Well we final got to see extended minutes from Mbao. I'm trying to think back to Barro's freshman season but Mbao certainly didn't show anything today. I don't like Buzz putting him out at the top of the zone. Lets face it this guy has got to develop as either an in the paint shot blocker or a defensive rebounder or he can't help us much. Putting him out at the top of a zone gets him neither of these . However down low he is really lost. He seems to have an uncanny knack for being on the side the rebound does come off to. He is very timid and appears to be easily blocked out by much smaller players (well duh I guess everybody is much smaller). He just doesn't have any sense of going after a rebound when the shot goes up.
We are sooo desperate for height and I'd love to think Mbao can develop but he has a long way to go. Any other thoughts?
I think Buzz signed him in late spring, so there must have been a good reason why a 7'2" guy was still available, right? He appears to be a total project and should have redshirted, but couldn't because of the lack of bodies with height. Sure hasn't showed any potential.
I think any 7'2" freshman that moves his feet that well and gets up and down the floor quickly shows something.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on December 27, 2009, 06:45:24 PM
I think any 7'2" freshman that moves his feet that well and gets up and down the floor quickly shows something.
spot on. Just curious to know what those who say "Mbao hasn't shown anything" were expecting?
I was thinking the same thing about the zone today and wondering why he is put at the top. Why not put him under the basket and dfend some shots, or get a rebound. The couple of times they got th eball into him, he kicked it back out.
He is raw, but he moves very quickly. If he can learn to rebound and block/alter some shots, would be helpful. He has a hard time clearing out anyone at this point, but he has potential. We will need him to do something in the BEast.
Would a sophomore redshirt help him now that he is understanding the speed and physical nature of the game? Plus, there may be more depth next year.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on December 27, 2009, 08:04:08 PM
Would a sophomore redshirt help him now that he is understanding the speed and physical nature of the game? Plus, there may be more depth next year.
Absolutely. We look very deep at center next year.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on December 27, 2009, 06:45:24 PM
I think any 7'2" freshman that moves his feet that well and gets up and down the floor quickly shows something.
Totally agree here. If anyone has seen him during previous games, he can really move. For being as tall as he is, Mbao has some great mobility and speed.
Its clear Buzz does not think Mbao can bang in the middle. Hence, maybe at this point, having him in the front court to cause some disruption is where Buzz feels Mbao can contribute this year.
Yous needs to keep his arms up and /or extended. He is playing very short right now crouching over and keeping his arms down. And, yes, he should redshirt as a soph ala Amal McCaskill.
Quote from: NCMUFan on December 27, 2009, 09:24:31 PM
Its clear Buzz does not think Mbao can bang in the middle. Hence, maybe at this point, having him in the front court to cause some disruption is where Buzz feels Mbao can contribute this year.
Exactly. Do you really think that playing the inside against Presbyterian is going to help us at all this year?
Quote from: mwbauer7 on December 27, 2009, 07:21:15 PM
spot on. Just curious to know what those who say "Mbao hasn't shown anything" were expecting?
I wasn't expecting a lot from a late spring addition that other major teams obviously weren't interested in. He's shown some quickness and the ability to get up and down the court. But he needs to score, rebound and block shots against BEAST opponents to be an asset. Hopefully that will come eventually.
Put 25lbs on this guy and he's all Big East
Quote from: WarriorHal on December 27, 2009, 10:50:52 PM
But he needs to score, rebound and block shots against BEAST opponents to be an asset.
If Yous can do even one of those three very well by the time he's a junior, I would term his recruitment a mild success.
Quote from: Daniel on December 27, 2009, 07:38:34 PM
I was thinking the same thing about the zone today and wondering why he is put at the top. Why not put him under the basket and dfend some shots, or get a rebound. The couple of times they got th eball into him, he kicked it back out.
He is raw, but he moves very quickly. If he can learn to rebound and block/alter some shots, would be helpful. He has a hard time clearing out anyone at this point, but he has potential. We will need him to do something in the BEast.
