Anyone getting them? How about for your kids?
I am in non-risk group (29 year old), so I guess I am supposed to wait awhile for women, kids, and the elderly. But hell yeah, I want to get one. But I do work in a public high school, so most likely gonna get one. I love medicine.
Quote from: reinko on October 14, 2009, 09:19:42 PM
I am in non-risk group (29 year old), so I guess I am supposed to wait awhile for women, kids, and the elderly. But hell yeah, I want to get one. But I do work in a public high school, so most likely gonna get one. I love medicine.
I currently have the best vaccination there is, and that's immunity. Unfortunately it came at the price of having to suffer through the swine flu for three days and spend another four feeling just fine quarantined in my living room.
My advice? If you start feeling the symptoms (body aches, chills, fever, coughing, sore throat), get in QUICK, get on tamiflu and stay away from everyone. That stuff will knock down the severity of the virus quickly. The accompanying quarantine is a pain, however.
I'm getting the Hamthrax vaccination, having 2 kids in daycare will make me almost start using Listerine everyday.
I plan on getting them for myself as a healthcare provider and for all three of my kids. The vaccine is made the exact same way as a traditional flu vaccine and the studies on it look great... good immune response within 8-10 days and good safety profile. Our office is seeing an astronomical amount of actual confirmed cases right now. While most do fine at home with rest, fluids and ibuprofen, their is a high mortality rate in previously healthy teens and adolescents. That is what is unique about H1N1. Normally we worry about old and really young people with flu. An article came out in JAMA yesterday that showed a very high mortality rate among children. One word of advice, if you are going to vaccinate, do it now or it may be too late as schools are closing and the midwest as an extreme level of H1N1 activity right now.
Quote from: 4everwarriors' hedge trimmers on October 14, 2009, 09:38:20 PM
I'm getting the Hamthrax vaccination, having 2 kids in daycare will make me almost start using Listerine everyday.
Make sure you lather up the pits with that Listerine and it's not a bad idea to dip the old Gregory in it once or twice just in case. ;D
I plan on staying at a Holiday Inn Express
I've read so many opinions from other doctors saying don't bother....interesting stuff here.
I'm taking the swine flu hysteria with a grain of salt. Not taking it lightly, but not getting crazy with precautions. So, I guess I'm in the don't bother group.
I've never had a flu shot, and won't again this year. Some people have strong immunity systems and others don't. That's just the way it is. I'm not a doctor, or a scientist, but based on what I have read, the flu shot or Swine vaccine won't change that. Most doctors will tell you that simple steps like getting enough rest, eating healthy, and practicing good hygiene are the most important ways to stay healthy.
I would suggest passing on the vaccine. I know a few people who have taken it and have gotten very sick for a few days. Also, most of the people who worked on the vaccine aren't taking it and many in the medical field are avoiding it as well. Since this was a bit of a rushed vaccine and it hasn't been tested much, not to mention it's the live virus type, I'm waiting until I know more who have had it before I even consider getting vaccinated. That said, I haven't had a regular flu shot in a long time and rarely end up sick (knock on wood) so I think I'm passing on it either way.
Clarification: the nasal spray type is the "live virus" type. The regular shot (which has a far greater efficacy, btw) is the regular vaccination type.
If I'm not mistaken, ALL nasal flu vaccines have a weakened, yet live virus, it's not special to H1N1.
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2009/10/12/091012taco_talk_specter
To answer the questions. yes and yes
Henry Sugar, excellent article. I couldn't have said it better myself. As for the poster who stated"
I would suggest passing on the vaccine. I know a few people who have taken it and have gotten very sick for a few days. Also, most of the people who worked on the vaccine aren't taking it and many in the medical field are avoiding it as well. Since this was a bit of a rushed vaccine and it hasn't been tested much, not to mention it's the live virus type, I'm waiting until I know more who have had it before I even consider getting vaccinated
Do some research my friend before offering advice. This is the type of garbage many are spewing. The vaccine is made the exact same way as a regular flu shot by the exact same manufacturers who make the flu shot every year... and it has been tested much. There are five studies out and the results look excellent... robust immune response and rare serious side effects. As the New Yorker states, those who need to be protected are kids, the mortality rate is much much higher for kids. If you have kids of your own, do them a favor and protect yourselves so you don't give the infection to your kids. The CDC predicts a 70% chance of catching the virus if one family member also has the infecton.
