After the Stanford game I wrote the IU President a blazing letter of recommendation for Tom Crean in hopes they would take him off our hands. As luck would have it my wishes were granted and I could not be happier with our huge upgrade in Buzz Williams (I'm obviously being sarcastic so don't jump on me for this line).
Stanford had two NBA 7 footers and a below average supporting cast. So of course a coach of average intelligence would play a 2-3 zone and double the two 7 footers and make their below average perimeter players beat us. Nope....instead the two Lopez twins had a field day posting up and getting high percentage shots (if not flat out layups) posting up one on one against our lack of size (Dwight Burke did the best he could but was outmatched). We even lucked out with their head coach getting ejected in the 1st half and we end up losing and getting out-coached to the team's assistant coach. Finally our execution down the stretch of that game was horrible where we had the ball and a two point lead with less than two minutes and found a way to lose.....granted this goes on the players as well as we did the same thing last year against Missouri.
Tom Crean did some good things but he was not the sharpest tool in the shed. His recruiting would dazzle you for awhile then later you'd end up scratching your head why he would take an athletic team in years 3-5 and then slowly turn the team back into a lumbering un-athletic team until he reversed that trend with his job saving signing of the three amigos. Part of the real ugly years during seasons 5 & 6 when our defense stunk and our offense was solely reliant on Diener and Novak was due to so many recruiting mistakes and transfers ...this goes mostly on the coach.
In addition as someone else pointed out he would coach not to lose at the end of the games instead of coaching to win. The elite 8 Pittsburgh game comes to mind when a 12 point lead became a tie within minutes as our defensive strategy became porous and timid and Pitt started penetrating and getting layups.
Some of his worst coaching performances were Kansas and Michigan State as well as Stanford. To his credit the Kentucky game was a work of art as we beat them so soundly with so many different offensive weapons....credit to him for building the team to that point. Unfortunately after this game it was downhill as he started think he could win with whoever he recruited as he started to believe his own press that he was an elite coach as for some reason he became a darling of the media.
I could write forever on his flaws but the bottom line was he was overrated and overpaid and for IU to give him a raise and a 10 year contract is a joke of near ND proportions when they gave Charlie Weis a 10 year contract after a spotty first two years with two BCS blow outs.
I love Buzz Williams style, basketball IQ and think he is budding legend. Good thing MU has deep pockets when needed to pay him the $3MM per year we will have to pay him in the coming years to keep other programs from trying to raid him. If we can keep him here I expect another MU national title within the next 5 year. Some people think he is too tough on the players but all good coaches have a little tyrant in them. Pat Kennedy of DePaul recruited 5 star players with the promise to their high school coaches he wouldn't be too tough on them....this lack of tough love made his teams perennial underperformers as his "stars" ended up having horrible college careers and then rebounded in the NBA once they had good coaching again. I like that Buzz is both a recruiter and a hard- nosed coach that really pushes the players...great years are ahead of us.
You do realize the Buzz scouted the Kentucky game that year and we barely won. You also realize that at the end of the year Stanford beat UCLA once and lost to them in OT in the last 10 days of the sesson...a UCLA team that went to the Final Four.
So far, Buzz is doing a nice job. But as I've been reminded by so many on this board, it doesn't matter what you do except for the tournament (note, that's not my position)...so we'll see how things go in the next few years.
Hopefully really good...all MU fans would be happy if that were the case.
But it sure does seem funny how much people fall in love with coaches in their first few years.
Sherman
McCarthy
Crean
Buzz
Jeter
Etc, etc
Crean did good things for us. Buzz seems to have a much higher ceiling. I woudnt trade one Buzz for two Creans. Let's see how it plays out. Buzz did say he would be at MU "as long as they will have me". That is more commitment then we've gotten out of a coach since the 80's. He seems to be a straight forward guy. Crean did good, I think Buzz will do better. Time will tell.
While I've never had any personal dealings with Tom Crean, and I've read here some people who have thought he evloved into an ass - I do think it is time for people to get off the Tom Crean Hate Wagon. Stating the obvious, but the Tom Crean era really turned the image and perception of Marquette Basketball around. The Al MacGuire center became a reality - a much needed facility/tool needed for training and recruiting. Crean brought Buzz Williams on staff, and left behind a great situation for Buzz. Buzz is taking the torch and running with it, and all signs indicate he could take the program to a level not seen since Al. I just wish more MU fans would show some gratitude to Tom Crean. Some posters here come off as bitter, even whiney girl types. Who cares is Tom Crean used a tanning bed or not?? Really people. Stop dissecting the guy and be grateful for what he did for our program. Time to get over it.
