1) DJO is the inverse of Jerel McNeal.
* Jerel was not a great leaper but was very quick with quick hands and feet that lead to many steals on defense. On offense his quick feet and body control could slash through defenses and get off shots in tight places that were fairly high percentage which helped us score with no post play with his ability to create shots anywhere on the court. In addition all his steals led to many fast break easy buckets for our team.
* I first saw DJO last year on a Youtube video showing him doing an explosive reverse dunk showing off his vertical. However DJO is not very coordinated in my opinion and hasn't shown any of the raw jumping ability we saw on that video. Every time he tries to drive he seems to lose his footing and then either takes an awkward fading back to his left shot or throws a turnover. On defense he never makes a swipe at the ball as he is not good/quick enough on defense to gamble and instead just tries to stay in position with his feet....this is frustrating to me as DePaul was handling the ball pretty loosely on Wednesday and yet we never made their guards uncomfortable as our team never forces steals for easy lay-ups this year....last year we had a feast on layups and dunks off turnovers. I think DJO is closer to Steve Novak or Joe Chapman than he is to Jerel McNeal. I think he's still a great/effective player but he's just limited mostly to a perimeter oriented guard with a very effective jump shot.
2) I understand Erik Williams may not be ready but I don't see how he could give us any less than what Fulce currently gives us. Fulce is another guy who dazzles you in dunk contests with no defense but shows almost no athletic ability when he plays. I think he is a great team guy, a smart player and a role player that doesn't force the action. Having said this how much would we lose by putting in Eric Williams instead of Fulce for stretches long enough for Eric to get in a rhythm of the game to see if he can bring anything more to the table that what Fulce gives us?
3) People rip on Acker but at least Acker shows some flashes at times with a 3 point shot, a good pass after penetration and tear drop floater that goes in on a drive. I'm still waiting for Cooby to show us anything of value besides making a spot up 3. Buycks should be getting all of Cooby's minutes as at least Buycks has some of Jerel's old slashing scoring capabilities and can also hit the three and is a taller better defender.
4) The two biggest losses to our program will be losing Lazar to graduation and Tarik Black to Memphi$. Lazar is our only physical rebounding presence on this team and as much as we might be improved next year with the graduation of Acker and Cooby and the implementation of a great freshman class (and Junior...which I liked what I saw yesterday from him) we might get worse next year because of the void of Lazar graduating. Granted we don't know what Otule and Mbao will give us but we pretty much know by now not to expect much from them but hope to be pleasantly surprised if either become good/effective players at the Big East level.
Tarik Black was just what the doctor ordered as a 6'8, muscular, athletic forward who could run the floor, rebound and score (much like the role Lazar has played for us). I know at the end of the day he might have needed to stay close to home but I still don't know how it leaked that we were leading and two weeks later he ends up at Memphi$ after they signed a couple other stars at his position. I hope nothing more sinister went on but with Memphi$ you never know.
I know Buzz will try to find someone good to help at the 4 & 5 in the late recruiting cycle but with kids committing to the majors years in advance now I'm just not sure he'll be able to get anything more than another Otule and Mbao type of project which won't help us much if any next year.
5) Syracuse was very good and talented and I think we played the best we possibly could but are a couple horses short at the 4/5 in handling a team like that. DePaul was very bad and was one of the hardest to watch games I ever had to sit through and then dwell on afterwards....such is the life of a die hard MU bball fan who lives and dies with the team during every winter.
Stopped reading when you called DJO uncoordinated. Stunning in its idiocy. DJO is our best player and absolutely a better offensive player than McNeal, who you compared him to. Also, advocating "gambling" on defense instead of staying in proper defensive position? Are you drunk?
DJO will play in the NBA, you can make book on that.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 24, 2010, 03:29:44 PM
Stopped reading when you called DJO uncoordinated. Stunning in its idiocy. DJO is our best player and absolutely a better offensive player than McNeal, who you compared him to. Also, advocating "gambling" on defense instead of staying in proper defensive position? Are you drunk?
DJO will play in the NBA, you can make book on that.
have to agree with the fact that calling DJO uncoordinated is pretty dumb. Do you have any clue on the athletic ability it takes to score even say 10 points in a D1 collge basketball game?