Typically coaches put their big man at the top of a zone if the opponent has a lights out shooter at the top of the key whose shot they want to alter...that said, though, Wisco doesn't have any scary shooters from the outside and I don't think ANYTHING about Presbytarian is scary...personally I think Buzz should be getting him experience in the paint (use him the way Calhoun used Thabeet when he was a tall, lanky frosh with limited ability)...
But I'm not an NCAA coach, Buzz is, so I suppose we should trust his judgement (as strange as it may be...)
Look, no one should have expected much from him this year. He has only played ball for a couple of years. If he can add some strength and mass, he will be a different player. He can't even get his arms up if he is in tight with a player, and like many young big men he looses his balance if bumped. These are strength and mass/weight issues.
That being said, he moves like a small forward, and has great hands. Two things that are important and limit the ceiling of most big men. I think he is two years of hard work away, but I think he has a very high ceiling. Most big men can't move like he can, and most big men are not as coordinated. The first thing I look for with young big men is how they move their feet/quickness and if they have good hands. If a big man has it all, but has bad hands - good luck, as they rarely significantly improve their hands.
I've watched him before games and at the open practices. He has a nice little jumper, is very coordinated, moves well, good to great hands for a big man, etc. He is just way to light and needs reps and needs to learn the game. If he sticks it out for two more years, I think anyone that used teal will need to eat their words. He has a lot to learn and needs to add a lot of strength and size. He may not be able to add the size and strength, but if he can, I think we'll have a legit Big East 7'2" player by his Junior year.
Quote from: MU_Iceman on December 28, 2009, 11:31:40 AM
Typically coaches put their big man at the top of a zone if the opponent has a lights out shooter at the top of the key whose shot they want to alter...that said, though, Wisco doesn't have any scary shooters from the outside and I don't think ANYTHING about Presbytarian is scary...personally I think Buzz should be getting him experience in the paint (use him the way Calhoun used Thabeet when he was a tall, lanky frosh with limited ability)...
I think Buzz knows that he is getting nothing out of Yous this year in the paint. Putting him out on the top of the zone is where he will be used this year. You can put a big guy out there not only to stop a shooter, but to jump out on the swing, which is probably what Buzz was thinking against UW.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 28, 2009, 10:21:34 PM
I think Buzz knows that he is getting nothing out of Yous this year in the paint. Putting him out on the top of the zone is where he will be used this year. You can put a big guy out there not only to stop a shooter, but to jump out on the swing, which is probably what Buzz was thinking against UW.
The question is then is Buzz sacrificing future progress to win this year by playing him at the top, instead of getting reps down low?
I am not an expert in big men, just asking if you guys think Buzz is more focused in utilizing him the best this year or more focused on his future development.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 29, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
The question is then is Buzz sacrificing future progress to win this year by playing him at the top, instead of getting reps down low?
I am not an expert in big men, just asking if you guys think Buzz is more focused in utilizing him the best this year or more focused on his future development.
In my opinion (and what the hell do I know), the "reps" that Mbao needs will come in practice. A big man isn't going to learn post moves with 12-15 (or more) possessions in a game. He's going to learn the moves by doing them hundreds or thousands of times in practice (or after practice on his own). I think game experience is important, but Mbao won't become the player we need him to become by getting relatively few reps in games. When game time rolls around, I think Buzz should use Mbao however he feels is most likely to lead to victory.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 29, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
The question is then is Buzz sacrificing future progress to win this year by playing him at the top, instead of getting reps down low?
I am not an expert in big men, just asking if you guys think Buzz is more focused in utilizing him the best this year or more focused on his future development.
His development isn't going to come playing inside against the likes of Presbyterian. His development will come in practice time and in summer work outs. Buzz is simply finding a way to get him to contribute what little he can this year.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 29, 2009, 09:33:47 AM
His development isn't going to come playing inside against the likes of Presbyterian. His development will come in practice time and in summer work outs. Buzz is simply finding a way to get him to contribute what little he can this year.