If I get the flu I will do the norm: Chill on the couch, get plenty of rest and drink plenty of fluids.
I've never gotten a flu shot before, and I'm not overly worried about this flu season either besides making a point to wash my hands more often. Hopefully everyone at work will do what's best for everyone and stay home if they get sick.
I'll head to a doctor if I'm sick for a while to the point that I can't keep myself hydrated, but besides that I don't see a point to waste my time and the doctor's time.
Quote from: shaquilvaine on October 15, 2009, 12:32:08 PM
Henry Sugar, excellent article. I couldn't have said it better myself. As for the poster who stated"
Do some research my friend before offering advice. This is the type of garbage many are spewing. The vaccine is made the exact same way as a regular flu shot by the exact same manufacturers who make the flu shot every year... and it has been tested much. There are five studies out and the results look excellent... robust immune response and rare serious side effects. As the New Yorker states, those who need to be protected are kids, the mortality rate is much much higher for kids. If you have kids of your own, do them a favor and protect yourselves so you don't give the infection to your kids. The CDC predicts a 70% chance of catching the virus if one family member also has the infecton.
I'm just relaying what my family members that works in the medical field have said. My mother has had a couple co-workers out sick already this year shortly after they were immunized. Could it have been something other than the vaccine that got them sick, sure could have. I just don't like the coincidence. I'm also someone who has a fairly strong immune system and does not normally get the normal influenza vaccine because there are people out there who need it more than I do so I have the same thought process with the H1N1 vaccine.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't take it if you want to be immunized but I for one am going to pass, just as I have with the normal vaccine.
Quote from: shaquilvaine on October 15, 2009, 12:32:08 PM
Henry Sugar, excellent article. I couldn't have said it better myself. As for the poster who stated"
I would suggest passing on the vaccine. I know a few people who have taken it and have gotten very sick for a few days. Also, most of the people who worked on the vaccine aren't taking it and many in the medical field are avoiding it as well. Since this was a bit of a rushed vaccine and it hasn't been tested much, not to mention it's the live virus type, I'm waiting until I know more who have had it before I even consider getting vaccinated
Do some research my friend before offering advice. This is the type of garbage many are spewing. The vaccine is made the exact same way as a regular flu shot by the exact same manufacturers who make the flu shot every year... and it has been tested much. There are five studies out and the results look excellent... robust immune response and rare serious side effects. As the New Yorker states, those who need to be protected are kids, the mortality rate is much much higher for kids. If you have kids of your own, do them a favor and protect yourselves so you don't give the infection to your kids. The CDC predicts a 70% chance of catching the virus if one family member also has the infecton.
Our pediatrician is recommending NO for our kids. I believe I read where Dr. Sears is waivering as well. I never know what to believe with the CDC to be perfectly honest. I guess if things go bad, you can always sue Uncle Sam....oh wait, no you can't. >:(
If the most freakish athlete on this planet can get it, I am definetly getting the vaccination.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4562956
Well, despite my earlier attempt at humor, here's the word I got from a virologist, and that's basically, don't do the vaccine. I would ignore "media" reports about it personally (and actually, even most MDs opinions), but that's just me...
Quote
Sure, fabricate some quasi-effective vaccine that will force an even stronger evolutionary response so we can confront a global killer 5 years down the road. Sounds 'bout right to me. Bacteria aren't the only microorganisms that evolve and adapt in response to such treatments . . .
Sorry, not in very good humor this morning, but the aforementioned is a pretty accurate assessment of what's coming. I do believe a relatively functional vaccine will emerge, but those of us who think longer term and harbor a deep-seated distrust of Big Pharma ask at what cost.
Look for major neurological problems in the coming years. Guillain Barre-like symptoms will be the norm. I wouldn't be surprised to see waivers of some sort issued with this latest batch of vaccines - "we offer a relatively effective preventive measure, but don't come crying to us when you can no longer perambulate". Seen this kind of @#$% before.
The test trials will be perfunctory and narrow. Honestly, it would be better to let this virus run its course, thereby conferring some immunity. Besides, we can't possibly produce enough (vaccine) to go round - wait and see what happens when people who are expecting it are denied.
I would never openly encourage others to avoid taking a vaccine, particularly if the side-effects are limited, but personally, I will not receive any vaccine this year, and should they become mandatory, I will simply falsify documents.