Also the sad thing is you are comparing DJO after 18 collge bball games to Jerel who played in aabout 140 of them. Jerel is by far, with little competiton ,the lowest IQ player to every play for Mu. A basketball fan that never saw jerel before would have to swear he was a freshmen based on his almost zero basketball IQ even as a Senior. DJO will be better than Jerel was as a senior by next year. Djo needs to get better on defense and pass the ball alittle better out of the drive and the double team. However, after being infuruiated by Jerels terrible decisons for 4 years, Djo is a budding star. His next two years are going to be special expecial when we add vander and Junior.
Quote from: duanewade on January 24, 2010, 02:58:30 PM
2) I understand Erik Williams may not be ready but I don't see how he could give us any less than what Fulce currently gives us. Fulce is another guy who dazzles you in dunk contests with no defense but shows almost no athletic ability when he plays. I think he is a great team guy, a smart player and a role player that doesn't force the action. Having said this how much would we lose by putting in Eric Williams instead of Fulce for stretches long enough for Eric to get in a rhythm of the game to see if he can bring anything more to the table that what Fulce gives us?
I think the coaches, who watch them both in practice every day, have a much better understanding of why one is playing ahead of the other.
Buzzo trying to recruit a 4 or 5 is not good enough. He must land at least two.
I think your 4th point is the most important. Losing Lazar is huge as we do not have anyone to fill his position.
Tarik Black is a moot point. You canot miss what you never had. Lazar's graduation will be a tremendous void to fill.
Stopped reading when you called DJO uncoordinated. Stunning in its idiocy. DJO is our best player and absolutely a better offensive player than McNeal, who you compared him to. Also, advocating "gambling" on defense instead of staying in proper defensive position? Are you drunk?
DJO will play in the NBA, you can make book on that....
Mr. PR I respect you as we both have a strong hate for Tom Crean.....but my points about DJO were on the mark as I said he is a great player but not an effective dribbler, slasher, defender or penetrator and have a full season of game film to back it up. On defense if you don't go for steals occasionally the offense will get into too comfortable and in a rhythm....much like in the NFL where you have to mix up blitzes and standard defense to keep the offense out of a rhythm. I hope DJO does improve (but I don't see leaps and bounds improvement from him) and what position will he play in the NBA? Jerel McNeal was a better ball handler, passer and defender and than DJO yet they said he was not a 1 and too short and not a good enough shooter to be a 2. Jerel McNeal was also 2nd team All American. So how does a 6'2 DJO play in the NBA when he's clearly not a 1 and the average 2 in the NBA is 6'5+ with better overall skills/talent than DJO....these are the same questions that Jerel ran into and led him to playing in Belgium and not the NBA.
PRN is absolutely correct. DJO will play in the NBA.
DJO, at this moment, won't play in the NBA. He has the shooting ability, but there's something funny with his dribble, posture, and footwork when he tries to get past his defender.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on January 24, 2010, 04:04:22 PM
PRN is absolutely correct. DJO will play in the NBA.
at what position? I agree with the OP that DJO does not look smooth when driving or even on fast breaks when he dribbles the ball at chest height
I couldn't disagree more about the uncoordinated comment about DJO. He is a smooth operator and I think he will become a stronger finisher next year. He is good now and has tons of potential.
Harward is really good and versitile but I think the biggest void he will be leaving next year will be his emotional leadership. The three amigos and Hayward would be able to bang the war drum to get the team going. Now the three amigos left and I only see that out of Hayward and no one else. I wonder who is going to take the reigns next year.
I agree with the Williams and Fulce situation. Fulce is pretty bad on defense and he looks just as clueless with the ball in his hands at time as Burke did last year. Yesterday, I saw Fulce get the bad two feet from the basket with no one on him and just passed it out for for three. He looked so scared to touch the ball. I wouldn't mind give the freshmen some more looks
Finally, the bigs situation is troublesome but it takes time when you have NOTHING. We did have some bad luck with injuries. Buzz is putting the effort to get bigs and the tide will eventually turn.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on January 24, 2010, 04:10:50 PM
DJO, at this moment, won't play in the NBA. He has the shooting ability, but there's something funny with his dribble, posture, and footwork when he tries to get past his defender.
Then I guess its fortunate hes not a senior.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 24, 2010, 03:39:14 PM
have to agree with the fact that calling DJO uncoordinated is pretty dumb. Do you have any clue on the athletic ability it takes to score even say 10 points in a D1 collge basketball game?
