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MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mug644 on December 30, 2009, 06:45:26 AM

Title: no E Williams
Post by: mug644 on December 30, 2009, 06:45:26 AM
Anyone surprised that E Williams didn't get off the bench? Playing a much taller, more athletic team, I would've expected him to get some time.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: CTWarrior on December 30, 2009, 07:11:59 AM
I watched Williams closely the last few games when he got in, and I have to say, Buzz isn't lying.  He is brutal defensively.  Foot movement, keeping in front of his man, etc. is awful.  I don't think he is ready for WVU, either.  The kid has a lot going for him on the offensive end, but if you think he'll give it back and more on the defensive end, then you can't play him.  Given our lack of size, unfortunately, we can't afford to hide him in a zone, either.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: NCMUFan on December 30, 2009, 08:30:58 AM
I was thinking, why don't we play him like we do with Mbao, that being in the front court on defense.  E Williams is a good rebounder and shot blocker and then we would also have his offensive skills.  I was watching Mbao on offense.  He was literally standing in the corner not moving.  I believe he was just trying to keep out of peoples way.  Kind of tough to beat a team when it is literally 4 against 5 on offense.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: TJ on December 30, 2009, 08:40:18 AM
Quote from: NCMUFan on December 30, 2009, 08:30:58 AMKind of tough to beat a team when it is literally 4 against 5 on offense.
Sounds like last year.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 30, 2009, 09:49:02 AM
Both Erik and Mbao are nowhere ready for BE games played with both defensive and offensive intensity. Don't know if Yous will ever be; calculated gamble that coaches take when desparate. Erik has a chance with hard work over time.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on December 30, 2009, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: CTWarrior on December 30, 2009, 07:11:59 AM
I watched Williams closely the last few games when he got in, and I have to say, Buzz isn't lying.  He is brutal defensively.  Foot movement, keeping in front of his man, etc. is awful.  I don't think he is ready for WVU, either.  The kid has a lot going for him on the offensive end, but if you think he'll give it back and more on the defensive end, then you can't play him.  Given our lack of size, unfortunately, we can't afford to hide him in a zone, either.

He's worse than Mbao?  I find that hard to believe, yet Mbao is getting a few minutes per game.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: Big Papi on December 30, 2009, 10:08:46 AM
Williams was known for his shot blocking ability in high school so he must have a knack for it.  I would probably try to use him down low in 1-3-1 if anything and probably play him instead of Mbao.  The benefits being that Williams is better than Mbao overall but especially when it comes to rebounding and on the offensive end where teams have to defend all 5 players.  Put Williams in space or to defend man to man and he gets eaten up but why he doesn't get minutes over Mbao I just don't understand as I just don't see what benefits Mbao brings to the game at this point in time.  He looks absolutely lost playing the top of that zone.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: Nukem2 on December 30, 2009, 10:18:09 AM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 30, 2009, 09:57:01 AM
He's worse than Mbao?  I find that hard to believe, yet Mbao is getting a few minutes per game.
Agreed.  I find that mystifying.  Mbao is easily worse than Erik on defense and Erik does have a nice offensive game.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: Daniel on December 30, 2009, 10:59:42 AM
I agree - we don;t lose anything by giving Erik some/all of Mbao's minutes - he is a better defender (lots of work to do still, but better), rebounds, can put back off. rebounds, etc.  So how we think we are losing anyting putting Erik in over Mbao at this point I don't know.

Then again, I'm not the coach, and he must know something we don't.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: GOMU1104 on December 30, 2009, 12:02:27 PM
Quote from: mufanatic on December 30, 2009, 10:08:46 AM
Williams was known for his shot blocking ability in high school so he must have a knack for it. 

EWill blocked alot of shots in HS because he was a man among boys. Now, he is a boy among men.

Neither Ewill or Mbao really belong on the court in a Big East game this year.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: NCMUFan on December 30, 2009, 12:17:39 PM
Quote from: GOMU1104 on December 30, 2009, 12:02:27 PM
EWill blocked alot of shots in HS because he was a man among boys. Now, he is a boy among men.

Neither Ewill or Mbao really belong on the court in a Big East game this year.

