I'm okay with losing to the #5 team in the nation (#1 RPI) by 5 on their court.
Too bad we didn't adjust earlier and play more pressure ball.
Agreed, but I'm sure we will see our fair share of complainers again.
Love the fact that there is no quit in this team, it will pay off soon
Marquette stood no chance going against their size (Onuaku, Jackson) and length (Johnson and Joseph)...hot shooting in the 1st half was the great equalizer.
Agreed, thought we played pretty well. Unfortunate that we seem to bring it against certain teams, especially the top teams, but play down to the level against some of the others (not always). As we mature as a team, hopefully that will change.
Wesley Johnson is a major stud. Best player I have seen in BE this year. Butler had no chance with him.
Five point loss is still a loss, but coming back from 16 down was encouraging.
Not a bad result, but knowing that we can hang in there makes any loss tough to swallow. The opening of the second half was so hard to watch- no one was really even fired up. I would just like to see this team bring it all together again like the Providence game.
We just cannot afford to keep losing. I really like the hustle of the team as well, but I want to seem them experience some success.
I liked what I saw from Junior on the most part...considering this was his first BE game, coming off of that injury, against Syracuse, AT Syracuse and whatnot.
I'm disappointed again, but word, I will also take this.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 23, 2010, 03:10:45 PM
Agreed, thought we played pretty well. Unfortunate that we seem to bring it against certain teams, especially the top teams, but play down to the level against some of the others (not always). As we mature as a team, hopefully that will change.
I thought MU played terrible, and it's really the first game this year that I've felt this way. I didn't see an adjustment made on either side of the ball (until it was essentially too late). Cuse shot 12% from the 3-point line, but MU gave up 50+ points in the paint because they wouldn't pack it in. I don't agree that this was a close game, and I hated the way they attacked the zone after the first 10 min. of the game. I can't think of a single player who I thought showed improvement (it was nice to see Junior), and MU's transition defense looked silly as well. Cuse is a good team, and MU is better than I thought they would be considering the injuries and transfer that played out this year, but I didn't see a lot of positives to take from this game.
Quote from: avid1010 on January 23, 2010, 03:18:35 PM
I thought MU played terrible, and it's really the first game this year that I've felt this way.
Did you see the DePaul game? We played much better in this game than that one....certainly from the effort and intensity point of view.
Quote from: avid1010 on January 23, 2010, 03:18:35 PM
I thought MU played terrible, and it's really the first game this year that I've felt this way. I didn't see an adjustment made on either side of the ball (until it was essentially too late). Cuse shot 12% from the 3-point line, but MU gave up 50+ points in the paint because they wouldn't pack it in. I don't agree that this was a close game, and I hated the way they attacked the zone after the first 10 min. of the game. I can't think of a single player who I thought showed improvement (it was nice to see Junior), and MU's transition defense looked silly as well. Cuse is a good team, and MU is better than I thought they would be considering the injuries and transfer that played out this year, but I didn't see a lot of positives to take from this game.
Avid - the sooner you understand that it is hard to adjust to players who are 5-7 inches taller, 20-50 pounds heavier, and almost equally athletic...the less frustrated you will be with this team. MU played well today. SImply undermanned, undersized, and against a talented, talented team on the road.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 23, 2010, 03:12:20 PM
Not a bad result, but knowing that we can hang in there makes any loss tough to swallow.
Why would this loss be tough to swallow? The loss to DePaul was tough to swallow.
This game...we played against one of the best teams in the country, were over matched at every position, and got beat. Regardless of our little comeback...we got beat pretty good today...something that was suppsed to happen, and was never really in doubt once the 2nd half began.
Were you expecting to win this game?
Quote from: GOMU1104 on January 23, 2010, 03:23:38 PM
Why would this loss be tough to swallow? The loss to DePaul was tough to swallow.
This game...we played against one of the best teams in the country, were over matched at every position, and got beat. Regardless of our little comeback...we got beat pretty good today...something that was suppsed to happen, and was never really in doubt once the 2nd half began.
Were you expecting to win this game?
I don't think anyone really expected to win this game coming in. But we played well in the first half, and when we were tied at halftime I thought we had a chance. Maybe that's just wishful thinking, but we did beat Georgetown, who has one of the better big guys in the conference. Fulce's foul trouble really made a bigger impact than I expected
Quote from: skianth16 on January 23, 2010, 03:29:29 PM
I don't think anyone really expected to win this game coming in. But we played well in the first half, and when we were tied at halftime I thought we had a chance. Maybe that's just wishful thinking, but we did beat Georgetown, who has one of the better big guys in the conference. Fulce's foul trouble really made a bigger impact than I expected
Ok, but how is it tough to swallow?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 23, 2010, 03:20:22 PM
Did you see the DePaul game? We played much better in this game than that one....certainly from the effort and intensity point of view.
I thought the DePaul game was much different. DePaul slowed it down, minimized the number of possessions, hit tough shots late in the shot clock, and MU missed a lot of "easy" opportunities. I'll be interested to hear the comments from Buzz. I didn't even think the guards were digging down after the first 15 min. of the game. I'd put five defenders in the lane or press the heck out of a team before I watched my team give up 50+ points in the paint, but Buzz did find a way to give them a slim chance at the end against a great team on the road.
