will be like two/three years from now. You going to force him to come back a fifth year when NCAA coaches can bail whenever they want.
On the other hand, the player is going to want to play, whether or not it is in his own best interests. The coach is supposed to look out for the player and make an informed decision based on what's best for both the player and the team.
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I think he should redshirt. I cannot imagine him making any meaningful contribution this year. I didn't see anything in his 8 minutes in a 46 point win over Grambling St. his last time out that made me think he would be a key contributor in crucial Big East games.
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I was suspicious of the Cadougan return because we are okay at guard. Unless there was another injury I was a fan of keeping Cadougan on red-shirt.
Otule... hmm. That is a different story. We have a shot for the NCAA tourney and we are SO thin up front. He isn't going to average 20 minutes a game but 10-15 minutes in a single game could be the difference this year. How times have we watched Lazar or Jimmy give up a basket to a big because they were afraid of fouling. Otule will be able to defend and not worry about that.
Added, you have ONE sophmore on the entire roster. Even if Buzz recruits a JUCO this year that is only two juniors next year (can't count Cadougan!!!). Would be nice to balance this class as well.
If he is willing to play he could be the difference maker between NIT and NCAA. Just him playing 10 minutes each game could do it.
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It wouldn't hurt us if he came back.
my crystal ball doesn't foresee any reason not to.
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How times have we watched Lazar or Jimmy give up a basket to a big because they were afraid of fouling. Otule will be able to defend and not worry about that.
Disagree. Otule is still foul-prone and does have to worry about that every time he defends. However, Otule does give you an option to defend and "reallocate" up to 5 fouls per game that might otherwise end up in Lazar's or Jimmy's statline (and would make the difference b/t those two being in or not in foul trouble at the end of close games, ergo the difference between W's and L's).
If he is willing to play he could be the difference maker between NIT and NCAA. Just him playing 10 minutes each game could do it.
Agree 100%. See above.
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Do college basketball players redshirt often? My impression is that, while college football is full of redshirts, college basketball is not.
Count Chocula redshirts a big 18-year-old stiff just about every year over at UW-Moscow.
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Otule could have been the difference maker against Syracuse and maybe FSU. Even 8 minutes, 5 fouls, 3 rebounds and 2 blocks could have won that game. If he and his family want him to play, and the doctor's 100% clear him, turn him loose. He can be our big Rottweiler puppy running around like crazy, wrestling other bigs, and slobbering.....ok, the analogy just broke down.
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As long as his foot is healed, bring him back.
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This is different than Junior because we already have decent options at PG. We have NO options at center. I think he could play an important role in this team and be what we need to make the NCAAs.
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Otule could have been the difference maker against Syracuse and maybe FSU. Even 8 minutes, 5 fouls, 3 rebounds and 2 blocks could have won that game. If he and his family want him to play, and the doctor's 100% clear him, turn him loose. He can be our big Rottweiler puppy running around like crazy, wrestling other bigs, and slobbering.....ok, the analogy just broke down.
We all wish he could have not broken his foot and played all year. It didn't happen. If he comes back he'll be extremely limited, at least at first (we've seen this story before, to assume otherwise would be to go against all evidence). Is a 75% capacity Otule a difference maker against either of those teams?
Is there any way he plays more than 100 minutes the rest of the season? Is it really worth it to spend a whole year on less than 100 minutes of PT? And if it was, would those 100 minutes be productive minutes, or Mbakwe minutes?
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This line of thinking confuses me. "Mbakwe minutes" are the exact reason to take off the red shirt, beacuse who knows what the future holds. I am not saying that Chris Otule is going to pull out of MU at the beginning of the fall semester and then go to CC in Miami, con Tubby Smith into giving him a scholarship, and then beat up his girlfirend, and get all his friends to lie to the DA about it, but I am absolutely sure that it is possible.
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I'm with Marquette Dano above. I was a NO on the Cadougan return because I didn't see where he would get his minutes, or have the chance as a Freshman to make more significant contributions than Seniors Acker and Coobie were making. He also was a highly recruited kid that I think could benefit the program more in being here for 4 full years, hopefully playing with some heralded bigs that I didn't see on this year's roster.
I'd favor bringing Otule back however, assuming the docs, the coaches and his family all bless it because he is a big. First, he's an off the radar bloomer that Buzz found. We should be able to get guys like him 'in the pipeline.' Also, it's not only the extra fouls and extra minutes that would be afforded to JFB and Lazar, it's the fact that they wouldn't have to play tentatively in protecting the fouls that they have, which has happened a ton already this year and is likely to happen again as we move towards a critical finish of the campaign.