I like it, come to college and all of a sudden all your scoring, rebounding and shot block skills disappear.  But wait, after 365 days they will reappear again.  Ya right.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: GOMU1104 on December 30, 2009, 12:28:18 PM
Quote from: NCMUFan on December 30, 2009, 12:17:39 PM
I like it, come to college and all of a sudden all your scoring, rebounding and shot block skills disappear.  But wait, after 365 days they will reappear again.  Ya right.

So there is no difference between being 6'7" and the tallest and most athletic player on the court in high school and playing in the Big East against players that are far more developed than you, and anyone you have ever played against?

You think there should be absolutely no dropoff in production between those two situations?

I am confident EWill will have a very nice 4 year career at MU, but looking at his HS production and expecting him to carry that over to the Big East just isnt a fair expectation.


Just give him time.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: MR.HAYWARD on December 30, 2009, 01:13:49 PM
Quote from: mufanatic on December 30, 2009, 10:08:46 AM
Williams was known for his shot blocking ability in high school so he must have a knack for it.  I would probably try to use him down low in 1-3-1 if anything and probably play him instead of Mbao.  The benefits being that Williams is better than Mbao overall but especially when it comes to rebounding and on the offensive end where teams have to defend all 5 players.  Put Williams in space or to defend man to man and he gets eaten up but why he doesn't get minutes over Mbao I just don't understand as I just don't see what benefits Mbao brings to the game at this point in time.  He looks absolutely lost playing the top of that zone.

This is why i typically stay off these boards after a loss.  i even went o the scout board as it tends to be more conservative and censored yet it was the same lunacy. 

In reference to your 1-3-1 mention...have you ever coached a 1-3-1?  or let me ask when have you ever seen a 1-3-1 with a big at the bottom.  Do you know the purposes of the botom -1 in a 1-3-1.  And please explain to me how you think Erik Williams would help us as the -1 in a 1-3-1...now please explain it so an idiot like Buzz Williams and me for that matter might be able to comprehend it. 
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: RawdogDX on December 30, 2009, 01:18:53 PM
One would think that, as part of our best recruiting class of all time, EW would be able to earn a few minutes by now.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 30, 2009, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 30, 2009, 01:13:49 PM
This is why i typically stay off these boards after a loss.  i even went o the scout board as it tends to be more conservative and censored yet it was the same lunacy. 

In reference to your 1-3-1 mention...have you ever coached a 1-3-1?  or let me ask when have you ever seen a 1-3-1 with a big at the bottom.  Do you know the purposes of the botom -1 in a 1-3-1.  And please explain to me how you think Erik Williams would help us as the -1 in a 1-3-1...now please explain it so an idiot like Buzz Williams and me for that matter might be able to comprehend it. 

didn't we run the 1-3-1 with Dom James on bottom last year?
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: MR.HAYWARD on December 30, 2009, 01:31:19 PM
the bottom man on a 1-3-1 is responsible for defending baseline dribble penetration and is responsible to trap the opposing guards in the corner.  he runs the baseline and traps he is responsible for both corners.  therefore the bottom -1 defender needs to be a very fast, good defender that can stop dribble penetration and trap well and get from one corner to the other quicker than the other team can rotate the ball.   

What in that 25cent description reflects EWill at this stage? 
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: MR.HAYWARD on December 30, 2009, 01:35:18 PM
Quote from: RawdogDX on December 30, 2009, 01:18:53 PM
One would think that, as part of our best recruiting class of all time, EW would be able to earn a few minutes by now.

yet another dumb, par for the course comment after a loss.  And i realize it was sarcasm.  We have Jimmy Butler and LAzar Ahyward at the 4.  Show me a Freshman 4 in the country that would play over those 2. 

I will wait for your response.  
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: LAZER on December 30, 2009, 02:13:36 PM
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 30, 2009, 01:35:18 PM
yet another dumb, par for the course comment after a loss.  And i realize it was sarcasm.  We have Jimmy Butler and LAzar Ahyward at the 4.  Show me a Freshman 4 in the country that would play over those 2. 

I will wait for your response.  

DeMarcus Cousins would, just off the top of my head
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: CTWarrior on December 30, 2009, 03:51:08 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 30, 2009, 09:57:01 AM
He's worse than Mbao?  I find that hard to believe, yet Mbao is getting a few minutes per game.