I just haven't formed an opinion about this Crean guy you speak of, just yet.
well put NERS. no bother even thinking about him, no matter what your feelings.
I hope Buzz works out...so far, so good. All I know is that, for all his quirks, he's about a thousand times more likable than the last guy.
Crediting Crean for building the Al McGuire Center is like crediting Joe McCarthy for the construction of the original Yankee Stadium....The Al McGuire Center is the "House that Wade Built" by carrying us to the Final Four. If you think people gave money to construct that thing as a tribute to a coach completely devoid of charisma or character, you're out of your mind.
Also, this "get over it" mentality makes me puke. Get over what? The fact that the guy is a jerkoff and many of us couldn't stand him? Several of us have been pointing out what a douche bag that guy is for many years. Now we've been proven 100 percent correct.
PS: I love Ners comment that it's OK for Crean to use a tanning bed and those of us who mention it are the girls. What's wrong with this picture?
Agree - MU is much better off with Buzz. Forget about Tom Crean. However, I do enjoy his challenges at IU.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on November 21, 2009, 03:20:59 PM
I hope Buzz works out...so far, so good. All I know is that, for all his quirks, he's about a thousand times more likable than the last guy.
Crediting Crean for building the Al McGuire Center is like crediting Joe McCarthy for the construction of the original Yankee Stadium....The Al McGuire Center is the "House that Wade Built" by carrying us to the Final Four. If you think people gave money to construct that thing as a tribute to a coach completely devoid of charisma or character, you're out of your mind.
Also, this "get over it" mentality makes me puke. Get over what? The fact that the guy is a jerkoff and many of us couldn't stand him? Several of us have been pointing out what a douche bag that guy is for many years. Now we've been proven 100 percent correct.
PS: I love Ners comment that it's OK for Crean to use a tanning bed and those of us who mention it are the girls. What's wrong with this picture?
Not only did tom Crean personally get the Al built he also personally got us into the Big East.
Wow the Crean apologists give Crean credit for everything!! Was Crean our coach when communism fell?
- sarcasm off
Al Mcguire deserves more credit for the Al and the BE than that clown Crean deserves, Kevin Oneill and Cords deserve more credit too!
Funny how as time goes by the people that were duped into buying waht Cream was selling slowly begin to realize how stupid they were.
I just wish more MU fans would show some gratitude to Tom Crean.
[/quote]
Great idea! I going to send him a thank you card for leaving MU.
I am very happy with Buzz. But there is no way we are going to win a national title in 5 years. Our talent is good, but no where near North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on November 21, 2009, 03:20:59 PM
I hope Buzz works out...so far, so good. All I know is that, for all his quirks, he's about a thousand times more likable than the last guy.
Crediting Crean for building the Al McGuire Center is like crediting Joe McCarthy for the construction of the original Yankee Stadium....The Al McGuire Center is the "House that Wade Built" by carrying us to the Final Four. If you think people gave money to construct that thing as a tribute to a coach completely devoid of charisma or character, you're out of your mind.
Also, this "get over it" mentality makes me puke. Get over what? The fact that the guy is a jerkoff and many of us couldn't stand him? Several of us have been pointing out what a douche bag that guy is for many years. Now we've been proven 100 percent correct.
PS: I love Ners comment that it's OK for Crean to use a tanning bed and those of us who mention it are the girls. What's wrong with this picture?
PRN - I don't have a problem with a dude using a tanning bed if he wants to - point is who cares?? What did Tom Crean do to you personally for you to have a can't stand him mentality? Obviously D-Wade had a lot to do with MU's resurgence - who would deny that? It is also true that D-Wade has a lot of respect for Tom Crean. Where this program was when Crean took over from Mike Deane (not Kevin O'Neill) - was in shambles. Mike Deane (whom Bill Cords hired) said MU couldn't ever be a top echelon program. Keep in mind, Steve Cottingham is the one who hired Buzz - and I recall all kinds of people dissing Cottingham - at least on the JS ONline. Now you and others here LOVE Buzz..but there were many skeptics when he was hired. I get the feeling that if Buzz were to leave MU, it wouldn't take you or the other anti-Crean faction..to start talking about what a D-Bag Buzz was. Have some gratitude - and yeah, Get Over it - now go grab your barf bag and puke your guts out.