Also the sad thing is you are comparing DJO after 18 collge bball games to Jerel who played in aabout 140 of them. Jerel is by far, with little competiton ,the lowest IQ player to every play for Mu. A basketball fan that never saw jerel before would have to swear he was a freshmen based on his almost zero basketball IQ even as a Senior. DJO will be better than Jerel was as a senior by next year. Djo needs to get better on defense and pass the ball alittle better out of the drive and the double team. However, after being infuruiated by Jerels terrible decisons for 4 years, Djo is a budding star. His next two years are going to be special expecial when we add vander and Junior.
Really? Lowest IQ player to ever play at MU? The All-time leading scorer in school history? A Second Team All American and BE Defensive Player of the Year. I understand he made plenty of bonehead plays and turned the ball over quite a bit, but REALLY?? You've managed to one up yourself, good work
DJO is good, I said he was an emerging star after his second game at MU. He can shoot the lights out, perhaps better than anyone I've seen at MU, and we've seen some amazing shooters. However, he is VERY limited in his defensive ability right now and he does struggle with the drive, although he will get better at both. One can only hope he becomes anywhere close to as good as Jerel, and I think he will, but lets not get ahead of ourselves
And REALLY lowest IQ ever? wow
Quote from: duanewade on January 24, 2010, 04:01:34 PM
but my points about DJO were on the mark as I said he is a great player but not an effective dribbler, slasher, defender or penetrator and have a full season of game film to back it up.
You have basically 1/2 season of game file to review. I've seen DJO do some pretty great spin moves, break almost anyone down off the dribble, he can finish with both his left and right hands, seen him have a couple of explosive dunks. Not sure why you think he isn't coordinated or athletic. He's far more athletic than Jerel McNeal, and already shows better court awareness. Yes, his defense could improve..and he is not the defender McNeal was as a sophomore, but quite frankly - I thought Jerel's defense got worse his junior and senior year. I'm fully behind PRN and Hayward on this topic. DJO will be a stud the next 2 years, and he will play in the NBA. DJO will play the 2 in the NBA, maybe not as a starter..but he can definitely be a back up.
And did you really compare him to Joe Chapman??!! PLEASE DUDE.
OK, so in various threads we have Hayward, Butler and DJO making the NBA, but we cannot beat Depaul?
Yes MU could potentially have 3 players off this team in the NBA and still lose to DePaul. I recall a DePaul team with Quinton Richardson, Bobby Simmons and another 2nd round pick off a Blue Demons team that got absolutely rolled by an anonomous MU team at the BC.
That has never been nor will it ever be part of the evaluation process.
I don't know if comparing DJO to McNeal or any of the three amigos is really right. DJO plays more of a finesse and skilled game and they played a power game. DJO as a sophmore is much better at three point shooting than any of those guys were as sophs and arguably as seniors. He has a very pure stroke which helps him fill a role potentially for the NBA if he shows that he can move his feet laterally enough to defend NBA two guards.
McNeal was a quick and player would was able to beat people to spots and then use his strength to over power a lot of guards. He sometimes forced shots and seemed out of control as he would try to blow past people and overpower them. James also used his quickness to blow by people and then relied on his athleticism to quickly get over people and he was big enough to not let little bumps alter his shot too much. Neither are probably strong enough to continue to usestrength as an advantage at the next level. Hopefully McNeal's improved shot and decent defense will get him in the league some how.
Quote from: mudimitri on January 24, 2010, 04:43:53 PM
Really? Lowest IQ player to ever play at MU? The All-time leading scorer in school history? A Second Team All American and BE Defensive Player of the Year. I understand he made plenty of bonehead plays and turned the ball over quite a bit, but REALLY?? You've managed to one up yourself, good work
DJO is good, I said he was an emerging star after his second game at MU. He can shoot the lights out, perhaps better than anyone I've seen at MU, and we've seen some amazing shooters. However, he is VERY limited in his defensive ability right now and he does struggle with the drive, although he will get better at both. One can only hope he becomes anywhere close to as good as Jerel, and I think he will, but lets not get ahead of ourselves
And REALLY lowest IQ ever? wow......