Mbao gives us more on defense than Williams, though not a lot.  His size means a little at the top of the key.  I agree, that the combo of offense/defense Williams provides at this point is probably greater than that provided by Mbao, but I wouldn't argue the point with the coach, who would know way better than me.  Fatigue didn't seem to be an issue to me, though, and I didn't see the need to play Williams.  (btw, I'm pretty sure we increased our advantage while Mbao was in the game, but I couldn't back that up with anything specifically useful that he did)
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: GGGG on December 30, 2009, 04:50:45 PM
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 30, 2009, 01:31:19 PM
the bottom man on a 1-3-1 is responsible for defending baseline dribble penetration and is responsible to trap the opposing guards in the corner.  he runs the baseline and traps he is responsible for both corners.  therefore the bottom -1 defender needs to be a very fast, good defender that can stop dribble penetration and trap well and get from one corner to the other quicker than the other team can rotate the ball.   

What in that 25cent description reflects EWill at this stage? 


Correct.  And the top of the 1-3-1 can oftentimes be someone just like Mbao...someone whose length prevents the ball from quickly swinging from side to side. 
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: MR.HAYWARD on December 30, 2009, 05:13:54 PM
sultan you are correct but that zone is not a 1-3-1 we play it is a 3-2 ...really more of a 1-2-2.  I would rather see Mbao run baseline at this point in a 1-3-1 than ewill as he has the length and spped to do a decent job.  ewill is probably slower than Mbao without the reach.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: RawdogDX on December 30, 2009, 05:51:33 PM
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 30, 2009, 01:35:18 PM
yet another dumb, par for the course comment after a loss.  And i realize it was sarcasm.  We have Jimmy Butler and LAzar Ahyward at the 4.  Show me a Freshman 4 in the country that would play over those 2. 

I will wait for your response.  

Why do you want people to hate you?  I don't understand the joy it gives people like you.

1st of all: I've been extremely positive after every loss this year.  I've defended buzz's not practicing FT's, I haven't participated in any "he doesn't know how to use time outs" talk, although I said fatigue was a factor of FSU i was very mild in pinning any blame on buzz, and i've stated several times that no matter how bad things get this season buzz has my support for, at least, 2 more years.
2nd of all:  That comment had NOTHING to do with the fact that we lost.  If WV misses that buzzer beater I make the same joke. 
3rd of all:  If you understand the teal than act like it.  Don't say you understand and then pretend it wasn't there.

Some people made some statements that were laughably wrong about the skill level of our freshman class, take the ribbing like a man.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: warthog-driver on December 31, 2009, 04:32:08 AM
Quote from: Daniel on December 30, 2009, 10:59:42 AM
I agree - we don;t lose anything by giving Erik some/all of Mbao's minutes - he is a better defender (lots of work to do still, but better), rebounds, can put back off. rebounds, etc.  So how we think we are losing anyting putting Erik in over Mbao at this point I don't know.

Then again, I'm not the coach, and he must know something we don't.

The Erik Williams situation is getting sorted as we speak. Erik's father is enroute Milwaukee to tell Buzz just what is what. He is rightfully upset that his son is not being employed properly. I believe we can expect to see the offense run through Erik from here on out.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on December 31, 2009, 08:36:46 AM
Quote from: RawdogDX on December 30, 2009, 01:18:53 PM
One would think that, as part of our best recruiting class of all time, EW would be able to earn a few minutes by now.

I know you are being sarcastic, but there is some truth here.

I think Ewill still might end up being a very nice player... but this is exactly why I don't drool over recruits and start making projections like some others do.


"Ooooh, we've got 2 top ten rated recruiting classes in a row, MU is going to win the Big East in 2 years"

Let's let the kids get into school, and see if the coaching staff can help them develop before we start projecting conference championships.

Certainly it's important to get highly ranked players, but not many kids can come in and have a significant impact in their first year (or two).

With this said, Ewill has shown some nice moves around the basket and some pretty good hands in limited playing time. I have to assume that he's not playing because he's not picking up the scheme yet.
Title: Re: no E Williams
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 31, 2009, 08:55:14 AM
Quote from: CTWarrior on December 30, 2009, 03:51:08 PM
(btw, I'm pretty sure we increased our advantage while Mbao was in the game, but I couldn't back that up with anything specifically useful that he did)
Correct: The announcers specifically mentioned that Marquette outscored WV either 5-3 or 5-4 while Mbao played.
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