I'd love to have three forwards on the floor at the game's critical juncture as I think it would make a difference. What if Jimmy or Lazar were guarding Stovall (a 6'-5" forward) on either of the two bombs he threw in for DePaul in the last ten seconds instead of Buycks? In the last game, at a critical point in the game there was a weak side rebound where DJO was called for a foul on Stanley Robinson where he had position but just couldn't box out. I am convinced that we have been hurt a number of times this year in these big vs. small scenarios. Otule could help alleviate that.
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I'd love to have three forwards on the floor at the game's critical juncture as I think it would make a difference. What if Jimmy or Lazar were guarding Stovall (a 6'-5" forward) on either of the two bombs he threw in for DePaul in the last ten seconds instead of Buycks? In the last game, at a critical point in the game there was a weak side rebound where DJO was called for a foul on Stanley Robinson where he had position but just couldn't box out. I am convinced that we have been hurt a number of times this year in these big vs. small scenarios. Otule could help alleviate that.
Disagree. Otule has size but he is not ready to make a difference in these crucial late game situations and I do not see Buzz giving him these minutes over players like Buycks and DJO. He's not there yet. Given all the talk of missed free throws I find it hard to believe Buzz would want a 17% FT shooter in a close game.
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You really can't worry about 2 or 3 years down the road. What if Buzz has a chance to use Otule's scholarship for a 5 star center or for a DWade for 12-13 season? What if Otule never developes? Do we want him here an extra year? Does Otule want to be here 5 years? Lots of moving parts and too many what ifs but if the kid wants to play this year, let him play. I will support his decision 100% because he will make an informed decision on his future.
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If history holds true buzz doesn't care for the idea of red shirting if a guy can play. He's 5 fouls down low. We could need that.
Also, what if he's good to play. Doesn't. And then re-brakes his foot next year. This could be his only chance to play in a tourney game.
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Mboa
As an aside, I wonder how long it will take for the correct sequence of vowels in this name to become the norm? "Dwyane" took about a year, and we're now almost rid of the "Otule apostrophe" a year and a half later.
Disagree. Otule has size but he is not ready to make a difference in these crucial late game situations and I do not see Buzz giving him these minutes over players like Buycks and DJO. He's not there yet. Given all the talk of missed free throws I find it hard to believe Buzz would want a 17% FT shooter in a close game.
Do you really think that Otule will be a FT recipient in late game situations? He's not going to get an inbound pass--and doubtful he's even in the game in late game situations. The only chance I see for a late game appearance is to take a foul.
My guess is that his only opportunity to shoot FTs in late game situations is if another player misses their shot, Otule gets the rebound, and is subsequently fouled on the putback. Of course, that begs the question as to whether an offensive rebound leading to a 17% chance on the FTs is better than not getting the rebound at all because we're so undersized inside otherwise.
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As an aside, I wonder how long it will take for the correct sequence of vowels in this name to become the norm? "Dwyane" took about a year, and we're now almost rid of the "Otule apostrophe" a year and a half later.
Second semester sophomore year. At least that's when "Cubillon" and "Cubillion" stopped, though a few have appeared recently.
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If Buzz thought we were desperately in need of size right now we'd be seeing a lot more of EWill and Fulce. Its not just big guys, its big guys who can play in the Big East.
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If Buzz thought we were desperately in need of size right now we'd be seeing a lot more of EWill and Fulce. Its not just big guys, its big guys who can play in the Big East.
We are seeing minutes from Fulce. I think we would see even more from Otule. Otule is much bigger than Fulce and can legtimately guard a center, where Fulce cannot. I am not saying Otule is an all Big East defender but he at least is a presence in there than Fulce is not against a player 6'10".
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I guess the question is more for Buzz: is this going to get lineups of Acker-DJO-Butler-Hayward-Otule on the floor, or is Otule simply not able to/not ready to contribute more than 5 minutes of garbage time every other game? If his size is used and it even gets rid of the necessity of Acker and Cubillan sharing the floor for 27 minutes per game, it could be worth bringing him back. If he's going to get that aforementioned garbage time, he's not really even playing, so don't waste a potential year of eligibility if all he's going to be taking are EWill's hard to come by minutes. If he would want to stay only four years, then it's up to him to go; at least he has the option to stay in two years instead of 20 minutes of meaningless, ineffective play getting in the way. If there is a good chance he actually can contribute 10 minutes per game in late February and March and make a difference by all means go ahead and start playing him.
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We are seeing minutes from Fulce. I think we would see even more from Otule. Otule is much bigger than Fulce and can legtimately guard a center, where Fulce cannot. I am not saying Otule is an all Big East defender but he at least is a presence in there than Fulce is not against a player 6'10".
