Maymon may not have realized the type of talent that Buzz would be able to bring in after him.
As a high school player, one might have seen Marquette as a place where you play in some big games, get ranked in the top 25 often, and if you get a spot its yours. That is, why go to a big name school and be the 8th man when you could start as a freshman or soph at MU and continue to play the whole time.
Crean takes a lot of slack for tanning and his used car salesman personality, but while he was an above average recruiter, he showed that he could never recruit depth. Diener, Merrit, Novak, James, Matthews, McNeal, Hayward, Barro (to some extent), etc. all cracked the starting line-up and then never had to worry about their time. Joe Chapman, Maurice Acker, Hazel, Grimm, Amorroso, Trend, Cooby, Brandon Bell, Kairon Bradly, etc. were never going to take their spot. Crean also was never going to recruit past anyone.
Now we have Buzz. J-May saw a ton of minutes open and comitted. But, Buzz also developed Jimmy and found DJO this year, and next year also got Jones. Buzz got Junior, but also got Smith and Blue to play point if Junior doesn't have it. Getting Smith ,an almost top 100 player, to come to MU and be the 5th guard (Blue, Buycks, DJO, Junior ahead of him I would imagine) as a freshman is a great thing for the program. We project to have more depth, which is a good thing for Marquette, but not good for someone who wants to come in and put up Three Amigo numbers.
The Three Amigos came along at a time when their coach could not recruit any depth behind them and the cupboard was bare when they got here. Therefore, they were able to make the all-time scoring list without being the best players to come through Marquette. Maymon probably sensed that he would get the same opportunity. That era is over, so hopefully players come here ready to compete for minutes. And hopefully Buzz maintains his strong recruiting.
Interesting, but can backfire, too. It takes time for kids to develop and many want to be given that chance. If you recruit over them, that's fine but we're going to have ramifications as a result with transfers, etc.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 17, 2009, 06:38:33 PM
Interesting, but can backfire, too. It takes time for kids to develop and many want to be given that chance. If you recruit over them, that's fine but we're going to have ramifications as a result with transfers, etc.
So, which PF is Buzz signing at mid-year?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 17, 2009, 06:40:19 PM
So, which PF is Buzz signing at mid-year?
Great question...I'm guessing another JUCO but we'll see.
If he can sign a very good PF at mid-year the legend of his recruiting will grow. And I hope it does!
I think any time you can bring in more talent it helps and I think it helps weed out the weak or the ones who are really only out for themselves. I think you bring up a great point about Crean recruiting talent but not depth. If you look at programs like North Carolina and Duke (who looks like they are on the way down, I hope) they are able to recruit top 50 players even when they have a rediculous amount of talent. I think a lot of that is reputation of the school obviously, and the fact many of those guys leave early for the NBA opening a spot for someone else. Regardless, I still only see depth in recruiting as a positive. It makes players work harder for minutes and makes the team better as a whole. Sure you may lose some people because they want more playing time, but like I said, you will find out who really wants to be there.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 17, 2009, 06:44:47 PM
Great question...I'm guessing another JUCO but we'll see.
Or, look "West Young Man" (or a bit north for you)? I fully suspect there is more to the JMay story, as you suggest.
Evil Pat,
You've inferred this several times. Dude, you got solid info or just wishful thinking?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 17, 2009, 07:03:50 PM
Evil Pat,
You've inferred this several times. Dude, you got solid info or just wishful thinking?
If he is referring to Mr. Wilson, I don't know about that. He is starting to get some great playing time with the Ducks.
Deep recruiting certainly has its problems...but they are generally the right kind to have. I'd rather have guys leaving mid-year b/c they don't see themselves as good enough to play than have to play people who aren't good enough to compete.
The point about Duke and UNC is a good one...look at UNC where you have a guy like Ed Davis who was a 6th man last year and is now a high level starter. It's not a bad bind to be in.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 17, 2009, 06:56:09 PM
Or, look "West Young Man" (or a bit north for you)? I fully suspect there is more to the JMay story, as you suggest.
Does it quack?
I've heard the rumors, I think it all depends on how long Ernie is there and how much he likes being away from home. Oregon is a great place to go to school, a ton of fun in many ways. Seems like he is doing well there so far, but then again, perception isn't always reality as we've all learned this week.
Quote from: akmarq on December 17, 2009, 07:14:08 PM
Deep recruiting certainly has its problems...but they are generally the right kind to have. I'd rather have guys leaving mid-year b/c they don't see themselves as good enough to play than have to play people who aren't good enough to compete.
The point about Duke and UNC is a good one...look at UNC where you have a guy like Ed Davis who was a 6th man last year and is now a high level starter. It's not a bad bind to be in.
I agree that deep recruiting has problems and that they are the good ones to have. Every situation has its drawbacks but the good outweighs the bad. Give me a kid who sees a player starting on a team and wants to come in and compete against that player for time rather than a kid who is looking for the quickest and easiest way to the court to fill up a stat sheet. Give me Jamail Jones who is coming in to play behind Jimmy even though he is a top 100 player. Give me Reggie Smith who sees higher ranked recruits ahead of him coming in here. Playing time is a consideration for every recruit when picking a school, and rightfully so. But hopefully we are at a level where our coach, conference, and tradition (to borrow a word that Indiana's coach uses to get off the subject of how bad his team is) will get kids here.