yes the pull up 3 from 35 feet with 40 seconds left aginst villanova in the BE tourney followed by his getting beat back door while guarding no one, etc etc, etc. The list is thousands of instances long every year the hope was he would not make 5 of the dumbest plays you ever saw every game. but no soph year, junior year and on ito his senior year it never got any better some may argue it got worse. Al used to say " the best thing about freshman is they become Sophomorea", i beleive 90% of that statement had to do with mental maturity. With jerel he never became even a Sophomre mentally. Yes therefore i stand behind my claim of the lowest bball IQ ever at Mu he never progressed mentally. That is why he is not in the NBA, it's that simple he is atrainwreck waiting to happen onn the court
I beleive DJO like most other players will improve on the mental aspect of his game and will be a true star at MU
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 24, 2010, 08:16:34 PM
And REALLY lowest IQ ever? wow......
yes the pull up 3 from 35 feet with 40 seconds left aginst villanova in the BE tourney followed by his getting beat back door while guarding no one, etc etc, etc. The list is thousands of instances long every year the hope was he would not make 5 of the dumbest plays you ever saw every game. but no soph year, junior year and on ito his senior year it never got any better some may argue it got worse. Al used to say " the best thing about freshman is they become Sophomorea", i beleive 90% of that statement had to do with mental maturity. With jerel he never became even a Sophomre mentally. Yes therefore i stand behind my claim of the lowest bball IQ ever at Mu he never progressed mentally. That is why he is not in the NBA, it's that simple he is atrainwreck waiting to happen onn the court
I beleive DJO like most other players will improve on the mental aspect of his game and will be a true star at MU
Don't get me wrong, I am not claiming he has a good bball IQ and I know he made many mistakes, BUT where was that worst IQ of all time in games where he would just take over. Was it that bad against Stanford in the tourney? How about all the other games that he single handedly won? Also, any guard that can get BE defensive player of the year as a Soph must be doing something right?
Everyone knows he made bonehead plays, forced things many times, but he also had the ball a lot in difficult situations. Maybe you just place too much emphasis on the bad and dont see the good. Any player with the worst basketball IQ of all time would not be able to accomplish all that he has, plain and simple
Polo dunked in the wrong hoop. I think that might top mcneal.
McNeal definitely didn't have a very high basketball IQ, but I don't think it was the lowest EVER at Marquette. Also, you have to take into consideration that he was a 4-year starter so we can site more examples of low-IQ plays, as opposed to someone who made boneheaded plays for only a year or two.
Had Dameon Mason stuck around, you might be singing a different tune ;)
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 24, 2010, 03:29:44 PM
Stopped reading when you called DJO uncoordinated. Stunning in its idiocy. DJO is our best player and absolutely a better offensive player than McNeal, who you compared him to. Also, advocating "gambling" on defense instead of staying in proper defensive position? Are you drunk?
DJO will play in the NBA, you can make book on that.
This is the most rediculously premature statement ever made. The guy hasn't even completed a single year of D1 college basketball and is averaging a modest 12 points. Can he shoot the 3? Yes. What else does he do so well that would lead you to make such an insane prediction? I'm not trying to start a fight, I seriously want to know...
Quote from: The Pickle on January 24, 2010, 09:08:50 PM
This is the most rediculously premature statement ever made. The guy hasn't even completed a single year of D1 college basketball and is averaging a modest 12 points. Can he shoot the 3? Yes. What else does he do so well that would lead you to make such an insane prediction? I'm not trying to start a fight, I seriously want to know...
It's clear to me he's the most talented player we've had here since Wade...by a lot. The prediction is not insane. It's spot on. Mark my words. By next year, I suspect he'll be stringing 20 point games together routinely.
DJO's only a sophomore, and has only played 19 games of D1 ball. He's also had to play with the midgets as his backcourt and a guard as his center and has been in and out of the starting lineup of a 7 man rotation. McNeal got to play with DJ, Matthews, and at least had a big on the floor. I'd say he's doing a great job with the deck stacked against him. He's got some tools McNeal didn't-even vastly improved, McNeal couldn't hit the three like DJO and even though he's not learned how to slash and make plays he still doesn't turn the ball over close to as much as McNeal did as a sophomore, or even as a senior. I'm still not convinced he's going to ever win BE Defensive Player of the Year or be a 2nd team All-American, but I think he can do a lot more. If he can turn that ten minutes of brilliance we see every other game into anything consistent he will be pretty special. Part of it will be getting the experience, part of it will be getting some players around him, and part of it will be realizing that there are players "around him", which means he's got to be the guy and never a role player-something that McNeal never shied away from, and why he was such a great player.
