MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: muwarrior69 on January 24, 2010, 12:32:04 PM

Title: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: muwarrior69 on January 24, 2010, 12:32:04 PM
play better as freshman than Hayward, Cubi and Acker have as seniors? Just wondering what bodes for next season.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: Nukem2 on January 24, 2010, 12:51:02 PM
Hard to see any playing better than Zar.  Mo , despite limitations, has been a solid contributor (especially recently).  Probably they will do more than cooby, who brings energy but really is a role player at best.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: reinko on January 24, 2010, 02:02:04 PM
Smith will barely sniff the floor IMHO.  With Buycks,Cadougan, DJO, and Blue well ahead of him.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: Markusquette on January 24, 2010, 02:41:48 PM
Quote from: reinko on January 24, 2010, 02:02:04 PM
Smith will barely sniff the floor IMHO.  With Buycks,Cadougan, DJO, and Blue well ahead of him.


Hard to say really.  If we continue to have a smaller lineup, Buzz might be forced to play Vander at the 3 more opening up more time for Reggie as backup point.  I could see all three of our freshmen playing a nice role on the team.  My question is-  Will Vander be our go-to guy next year, or will it be DJO or Jimmy?

I could see it going either way really.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: avid1010 on January 24, 2010, 02:47:05 PM
I have to believe we'll improve at the guard spot.  Not only because of the incoming talent, but also because of the experience that DJO and DB will have after a full year in the BEAST and another off-season on the MU campus.  

As far as replacing Zar.  I think that has much more to do with what Butler, Fulce, Otule, E-Will and possibly Mbao are able to do in the off season.  I would think Jimmy picks up much of that slack, but the other four I mentioned are going to need to improve greatly and stay healthy.  Buzz will also have another year of experience in leading a BEAST team.  If MU could sign or develop a serviceable big man or two, I'd look at DJO's senior year as a year that MU could make a run.  Or at least I like to tell myself that.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: muballer10 on January 24, 2010, 02:49:54 PM
While the net contributions  of incomers vs. outcomers will likely be negative (solely because of Lazar leaving), The remaining players (DJO, Buckys, Jimmy, O'Tule, etc...) will be much, much better with this year behind them. Taking that into consideration, I think next years team will be better than this years, but the lack of experience will shine throw at certain moments.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 24, 2010, 03:52:14 PM
... How is the experience this year benefiting us?  Hayward missed a critical free throw against DePaul.  Jimmy Bulter missed an easy layup to tie against Villanova.  Cubes missed a critical free throw.    Bulter missed a critical free throw.  Acker missed two open layups in two games in the final minute.  Acker has had a knack for committing a turnover at critical parts of the game.  Even though we are losing three seniors this year, it is no where near the loss we took last year.  I am pretty confident we will be better next year. 
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: vacinator on January 24, 2010, 04:00:02 PM
Its going to be hard to replace LH - but I think we will be better because of the athletes MU is bringing in.  Next years rotation will be at least 9 players deep - not counting the two open slots
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: GOMU1104 on January 24, 2010, 04:06:59 PM
Quote from: vacinator on January 24, 2010, 04:00:02 PM
Its going to be hard to replace LH - but I think we will be better because of the athletes MU is bringing in.  Next years rotation will be at least 9 players deep - not counting the two open slots

I doubt it. True 9 man rotations arent very common. You are assuming alot by saying that.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: NavinRJohnson on January 24, 2010, 04:18:07 PM
I see no reason to make the player to player comparison, but assuming they don't get killed with key injuries again, MU will be a very good team next year.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: chapman on January 24, 2010, 04:26:02 PM
From what we've had to this point, we lose Lazar, Acker, and Cubillan.  We gain Cadougan, Blue, Jones, Smith, Otule, anything we get out of Mbao, and any improvement we get out of the players playing now (DJO, Williams, Buycks being those you'd look to most, probably in that order).  Doesn't seem like we can get worse on paper.  But that whole idea of needing a star player or a go-to guy will definitely creep up...whether or not you consider Lazar a star, he's pretty much all we have for on-court leadership and assertiveness.  Can't have a bunch of players who always want to be the underdog and don't want to be counted on to win.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: NersEllenson on January 24, 2010, 04:55:27 PM
Quote from: reinko on January 24, 2010, 02:02:04 PM
Smith will barely sniff the floor IMHO.  With Buycks,Cadougan, DJO, and Blue well ahead of him.