One lesson for Buzz, though, is that he needs to change the way he sells kids on PT. I know he never promised anyhing for free to anyone, but he may have to change the words he uses.
Now, I only wish that depth would become an issue at PF and C rather than at guard and SF only... Though Otule/Mbao/2010 Recruit 4 (hopefully) should be a good battle next offseason for minutes at the 5.
As Buzz has said many times, he'd love to have 13 scholarship players - interchangable parts - where he could look down the bench and sub in a playerr and not lose much or anything. That's the goal - and if he gets there, then everyone will get some pt and get in the game.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 17, 2009, 07:03:50 PM
Evil Pat,
You've inferred this several times. Dude, you got solid info or just wishful thinking?
MUScoop Sudoko
Buzz raves about kid as unselfish. Family brings along stud friend. Kid earns more PT. Dad cheering wildly for MU in hometown. Kid does well in school. Team thinks friend happy. Family meets with Admin. Coach and team unaware. Kid transfers at most inopportune time. All within a few days. Buzz already has open scholie. Buzz targets big man. Semesters end around the country. Christmas break here. Unease in other places.
Is Wilson a PF?
No, not what I remember. Call him more of a 3.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 17, 2009, 08:52:07 PM
No, not what I remember. Call him more of a 3.
Exactly. Not a PF.
Who else for Buzz? Any NoFLA visitors?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 17, 2009, 08:37:04 PM
MUScoop Sudoko
Buzz raves about kid as unselfish. Family brings along stud friend. Kid earns more PT. Dad cheering wildly for MU in hometown. Kid does well in school. Team thinks friend happy. Family meets with Admin. Coach and team unaware. Kid transfers at most inopportune time. All within a few days. Buzz already has open scholie. Buzz targets big man. Semesters end around the country. Christmas break here. Unease in other places.
Is Wilson a PF?
This seems to be the conspiracy theory of conspiracy theories!! Let me decode - Buzz raves about kid (Maymon) as unselfish. Family (Maymon Family) brings along stud friend (Vander Blue). Kid (Maymon) earns more PT. Dad (Tim Maymon) cheering wildly for MU in hometown (Madison). Kid (Maymon) does well in school. Team thinks friend (Vander Blue) happy. Family (Maymon) meets with Admin. Coach and team unaware. Kid (Maymon) transfers at most inopportune time. From here...I have no idea what or how the above conspiracy theory ties into MU now having two open scholarships for 2010? It's not like we can recruit someone to come in and play the first part of 2010 to replace Maymon? Buzz still had an open scholarship for 2010 without Maymon leaving..that he could have filled with a Wilson or other transfer? Not like he wasn't trying to fill that last scholarship with Tarik Black. What do the Maymon's get out of this, if this "Sudoko" theory were true.
Sorry Dr. Blackheart- don't know you..but you really seem to be floating a pretty crazy theory here.
Quote from: Ners on December 17, 2009, 09:59:54 PM
This seems to be the conspiracy theory of conspiracy theories!! Sorry Dr. Blackheart- don't know you..but you really seem to be floating a pretty crazy theory here.
this plot is much too complex
for a feeble brain muscle to flex
tim maymon is not
a flying astronaut
just an ass in a technicolor vest
Quote from: Ners on December 17, 2009, 09:59:54 PM
This seems to be the conspiracy theory of conspiracy theories!! Let me decode - Buzz raves about kid (Maymon) as unselfish. Family (Maymon Family) brings along stud friend (Vander Blue). Kid (Maymon) earns more PT. Dad (Tim Maymon) cheering wildly for MU in hometown (Madison). Kid (Maymon) does well in school. Team thinks friend (Vander Blue) happy. Family (Maymon) meets with Admin. Coach and team unaware. Kid (Maymon) transfers at most inopportune time. From here...I have no idea what or how the above conspiracy theory ties into MU now having two open scholarships for 2010? It's not like we can recruit someone to come in and play the first part of 2010 to replace Maymon? Buzz still had an open scholarship for 2010 without Maymon leaving..that he could have filled with a Wilson or other transfer? Not like he wasn't trying to fill that last scholarship with Tarik Black. What do the Maymon's get out of this, if this "Sudoko" theory were true.
Sorry Dr. Blackheart- don't know you..but you really seem to be floating a pretty crazy theory here.
OK--I'll bring out the picture puzzle. The kid wants PT at the 2/3. MU recruits over him there. So, he wants PT at the 4. Buzz to recruit over him there with his open scholie (now 2). A seemingly happy kid, playing out of position at the 5 for what he thought was one year, hears of Buzz recruiting a 4. Kid turns unhappy quickly and wants out. Let's see if/who Buzz signs in the next few weeks. Then you can call me crazy if you want.
You're also saying we may a visitor for this weekend's game, who currently attends a D-1 in northern Florida?