Quote from: bilsu on November 21, 2009, 04:16:44 PM
I am very happy with Buzz. But there is no way we are going to win a national title in 5 years. Our talent is good, but no where near North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas.
+1. I think a lot of people are getting way too excited based on recruiting rankings alone. More often than not people get overly excited about the best case scenario, and even when the recruit isn't that highly ranked people spin it into something great. Though from taking references that others have made upon a player committing I think we will win it all as our roster in two years will consist of Levance Fields, two Dwayne Wades, Hasheem Thabeet, John Wall, and a return of the Three Amigos, likely only earning limited minutes coming off the bench.
Well IU gave Boston U it's first win of the season after Boston U. had fallen to Iona, George Washington and Kansas State. IU gave up 42 points in the second half to blow a 5 point halftime lead. I didn't see the game, but that looks like one coach making a much better halftime adjustment than the other.
My question is how long does TC last at IU. I have a feeling it's going to be a Charlie Wiess type of situation in the next 2-4 years??? The Big 10 seems to be improving, which will make things even harder for TC.
Quote from: bilsu on November 21, 2009, 04:16:44 PM
I am very happy with Buzz. But there is no way we are going to win a national title in 5 years. Our talent is good, but no where near North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas.
Exactly. Buzz will keep us competitive but without some legitimate size we will continue to struggle in the post season.
Why would anyone say there is no way we'll win a national title within 5 years. Anything is possible and with back to back top 20 classes it's more than just a pipedream. In addition we're top 10 in attendance, in the best if not one of the best conferences, have top ten facilities and we've done it before in 1977 when Kansas, NC and other teams were awfully good then too.
Get rid of the "I won't get my hopes up so I don't get hurt" reflex and let's keep supporting the program and pushing them to this ultimate goal.
I've heard Coach Collins say he went from Fairfield to MU and the mentality here is trying to win national championships....thank God none of you guys are on the coaching staff to tell kids not to get their hopes up.
Why is it every thread on this site starts or ends with a Crean pissing contest?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 21, 2009, 02:06:17 PM
You do realize the Buzz acouted the Kentucky game that year and we barely won. You also realize that at the end of the year Stanford beat UCLA once and lost to them in OT in the last 10 days of the sesson...a UCLA team that went to the Final Four.
So far, Buzz is doing a nice job. But as I've been reminded by so many on this board, it doesn't matter what you do except for the tournament (note, that's not my position)...so we'll see how things go in the next few years.
Hopefully really good...all MU fans would be happy if that were the case.
But it sure does seem funny how much people fall in love with coaches in their first few years.
Sherman
McCarthy
Crean
Buzz
Jeter
Etc, etc
You're a douche. sorry, plain and simple. You have Crean's back again. No one forgets what he did for MU, but they do remember the way he treated MU. We were his stepping stone after his first year, and we all knew it. Buzz on the other hand could be a lifer type of guy. He just seems to have his head on straight.
As for the other coaches listed. I never really cared for a single one of them, and I was upset with Sherman and McCarthy. Crean was there when I started school, but he wore out his welcome very quickly. I have no opinion on Jeter, because frankly, I don't know the reference.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 21, 2009, 05:53:43 PM
You're a douche. sorry, plain and simple. You have Crean's back again. No one forgets what he did for MU, but they do remember the way he treated MU. We were his stepping stone after his first year, and we all knew it. Buzz on the other hand could be a lifer type of guy. He just seems to have his head on straight.
As for the other coaches listed. I never really cared for a single one of them, and I was upset with Sherman and McCarthy. Crean was there when I started school, but he wore out his welcome very quickly. I have no opinion on Jeter, because frankly, I don't know the reference.
Crawl back out of the rabbit hole, Alice. Buzz very well may have major success in Milwaukee but this ain't his last coaching gig.
maybe, maybe not. I think he understands that we gave him a shot where few others would have (considering the UNO situation).
The only place I can see Buzz scurrying off to would be Texas... as in University of Texas...
MU has deeper coffers than most for keeping coaches around.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 21, 2009, 05:53:43 PM
You're a douche. sorry, plain and simple. You have Crean's back again. No one forgets what he did for MU, but they do remember the way he treated MU. We were his stepping stone after his first year, and we all knew it. Buzz on the other hand could be a lifer type of guy. He just seems to have his head on straight.
As for the other coaches listed. I never really cared for a single one of them, and I was upset with Sherman and McCarthy. Crean was there when I started school, but he wore out his welcome very quickly. I have no opinion on Jeter, because frankly, I don't know the reference.