Quote from: reinko on October 15, 2009, 05:01:56 PM
If the most freakish athlete on this planet can get it, I am definetly getting the vaccination.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4562956
Lebron puts his pants on just like you and I, and his athleticism has little if anything to do with immunity. Isn't that like saying pro athletes aren't likely to get cancer?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on October 15, 2009, 05:18:43 PM
Well, despite my earlier attempt at humor, here's the word I got from a virologist, and that's basically, don't do the vaccine. I would ignore "media" reports about it personally (and actually, even most MDs opinions), but that's just me...
That's basically what I'm hearing, flu shot ok but avoid the vaccine for H1N1.
As a bit of info .. I represent my village on our Board of Heath .. what I found interesting was that we will be running our usual Flu shot clinics .. which cost $30 a pop.
But the H1N1 shot, (when it arrives) will be no charge, as the Feds are picking up the entire cost .. and giving money to local health boards to staff the nurses/admin of the shot.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on October 15, 2009, 06:22:54 PM
As a bit of info .. I represent my village on our Board of Heath .. what I found interesting was that we will be running our usual Flu shot clinics .. which cost $30 a pop.
But the H1N1 shot, (when it arrives) will be no charge, as the Feds are picking up the entire cost .. and giving money to local health boards to staff the nurses/admin of the shot.
$30? I guess my company is subsidizing a lot of it. We have to pay $10. Walgreens and Target are offering them for $24 I believe.
I buy insurance for my car and my house. I hope to never file a claim, and it can be uncomfortable making the payment, but I do it. Flu vaccines are like insurance against the flu. I've gotten them every year for the last 15 through work. I have no idea whether I would have gotten the flu without them, but considering I spend a lot of time around poor sick people, as well as having my sleep patterns horribly disrupted, I am not willing to take a chance on this one.
I refuse to participate in any influenza outbreaks . that usually works for me
plus washing my hands continously
Quote from: tower912 on October 15, 2009, 06:45:20 PM
I buy insurance for my car and my house. I hope to never file a claim, and it can be uncomfortable making the payment, but I do it. Flu vaccines are like insurance against the flu. I've gotten them every year for the last 15 through work. I have no idea whether I would have gotten the flu without them, but considering I spend a lot of time around poor sick people, as well as having my sleep patterns horribly disrupted, I am not willing to take a chance on this one.
In 1976, during the first swine flu scare (http://www.capitalcentury.com/1976.html), 1 person died from the flu itself. Hundreds were killed or seriously wounded by the government-distributed inoculation for the flu.
Obviously science has progressed since then, but new vaccines that have had limited testing because they're being rushed out often do more harm than good.
Just to make sure everybody knows all the flu shot / spray differences, I'm gonna' link to the CDC page:
http://www.cdc.gov/FLU/protect/keyfacts.htm
Basically, the "normal" flu vaccine includes H1N1, however, that's different from what they're calling the "2009 H1N1".
So, if your personal pref are for a flu shot or spray, those won't be much different than other years. Just be sure when you get your vaccine you're aware whether it includes the "2009 H1N1" or not - so far that vaccine is only a very limited supply.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 15, 2009, 06:30:34 PM
$30? I guess my company is subsidizing a lot of it. We have to pay $10. Walgreens and Target are offering them for $24 I believe.
Our company covers the shot free - this year, they are also covering our spouse's shot, as well. Used to be $30.
Being in the medical field doesn't make anyone more knowledgable about h1n1 if they haven't done due dilligence in researching the issue. I would never want to advocate for vaccine if I thought it could be harmful. I've literally spents hours pouring over the studies out there. We all have family members in the medical field who we look to for advice. Hell, sometimes I have given advice on topics I probably had no business giving advice on. Example, should your uncle who is a surgeon be giving advice on H1N1? Hell no if he hasn't actually researched it. Chicos, personally I'm disappointed in your pediatrician. Dr. Sears is not a good benchmark for the average American. He caters to the rich and is a concierge pediatrician, asking patients to pay cash for intense individual care. His philosophies IMO don't translate to Joe the plumber and his kids. I have read Sears book "the Vaccine Book" and while interesting, I don't agree with it at all.
The concern for the 1976 swine flu vaccine was it caused death via a rare complication called Guillain Barre syndrome. The actual incidence of Guillain Barre syndrome following a flu shot is one in one million. The five studies that have been ongoing since May on the H1N1 vaccine have had ZERO cases of Guillain barre. Comparing a vaccine from 1976 to one today is like comparing plain penicillin from the 50s to vancomycin. Science has changed.