This was the effort we needed at DePaul. Better days are coming if we play like we did today.
Quote from: avid1010 on January 23, 2010, 03:32:22 PM
I thought the DePaul game was much different. DePaul slowed it down, minimized the number of possessions, hit tough shots late in the shot clock, and MU missed a lot of "easy" opportunities. I'll be interested to hear the comments from Buzz. I didn't even think the guards were digging down after the first 15 min. of the game. I'd put five defenders in the lane or press the heck out of a team before I watched my team give up 50+ points in the paint, but Buzz did find a way to give them a slim chance at the end against a great team on the road.
Trust me..I think Buzz would LOVE to press the heck out of a team....but...we have no depth, and already have fatigue problems at the end of the game..that to press all game or a majority of the game is almost unrealistic with this team - or possibly counter-productive. Thankfully next year when we add Blue, Smith and Jones..we will be deeper, which may allow us to press more and make up for our size deficiency by creating more turnovers, points off of turnovers..
Quote from: Ners on January 23, 2010, 03:22:54 PM
Avid - the sooner you understand that it is hard to adjust to players who are 5-7 inches taller, 20-50 pounds heavier, and almost equally athletic...the less frustrated you will be with this team. MU played well today. SImply undermanned, undersized, and against a talented, talented team on the road.
So when a team is 5-7 inches taller and 20-50 pounds heavier, and shoots 12% from the 3 point line it's acceptable to give up 50+ points in the paint? I'd rather make Rautins beat us than the Cuse big men, but Buzz obviously felt different on that matter. I get that Cuse is a GREAT team, and a terrible match-up for MU. That would seem to suggest MU needed a scheme to deal with those match-ups. I watched Tracy Webster figure a way to do it to MU.
Quote from: mbao_toMU09 on January 23, 2010, 03:07:48 PM
Agreed, but I'm sure we will see our fair share of complainers again.
Why bother complaining at this point? This team has been teasing us all season wit these games. We played tough and athletic again hitting some decent 3s. and kept it close but lost to a taller bigger team. And it's going to happen at least a few more times
I'm at the point where I just hope that Marquette Madness has a cool t-shirt.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 23, 2010, 03:06:05 PM
I'm okay with losing to the #5 team in the nation (#1 RPI) by 5 on their court.
Too bad we didn't adjust earlier and play more pressure ball.
that game was not as close as the final score. They killed us. But yeah, keep enjoing the "close" losses.
Yeah...MU never had a chance against those monsters they have. The fact that they hung in and didn't quit is worthy of a tip of the cap. Syracuse is about the worst match up MU could possibly get.
Quote from: avid1010 on January 23, 2010, 03:39:52 PM
So when a team is 5-7 inches taller and 20-50 pounds heavier, and shoots 12% from the 3 point line it's acceptable to give up 50+ points in the paint? I'd rather make Rautins beat us than the Cuse big men, but Buzz obviously felt different on that matter. I get that Cuse is a GREAT team, and a terrible match-up for MU. That would seem to suggest MU needed a scheme to deal with those match-ups. I watched Tracy Webster figure a way to do it to MU.
Which scheme would that be? Was there somene else better equipped to handle Onuaku, Johnson, and Jackson on the inside? I give credit to Buzz for somehow making this close game despite the fact that we got no rebounds all day and Syracuse was getting lay-ups the entire second half. Tough loss, but this experience will pay-off in the end and our 4 toughest games on the schedule are behind us (although not so sure after watching UConn today).
Quote from: Jacks DC on January 23, 2010, 08:17:52 PM
Which scheme would that be? Was there somene else better equipped to handle Onuaku, Johnson, and Jackson on the inside? I give credit to Buzz for somehow making this close game despite the fact that we got no rebounds all day and Syracuse was getting lay-ups the entire second half. Tough loss, but this experience will pay-off in the end and our 4 toughest games on the schedule are behind us (although not so sure after watching UConn today).
I more or less agree. Question is, what is "the end?" Next year? If so, I agree. To me, Syracuse was the best team we've played, and given the match up (size), we never had chance to win that game. I do see a number of wins on the horizon, but very few wins come March.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on January 23, 2010, 08:23:23 PM
I more or less agree. Question is, what is "the end?" Next year? If so, I agree. To me, Syracuse was the best team we've played, and given the match up (size), we never had chance to win that game. I do see a number of wins on the horizon, but very few wins come March.
There will be critical (and winnable) games down the road. Today's effort probably wins against Cincy, Seton Hall, St. John's and Louisville. I don't think its time to give up on this season yet.
Quote from: Jacks DC on January 23, 2010, 08:17:52 PM
Which scheme would that be? Was there somene else better equipped to handle Onuaku, Johnson, and Jackson on the inside? I give credit to Buzz for somehow making this close game despite the fact that we got no rebounds all day and Syracuse was getting lay-ups the entire second half. Tough loss, but this experience will pay-off in the end and our 4 toughest games on the schedule are behind us (although not so sure after watching UConn today).