I totally understand how he left...it sucked balls. But thanks for the douche reference, very classy.
How you can say Buzz is a lifer is beyond me. Since you went classy, I'll go classy....you seem to be giving the guy felacio on the second date. No way in hell Buzz is a lifer, you don't even know if he'll be here in a few years, let alone life.
And wrong, MANY people have forgotten what Crean did for MU. MANY on this very board. Many just today, so don't tell me NOBODY...that's just complete B.S.
Crean is an ahole, he's gone, but he did good things. Buzz seems like a nice guy (though there are some out there that have called him an a-hole already also) so who really knows. Very few coaches in my years in the business have not been difficult, ego driven, etc, etc....we'll see if he is the exception to the rule.
The references I gave were valid.
Look at message boards like this one and comments about Mike Sherman early on. McCarthy early on. Rob Jeter early on. Tom Crean early on. People fall in love with coaches in the first few years, it's called the honeymoon period. It eventually goes away as expectations get higher and higher and higher.
That's reality.
I do love the comment about you thinking MU has larger coffers....so what. How did those coffers work at getting a top flight coach interested in coming to MU after Crean? LOL
How did it work in keeping Crean?
Come on, MU is a good job, but there are many jobs better and folks will leave in a heartbeat if the right job opens up because the dollars will flow from those schools too. You're too in love, the BJ was extra special apparently with some of your comments (sorry, I don't like stooping to your level but since you fired off the douche statement, I'm more than willing to play your game).
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 21, 2009, 05:53:43 PM
You're a douche. sorry, plain and simple. You have Crean's back again. No one forgets what he did for MU, but they do remember the way he treated MU. We were his stepping stone after his first year, and we all knew it. Buzz on the other hand could be a lifer type of guy. He just seems to have his head on straight.
As for the other coaches listed. I never really cared for a single one of them, and I was upset with Sherman and McCarthy. Crean was there when I started school, but he wore out his welcome very quickly. I have no opinion on Jeter, because frankly, I don't know the reference.
I'm not as much of a "fan" of Crean as Chicos, but this is truly stupid. He's been overly patient dealing with the "Crean is Satan, Buzz is God" people. (And I'm a guy who believes Crean may be a distant cousin of Lex Luther.) It depresses me that elements of our fan base are this one dimensional.
Quote from: warrior07 on November 21, 2009, 08:47:22 PM
I'm not as much of a "fan" of Crean as Chicos, but this is truly stupid. He's been overly patient dealing with the "Crean is Satan, Buzz is God" people. (And I'm a guy who believes Crean may be a distant cousin of Lex Luther.) It depresses me that elements of our fan base are this one dimensional.
Thanks, and that's really my point...people are just silly and stupid on this stuff.
I disagree that I'm a "fan" of Crean's...I really do. I simply don't accept the stupidity that some state or the simple changing of facts while he was here. I'm probably the ONLY person on this board that actually had to work with the guy and spent hours with him and his staff. Most of the comments here are from someone that heard something about somebody, somewhere, blah blah blah. No doubt, he was tough to work for, even beyond tough in some cases. But he also got us from totally irrelevant to a Final Four again and you would think from some comments here that anyone could have done that. LOL.
Fact is, he was the 2nd best coach (based on results) at MU in our history. That's just fact. I applaud him for those efforts but he moved on. I hope and pray Buzz will do the same thing, that would be AWESOME on every level. But when I hear people say this guy is already better, already this, already that, good God it just ignores reality.
Those statements can be made years later, not now.
Look at the slobber jobs here and on the scout board by the Notre Dame football homers at MU (yes, those people exist) that went pole washing with Charlie Weiss the first few years....now that the honeymoon is over there, they can't be found.
People love the honeymoon period....the sex is great...she digs you no matter what you do...her farts are cute...etc, etc. But time changes everything, if you're lucky your spouse is a great person and you move into the next stage. Same with coaches, the relationship changes. The expectations change....and as illustrated on this board, reality changes as does history...facts be damned.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 21, 2009, 09:07:54 PM
Thanks, and that's really my point...people are just silly and stupid on this stuff.
I disagree that I'm a "fan" of Crean's...I really do. I simply don't accept the stupidity that some state or the simple changing of facts while he was here. I'm probably the ONLY person on this board that actually had to work with the guy and spent hours with him and his staff. Most of the comments here are from someone that heard something about somebody, somewhere, blah blah blah. No doubt, he was tough to work for, even beyond tough in some cases. But he also got us from totally irrelevant to a Final Four again and you would think from some comments here that anyone could have done that. LOL.
