Too bad, another game MU should have won. Brutal turnovers down the stretch, two misses on the front end of a 1 and 1 with under a minute to play. Another missed free throw when shooting two, and ole defense down the stretch.
Shame, this would have been a huge win. Buzz had the guys playing great for 38 minutes. The last two minutes were forgettable.
The team just can't seem to close games out. That was a gag job, no other way to explain it. You can't be up, with the ball, at the line multiple times like that and lose the game.
DJO and Butler had "deer in the headlights" syndrome at the free throw line.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 29, 2009, 09:28:52 PM
DJO and Butler had "deer in the headlights" syndrome at the free throw line.
Yup
I give Buzz all the credit in the world. What a great effort against a bigger, better team.
That being said, #@$%^*!!!!!!!!!!! Make a @(*$&#& free throw! How frustrating! Another game choked away!
Got to feel sorry for Buzz. He takes in an undermaned team, puts in a great game plan to slow it down and look to hit threes. Then these guys can't finish. Maybe if Buzz could shoot the free throws for them.
anyone else have the feeling with 2 min left that MU was going to lose. Its too bad but it seems like we have found a way to lose every close game the last two years. Frustrating.....
Well, Butler seems to have proven he can't handle a pressure FT, so he shouldn't be touching the ball at the end of a close game where MU is ahead by a point or two.
Get Lazar the ball and make them foul. It ain't rocket science.
There should be no more calling this bunch "tough" until they learn to win games instead of choking. It's pretty bad when you can be almost certain that they will blow a 5 point lead with a minute left. Unfortunate that Lazar is too much of a team player to not keep the ball for himself and try something foolish when he was in trouble on the last possession.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 29, 2009, 09:28:52 PM
DJO and Butler had "deer in the headlights" syndrome at the free throw line.
Butler has either choked and/or didn't show up in three of our four losses. This is where Buzz is right-he's not yet a great player. He can score 20+ against cupcakes, but it's going to be a long season if he doesn't step up in big games like a good player needs to do.
Quoteanyone else have the feeling with 2 min left that MU was going to lose. Its too bad but it seems like we have found a way to lose every close game the last two years. Frustrating.....
Yes and that is why I don't feel sorry for Buzz. If you take an undermanned team that far HE has to be the difference maker. Get the ball in the hands of your best player...Lazar. Why didn't Butler pass the ball off to Acker on the way up the floor? Why is Cubillan taking the ball out of bounds at the other end of the floor as he is being guarded by a guy 1' taller? Why don't they practice FT's? Why didn't DJO pull the ball out after rebounding his own miss with 1 minute to play and a fresh 35? Questions abound and they all should be directed at The Buzz.
This is where the loss of Junior really hurts this team. As strange as it may sound, I prefer Acker handling the ball in these situations. With the exception of DJ, point guards should be most accustomed to making free throws at crunch time.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 29, 2009, 09:41:31 PM
This is where the loss of Junior really hurts this time. As strange as it may sound, I prefer Acker handling the ball in these situations. With the exception of DJ, point guards should be most accustomed to making free throws at crunch time.
Agreed.
And to the post ripping Buzz for not getting Zar the ball- Lazar becomes a bull in a china shop when he dribbles in traffic. There's no way he should get the ball in the backcourt, almost begging for a charge or a turnover.
In the frontcourt, absolutely.
Quote from: muhoops1 on December 29, 2009, 09:38:30 PM
Yes and that is why I don't feel sorry for Buzz. If you take an undermanned team that far HE has to be the difference maker. Get the ball in the hands of your best player...Lazar. Why didn't Butler pass the ball off to Acker on the way up the floor? Why is Cubillan taking the ball out of bounds at the other end of the floor as he is being guarded by a guy 1' taller? Why don't they practice FT's? Why didn't DJO pull the ball out after rebounding his own miss with 1 minute to play and a fresh 35? Questions abound and they all should be directed at The Buzz.
Buzz's game plan is the only reason they are in the game to begin with. I am perfectly comfortable with DJO on the line. Butler? Well, likely not, but he was the third option on the inbounds play.
He's the leader, he needs to figure it out. If not have him take it out of bounds where he can make a good decision (last year not withstanding). Until the other guys can prove they have the nerve at the end of a big game, Lazar needs to get the ball. For now it gives us a better chance. He played great, ride it.