DJO will be pushed for playing time by the people who came in with him and after him. McNeal never had that kind of competition in practice. DJO may get better through this competition, but may never get the amount of minutes McNeal got just bc of the team he will likely play on.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 24, 2010, 09:52:02 PM
It's clear to me he's the most talented player we've had here since Wade...by a lot. The prediction is not insane. It's spot on. Mark my words. By next year, I suspect he'll be stringing 20 point games together routinely.
All I can say is I hope you are right...
Quote from: The Pickle on January 24, 2010, 10:09:41 PM
All I can say is I hope you are right...
He is. His body alone puts him ahead of most guys (Wes Matthews was the same way. Physically, and athletically he was unquestionably the best NBA prospect of the three Amigos).
Quote from: The Pickle on January 24, 2010, 09:08:50 PM
This is the most rediculously premature statement ever made. The guy hasn't even completed a single year of D1 college basketball and is averaging a modest 12 points. Can he shoot the 3? Yes. What else does he do so well that would lead you to make such an insane prediction? I'm not trying to start a fight, I seriously want to know...
Just 19 games into his 1st NCAA Division 1 season - I've seen DJO do some pretty great spin moves, break almost anyone down off the dribble, he can finish with both his left and right hands, seen him have a couple of explosive dunks. He's far more athletic than Jerel McNeal, and already shows better court awareness. I'm fully behind PRN and Hayward on this topic. DJO will be a stud the next 2 years, and he will play in the NBA. DJO will play the 2 in the NBA, maybe not as a starter..but he can definitely be a back up.
By the time he leaves, my guess is that many will feel he is the best player to put on an MU uniform since Wade...this is my feeling.
Quote from: nyg on January 24, 2010, 04:54:31 PM
OK, so in various threads we have Hayward, Butler and DJO making the NBA, but we cannot beat Depaul?
Post of the chain....very dry humor in tone but speaks volumes with well placed sarcasm.
I'm more proud of any MU player that makes the NBA and check boxscores almost daily of Diener, Wade, Novak and Wes to see how they are doing. I do hope DJO and others do make the NBA but NBA GM's are very cruel in their analysis as they have to be as it's a super elite league for only the 300 best players in the world. They tend to put more emphasis on potential and body types and skills for certain positions then they do on performance (hence a 6th man for tOSU got drafted in the 1st round last year). Of course most the NBA super stars are genetic freaks who break all the rules on what they are supposed to be able to do....for example D. Wade is an undersized 2 guard who is built like an NFL strong safety yet has the quickness of AI and can explode and jam like a center....it's not fair how much talent God gave to D. Wade, Lebron, Garnet, Kobie and others.
DJO may be a freak with his jumping ability and a very adept shooter....I'll be cheering for him but in my earlier posts I pointed out his current limitations that will keep him at Marquette next year for sure.
I think if DJO thought that he was as good as people think he is on this message board, he would assert himself in games more and be an NBA-type player.
He is great with the ball in his hands and spotting up. I'd like to see him come off screens and let it fly a la Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton. He has the stroke to do it. He should also add some chest and shoulder muscle so he can finish when he gets bumped and defend other 2 guards.
And of course, a little more poise at the FT line at the end of games...
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 24, 2010, 09:52:02 PM
It's clear to me he's the most talented player we've had here since Wade...by a lot. The prediction is not insane. It's spot on. Mark my words. By next year, I suspect he'll be stringing 20 point games together routinely.
I LOVE DJO... but I think you are jumping the gun. Remember Travis Diener and Steve Novak? They were very gifted (offensively).
McNeal is the all time leading scorer and was a hell of a player at MU. Certainly his style could be frustrating to watch at times, but he was all effort all of the time. Opposing players must have hated playing against him.
He's an explosive athlete, but far too deliberate with the basketball. Same on defense, he's more than quick enough laterally but is thinking too much.
Dude needs a bit more reckless abandon out there. I'd gladly trade aggressive turnovers for the ones he has now.
Is this a DJO appreciation thread, or a Mcneal bashing thread?
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on January 25, 2010, 09:37:42 AM
Is this a DJO appreciation thread, or a Mcneal bashing thread?
Right, there is nothing wrong with concurrently complimenting DJO and McNeal. I am happy both came to MU. Both were/are good guards and did different things well.