Fact is, he was the 2nd best coach (based on results) at MU in our history. That's just fact. I applaud him for those efforts but he moved on. I hope and pray Buzz will do the same thing, that would be AWESOME on every level. But when I hear people say this guy is already better, already this, already that, good God it just ignores reality.
Those statements can be made years later, not now.
Look at the slobber jobs here and on the scout board by the Notre Dame football homers at MU (yes, those people exist) that went pole washing with Charlie Weiss the first few years....now that the honeymoon is over there, they can't be found.
People love the honeymoon period....the sex is great...she digs you no matter what you do...her farts are cute...etc, etc. But time changes everything, if you're lucky your spouse is a great person and you move into the next stage. Same with coaches, the relationship changes. The expectations change....and as illustrated on this board, reality changes as does history...facts be damned.
actually, I worked in the athletic office my freshman year with Cords, two of the blue and gold fund guys (their names escape me at the moment... Al and Brian, IIRC), so your point there is really not on point. Additionally, I waited on him while he had a membership at Mequon CC, and you guessed it, he was a huge douche there. He showed up in shorts and a windbreaker to DINNER with his family and was a complete dick to all of them. Including his father-in-law and Joanie, and his two children. In fact, that was the day he lost my respect completely. But the details, I'll keep them to myself.
Chicos, my problem with you is while you claim to think Crean is an AHole you are the first to come running to his defense. You step up when anyone makes a disparaging remark about him and that is why you get labeled the way you do. I understand what he did, and I am happy with most of it. But NEVER for a second did I think he was loyal.
You don't need to defend him. If people can't see that he was a mostly positive impact on the university, they are kidding themselves. But the problem that most people have with him is that it really was all about him. He called attention to himself anytime he could. It just IS who Tom Crean is.
While you may call this a "honeymoon" period with Buzz, I just don't see it that way. He seems to be completely honest TO A FAULT (as many would say). And I know this may be a show, but this is why I give him the benefit of the doubt, and why I trust him. I apologize for the douche comment, but its just how I'd describe you in one word. I couldn't think of anything at the time, and its just what came to mind.
Tom doesn't need someone on these boards to sit here and defend his BS... so why do you constantly do it?
I waited on him while he had a membership at Mequon CC, and you guessed it, he was a huge douche there. He showed up in shorts and a windbreaker to DINNER with his family and was a complete dick to all of them. Including his father-in-law and Joanie, and his two children. In fact, that was the day he lost my respect completely. But the details, I'll keep them to myself.
Did you have to pump his stomach after the dinner? The food absolutely sucks sewer water there. And, why not enlighten the rest of us with the details. I'm sure it won't shock most. BTW, did he ever leave the waitstaff any additional gratuity? Ah, I probably know the answer to that.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 21, 2009, 09:29:06 PM
actually, I worked in the athletic office my freshman year with Cords, two of the blue and gold fund guys (their names escape me at the moment... Al and Brian, IIRC), so your point there is really not on point. Additionally, I waited on him while he had a membership at Mequon CC, and you guessed it, he was a huge douche there. He showed up in shorts and a windbreaker to DINNER with his family and was a complete dick to all of them. Including his father-in-law and Joanie, and his two children. In fact, that was the day he lost my respect completely. But the details, I'll keep them to myself.
Chicos, my problem with you is while you claim to think Crean is an AHole you are the first to come running to his defense. You step up when anyone makes a disparaging remark about him and that is why you get labeled the way you do. I understand what he did, and I am happy with most of it. But NEVER for a second did I think he was loyal.
You don't need to defend him. If people can't see that he was a mostly positive impact on the university, they are kidding themselves. But the problem that most people have with him is that it really was all about him. He called attention to himself anytime he could. It just IS who Tom Crean is.
While you may call this a "honeymoon" period with Buzz, I just don't see it that way. He seems to be completely honest TO A FAULT (as many would say). And I know this may be a show, but this is why I give him the benefit of the doubt, and why I trust him. I apologize for the douche comment, but its just how I'd describe you in one word. I couldn't think of anything at the time, and its just what came to mind.
Tom doesn't need someone on these boards to sit here and defend his BS... so why do you constantly do it?
Hards, I don't disagree that he was a douche...but when people say here he couldn't coach, couldn't recruit, couldn't this, couldn't that....it defies reality. That's all.