Besides Lazar, Im not confident nor do I think anyone wants the ball in there hand with 2 minutes left to play. I predicted WVU making a comeback early in the second half. With the game on the line, someone has got to take initiative.
agreed that the poster that says the ball should have gone to lazar is an moron. We played that one right...we did get it in to Lazar but when he realized they were not going to foul we still needed to get the ball past the 10 second line and lazar trying to beat pressure was going to be a trainwreck. he passed butler got fouled. his Ft rattled out.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on December 29, 2009, 09:46:19 PM
He's the leader, he needs to figure it out. If not have him take it out of bounds where he can make a good decision (last year not withstanding). Until the other guys can prove they have the nerve at the end of a big game, Lazar needs to get the ball. For now it gives us a better chance. He played great, ride it.
[/quote
he did get the f&*^ing ball!
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 29, 2009, 09:48:35 PM
agreed that the poster that says the ball should have gone to lazar is an moron. We played that one right...we did get it in to Lazar but when he realized they were not going to foul we still needed to get the ball past the 10 second line and lazar trying to beat pressure was going to be a trainwreck. he passed butler got fouled. his Ft rattled out.
Or he could have called a time out, I believe. I don't think we were out of free throws but if I am wrong, please correct me.
He got it and stood there. Either make a move or call a timeout. I appreciate your opinions Hayward, but you are just an unkind person who makes unnecessary cuts on people. We clearly did not play it right, we lost. Good game, tough ending. Lazar should have made something happen.
Quote from: muhoops1 on December 29, 2009, 09:38:30 PM
Yes and that is why I don't feel sorry for Buzz. If you take an undermanned team that far HE has to be the difference maker. Get the ball in the hands of your best player...Lazar.
He did get the ball to Lazar. Lazar passed the ball to Butler. That's on Zar, not Buzz.
QuoteWhy didn't Butler pass the ball off to Acker on the way up the floor?
Terrible idea in that situation. You don't make the pass and risk the steal by WVU, you have to advance down the court and force them to foul you. If you pass they have a chance for a turnover. Can't let that happen.
Quote
Why is Cubillan taking the ball out of bounds at the other end of the floor as he is being guarded by a guy 1' taller?
Anyone MU puts out there is going to have the height disadvantage. Cubillan takes the ball out because he's the one with the best arm for the long pass should someone be able to break free long, and he's the one that makes the best decisions on who gets the ball in those situations.
QuoteWhy don't they practice FT's?
They do practice free throws. All the time...every day in fact. They just don't devote NCAA allotted practice time to it. Either way, you can't practice an end of game free throw situation, because there's no way to duplicate that kind of pressure.
QuoteQuestions abound and they all should be directed at The Buzz.
No, they shouldn't. Games like this come down to who executes the best under pressure, not coaching. Their players executed, ours didn't. It's really that simple. Short of shooting the ball for them, or instructing them to foul WVU before they got a shot off, Buzz couldn't change that.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 29, 2009, 09:42:41 PM
And to the post ripping Buzz for not getting Zar the ball- Lazar becomes a bull in a china shop when he dribbles in traffic. There's no way he should get the ball in the backcourt, almost begging for a charge or a turnover.
Didn't you see the Mythbusters episode? They literally had a bull surounded by china and he did not over a single piece! They are quite nimble. I would say a elephant in the china shop describing Lazar.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on December 29, 2009, 09:52:34 PM
He got it and stood there. Either make a move or call a timeout. I appreciate your opinions Hayward, but you are just an unkind person who makes unnecessary cuts on people. We clearly did not play it right, we lost. Good game, tough ending. Lazar should have made something happen.
Mr. Hayward had it exactly right. Lazar, for all his strengths, cannot dribble out of a fullcourt press. It's just not his game. Ideally, they get the ball in the frontcourt and then find him. Novak was the same way, he either got fouled after a rebound or in the frontcourt.
And calling a timeout there puts you in an even worse spot. Lets them setup the press while the inbound passer is frozen in the corner. Jimmy just has to hit the FTs.
You're absolutely right about Jimmy. In the position that he was in, he has to make the free throws.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 29, 2009, 09:57:52 PM
Mr. Hayward had it exactly right. Lazar, for all his strengths, cannot dribble out of a fullcourt press. It's just not his game. Ideally, they get the ball in the frontcourt and then find him. Novak was the same way, he either got fouled after a rebound or in the frontcourt.