+1
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 29, 2009, 09:33:47 AM
His development isn't going to come playing inside against the likes of Presbyterian. His development will come in practice time and in summer work outs. Buzz is simply finding a way to get him to contribute what little he can this year.
But do we really feel Marquette's program currently consists of anything that will remotely challenge him in getting ready to be a contributor during Big East games in the future?
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 29, 2009, 10:14:03 AM
But do we really feel Marquette's program currently consists of anything that will remotely challenge him in getting ready to be a contributor during Big East games in the future?
Yes. Better to get consistent action against BE quality players in practice than garbage time minutes against cupcakes. Otule and Mbao are better than anything Presbyterian is going to throw at you.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 29, 2009, 10:45:07 AM
Yes. Better to get consistent action against BE quality players in practice than garbage time minutes against cupcakes. Otule and Mbao are better than anything Presbyterian is going to throw at you.
But his primary action in practice is Otule (who is not practicing now) who has played all of 12 college games and barely seen action in the Big East. I'm not so sure that portends good development for Mbao, or even Otule for that matter.
For now, in my opinion, our bigs will improve in
spite of what's in our program rather then
because of whats in our program. That said, any game action is positive.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 29, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
But his primary action in practice is Otule (who is not practicing now) who has played all of 12 college games and barely seen action in the Big East. I'm not so sure that portends good development for Mbao, or even Otule for that matter.
I think much of what Mbao needs to work on is mechanical and he will need thousands of repetitions without any opposition at all. Many players (including NBA all stars) work on the same move (e.g., drop step to the left, drop step to the right, etc.) thousands of times as someone just feeds them the ball. I think Mbao needs a whole lot of this type of practice in order to become the player we all would like him to become. If he plays in the post in games he may get a dozen or two touches (if that many). While that will provide some benefit to him, it's just a start. I'm not suggesting that he doesn't need experience against competition (Otule or otherwise), but he also needs a lot of development that will come from work in an empty gym. As I said before I think Buzz should plug him into games however Buzz thinks will give us the best chance to win that game. I think that where Mbao plays in these games has very, very little effect on his future development. That will come in practice.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 29, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
But his primary action in practice is Otule (who is not practicing now) who has played all of 12 college games and barely seen action in the Big East. I'm not so sure that portends good development for Mbao, or even Otule for that matter.
Even today, one of the most common drills for big men is still the Mikan Drill. It's just the player, the ball and the basket. No on trying to stop them, no coach feeding them the ball. Yet it's still probably the most common drill used by big men to improve touch around the basket and work on bettering their footwork.
Practicing against another big man will come, but a lot of what big men do to get better involves them working on their own on something the coach taught them, or them working with a coach and no defender.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on December 29, 2009, 03:32:26 PM
I think much of what Mbao needs to work on is mechanical and he will need thousands of repetitions without any opposition at all. Many players (including NBA all stars) work on the same move (e.g., drop step to the left, drop step to the right, etc.) thousands of times as someone just feeds them the ball. I think Mbao needs a whole lot of this type of practice in order to become the player we all would like him to become. If he plays in the post in games he may get a dozen or two touches (if that many). While that will provide some benefit to him, it's just a start. I'm not suggesting that he doesn't need experience against competition (Otule or otherwise), but he also needs a lot of development that will come from work in an empty gym. As I said before I think Buzz should plug him into games however Buzz thinks will give us the best chance to win that game. I think that where Mbao plays in these games has very, very little effect on his future development. That will come in practice.
Yeah, this is exactly right. Putting him on top of a zone now is really the only way Buzz thinks he can contribute this year. There is no reason to stick him in a useless game and think that it is somehow going to make a difference this year.
Ok we touched on how Buzz will use Mbao on defense. Now how about on offense, what can he do that will benefit the team?
Quote from: NCMUFan on December 29, 2009, 04:09:47 PM
Ok we touched on how Buzz will use Mbao on defense. Now how about on offense, what can he do that will benefit the team?