I believe Smith will be the surprise of next year's team.  I see his talent as being on-par with Dominic James as a freshman.  Maybe I'm a little optimistic, but for Smith to do what he's doing in prep ball in metro-Chicago..combined with his off the charts athleticism - I'm not so sure he will "barely sniff the floor."  Call me crazy, but it wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to have the best freshman season of any of next year's recruits - including Blue.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: GOMU1104 on January 24, 2010, 04:57:08 PM
Quote from: Ners on January 24, 2010, 04:55:27 PM
I believe Smith will be the surprise of next year's team.  I see his talent as being on-par with Dominic James as a freshman.  Maybe I'm a little optimistic, but for Smith to do what he's doing in prep ball in metro-Chicago..combined with his off the charts athleticism - I'm not so sure he will "barely sniff the floor."  Call me crazy, but it wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to have the best freshman season of any of next year's recruits - including Blue.

Wow

What makes you think any of that?  Have you seen him play? Did you see Dominic James play at the same time in his career?

Please cite more than the youtube videos of him dunking.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: NersEllenson on January 24, 2010, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: GOMU1104 on January 24, 2010, 04:57:08 PM
Wow

What makes you think any of that?  Have you seen him play? Did you see Dominic James play at the same time in his career?

Please cite more than the youtube videos of him dunking.

I make this statement based on feedback I've gotten from my cousin who is a head boys basketball coach in metro Chicago.  He said he's the real deal.  Additionally, the competition Smith faces is a little better than what Blue and James face(d) in Madison and Richmond, IN.  I realize it may be a "reach" to make this statement, but again - my original comment was in reply to the "barely sniff the floor" comment.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on January 24, 2010, 07:04:47 PM
Quote from: reinko on January 24, 2010, 02:02:04 PM
Smith will barely sniff the floor IMHO.  With Buycks,Cadougan, DJO, and Blue well ahead of him.


Smith plays very good defense.  And if Smith can keep Big East point guards out of the lane (something our current guard rotation pre-Cadougan struggles big-time with), he will get a fair chunk of minutes.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: HoopsMalone on January 24, 2010, 07:31:51 PM
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on January 24, 2010, 07:04:47 PM
Smith plays very good defense.  And if Smith can keep Big East point guards out of the lane (something our current guard rotation pre-Cadougan struggles big-time with), he will get a fair chunk of minutes.

I agree.  Next year MU's biggest improvement will be defensively.  While we still manufacture a decent amount of steals, the three freshman we have will be an upgrade on defense and athleticism more than anything.  Buzz actually will have the luxury of many capable players on the perimeter for the first time so that he can keep fresh people on the opposing team's best perimeter players.

Blue, Jones, and Smith come into a place with not a lot of pressure on them.  With Cadougan playing this year, he, Jimmy, and DJO will probably be responsible for taking a lot of shots in November and December next year, and Buycks will take the best perimeter player on the other team. 

How good we are next year does not mostly depend on the three freshman coming in.  It depends more on the improvements of Mbao, Otule, Cadougan, and EWill.  If those four improve like Lazar did b/w Frosh and Soph year, Marquette will be dangerous.  I wouldn't completely say we have seen Jimmy's ceiling or DJO's ceiling either.  Throw in Fulce as an improved muscle guy and 2 JUCO bigs and we have a squad.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: Doctor V on January 24, 2010, 07:36:05 PM
Lets just put it this way, MUs backcourt will be stacked. I have also heard from multiple friends in the Chicago area that Smith is very good, and to write him off as the 5th best option at guard is absurd

We all know how Buzz feels about athleticism, he said DJO was the most athletic player on the squad earlier this year and look at DJO now

From the short sample time thus far, Cadougan looks to have excellent vision and good poise, seems to be a true PG. Quickness might become an issue, but if he learns to defend he will be very good.

Personally, I see another small lineup next season. It seems pretty inevitable with Cadougan, DJO, Buycks, Vander Blue, Smith. Poor Jimmy B might have to play the 4 all season, with OTule/Mbao splitting time at the 5, unless there is another big addition to the squad
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: GOMU1104 on January 24, 2010, 07:50:52 PM
Quote from: mudimitri on January 24, 2010, 07:36:05 PM
Lets just put it this way, MUs backcourt will be stacked. I have also heard from multiple friends in the Chicago area that Smith is very good, and to write him off as the 5th best option at guard is absurd

We all know how Buzz feels about athleticism, he said DJO was the most athletic player on the squad earlier this year and look at DJO now

From the short sample time thus far, Cadougan looks to have excellent vision and good poise, seems to be a true PG. Quickness might become an issue, but if he learns to defend he will be very good.

Personally, I see another small lineup next season. It seems pretty inevitable with Cadougan, DJO, Buycks, Vander Blue, Smith. Poor Jimmy B might have to play the 4 all season, with OTule/Mbao splitting time at the 5, unless there is another big addition to the squad

1. I dont think "writing Smith off" as the 5th guard is really a bad thing.  That is what he is likely to be next year...and theres nothing wrong with that. He is clearly a great athlete with enormous potential...but I next year I think he will end up behind DB, DJO, JC, and VB when it comes to minutes played.  The Bullseye Brothers (recruiting analysts from IL...that are very plugged and know their stuff) see Reggie Smith contributing for MU next year, and developing into a very good guard. But in terms of minutes played, I think next year he is 5th, but that isnt necessarly a bad thing.