And calling a timeout there puts you in an even worse spot. Lets them setup the press while the inbound passer is frozen in the corner. Jimmy just has to hit the FTs.
exactly the only thing worse than hayward trying to dribble would have been a timeout. Mu played it exactly right you just have to make your ft's. not a whole lot of startegy that can over come missing your free throws and them hitting every shot.
Mu played it right in bound it to Haywrd hoping they decided to foul right away. when they did not you beat the press via the pass. we did that they fouled we missed. Mu did eveything text book they just missed the ft's
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 29, 2009, 09:57:52 PM
Mr. Hayward had it exactly right. Lazar, for all his strengths, cannot dribble out of a fullcourt press. It's just not his game. Ideally, they get the ball in the frontcourt and then find him. Novak was the same way, he either got fouled after a rebound or in the frontcourt.
And calling a timeout there puts you in an even worse spot. Lets them setup the press while the inbound passer is frozen in the corner. Jimmy just has to hit the FTs.
Not sure I agree on the Timeout situation. It allows you to again setup who you want to inbound the ball. Plus, in college, the 10 second rule resets allowing you another 10 seconds to get the ball across the line (at least I believe this is the case).
Poor free throw shooting (I don't blame Buzz for this...we have a good free throw shooting team), poor defense, etc down the stretch were the killer.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on December 29, 2009, 09:52:34 PM
He got it and stood there. Either make a move or call a timeout. I appreciate your opinions Hayward, but you are just an unkind person who makes unnecessary cuts on people. We clearly did not play it right, we lost. Good game, tough ending. Lazar should have made something happen.
if me pointing out your ignorance makes me unkind then so be it. please explain Dr. naismith how did "we not play it right" ? In what way should Lazar have "made something happen" ?
comical
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 29, 2009, 10:16:44 PM
if me pointing out your ignorance makes me unkind then so be it. please explain Dr. naismith how did "we not play it right" ? In what way should Lazar have "made something happen" ?
comical
Agreed. Nothing but tired cliches.
Sorry guys but we MUST be able to count on our second best player and normally one of our best (and most experienced) free throwers to hit the front end of a one and one. Lazar should definately have passed the ball, Butler should have gotten it, no time out necessary. He simply MUST hit that free throw (and probably the second).
Damn, free throw shooting is really about the size of your heart (or truthfully probably more like the size of your balls).
Guys were going to the line afraid to lose rather than excited to win and put the dagger in.
Lets get real about this game - did anyone really think we had a legitimate chance to be in the drivers seat at the end of this game? The fact it took 2 buzzer beater shots - at the close of the half and game - both of which were high degree of difficulty/luck...speaks volumes about the job Buzz Williams has done with this team.
I will say they are tough, gritty, ultra-competitive - and their effort tonite should be celebrated. Obviously it sucks to NOT be able to pull out another close game...but this team is still largely, fairly young all things considered. MU just needs to get this monkey off the back of losing buzzer beaters..maybe should start calling the "buzz" beaters..because they keep beating his team..through basically no fault of his own, but largely credited to him for even getting this team in a position to win a game like this.
Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 29, 2009, 10:09:00 PM
Not sure I agree on the Timeout situation. It allows you to again setup who you want to inbound the ball. Plus, in college, the 10 second rule resets allowing you another 10 seconds to get the ball across the line (at least I believe this is the case).
The only thing that worries me about a timeout is the inbounder is stuck in the corner and cannot move. Combine that with WVU's length, and I'm more worried about a turnover there.
While we all want a 6-8 beast, I was really wishing for a Tony Miller at the end. A guy who could beat the press and was cold blooded from the line when it counted.
if me pointing out your ignorance makes me unkind then so be it. please explain Dr. naismith how did "we not play it right" ? In what way should Lazar have "made something happen" ?
comical
Thanks Hayward, I appreciate your comments. I wouldn't say it's ignorance, or necessarily comical, just a differing opinion. I wanted Lazar to have the ball (more than just standing there looking to dish) with the chance to get to the line, dribble, call time-out and regroup, perhaps take it out of bounds and get it right back. He's our best player and should have been the one to win it at the line. We had a chance with Jimmy, he missed, he should have made it, you're right. I do agree with that. Have a happy new year. It is always fun and interesting to read your posts, and I think your insight is always thought provoking.