Show me where I defend Tom Crean the PERSON? I don't....I simply set the record straight on the reality...he was the 2nd best coach at MU in our history. Those are facts, pretty simple. Now maybe Buzz will end up being the 2nd best or even the best in MU history, and I'll defend his record as well from any clowns saying to the contrary.
I don't defend Tom Crean the person, but I don't accept stupidity from posters that like to restate history either. There is a difference.
And as I stated earlier, there are some saying that Buzz is a complete dick and pretty boy in real life as well....we'll see if that's true or just sour grapes, but that's come up now on at least three boards. The newsflash is that most of these coaches are not the nicest people in the world....Mike Sciosia is the one exception as the head man in all my years (and John Wooden, but I never worked with him) in the industry. Lots of assistant coaches are great, but when you become the head man, it changes people, it really does.
Can we stop the personal name calling, or is that silliness going to continue from you? And I didn't realize working in the B&G office as a Freshman was working for Tom Crean, but maybe it was. Things have changed over the years so maybe that was happening, I don't know.
Quote from: bilsu on November 21, 2009, 04:16:44 PM
I am very happy with Buzz. But there is no way we are going to win a national title in 5 years. Our talent is good, but no where near North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas.
That is is subjective - top 100 vs. Top 25 talent. Its all about chemistry and maybe a little luck. We will be there with the talent building.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 21, 2009, 02:06:17 PM
You do realize the Buzz scouted the Kentucky game that year and we barely won. You also realize that at the end of the year Stanford beat UCLA once and lost to them in OT in the last 10 days of the sesson...a UCLA team that went to the Final Four.
So far, Buzz is doing a nice job. But as I've been reminded by so many on this board, it doesn't matter what you do except for the tournament (note, that's not my position)...so we'll see how things go in the next few years.
Hopefully really good...all MU fans would be happy if that were the case.
But it sure does seem funny how much people fall in love with coaches in their first few years.
Sherman
McCarthy
Crean
Buzz
Jeter
Etc, etc
You do realize that two days after Stanford beat us they were annihilated by Texas and their quickness. They pressured Stanford's mediocre guards (TC decided not to) and ran them out of the gym.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 21, 2009, 09:48:40 PM
Did you have to pump his stomach after the dinner? The food absolutely sucks sewer water there. And, why not enlighten the rest of us with the details. I'm sure it won't shock most. BTW, did he ever leave the waitstaff any additional gratuity? Ah, I probably know the answer to that.
Tamara told me that he never tipped you guys after a bowl of Medium either.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 21, 2009, 11:35:36 PM
You do realize that two days after Stanford beat us they were annihilated by Texas and their quickness. They pressured Stanford's mediocre guards (TC decided not to) and ran them out of the gym.
Yes, I do....in the state of Texas, too, if I recall. Stanford was ranked what, 7th in the nation that year? We took them overtime and lost on a great shot at the buzzer. You guys make it sound like we were favored by 20 points or something.
Oh, and that great pressure you're talking about....Stanford had 10 turnovers against Texas....they had 8 against MU. Barely a difference. The problem was that they had too many easy baskets down low where their bigs killed our bigs.
I wonder why Ben Howland, Lute Olsen, Mike Montgomery, Herb Sendek, Tony Bennett, Tim Floyd, etc, etc didn't pressure their guards all year as well....those stupid coaches. ::)
Quote from: duanewade on November 21, 2009, 05:37:27 PM
Why would anyone say there is no way we'll win a national title within 5 years. Anything is possible and with back to back top 20 classes it's more than just a pipedream. In addition we're top 10 in attendance, in the best if not one of the best conferences, have top ten facilities and we've done it before in 1977 when Kansas, NC and other teams were awfully good then too.
Get rid of the "I won't get my hopes up so I don't get hurt" reflex and let's keep supporting the program and pushing them to this ultimate goal.
I've heard Coach Collins say he went from Fairfield to MU and the mentality here is trying to win national championships....thank God none of you guys are on the coaching staff to tell kids not to get their hopes up.
How many McDonalds all-americans do we have? I think if you look at the most recent NCAA champions they generally have three NBA first round draft choices on their teams.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 21, 2009, 02:06:17 PM
You do realize the Buzz scouted the Kentucky game that year and we barely won.
MU won by 8....probably covered the spread. Not sure how we barely won. Kentucky needed a crazy 3 pt shooting display by Crawford to stay close.
Quote from: Fullodds on November 22, 2009, 12:05:26 AM
MU won by 8....probably covered the spread. Not sure how we barely won. Kentucky needed a crazy 3 pt shooting display by Crawford to stay close.