You admit Cuse was getting lay-ups the entire second half, yet don't feel there was an adjustment MU should have made?
I just read the comments that Buzz made after the game, and he essentially said the same thing. The game was too fast and they didn't take many shots outside of the paint in the second half. Not to mention a 6 minute scoring drought that makes it real easy for Cuse to set up their zone off a make rather than a miss.
They could have packed it in, ran a half court trap, 3/4 court press, different zones or a mix to keep them off balance. They were way too comfortable, and never had to change till the end when they began to struggle. Hell at least dare Cuse to shoot a 3 and see if they're having an off shooting day. I'm sure if Buzz had the game to redo he'd figure out a way to limit the points in the paint for Cuse.
Was the pressure at the end not effective?
Quote from: avid1010 on January 23, 2010, 03:39:52 PM
That would seem to suggest MU needed a scheme to deal with those match-ups.
Tied at half, and ended up losing by 5. Has it occurred to you that maybe they did scheme to deal with those match-ups? MU realistically had no chance to win that game. Yet, they hung in through much of it. That was one of the top 3 or 4 teams in the country, playing on their home floor, with personnel that MU was simply incapable of matching up with, and you are seriously suggesting that Buzz didn't scheme enough to win the game? Come on.
Sure maybe Buzz could have tried a few other things, but the bottom line was that there was no way MU was going to win the rebounding battle or limit Syracuse scoring in the paint. Wes Johnson is probably the best player in the Big East right now and Onuaku is an absolute beast. I went to the Syracuse game last year and literally felt sorry for Wes Matthews trying to stop him. 'Cuse is a Final Four level team and I thought we did a pretty good job of covering up our many weaknesses.
Quote from: Jacks DC on January 23, 2010, 08:55:26 PM
Onuaku is an absolute beast.
I continue to marvel at KO's size no matter how much I see him. The guy is just not normal.
I thought Cuse was going to run away with it, and I'll admit that I thought the difference was going to be 20 points in the end.
It was encouraging to see Marquette come back, but a loss is a loss.
However...don't you think the 5 points is a little inflated by the 22 TOs Cuse committed? I mean, it's still the margin of victory at the end of the day...but it COULD have been more, no?
If anything, those TOs and the guard play - Rautins shut out with 0 points - is really going to doom this Cuse team come March.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on January 23, 2010, 10:21:21 PM
However...don't you think the 5 points is a little inflated by the 22 TOs Cuse committed? I mean, it's still the margin of victory at the end of the day...but it COULD have been more, no?
If anything, those TOs and the guard play - Rautins shut out with 0 points - is really going to doom this Cuse team come March.
Syracuse leads the BE in turnovers and MU gets a lot of steals, so no surprise there. Where Syracuse really excels is FG% margin. Today's 59% to 39% is fairly typical for them. When you don't miss many shots and dominate the boards you give your opponent very little margin for error. They force opponents to take contested threes while they pound it inside, accepting a few steals on entry passes for the sake of getting high percentage looks.
Looking at the Big East #s though, it'll surprise you that Cuse not only leads in TOs but also Steals.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/conferences/statistics?confId=4&sort=avgSteals
That low opposing FG% is also due to the zone. And maybe the Carrier Dome.
Yes, I saw that too. If anything I think that shows that their propensity to turn it over is not as much of a weakness since they get so many takeaways too.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on January 23, 2010, 08:50:08 PM
Tied at half, and ended up losing by 5. Has it occurred to you that maybe they did scheme to deal with those match-ups? MU realistically had no chance to win that game. Yet, they hung in through much of it. That was one of the top 3 or 4 teams in the country, playing on their home floor, with personnel that MU was simply incapable of matching up with, and you are seriously suggesting that Buzz didn't scheme enough to win the game? Come on.
I sure am. I didn't think MU had a chance to win that came until they increased the pressure late in the game. Had they tried something different, earlier, I think they would have stood a better chance to win the game. If you think a scheme (or the execution of a scheme) that ends up allowing Cuse to score something like 60 points in the paint, and only take two shots outside the paint in the entire second half is a good one, I think you're mistaken. Buzz admitted to that in the post game. I'd also argue that the 5 point loss is a bit misleading as to what really occurred in this game. At half Cuse is shooting the ball terribly from the outside, and killing MU in the paint. I fully understand the halftime adjustment Cuse made in the second half was a heck of a lot easier to make then anything MU could do, but I didn't see them do anything. If you saw a scheme to try and get Cuse out of the paint please let me know so I can re-watch. I also saw a team that continued to give up points in transition.
We give up points in transition because the two guys usually back are 5'6 and 5'11. Not a lot of intimidation there. No one saw this as a win going in. We played good for a half, struggled for about 10 minutes, bottomed out for 5 (amazing the affect that one call can have on momentum, crowd excitement, energy level), and finished strong. Cadougan got his feet wet and nobody got hurt. Lets finish strong.