Quote from: Ners on December 29, 2009, 11:08:42 PM
Lets get real about this game - did anyone really think we had a legitimate chance to be in the drivers seat at the end of this game? The fact it took 2 buzzer beater shots - at the close of the half and game - both of which were high degree of difficulty/luck...speaks volumes about the job Buzz Williams has done with this team.
I will say they are tough, gritty, ultra-competitive - and their effort tonite should be celebrated. Obviously it sucks to NOT be able to pull out another close game...but this team is still largely, fairly young all things considered. MU just needs to get this monkey off the back of losing buzzer beaters..maybe should start calling the "buzz" beaters..because they keep beating his team..through basically no fault of his own, but largely credited to him for even getting this team in a position to win a game like this.
Yeah. That's what we want. More frackin' moral victories! Yeah, let's settle for that. Great.
Quote from: gumbyandpokey on December 29, 2009, 09:35:53 PM
Well, Butler seems to have proven he can't handle a pressure FT, so he shouldn't be touching the ball at the end of a close game where MU is ahead by a point or two.
Going into that situation last night, he has been an excellent free throw shooter with the significant exception of the FSU game. I felt good about him going to the line last night, and surprised he missed it. The only way to get comfortable in those situations is to be in them. Yes, it is extremely frustrating as that would have been a huge win, especially on the road, but it is part of the process. He is far from the first to miss a pressure free throw, and won't be the last. For people to bail on him and say he should not touch the ball at the end of a game is a little ridiculous. If he was normally a 50% shooter I'd agree, but he is clearly a good FT shooter who has struggled under pressure. He'll get better at that. Hopefully SOON.
Buzz wasn't a genius for 39 minutes and an idiot for 59 seconds. He did everything right to put us in a position to win. Players have to make free throws. Simple as that. Winning begats winning. Right now it looks like choking begats choking when it comes to FT's in the last minute. Buzz gets an A for coaching. Maybe a 97% instead of 100%, but still really good.
Quote from: Ners on December 29, 2009, 11:08:42 PM
Lets get real about this game - did anyone really think we had a legitimate chance to be in the drivers seat at the end of this game? The fact it took 2 buzzer beater shots - at the close of the half and game - both of which were high degree of difficulty/luck...speaks volumes about the job Buzz Williams has done with this team.
I will say they are tough, gritty, ultra-competitive - and their effort tonite should be celebrated. Obviously it sucks to NOT be able to pull out another close game...but this team is still largely, fairly young all things considered. MU just needs to get this monkey off the back of losing buzzer beaters..maybe should start calling the "buzz" beaters..because they keep beating his team..through basically no fault of his own, but largely credited to him for even getting this team in a position to win a game like this.
We can all read this post and feel a lot better about ourselves when we're wondering if we'll get that NIT bid or not.
Quote from: tower912 on December 30, 2009, 08:08:38 AM
Buzz wasn't a genius for 39 minutes and an idiot for 59 seconds. He did everything right to put us in a position to win. Players have to make free throws. Simple as that. Winning begats winning. Right now it looks like choking begats choking when it comes to FT's in the last minute. Buzz gets an A for coaching. Maybe a 97% instead of 100%, but still really good.
+1000000000000
Buzz did a great job of coaching his team up last night. By running out the clock he seemed to make WV inpatient. Everyone talked about the difference between our team and size, this has gone on for years and will probably continue on into the near future....its all about matchups and our team was smaller and quicker and probably will be with the lineup we put out there every night.
Matchup problems will present themselves not only for us but for the other team. I don't think WV had a good game plan on offense, I don't remember them posting up often or driving too the hoop until the last minute of play. Just look at the amount of free throws they took...4. Unfortunate result especially since our schedule is tough and stealing one of these games especially our first Big East game would have been huge.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 30, 2009, 07:30:52 AM
Yeah. That's what we want. More frackin' moral victories! Yeah, let's settle for that. Great.
Sure MU should have won this game, but they did not - that doesn't mean you can't take positives from the loss. I call B.S. on any real MU fan who would say that they thought we would be in the driver's seat at the end of this game - only to fail to close out from the free throw line..again...we played a hell of a basketball game...one of the best I've seen out of MU in a long time..given everything that was lost from last year's team, injuries and the the transfer from this year's team, in an environment like that. I'll take the moral victory out of this game, even though it killed me to see how we lost.