It was a one possession game with under 24 seconds to play....maybe "barely" isn't the right word, but it was uncomfortable at the end of that game.
It was the most relaxed I've been watching MU in the dance since 2003 v. Kentucky. I still get nervous watching the 1st and 2d round games from 2003 despite knowing the outcome.
MU v. Holy Cross, Missouri (x2),
Quote from: Fullodds on November 22, 2009, 12:05:26 AM
MU won by 8....probably covered the spread. Not sure how we barely won. Kentucky needed a crazy 3 pt shooting display by Crawford to stay close.
spread was 7. jodie meeks jacks up a 3 with kentucky down 6 and wes grabs the board and gets fouled with like .4 sec.... MU wins by 8, I win by 100 :)
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 21, 2009, 09:48:40 PM
I waited on him while he had a membership at Mequon CC, and you guessed it, he was a huge douche there. He showed up in shorts and a windbreaker to DINNER with his family and was a complete dick to all of them. Including his father-in-law and Joanie, and his two children. In fact, that was the day he lost my respect completely. But the details, I'll keep them to myself.
Did you have to pump his stomach after the dinner? The food absolutely sucks sewer water there. And, why not enlighten the rest of us with the details. I'm sure it won't shock most. BTW, did he ever leave the waitstaff any additional gratuity? Ah, I probably know the answer to that.
he may not have tipped well, but he brought us JJ's when we stood in line outside the BC. Payed for it outta pocket, stand up guy
Quote from: bilsu on November 21, 2009, 04:16:44 PM
I am very happy with Buzz. But there is no way we are going to win a national title in 5 years. Our talent is good, but no where near North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas.
But our talent is not going to leave early, unlike most of the big name guys in those programs.
(And yes, I am making 2 assumptions in order to try and argue.) ;)
chicos--- are you friggin serious? ya the reason we "barely" beat Kentucky was because Buzz scouted them?!?!? are you out of your mind? get off Crean's dick for once and open up your eyes!! (if you can...) that has nothing to do with Buzz. Crean was an arrogant a-hole who never connected with his fans. he lied through his teeth and was the biggest man of speaking "coach speak." he tanned and did not drink. end of story.
Quote from: Fullodds on November 22, 2009, 01:01:50 AM
It was the most relaxed I've been watching MU in the dance since 2003 v. Kentucky. I still get nervous watching the 1st and 2d round games from 2003 despite knowing the outcome.
MU v. Holy Cross, Missouri (x2),
I'm a nervous nellie. Up by 2 points with 23 seconds left and having to inbound the ball, scary stuff. Then having to hit two free throws. I was not relaxed, especially if he misses that first free throw. Fortunately he didn't.
Shooter, you would understand why I said the thing about scouting if you've been on this board long enough. The Crean haters bashed Izzo for having Crean involved in scouting for them during their NCAA run last year. When MSU won, it was because of Izzo. When they lost in the championship, well it was because Crean was scouting. LOL. I just thought it ironic that when Buzz was scouting some of our games and we performed not to the greatest level....well you get the idea.
It's always fun to watch one set of standards for one guy and a different set for another. Makes me chuckle
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 21, 2009, 11:53:12 PM
Yes, I do....in the state of Texas, too, if I recall. Stanford was ranked what, 7th in the nation that year? We took them overtime and lost on a great shot at the buzzer. You guys make it sound like we were favored by 20 points or something.
Oh, and that great pressure you're talking about....Stanford had 10 turnovers against Texas....they had 8 against MU. Barely a difference. The problem was that they had too many easy baskets down low where their bigs killed our bigs.
I wonder why Ben Howland, Lute Olsen, Mike Montgomery, Herb Sendek, Tony Bennett, Tim Floyd, etc, etc didn't pressure their guards all year as well....those stupid coaches. ::)
You also realize that MU had the benefit of back to back tecnicals on the Stanford coach - 4 gift points and their leader thrown out of the building. Add that to Jerel having his best game ever at MU to that point and everything was pointing to an MU victory. Unfortunately, we laid off their guards and allowed them easy passes into the post and the rest is history.
190 wins. Near 100% graduation rate. Not a sniff of NCAA violations. Shepherded us into the BEast, whether he deserves credit for the move or not. First FF in 26 years.
Failed to close the deal when recruiting bigs which, IMHO, led to his second most glaring flaw, in game adjustments. Hyped the heck out of the program and himself. A whispering campaign that he treated his underlings poorly. I thank him for his service, but I think it likely that it was time for him to go, as he felt he had maxxed out at MU and the whispers were growing louder. Hopefully, Buzz does better.