2. Look for Buzz to do everything he can to add at least one 4/5 type to the 2010 class, that can provide something next year.   I dont know how much it will be, but it hopefully will take some of the pressure off of Otule, Mbao, Fulce, Butler, and Ewill down low.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: avid1010 on January 24, 2010, 09:48:41 PM
Quote from: GOMU1104 on January 24, 2010, 04:57:08 PM
Wow

What makes you think any of that?  Have you seen him play? Did you see Dominic James play at the same time in his career?

Please cite more than the youtube videos of him dunking.

Buzz was quoted as saying he'll be the quickest player on the team the minute he walks on campus, so if that can translate into solid defense my money says he'll see the court. 

My money would also say he won't have the freshmen season DJ had, but hell, DJ never had another season as good as his first  :-\
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: vacinator on January 24, 2010, 10:36:35 PM
Quote from: GOMU1104 on January 24, 2010, 04:06:59 PM
I doubt it. True 9 man rotations arent very common. You are assuming alot by saying that.

It is not uncommon to see 9 to 10 guys get minutes on a regular basis - look at todays box scores. 

We are returning JC, DJO, JB, JF, DB, CO and EW I would hope they all get playing time on a regular basis.  Throw in some contributions from Blue and Jones and you are 9 Deep. 

That is not counting Mboa - who could surprise, smith who could also surprise - no one returning except JC has played point this year - someone has to back him up and 2 open slots.

Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: GOMU1104 on January 25, 2010, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: vacinator on January 24, 2010, 10:36:35 PM
It is not uncommon to see 9 to 10 guys get minutes on a regular basis - look at todays box scores. 

We are returning JC, DJO, JB, JF, DB, CO and EW I would hope they all get playing time on a regular basis.  Throw in some contributions from Blue and Jones and you are 9 Deep. 

That is not counting Mboa - who could surprise, smith who could also surprise - no one returning except JC has played point this year - someone has to back him up and 2 open slots.


When I hear the term "rotation" I consider that the guys getting significant minutes. I dont see 9-10 guys being ready to get significant minutes next year.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: Big Papi on January 25, 2010, 09:43:44 AM
Quote from: GOMU1104 on January 24, 2010, 07:50:52 PM

1. I dont think "writing Smith off" as the 5th guard is really a bad thing.  
2. Look for Buzz to do everything he can to add at least one 4/5 type to the 2010 class, that can provide something next year.  

When going with a 3 guard lineup, which Buzz will, you need 5 guards.  All 5 will play next year.  Smith will get minutes. 

As far as getting 4/5 that can provide production next year, that is a little bit of a pipe dream at this point in time.  My guess is that we get a commit out of Aziz N'diaye for the 5 spot.  Will he be better than Otule and Mbao next year?  I don't know.  The other commit will probably be a 3/4 who won't get a lot of playing time.  Ewill is being groomed as the 4 and will probably back up Butler at the 4.

We are small again next year so expect us, with a deeper bench, to provide more pressure from basket to basket with lots of substitutions.  We would have been doing that this year with a healthy Junior.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: HoopsMalone on January 25, 2010, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: mufanatic on January 25, 2010, 09:43:44 AM


As far as getting 4/5 that can provide production next year, that is a little bit of a pipe dream at this point in time.  My guess is that we get a commit out of Aziz N'diaye for the 5 spot. 


Though this info is not necessarily accurate, but Aziz N'diaye does not list MU on rivals.  http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Aziz-N'Diaye-72377

Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: GOMU1104 on January 25, 2010, 09:53:05 AM
Quote from: HoopsMalone on January 25, 2010, 09:49:05 AM
Though this info is not necessarily accurate, but Aziz N'diaye does not list MU on rivals.  http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Aziz-N'Diaye-72377



Again, dont trust those lists.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: HoopsMalone on January 25, 2010, 10:02:55 AM
Quote from: GOMU1104 on January 25, 2010, 09:53:05 AM
Again, dont trust those lists.

Sure, and I qualified it before posting it.  It's not trivial though that he doesn't list MU as reported by a popular site.  Those lists are also not necessarily exhaustive or up-top-date, but are more info than most of us have. 

Do we have good basis for his interest in MU?
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: mr.MUskie on January 25, 2010, 10:04:31 AM
Quote from: GOMU1104 on January 25, 2010, 09:53:05 AM
Again, dont trust those lists.


He plays for the Golden Eagles, and they used the word "Buzz" 3 times in this short article, so looks like a sure thing.
Plus he tore his ACL so he'll fit right in.  
Has an unpronounceable name.  Looking better all the time.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: chapman on January 25, 2010, 10:04:56 AM
Another native of Dakar, and he tore his ACL in May and has yet to return.  He would fit right in.