Where I am coming from is I am in the trenches. I diagnosed five children today with H1N1 and my clinic over 200 kids in the last week. I have knowledge of local hospitalization and ICU admissions for H1N1 and it aint pretty for children and teenagers. In fact, it will likely get worse. Chicos, rates of H1N1 are different in different parts of the country (see the CDC map) but it is rampant in Milwaukee as of this week.
The reality is most people who get the infection do fine at home with rest, fluids and ibuprofen. Most who don't get the vaccine and catch H1N1 will be fine. But what about those who could have been saved from harm. That is the goal of vaccination. I fear the US is too late and they were right in "fast-tracking" the vaccine.
there is no ignoring articles like this:
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/710347
The reason the government is picking up the tab is this is the first influenza pandemic in 41 YEARS! Likely the first and hopefully only one most of us will see in our lifetime.
I try to separate emotion from fact and the science indicates I should be encouraging all children and their parents to get the vaccine, especially those with underlying medical problems like asthma or neuromuscular conditions.
Quote from: tower912 on October 15, 2009, 06:45:20 PM
I buy insurance for my car and my house. I hope to never file a claim, and it can be uncomfortable making the payment, but I do it. Flu vaccines are like insurance against the flu. I've gotten them every year for the last 15 through work. I have no idea whether I would have gotten the flu without them, but considering I spend a lot of time around poor sick people, as well as having my sleep patterns horribly disrupted, I am not willing to take a chance on this one.
I get the flu shot every year, I guess the question is whether the H1N1 flu shot\vaccine is also worth getting. I've been hearing more and more suggestions to get the regular flu shot and not the H1N1. Not sure though.
Quote from: shaquilvaine on October 15, 2009, 09:08:57 PM
Being in the medical field doesn't make anyone more knowledgable about h1n1 if they haven't done due dilligence in researching the issue. I would never want to advocate for vaccine if I thought it could be harmful. I've literally spents hours pouring over the studies out there. We all have family members in the medical field who we look to for advice. Hell, sometimes I have given advice on topics I probably had no business giving advice on. Example, should your uncle who is a surgeon be giving advice on H1N1? Hell no if he hasn't actually researched it. Chicos, personally I'm disappointed in your pediatrician. Dr. Sears is not a good benchmark for the average American. He caters to the rich and is a concierge pediatrician, asking patients to pay cash for intense individual care. His philosophies IMO don't translate to Joe the plumber and his kids. I have read Sears book "the Vaccine Book" and while interesting, I don't agree with it at all.
The concern for the 1976 swine flu vaccine was it caused death via a rare complication called Guillain Barre syndrome. The actual incidence of Guillain Barre syndrome following a flu shot is one in one million. The five studies that have been ongoing since May on the H1N1 vaccine have had ZERO cases of Guillain barre. Comparing a vaccine from 1976 to one today is like comparing plain penicillin from the 50s to vancomycin. Science has changed.
Where I am coming from is I am in the trenches. I diagnosed five children today with H1N1 and my clinic over 200 kids in the last week. I have knowledge of local hospitalization and ICU admissions for H1N1 and it aint pretty for children and teenagers. In fact, it will likely get worse. Chicos, rates of H1N1 are different in different parts of the country (see the CDC map) but it is rampant in Milwaukee as of this week.
The reality is most people who get the infection do fine at home with rest, fluids and ibuprofen. Most who don't get the vaccine and catch H1N1 will be fine. But what about those who could have been saved from harm. That is the goal of vaccination. I fear the US is too late and they were right in "fast-tracking" the vaccine.
there is no ignoring articles like this:
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/710347
The reason the government is picking up the tab is this is the first influenza pandemic in 41 YEARS! Likely the first and hopefully only one most of us will see in our lifetime.
I try to separate emotion from fact and the science indicates I should be encouraging all children and their parents to get the vaccine, especially those with underlying medical problems like asthma or neuromuscular conditions.
Are you a doctor? I'm not trying to be cute, just asking. The pediatrician's philosophy is that we are over vaccinating ourselves as human beings and felt in this case there was not a need. I've read the CDC stuff, but I think you know that gov't and me don't mix very well. If things go badly, you can't sue them they just tell you to suck it. That doesn't make the gov't wrong, but I do wonder how many field studies have been done and what will come out 2 or 3 years from now when they say .... oops.