Quote from: tower912 on November 22, 2009, 09:07:43 AM
A whispering campaign that he treated his underlings poorly.
Campaign? The only assistant he could keep around was Rab and he was radioactive in the coaching community! We had more than one assistant leave after a single season.
The guy is an a-hole. If we re-hired Bob Dukiet after he left it would have been an upgrade personality-wise. A huge upgrade.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on November 22, 2009, 09:16:51 AM
Campaign? The only assistant he could keep around was Rab and he was radioactive in the coaching community! We had more than one assistant leave after a single season.
The guy is an a-hole. If we re-hired Bob Dukiet after he left it would have been an upgrade personality-wise. A huge upgrade.
Didn't Buckley come back to work with Crean? Didn't Barone follow him to IU? A lot of former players have been on his staff(s) as well. Wardle, Harris, etc.
I'm not saying their aren't reasons to dislike TC, but let's keep the debate factual.
TC is tough to work for, but it's not like every single person that has ever worked with him hates him (like you make it seem).
This is very interesting discussion. Here is the fact of the matter...Crean did some good things and brought more attention to himself and the University. I think the best thing he did was to get students more involved. But the person most reponsible for MU's success is Dwyane Wade. When I think of Crean I think of all the post season losses. The losses in conference tournaments to powers like TCU, and UAB. And first round losses to Tulsa and MSU where they were lucky to score a bucket in the first half. The loss to Stanford bothers me to no end because of what DuaneWade rightly pointed out.
I also agree with Duanewade who says MU could win a national championship within 5 years. Everyone knows we are in play with some of the big recruits and have nailed a couple. I remember a few short years ago people on the MU message boards claiming that the MU would be better off playing the likes of Dayton. Well all of you do-gooders were proved wrong because you didn't think MU should set the bar so high...you will be proved wrong once again.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 22, 2009, 08:58:19 AM
You also realize that MU had the benefit of back to back tecnicals on the Stanford coach - 4 gift points and their leader thrown out of the building. Add that to Jerel having his best game ever at MU to that point and everything was pointing to an MU victory. Unfortunately, we laid off their guards and allowed them easy passes into the post and the rest is history.
Uhm, yeah....and after those two technicals....what did the referees do the remainder of the 1st half and carried it on through the second half as the home town Stanford and UCLA crowd were going ballistic at the Honda Center?
Well, let's see.....13 straight minutes, one foul called on Stanford but 9 fouls called on MU.
MU gets in massive foul trouble and you want us to get into their guards more when we had guys in foul trouble plus they were in the bonus? Smart. ::) The refs totally overreacted throwing out Johnson and then they went into major makeup mode for a good chunk of the game. Stanford took more than 2X the free throws we took and playing up on their guards even more was only going to extend that advantage further.
I forgot that we were favored to win by 20 points against #7 Stanford that game.
I don't know why some of you keep making this an either \ or situation. It is possible to appreciate what Crean did and also appreciate what Buzz is doing. I sure do. For some of you, it appears you must hate Crean in order to like Buzz. I don't get it. Why can't both be appreciated?
Even I could see 20/20 from my barcalounger 2000 miles away that we needed to not let Stanford post up under the basket. How many identical shots from about three feet away did he take at the end of the game? All we had to do was beat the guy to the spot and have him take a differant look. Coaching error ALL THE WAY. No adjustment was made.
Quote from: elephantraker on November 23, 2009, 04:56:32 PM
Even I could see 20/20 from my barcalounger 2000 miles away that we needed to not let Stanford post up under the basket. How many identical shots from about three feet away did he take at the end of the game? All we had to do was beat the guy to the spot and have him take a differant look. Coaching error ALL THE WAY. No adjustment was made.
LOL....and you don't think Crean and Buzz didn't know that too? Please. You may have noticed what happened to our bigs in that game as they basically fouled out or had 4 fouls. We were handcuffed in a huge way. Buzz will tell you the same thing. When we doubled, they would pass out. When we didn't, we got killed for 2 points or the foul.
Incidentally, they jumped out to a 9-0 or 11-2 lead, can't remember, by going into the post each time. Crean called a timeout, we did make some adjustments, and we caught up and took the lead.
Again, damn that Howland, Bennett, Floyd, Montgomery, etc, etc....those stupid coaches for letting the Stanford twin towers go off on them, too.....didn't they know how easy it was to just beat them to the spot and have them take a different look? LOL