Are we? Fulce is way ahead of EWill and Otule and he played 5 mins against UConn (a huge team) and picked up 4 fouls. He gets about 10 mins a game in BE play. If I had to pick someone to defend Stanley Robinson or Gavin Edwards I would take Fulce at 6'7" over Otule at 6'10" in a heartbeat. I would take Hayward at 6'5" over either of them.
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I'd say save the redshirt and give EWill whatever minutes Otule would have gotten. It doesn't make sense to bring him back now.
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I'd say save the redshirt and give EWill whatever minutes Otule would have gotten. It doesn't make sense to bring him back now.
What if Otule breaks his foot again in practice next November? Lets get some ROI NOW!
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One thing everyone needs to keep in mind here is the NCAA's strange requirements on the medical redshirt. You can't just sit out in order to attempt to get the medical redshirt, you have to be sitting out because you are physically unable to play.
In addition to the 30% and half of season rules we talked about before, there's another requirement in order to get a medical redshirt....the injury the player sustained must be a season ending injury. That means if a kid gets injured, but receives medical clearance could comeback before the end of the season and chooses not to in order to keep his eligibility, the NCAA could decide that his injury was not season ending, and thus he's not eligible for a redshirt even if he meets the other requirements of the rule.
Just because we keep him on the bench does not necessarily mean he would be granted a medical redshirt year, that's up to the NCAA.
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Wow. How often do they do that?
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No idea how often they've done it, but has happened in the past.
The point is, if he gets cleared to play by the docs before the end of the season, you pretty much have to play him or you risk getting absolutely nothing out of him for a year should the NCAA decide that he doesn't meet the requirements.
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No idea how often they've done it, but has happened in the past.
The point is, if he gets cleared to play by the docs before the end of the season, you pretty much have to play him or you risk getting absolutely nothing out of him for a year should the NCAA decide that he doesn't meet the requirements.
Could that be why Jr came back?
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Juniors situation is not the same since he hadn't played this year before he got hurt.
He could have redshirted if thats what he wanted.
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Could that be why Jr came back?
Junior was going to be a regular redshirt since he hadn't played in a game. Had no bearing on his return.
As far as Otule goes, anything that can help keep Lazar and Jimmy out of foul trouble is fine by me.
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Could that be why Jr came back?
Junior came back because he wanted to come back. Even though he was cleared and thus unlikely to receive a medical redshirt year, he hadn't played in a game at all, so he still had the option of sitting out and counting the year as a regular redshirt year. He wasn't interested in that, he wanted to come back, so he did.
Otule doesn't have the option, because he already played this year before sustaining his injury. That playing time eliminates any chance of a traditional redshirt, and leaves the medical redshirt as only option for not counting this year against his eligibility.
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You really can't worry about 2 or 3 years down the road. What if Buzz has a chance to use Otule's scholarship for a 5 star center or for a DWade for 12-13 season? What if Otule never developes? Do we want him here an extra year? Does Otule want to be here 5 years? Lots of moving parts and too many what ifs but if the kid wants to play this year, let him play. I will support his decision 100% because he will make an informed decision on his future.
I agree, I see no reason to redshirt him. It is not like we are saving some extraordinary talent, basically all he has shown us so far is that he is an injury prone big body. Redshirting in basketball is a huge decision because of the scholarship limits, why potentially hamstring our 2012 class with one less scholly on a project big man who gets injured all the time?
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This line of thinking confuses me. "Mbakwe minutes" are the exact reason to take off the red shirt, beacuse who knows what the future holds. I am not saying that Chris Otule is going to pull out of MU at the beginning of the fall semester and then go to CC in Miami, con Tubby Smith into giving him a scholarship, and then beat up his girlfirend, and get all his friends to lie to the DA about it, but I am absolutely sure that it is possible.
Sorry, what I meant by "Mbakwe minutes" was ineffective, useless minutes on the court. I was not referring in any way to the mess that came in the postseason after he "came back."
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I'd like to see a healthy Otule play this year - but if the decision points that way, Otule will be out of sync - and was still raw when he did play in the beginning of the season, but was making some progress. Not much re bouding, not much blocking, not much scoring, and foul prone. So what do we gain? His height, becuase of where he is, is neutralized; he still needs to develop an offensive game.
Just throw in EWill if we need more foul-absoprtion. He's better (marginally) defending, has some nice offensive moves, can rebound - and his last game he played the best he has played.
We have nothing to do with redshirting or unredshirting a player - so whatever they decide is fine with me. I think Otule can develop into a good player.