Solid numbers for a freshman big man last year (8.5/7.9).  And he's got 40+ lbs on Mbao.  IMO, given what else is out there if he can come back healthy on paper he would be worth one of our 2+ scholarships.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: Nukem2 on January 25, 2010, 10:06:31 AM
Quote from: mufanatic on January 25, 2010, 09:43:44 AM
When going with a 3 guard lineup, which Buzz will, you need 5 guards.  All 5 will play next year.  Smith will get minutes. 

As far as getting 4/5 that can provide production next year, that is a little bit of a pipe dream at this point in time.  My guess is that we get a commit out of Aziz N'diaye for the 5 spot.  Will he be better than Otule and Mbao next year?  I don't know.  The other commit will probably be a 3/4 who won't get a lot of playing time.  Ewill is being groomed as the 4 and will probably back up Butler at the 4.

We are small again next year so expect us, with a deeper bench, to provide more pressure from basket to basket with lots of substitutions.  We would have been doing that this year with a healthy Junior.
I suspect buzz would prefer to play a 3 guard lineup.  With that, Smith will get some nice PT.  Suspect Erik and Jamail Jones will be Butler's backups.  That leaves Otule and whoever Buzz signs in the spring to man the 5.  Of course Buzz can also go with 2 F's as he does this year. I still think Mbao should be redshirted next year unless he makes major strides this summer.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: mr.MUskie on January 25, 2010, 10:06:54 AM
forgot to post the article:

http://www.montlakemadness.com/who-is-aziz-ndiaye/
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: GOMU1104 on January 25, 2010, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: HoopsMalone on January 25, 2010, 10:02:55 AM
Sure, and I qualified it before posting it.  It's not trivial though that he doesn't list MU as reported by a popular site.  Those lists are also not necessarily exhaustive or up-top-date, but are more info than most of us have. 

Do we have good basis for his interest in MU?

Sounds like there is interest, tough to really know for sure.

He is sitting out this year with a torn ACL and will have 3 years of eligibility left wherever he decides to play.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: bma725 on January 25, 2010, 10:33:34 AM
Quote from: HoopsMalone on January 25, 2010, 10:02:55 AM
Sure, and I qualified it before posting it.  It's not trivial though that he doesn't list MU as reported by a popular site.  Those lists are also not necessarily exhaustive or up-top-date, but are more info than most of us have. 

If history has shown us anything it's that it is trivial that MU isn't listed by a popular site.  Unless the site is basing their list off a published article where a kid said he was only considering a specific list of schools they put together lists based mostly of hearsay from coaches and other contacts.  There are many times where you can add up the lists put together by ESPN, Scout and Rivals and not a single one will include the actual finalists for a kid.

QuoteDo we have good basis for his interest in MU?

Yes.  In fact we've been recruiting him for over two years going back to his days at Lake Forest Academy.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: bamamarquettefan on January 25, 2010, 11:03:10 AM
Outside of Carmelo Anthony, 5-stars are typically strong contributors as freshman but not the go-to guy until their sophomore year, so Vander will be huge next year but still think DJO will be the go-to guy on offense with plenty of help from Buycks and Butler.  I believe DJs freshman year really spoiled us, because it is really unheard of for a 4-star to be that good his freshman year, but as a 5-star Vander will dominate by sophomore year, and could well even take over as we hit the Big East and NCAA tournament next year.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: Boone on January 25, 2010, 11:10:54 AM
Let's not sleep on Reggie Murphy -- 6'9" 230lbs. out of Westchester H.S. in L.A. He has offers from MU and TCU and Oklahoma's showing interest.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: RawdogDX on January 25, 2010, 11:27:13 AM
Quote from: Ners on January 24, 2010, 05:29:11 PM
I make this statement based on feedback I've gotten from my cousin who is a head boys basketball coach in metro Chicago.  He said he's the real deal.  Additionally, the competition Smith faces is a little better than what Blue and James face(d) in Madison and Richmond, IN.  I realize it may be a "reach" to make this statement, but again - my original comment was in reply to the "barely sniff the floor" comment.

Sounds like solid info.  Glad to hear it.
Title: Re: Will Vanderblue, Jones and Smith.....
Post by: RawdogDX on January 25, 2010, 11:35:33 AM
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on January 25, 2010, 11:03:10 AM
Outside of Carmelo Anthony, 5-stars are typically strong contributors as freshman but not the go-to guy until their sophomore year, so Vander will be huge next year but still think DJO will be the go-to guy on offense with plenty of help from Buycks and Butler.  I believe JM, WM andDJs freshman year really spoiled us, because it is really unheard of for a 4-star to be that good his freshman year, but as a 5-star Vander will dominate by sophomore year, and could well even take over as we hit the Big East and NCAA tournament next year.

+1 with a fix.
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