Quote from: Boone on December 17, 2009, 11:33:44 PM
You're also saying we may a visitor for this weekend's game, who currently attends a D-1 in northern Florida?
Hmmm. Somebody like Chris Singleton from FSU would be nice. I just don't see it happening though.
So far from what I have seen, Buzz is not willing to just get a warm body to fill the open schollie. He wants "high major" (as he always says) talent. I am not sure he can pull that off a mid-season. Let's see.
C'mon guys...
Jeronne Maymon quits mid-year. He's a bad guy who quits on his team. No way anyone would want him.
Jamil Wilson quits mid-year. LET'S GET HIM!!!!
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 18, 2009, 08:46:56 AM
C'mon guys...
Jeronne Maymon quits mid-year. He's a bad guy who quits on his team. No way anyone would want him.
Jamil Wilson quits mid-year. LET'S GET HIM!!!!
Completely different situations. Jamil traveled across the country and could very well be homesick. He lost his mom a couple years ago, and might want to be closer to his dad. I can't blame him for that.
To compare it to Maymon is ridiculous.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 18, 2009, 08:56:21 AM
Completely different situations. Jamil traveled across the country and could very well be homesick. He lost his mom a couple years ago, and might want to be closer to his dad. I can't blame him for that.
To compare it to Maymon is ridiculous.
I always love the positive spin. Jamil's quitting on his team is excusable huh?
As we say in the burbs, "items occur."
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 18, 2009, 09:00:18 AM
I always love the positive spin. Jamil's quitting on his team is excusable huh?
I agree with you, but to play devil's advocate:
Jamil would be quitting Oregon to come play at Marquette. A better school and a better basketball program.
If Jeronne were quitting to go play for Tennessee it would sting more for us, but at least you could kinda understand the thought process.
It's very different quitting school mid-year with a plan in mind than quitting mid-year with no plan.
The Wilson option seems to be a moot point, from what the Dr. is posting.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 18, 2009, 08:46:56 AM
C'mon guys...
Jeronne Maymon quits mid-year. He's a bad guy who quits on his team. No way anyone would want him.
Jamil Wilson quits mid-year. LET'S GET HIM!!!!
Bingo.
Also, the kid from UCLA who quit a few weeks back... some people here were all over him.
I'm disappointed that Maymon quit, but realistically, it's just basketball, and he and his family decided they would be happier going someplace else.
No big deal.
A visitor for the North Florida game or from North Florida? Or both?
I'm just saying there are different circumstances at play with Wilson than either Gordon or Maymon.
Those two are basketball related. Wilson, if he were to leave, would almost certainly not be.
Quote from: 2002mualum on December 18, 2009, 09:49:03 AM
Bingo.
Also, the kid from UCLA who quit a few weeks back... some people here were all over him.
I'm disappointed that Maymon quit, but realistically, it's just basketball, and he and his family decided they would be happier going someplace else.
No big deal.
Exactly, all about PT and the right situations. Situations change on a dime. A matter of supply and demand.
Not trying to be cryptic here, but recruiting is a fluid situation. Use the facts, the timing and your noggin. Fact: Buzz has said he is on a mid-year. Timing: The semesters are over. Fact: Transfers have to declare with the NCAA (see the list). Timing: Potential recruits visit during games, starting with our next one since semesters are over and kids declare. Fact: We have a dire need for a PF that just got worse.
Noggin: JUCO's who are qualified who fit the need, Buzz & Crew's network, whispers, past relationships, inference (like Gordon has opened up his recruitment a little wider, Kent is on the hotspot), teams who do and don't have open scholies. You start to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Watch the stands and the wire. Buzz is stealthy.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 18, 2009, 11:58:57 AM
Exactly, all about PT and the right situations. Situations change on a dime. A matter of supply and demand.
Not trying to be cryptic here, but recruiting is a fluid situation. Use the facts, the timing and your noggin. Fact: Buzz has said he is on a mid-year. Timing: The semesters are over. Fact: Transfers have to declare with the NCAA (see the list). Timing: Potential recruits visit during games, starting with our next one since semesters are over and kids declare. Fact: We have a dire need for a PF that just got worse.
Noggin: JUCO's who are qualified who fit the need, Buzz & Crew's network, whispers, past relationships, inference (like Gordon has opened up his recruitment a little wider, Kent is on the hotspot), teams who do and don't have open scholies. You start to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Watch the stands and the wire. Buzz is stealthy.
As a former homicide investigator, I am liking this. It's like 48 hours mystery, The First 48 and The Wire combined.
Quick, someone get a surveillance squad ready for the game.
OK, I'll play...probably wishful thinking but I'll say Oregon's Michael Dunigan (even though he hasn't announced yet). No guess for the JC guy.
How about Sam Dower? I seem to recall that he visited us, and we were on his short list. At this point, he has yet to play a minute for the Zags. I wonder if that would mean he'd still have all 4 full years of eligibility remaining?
Quote from: Skatastrophy on December 18, 2009, 09:13:14 AM
Jamil would be quitting Oregon to come play at Marquette. A better school
What makes you say this? Oregon is a fine school.