I can't bash Buzz about this game. At the end of the day or game in this instance, our weakness are just too glaring to think Buzz is a bad coach. His coaching is actually what put us in a position to win instead of lose. Missed free throws and bad defense only magnifies are teams weaknesses, especially at the end of games where stars shine and unfortunately we don't have many or any true stars. To judge the last minute instead of the full 40 minutes is very short sighted.
We lost because:
We are severly undersized at just about every position. (Not Buzz's fault)
We are severely short handed as only 7 players are Big East caliber ready at this point in time. (Not Buzz's fault)
We don't have a Big East starting point guard. Acker/Cubillian are subs at best and Buycks is not a point.(Not Buzz's fault)
We don't have any stars that want the ball and shine at the end of games. Not a dig on Hayward, he is great but he is what he is. (Not Buzz's fault)
Add to the fact that West Virginia is a very good team. Has a legit NBA lottery pick. Has a great coach with a ton of experience. And played at home and we should be satisfied with our team's effort.
Quote from: tower912 on December 30, 2009, 08:08:38 AM
Buzz wasn't a genius for 39 minutes and an idiot for 59 seconds. He did everything right to put us in a position to win. Players have to make free throws. Simple as that. Winning begats winning. Right now it looks like choking begats choking when it comes to FT's in the last minute. Buzz gets an A for coaching. Maybe a 97% instead of 100%, but still really good.
I don't think anyone is saying that, but it can happen....to suggest someone coached or played well for the whole game and couldn't have a brain cramp at the end is a bit disingenious, don't you think? Not saying it happened here, but it happens all the time. Chris Webber in the NCAA final....Brett Favre in countless big games, Lazar Hayward in the NCAA tournament last year, etc, etc.
Same with coaching....my biggest concern was the defense in the last minute...it's as if they were told to play very aggressively because we had two fouls to give and then back off completely and don't foul at all which led to a wide open slam dunk, etc.
Lazar's defense on the last shot was the best it could have been without fouling. Stayed with the guy through a series of moves and then got his hand in the face of the guy shooting a twisting, fallaway 19 footer. The other baskets looked like individual breakdowns instead of systemic failures. Moping down the floor because you missed a ft. C'mon. I have seen Buzz make mistakes. This one is on the FT shooters down the stretch.
Quote from: mufanatic on December 30, 2009, 09:56:57 AM
We lost because:
We are severly undersized at just about every position. (Not Buzz's fault)
We are severely short handed as only 7 players are Big East caliber ready at this point in time. (Not Buzz's fault)
We don't have a Big East starting point guard. Acker/Cubillian are subs at best and Buycks is not a point.(Not Buzz's fault)
We don't have any stars that want the ball and shine at the end of games. Not a dig on Hayward, he is great but he is what he is. (Not Buzz's fault)
Add to the fact that West Virginia is a very good team. Has a legit NBA lottery pick. Has a great coach with a ton of experience. And played at home and we should be satisfied with our team's effort.
I'm getting sick of these excuses.
No stars...we have a preseason All Big East player on our team.
You seem to be saying we lost because of things you mention yet somehow we beat these teams for 39 minutes and 58 seconds only to finally be overcome at the last second. C'mon.
This is a game MU should have won...PERIOD! We outplayed them and lost. We SHOULD NOT BE SATISFIED. This was a game we gagged and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. I'm not blaming Buzz at all....but all these excuses. Despite the comments you make above, height didn't miss free throws...a short bench didn't miss free throws or break down defensively....etc, etc.
Stop with the excuses....that was a game MU should have won. FSU was a game MU should have won. NC State was a game MU should have won. They didn't execute, period!
Buzz coached a great game, and had us in it and potentially winning. We missed some FTs - well, sometimes the pressure gets to these kids. We need to lighten up on these kids - as said, they DO practice free throws, just not on the NCAA allocated time.
Great game. Tough loss.
The more I think about last night's finish to the game, the more I get frustrated. Luckily I have Marky Mark & The Funky Bunch playing on my Ipod right now to calm the anger.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 30, 2009, 10:47:08 AM
I'm getting sick of these excuses.