I'm still going back and forth on this. It's a topic that many parents at our school are trying to deal with right now as the vaccinations will start next week. By the way, they are the nasal variety which we've also heard requires two doses to be effective.
I am a primary care doctor and we started our vaccines this week. When I first started practice I was amazed at the uproar with vaccines and try to look at both sides of the story. I was worried I would be blindly advocating a measure that could be harmful.. cause autiism, etc. For what it is worth, I feel risks outweigh the benefits of this particular vaccine. I've struggled with universal vaccine for some infections like Hepatitis A and B. I don't think it is necessary. Having said that, I've witnessed deaths from pertussis and pneumococccal pneumonia. I feel H1N1 will be the same... many infected and some tragically dead when prevention is an option.
The intent is there for the right reasons with this vaccine. On the flip side, some vaccines are more important than others. Personally, I believe vaccines to be one of the greatest health achievements ever. Case in point, measles kills one in one thousand affected. I've only witnessed two cases and it is making a comeback because of philosophies like Dr. Sears and those who no longer vaccinate. The 1989 outbreak in Milwaukee killed 3 out of 1000 people. Obviously I'm passionate about this issue, but as with all medical decisions realize it is a personal decision. Having said that, I get frustrated at people making decisions because Aunt Rita is a nurse and said it isn't necessary. Give me some facts. People need to do research and make a logical decision. Initially I was very skeptical, but now I'm in the trenches and if my day today is any indication of how the outbreak is going to be, it aint gonna be pretty.
All forms of the H1N1 vaccine take two doses for kids under age 10 to achieve optimal immunity. The first dose gives partial protection (nobody knows how much but it is estimated to give 70% protection. Based on the five studies, two doses takes one to over 97% protection whether it be nasal spray or shot.
On a side note, the virus is very similar to the spanish flu of 1958, so anyone born prior to that date may have good immunity considering almost one third the US population was affected with the flu that year. That is why kids are higher risk. They have zero innate immunity from previous exposure.
Doc, thank you for the response. My wife's father (RIP) was a graduate of MU medical school. I just told her about your opinion. It means something, I assure you.
Let me ask you this, would you have kids get both the "regular" flu shot and the H1N1?
Secondly, for adults, same question? How would you space them out....over a few weeks or at the same time? I've heard they should be spread out.
By the way, I'm feeling kind of achy right now, had a sore throat last night and sweaty....if these are symptoms of regular flu, I assume I should not get any shot while not feeling 100%
Again, thanks for your response...
PS My wife wants to know where you went to med school. ;D She's serious.
Quote from: muhoosier260 on October 15, 2009, 05:58:52 PM
Lebron puts his pants on just like you and I, and his athleticism has little if anything to do with immunity. Isn't that like saying pro athletes aren't likely to get cancer?
Apparently you are have been stricken with a rare disease that can not sense sarcasm. I do not believe a vaccination exists for that yet, but I am sure the CDC will work on it after this whole H1N1 thing.
Chicos, I'm a local guy... Marquette grad and Medical College of Wisconsin grad. Did my training at Children's Hospital of Wisconsin. If you are feeling achy, I would definitely wait until well before getting vaccinated.
As for both the regular flu and H1N1 vaccines, I feel the H1N1 is much more important this year. There is still some importance to the seasonal flu, but given this is the first pandemic in 41 years, I expect the H1n1 to do a lot more damage. I am giving both to my kids. If you get both, you can do them at the same time. Reasons to not give shots together is that it can interfere with the immunity of the other shot. Fortunately the two flu versions can be given together with one exception. You can't get both intranasal versions together. If you'd like to space them out, for adults you could do H1N1 soon and seasonal flu one month later. Seasonal flu generally hits in late nov or december whereas H1N1 is here now. For kids, I'd recommend getting H1N1 and seasonal flu together and then give the second H1N1 one month later.
Quote from: shaquilvaine on October 16, 2009, 07:58:41 AM
Chicos, I'm a local guy... Marquette grad and Medical College of Wisconsin grad. Did my training at Children's Hospital of Wisconsin. If you are feeling achy, I would definitely wait until well before getting vaccinated.