I've always hoped he'd turn into a Thabeet. Thabeet didn't have much offense at first, but he could hang down low and catch an inlet pass 8 feet in the air and effectively redistribute the ball back to the perimeter for a drive or a shot. Until Mbao has post moves it would be nice if he could do that as well as pulling down an Orebound or two.
Quote from: bma725 on December 29, 2009, 03:55:44 PM
Even today, one of the most common drills for big men is still the Mikan Drill. It's just the player, the ball and the basket. No on trying to stop them, no coach feeding them the ball. Yet it's still probably the most common drill used by big men to improve touch around the basket and work on bettering their footwork.
Practicing against another big man will come, but a lot of what big men do to get better involves them working on their own on something the coach taught them, or them working with a coach and no defender.
Hey, I totally understand skill development. I get that Mbao needs a shitload of hours in that area just to be somewhat effective.
My main point is that when its time for Mbao to use those skills developed with the Mikan and other drills, its not like he's going to find the quality inside the Al that he'll find outside the Al. I don't think we can say "oh, he'll get the time in during practice and he'll be Big East quality down the road" if we don't bring in any real competition for either player.
Btw, for anyone to expect Thabeet I think that's wild. I'd say a more apt comparison would be N'Dyiae(sp?) from Rutgers. I also don't think we're going to see anything from Mbao this year but I find it strange some fans think it meaningless if he plays in a game against PC or North Florida.
Quote from: GOO on December 28, 2009, 12:35:27 PM
Look, no one should have expected much from him this year. He has only played ball for a couple of years. If he can add some strength and mass, he will be a different player. He can't even get his arms up if he is in tight with a player, and like many young big men he looses his balance if bumped. These are strength and mass/weight issues.
That being said, he moves like a small forward, and has great hands. Two things that are important and limit the ceiling of most big men. I think he is two years of hard work away, but I think he has a very high ceiling. Most big men can't move like he can, and most big men are not as coordinated. The first thing I look for with young big men is how they move their feet/quickness and if they have good hands. If a big man has it all, but has bad hands - good luck, as they rarely significantly improve their hands.
I've watched him before games and at the open practices. He has a nice little jumper, is very coordinated, moves well, good to great hands for a big man, etc. He is just way to light and needs reps and needs to learn the game. If he sticks it out for two more years, I think anyone that used teal will need to eat their words. He has a lot to learn and needs to add a lot of strength and size. He may not be able to add the size and strength, but if he can, I think we'll have a legit Big East 7'2" player by his Junior year.
chicos why dont you copy this post and then paste it and act like an idiot any time a post refernceing Mbao comes up.
BTW very well said GOO i absolutely 100% agree with you, yet Chicos insecurities cause him to mock me about me feelings on Mbao at every opportunity.. Must suck to be so short and insecure
Quote from: bma725 on December 29, 2009, 03:55:44 PM
Even today, one of the most common drills for big men is still the Mikan Drill. It's just the player, the ball and the basket. No on trying to stop them, no coach feeding them the ball. Yet it's still probably the most common drill used by big men to improve touch around the basket and work on bettering their footwork.
Practicing against another big man will come, but a lot of what big men do to get better involves them working on their own on something the coach taught them, or them working with a coach and no defender.
well said BMA in fact most skill development work is done with out any defense at all. Why add a defensder before the player has mastered the skill? Addionally alot of big man work can be done with blocking pads. Mbao simply needs hours and hours in the gym and thousands of reps. additionally he needs to play alot!! and before anyone goes off the handle i am referring to open gyms, 3 on 3 work and 4on 4 work, game time at this point is argaubly not even any good for him, if anything it may even hurt his confidence. all that and hundreds of hours in the weight room and at the training table
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 29, 2009, 04:59:41 PM
chicos why dont you copy this post and then paste it and act like an idiot any time a post refernceing Mbao comes up.
BTW very well said GOO i absolutely 100% agree with you, yet Chicos insecurities cause him to mock me about me feelings on Mbao at every opportunity.. Must suck to be so short and insecure
mocking when he knows he is wrong is Chico's MO.