No stars...we have a preseason All Big East player on our team.
You seem to be saying we lost because of things you mention yet somehow we beat these teams for 39 minutes and 58 seconds only to finally be overcome at the last second. C'mon.
This is a game MU should have won...PERIOD! We outplayed them and lost. We SHOULD NOT BE SATISFIED. This was a game we gagged and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. I'm not blaming Buzz at all....but all these excuses. Despite the comments you make above, height didn't miss free throws...a short bench didn't miss free throws or break down defensively....etc, etc.
Stop with the excuses....that was a game MU should have won. FSU was a game MU should have won. NC State was a game MU should have won. They didn't execute, period!
I wasn't making excuses I was stating facts. I wasn't making excuses why we lost, I was stating facts if you ask anyone in college basketball, they would say West Virginia is more talented. I wasn't making excuses why we lost, I was stating that Buzz should get kudos for putting us in a position to win this game. I find it funny that you emphasis our bad defense over the last 2 minutes of the game but discount the fact that West Virginia had what 10, 15 made shots from 5 feet away from the basket. Height didn't miss free throws, height allowed West Virginia to get at least half of the points they got. Height matters. You look at a 90 second span and I look at 40 minutes. You say Hayward is preseason ALl Big east player and I see no one on this team that wants the ball at the end of the game that includes Hayward. Conversely, Butler and Ebanks sure did.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 30, 2009, 10:47:08 AM
I'm getting sick of these excuses.
No stars...we have a preseason All Big East player on our team.
You seem to be saying we lost because of things you mention yet somehow we beat these teams for 39 minutes and 58 seconds only to finally be overcome at the last second. C'mon.
This is a game MU should have won...PERIOD! We outplayed them and lost. We SHOULD NOT BE SATISFIED. This was a game we gagged and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. I'm not blaming Buzz at all....but all these excuses. Despite the comments you make above, height didn't miss free throws...a short bench didn't miss free throws or break down defensively....etc, etc.
Stop with the excuses....that was a game MU should have won. FSU was a game MU should have won. NC State was a game MU should have won. They didn't execute, period!
Yes MU should have won. And we would have, but for a 40 ft off one leg bank at the end of the half, a 20 ft turn around jumper at the end of the game, and missed free throws (twice) on our part. Chances of all four happening? 10%x40%x25%x25%=.0025. That's once every 400 times. Even given the missed free throws, WVU wins that game maybe 2.5x out of 100. So incredible bad luck conspired with our own mistakes to cost us a game we never should have lost - even though they had bigger, stronger and better personnel and were playing at home. That WVU needed our mistakes + one heave + one great shot to edge us in Morgantown is testimony to great coaching and near flawless execution on MU's part. The good news is we won't always be the third shortest team in D1 and we won't always be trying to get it done with only a handful of Big East ready players.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 30, 2009, 02:34:47 PM
Yes MU should have won. And we would have, but for a 40 ft off one leg bank at the end of the half, a 20 ft turn around jumper at the end of the game, and missed free throws (twice) on our part. Chances of all four happening? 10%x40%x25%x25%=.0025. That's once every 400 times. Even given the missed free throws, WVU wins that game maybe 2.5x out of 100. So incredible bad luck conspired with our own mistakes to cost us a game we never should have lost - even though they had bigger, stronger and better personnel and were playing at home. That WVU needed our mistakes + one heave + one great shot to edge us in Morgantown is testimony to great coaching and near flawless execution on MU's part. The good news is we won't always be the third shortest team in D1 and we won't always be trying to get it done with only a handful of Big East ready players.
Yeah, but doesn't it always seem a little more likely when Marquette is playing
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 30, 2009, 02:34:47 PM
Yes MU should have won. And we would have, but for a 40 ft off one leg bank at the end of the half, a 20 ft turn around jumper at the end of the game, and missed free throws (twice) on our part. Chances of all four happening? 10%x40%x25%x25%=.0025. That's once every 400 times. Even given the missed free throws, WVU wins that game maybe 2.5x out of 100. So incredible bad luck conspired with our own mistakes to cost us a game we never should have lost - even though they had bigger, stronger and better personnel and were playing at home. That WVU needed our mistakes + one heave + one great shot to edge us in Morgantown is testimony to great coaching and near flawless execution on MU's part. The good news is we won't always be the third shortest team in D1 and we won't always be trying to get it done with only a handful of Big East ready players.