As for both the regular flu and H1N1 vaccines, I feel the H1N1 is much more important this year. There is still some importance to the seasonal flu, but given this is the first pandemic in 41 years, I expect the H1n1 to do a lot more damage. I am giving both to my kids. If you get both, you can do them at the same time. Reasons to not give shots together is that it can interfere with the immunity of the other shot. Fortunately the two flu versions can be given together with one exception. You can't get both intranasal versions together. If you'd like to space them out, for adults you could do H1N1 soon and seasonal flu one month later. Seasonal flu generally hits in late nov or december whereas H1N1 is here now. For kids, I'd recommend getting H1N1 and seasonal flu together and then give the second H1N1 one month later.
Thank you again for your input.
Quote from: shaquilvaine on October 16, 2009, 07:58:41 AM
Chicos, I'm a local guy... Marquette grad and Medical College of Wisconsin grad. Did my training at Children's Hospital of Wisconsin. If you are feeling achy, I would definitely wait until well before getting vaccinated.
As for both the regular flu and H1N1 vaccines, I feel the H1N1 is much more important this year. There is still some importance to the seasonal flu, but given this is the first pandemic in 41 years, I expect the H1n1 to do a lot more damage. I am giving both to my kids. If you get both, you can do them at the same time. Reasons to not give shots together is that it can interfere with the immunity of the other shot. Fortunately the two flu versions can be given together with one exception. You can't get both intranasal versions together. If you'd like to space them out, for adults you could do H1N1 soon and seasonal flu one month later. Seasonal flu generally hits in late nov or december whereas H1N1 is here now. For kids, I'd recommend getting H1N1 and seasonal flu together and then give the second H1N1 one month later.
OK, I appreciate the response. One final question that my wife raised today....this could be rumor mill central but it's going around amongst all her friends (mothers of kids at school).....the talk of this vaccination leading to a higher susceptible of other illness or disease down the road? My understanding all vaccinations have the potential to do harm, but the risks are very low.
Doc Shaq, I wouldn't answer any more of Chico's questions without first obtaining his medical insurance carrier info or paying up front for your consultation. You know what I mean? ;D
Quote from: reinko on October 15, 2009, 05:01:56 PM
If the most freakish athlete on this planet can get it, I am definitely getting the vaccination.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4562956
The freakish athlete also says....
James believes he may have gotten the flu from the shot he and his teammates got recently to fight the virus.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 16, 2009, 09:41:45 AM
Doc Shaq, I wouldn't answer any more of Chico's questions without first obtaining his medical insurance carrier info or paying up front for your consultation. You know what I mean? ;D
LOL Aetna....but since he's in Wisconsin and I'm here in California and God forbid we can't have insurance cover state lines (don't get me started).........
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/16/health/16vaccine.html?em
The NY Times checks in. Some notable sections (emphasis added).
Web sites, Twitter feeds, talk radio and even elevator chatter are awash with skeptics criticizing the vaccine, largely with no factual or scientific basis. The most common complaint is that the vaccine has been newly formed and quickly distributed without the benefit of clinical trials; in fact, the swine flu vaccine was made using the same techniques as seasonal flu shots over the last two decades, and a small number of clinical trials were conducted this year to determine the adequate dose.
There are also claims that the vaccine contains adjuvants — sometimes added to make vaccines more effective — although they have not been used in this one. In addition, there is fear that the vaccine could lead to Guillain-Barré syndrome, as was suspected the last time a swine flu vaccine was distributed, in 1976; flu vaccines are now much purer than they were, minimizing the risk, and Guillain-Barré is far rarer.
In measuring the risk of the vaccine, there is general consensus among doctors that serious adverse reactions are rare and that pregnant women and young people, in particular, are better off with the vaccine than without it. While most people who get H1N1 experience mild symptoms, a recent New England Journal of Medicine study showed that among Americans hospitalized with swine flu last spring, one in four ended up in intensive care and 7 percent of them died. This is America, so do what the f*ck you want, but here's my final two cents.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 15, 2009, 10:28:22 PM
I guess if things go bad, you can always bury your child and sue the H1N1 Virus sue Uncle Sam....oh wait, no you can't.
Damnit guys, quit it with all the facts. Can't we go back to scary talk, and what Aunt Betty the nurse thinks?
For any of you dudes or dudettes, once you got the symptoms and signs of the flu, beg, borrow, or steal Tamiflu. The earlier the drug is started, usually the weaker the case will be.
