One loss, guys. Yeah, we should have won. Make free throws and don't turn the ball over down the stretch and we win. Not exactly a revelation. And this loss didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. We are small and not very deep. 6-1 is not just our average size but the best record that most of us predicted by now. We need Fulce, JMay and Ewill to contribute. Again, not exactly a eureka moment. This team is better than many expected, will play exciting basketball, will surprise us with some of their wins and stun us with some of our losses. Exactly what most predicted. Step back off of the ledges.
Couldn't have said it better myself. We should be happy that we beat two good teams in Xavier and Michigan. I expect our team to go through stretches such as the 2nd half against Florida State as we are young. Generally teams learn alot more from losses than wins.
Not saying I want us to lose, but hopefully we take something from the loss to FSU.
Yep, I agree. I think the thing that stings so much is HOW we lost. 17 point lead. Missing free throws. Losing a game that looked salted away.
Once you get past that, a 6-1 record is probably 1-2 wins above prior expectations, and the future looks much better than it did 5 days ago, which is great news.
I figured us to be borderline NIT at best, so I really like what I've seen so far, but of course it's hugely disappointing to lose a game you could have/should have had, and this is as good a place to vent as there is.
Plus, if we have NCAA aspirations, we need every game we can get. Finally, when you lose by one, there are so many things that could have changed things, so it's easy to find issues that if they were addressed would have changed things.
Who here had them below 5-2 at this point though?
The lowest expectation I saw was 1-2 this weekend, and I'm pretty sure no one picked them to lose any of the first four games. So they're a game head of the lowest expectation.
Hilltopper is right though... the way they pissed the game away is what stings about this.
I too feel pretty good with where we are so far... although I feel as though I may be partly responsible for this loss. I've had the pleasure of watching MU's games so far and have been extremely impressed (and surprised) with our team's poise and ball movement (among other things). Coming into this tournament I expected there was going to be a lot of forced shots in an effort for the new (and old) guys to establish a pecking order (in the first nationally televised game)... so far, I couldn't be more wrong. We're picking our spots wisely and limiting turnovers. So much so, that halfway through the 2nd half, I told my brother: "Wow! This team doesn't know that they're not supposed to be a top 20 team! When are these guys going to start showing their inexperience?" Obviously the basketball gods were listening as MU couldn't put anything together until the last 2 minutes. I should have kept my mouth closed! Jinxed!
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 30, 2009, 11:08:17 AM
Who here had them below 5-2 at this point though?
The lowest expectation I saw was 1-2 this weekend, and I'm pretty sure no one picked them to lose any of the first four games. So they're a game head of the lowest expectation.
Several of us thought they might go 0-3 in Orlando if the final game was played against someone other than Iona.
My initial impressions.
1) This team has no margin for error. It needs to properly execute all of its favorable aspects of the game all the time against good teams. It cannot overcome a bad game in any of its areas of strength and expect to win. Unfortunately, inexperienced teams (in terms of playing together) have more of these games than ones where they hit on all cylinders.
2) This team has the ability to score and to defend at a high level when everything is firing on all cylinders. It is capable of beating most teams in the country on any given night when this happens.
3) Any contributions by Acker/Cubi are a bonus and should not be counted upon regularly. When they are producing MU is very tough to beat because it forces other teams to play honest defense against MU playmakers. Hayward is the only player on the team that can score when double-teamed.
4) A team hot from the arc will torch this team by 30 or more.
5) Like any good (not great) team, it does very well against most teams when it sets the tempo/style of the game. MU will not play well when forced to play the other team's style/tempo.
6) This team is very fun to watch and when they get the paint-touch passes and ball rotation going to open up lanes and shots it is a thing of basketball beauty.
6-1 is a great start. Everyone is happy. Losing a 17-point lead is not good. That's why most people are bringing up discussion points.
Next week is going to be real tough. I'd expect them to come out slow against NC State with the week off and the FSU collapse. They have to make sure it only lasts early and shake it off. UWM is a no-win game and then they travel for their first road game of the year.
If we see some of the same issues (fatigue; height; running a break without grabbing the rebound; shots within five seconds of shot clock starting; etc.) discussion will be much more heated then today.
No one is out on the ledge. And it is perfectly acceptable to discuss the causes of a letdown like this when there are still 4 days until the next game. I think the causes have been pretty well hashed out at this point, but that's no reason to stop talking about the FSU game totally.
And +1 to me.
Beating X and Mich and playing in the championship is perceived better than losing to X, beating Creighton, and then possibly beating Baylor. I think our start is perceived as better even though many expected at least 5 wins by now.
We have to prove ourselves that we can beat an ACC team for Big East pride this week against NC State after losing an effective road game to FSU by only 1. Then, 10 conferences wins (beat DePaul and Prov 2x each and squeak out 6 more) gets us in the NCAA IMO.
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 30, 2009, 11:53:47 AM
4) A team hot from the arc will torch this team by 30 or more.
I agree with everything you said pretty much, except I think you need to qualify number 4. It is true that if a team goes off from 3 land against this team we are in trouble. However, Xavier, Michigan, and FSU all were high % 3pt teams going into the game with MU. Why didn't they do well from beyond the arc? I would suggest that MU's perimeter D didn't allow their shooters time to set up and thus their shots were contested. MU's 3pt shooting was bad against FSU for the same reason, FSU's defense was contesting our shooters.
So I would say that if we continue to execute on defense (particularly perimeter D) 3pt shooting teams won't be too much of a problem. I am just reinforcing your points 1 and 2.
QuoteSo I would say that if we continue to execute on defense (particularly perimeter D) 3pt shooting teams won't be too much of a problem.
One of the problems with our perimeter defense though is something we can't change and that is height. Florida State attempted to use that to their advantage shooting over Cubs and Acker but neither team shot well.
We will have trouble against guards that are 6'-2" and taller that can shoot the rock such as an A.J. Price last year when DJ got hurt and Acker had to guard him, he dropped 36 in our house.
Quote from: damuts222 on December 01, 2009, 11:21:15 AM
We will have trouble against guards that are 6'-2" and taller that can shoot the rock such as an A.J. Price last year when DJ got hurt and Acker had to guard him, he dropped 36 in our house.
McNeal guarded AJ Price after DJ went down, not Acker.
If Acker and Culliban were freshmen they would be a disaster on D. What everyone seems to forget is that they have been guarding in practice the big three the last three years. They are better on defense than some of you want to give them credit for. Remember most guards are in trouble, if they are posted up down low by a bigman.
Like we have all said, this is a very young team. I expect them to win some games that I didn't think they could win in the Big East, and they might even lose some games they shouldn't lose. It always happens that way with a young team that doesn't know any better
It was a disappointing loss but overall I am very pleased with the team so far. They are young and have a lot to work on but they are definetely a team that plays hard and doesn't give up. Hopefully in the upcoming games, they will have a better free throw percentage to ensure a win in close games.
Quote from: bilsu on December 01, 2009, 11:55:12 AM
If Acker and Culliban were freshmen they would be a disaster on D. What everyone seems to forget is that they have been guarding in practice the big three the last three years. They are better on defense than some of you want to give them credit for. Remember most guards are in trouble, if they are posted up down low by a bigman.
They're smurfs, and there is obviously nothing that can be done about that.
No question, they have exceeded expectations.
It's not that they lost, it's how they lost.