Excuses....we should have won. For every miracle shot there are dozens that should have gone in that didn't which we were the beneficiaries of.
Quote from: LAZER on December 30, 2009, 02:42:22 PM
Yeah, but doesn't it always seem a little more likely when Marquette is playing
Certainly seems like we've lost more than our share of coin flips the last few years. Hopefully it evens out soon.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 30, 2009, 03:00:28 PM
Excuses....we should have won. For every miracle shot there are dozens that should have gone in that didn't which we were the beneficiaries of.
How many "dozens"? Three maybe? Guess we should have lost by 36 then. If that miracle shot happened at the end of the game (instead of the end of the half) in a 1 point loss would it count for more than 3 points? I'm not saying we couldn't or shouldn't have won last night IN SPITE OF being unlucky. But that doesn't mean we weren't unlucky.
Quote from: mufanatic on December 30, 2009, 09:56:57 AM
I can't bash Buzz about this game. At the end of the day or game in this instance, our weakness are just too glaring to think Buzz is a bad coach. His coaching is actually what put us in a position to win instead of lose. Missed free throws and bad defense only magnifies are teams weaknesses, especially at the end of games where stars shine and unfortunately we don't have many or any true stars. To judge the last minute instead of the full 40 minutes is very short sighted.
We lost because:
We are severly undersized at just about every position. (Not Buzz's fault)
We are severely short handed as only 7 players are Big East caliber ready at this point in time. (Not Buzz's fault)
We don't have a Big East starting point guard. Acker/Cubillian are subs at best and Buycks is not a point.(Not Buzz's fault)
We don't have any stars that want the ball and shine at the end of games. Not a dig on Hayward, he is great but he is what he is. (Not Buzz's fault)
Add to the fact that West Virginia is a very good team. Has a legit NBA lottery pick. Has a great coach with a ton of experience. And played at home and we should be satisfied with our team's effort.
I'd like to point out that there is no way West Virginia is the 6th best team in the country. While they had a significant height advantage, they didn't have a 6-10 giant we had no match-up for and more importatnly,
they don't currently have a single healthy guard.
This is one we could have/should have had. (And one I think we really will wish we had gotten when we get to March). Buzz did the right thing resting on offense so we could play pressure defense late into the second half despite our lack of depth. The missed free throws hurt, but so did Buycks not diving on the loose ball in the lane when we had the 5 point lead with a minute to go, and so did giving up two quick fouls just because we could and then allowng an uncontested drive for a dunk. It was a complete collapse at the end. The winning shot was a great basketball play and very lucky, but it shouldn't have gotten that far.
There's always a flip side to the "bad break" argument. We shot 10-17 from three and Lazar suddenly found the stroke he hasn't had for awhile. There will be a game when we go 4-17 against a worse opponent and lose by a lot. There will be a lot of teams with a huge size advantage, but there likely won't be another that manages just four free throw attempts against us. It's the conference opener, coming off a blowout that didn't exactly exert the starters, so the lack of depth/7 man argument is nothing right now compared to how much impact it may/will have later.
We couldn't have been set up much better for a win but found a way to choke it away again. It'll be more "great effort" than "bad luck" when we keep a game close despite our three pointers just not falling, the other team having a decent game plan and getting to the line, and our 7 players barely able to stand in February, though I'm sure instead we'll hear how terrible our team is and how badly they were coached.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 30, 2009, 03:30:33 PM
How many "dozens"? Three maybe? Guess we should have lost by 36 then. If that miracle shot happened at the end of the game (instead of the end of the half) in a 1 point loss would it count for more than 3 points? I'm not saying we couldn't or shouldn't have won last night IN SPITE OF being unlucky. But that doesn't mean we weren't unlucky.
I appreciate the explanation because for a second I thought you were saying we lost because we were unlucky. I'd say the first shot was lucky, the second shot was just a great shot. But there were also some bunnies that they missed that they should have made...that was my point...far more of those types of shots.
I'd love to see some killer instinct on this team but it isn't there yet. Someone that will step up (yes, cliche time), want the ball and will make shots. They are playing hard, Buzz is drawing up good game plans, shame that it is going to waste.
This isn't a great team, it's a good team that is scrappy, would love to see them enjoy a few fruits for their labor.