Quote from: reinko on October 16, 2009, 06:07:01 AM
Apparently you are have been stricken with a rare disease that can not sense sarcasm. I do not believe a vaccination exists for that yet, but I am sure the CDC will work on it after this whole H1N1 thing.
i didn't sense any sarcasm, i guess i don't have an innate ability to sense tone in online conversation. its called teal bud
The right thing to do for all male posters on campus is to graciously offer to "vaccinate" all of your female classmates.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on October 16, 2009, 02:29:10 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/16/health/16vaccine.html?em
The NY Times checks in. Some notable sections (emphasis added).
Web sites, Twitter feeds, talk radio and even elevator chatter are awash with skeptics criticizing the vaccine, largely with no factual or scientific basis. The most common complaint is that the vaccine has been newly formed and quickly distributed without the benefit of clinical trials; in fact, the swine flu vaccine was made using the same techniques as seasonal flu shots over the last two decades, and a small number of clinical trials were conducted this year to determine the adequate dose.
There are also claims that the vaccine contains adjuvants — sometimes added to make vaccines more effective — although they have not been used in this one. In addition, there is fear that the vaccine could lead to Guillain-Barré syndrome, as was suspected the last time a swine flu vaccine was distributed, in 1976; flu vaccines are now much purer than they were, minimizing the risk, and Guillain-Barré is far rarer.
In measuring the risk of the vaccine, there is general consensus among doctors that serious adverse reactions are rare and that pregnant women and young people, in particular, are better off with the vaccine than without it. While most people who get H1N1 experience mild symptoms, a recent New England Journal of Medicine study showed that among Americans hospitalized with swine flu last spring, one in four ended up in intensive care and 7 percent of them died.
This is America, so do what the f*ck you want, but here's my final two cents.
Well now this sucks.....I was all ready to have the kids vaccinated after hearing out Shaq, but if the NY Times is saying this....well now I have to reconsider. ;D I pray it wasn't Jayson Blair writing the article.
Interesting reading and discussion here. My wife is pregs with our first (and second...we're having twins) and we both got flu shots for the first time in our lives, but neither of us is going to get the H1N1 vaccine.
I was trying to get the flu shot, but my doctor ran out, life got busy, etc. etc. etc.
I haven't got the shot the last couple of years. But I have become a hyper Vitamin C addict. I take either a pill, or drink an Emergen-C packet every day. That gives me anywhere between 800 and 1500% of the daily allowance. I haven't even had a cold over the past two years.
Maybe its all in my head...but whatever
I have learned one negative about flu shots over the years. If you are unknowingly in the gestation period of strep throat, it is a lousy time to get a flu shot. Sickest I have ever been. 5 days of 101 fever. Misery. Two days in, my wife caught strep and I was the 'healthy' one, since all activity ceases for my wife when she is sick. Hopefully, never again.
I'll never get vaccinated. I don't want to catch the autism.
Based on the previous discussion I should probably start with this disclaimer: I am NOT a doctor (yet).
However here are some quotes are trends to consider (bold emphasis added):
1) But the worst and most mysterious aspect is that the disease strikes an unusually large number of healthy young people and can be fatal for adolescents and young adults even when they receive intensive care treatment, according to two studies released Monday. "Young healthy people who have had no underlying condition: that is humbling and mysterious. It is rare, but once you see it, you never forget it. You pour in the antibacterials and pray," Dr. John Bartlett, a professor of medicine and a former director of infectious diseases at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/13/flu-risks-high-for-healthy-youths/?feat=home_headlines (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/13/flu-risks-high-for-healthy-youths/?feat=home_headlines))
2) "It's not like seasonal influenza," Nikki Shindo of the World Health Organization said at the conclusion of a three-day meeting of more than 100 experts the WHO convened in Washington to review swine flu. "It can cause very severe disease in previously healthy young adults." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/16/AR2009101601384.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/16/AR2009101601384.html))
3) Of the at least 86 Americans younger than 18 who have died from H1N1, 11 deaths were reported in the past week. About half of the deaths in the past month were among teenagers, Schuchat said. Since Aug. 30, 43 pediatric deaths have been reported, including three in those younger than age 2, five among those ages 2 to 4, 16 in those ages 5 to 11, and 19 among those ages 12 to 17, she said. "These are very sobering statistics," Schuchat said, noting that only about 40 or 50 children usually die during an entire flu season. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/16/AR2009101601384.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/16/AR2009101601384.html))
If you thought you had it, odds are you didn't. Many bad diagnosis in the last 3 months.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/21/cbsnews_investigates/main5404829.shtml
I actually think that much of this conversation will be much ado about nothing, at least for the foreseeable future. If you're on the fence about the H1N1 vaccine, your decision will probably be made for you.
At least where we live, one has to really put in some effort to get an H1N1 vaccination. Very short supply, and not even available from our PCP until December.
While I was up in Blue River, Wisconsin a few weeks ago, I heard that the pig farmers are lobbying the media to avoid using the term Swine Flu, because some may think that it can be caught eating pork products. As recent as Saturday morning I had the Wine Flu from eating summer sausage, cheese and taking down a 1.5 liter bottle of Yellow Tail.
Quote from: muwarrior87 on October 15, 2009, 10:59:27 AM
I would suggest passing on the vaccine. I know a few people who have taken it and have gotten very sick for a few days. Also, most of the people who worked on the vaccine aren't taking it and many in the medical field are avoiding it as well. Since this was a bit of a rushed vaccine and it hasn't been tested much, not to mention it's the live virus type, I'm waiting until I know more who have had it before I even consider getting vaccinated. That said, I haven't had a regular flu shot in a long time and rarely end up sick (knock on wood) so I think I'm passing on it either way.
MUWarrior87: Shaquilvaine is pretty much right on the money. I know it seems like the h1n1 vaccine is too "new" but in reality, the seasonal flu immunization itself is "new" every season too, so aside from having many old versions in the past, it's not much different from H1N1 immunization (except for perhaps a few months' head start on clinical trials).
Also, only the nasal is live. the shot is inactivated virus. in theory, the only side FX w/ the nasal are... nasal symptoms like runny nose (rhinorrhea). Not to say that you can't have gotten infected just before you got the shot, in which case it's too late b/c immunity takes up to 2 weeks to have full effect. True story, this happened to one of my attendings, and so i was nervous too, but i got it anyway.
You dig?
Quote from: MUDish on October 16, 2009, 09:56:45 PM
Interesting reading and discussion here. My wife is pregs with our first (and second...we're having twins) and we both got flu shots for the first time in our lives, but neither of us is going to get the H1N1 vaccine.
okay, i read through everyone's posts now, and my points were already made generally, my apologies.
However @MUDish, i highly recommend you reconsider getting H1N1 vaccination. Being pregnant, young, or taking care of the young, elderly, or immunocompromised puts you in the highest risk bracket, and your family wins on 3 counts. Here's the thing, it's not that the swine flu is horrible as has been already said here, but if you can avoid getting it, getting sick, missing work, kids missing out on whatever . . . i mean, yes, with any medical intervention there is risk, but one deals with risk every day, though most just don't think about it quite so critically on a daily basis. As is always the case in medicine (and life generally!), you have to decide if the risk is outweighed by the benefit.
Obviously it's your personal choice to make, but just make sure you are fully informed, and remember to was your hands a lot :)
From the medicine end: let's just say that major hospitals in the area are mindful and preparing for the worst but hoping for the best. If there's one thing I could change, it is the fear-mongering and hysteria surrounding the flu. Just remember to check your sources for your information and that the job of the news is to get you to watch their segments, even if they embellish what's really (objectively) going on.
Stay well everyone!
Quote from: rugbydrummer on November 08, 2009, 02:01:40 AM
MUWarrior87: Shaquilvaine is pretty much right on the money. I know it seems like the h1n1 vaccine is too "new" but in reality, the seasonal flu immunization itself is "new" every season too, so aside from having many old versions in the past, it's not much different from H1N1 immunization (except for perhaps a few months' head start on clinical trials).
Also, only the nasal is live. the shot is inactivated virus. in theory, the only side FX w/ the nasal are... nasal symptoms like runny nose (rhinorrhea). Not to say that you can't have gotten infected just before you got the shot, in which case it's too late b/c immunity takes up to 2 weeks to have full effect. True story, this happened to one of my attendings, and so i was nervous too, but i got it anyway.
You dig?
Doesn't really matter anymore with the shortages only children are allowed to get the vaccination around here. Every time they have had immunizations, there have been lines of parents with their children and they've run out just about every time.
Quote from: muwarrior87 on November 09, 2009, 11:02:15 AM
Doesn't really matter anymore with the shortages only children are allowed to get the vaccination around here. Every time they have had immunizations, there have been lines of parents with their children and they've run out just about every time.
I know, that part is unfortunate. I'm just praying they can keep manufacturing & distributing it as fast and as safe as possible. Although I guess it takes the decision out of your hands for the meantime, too ;)
On to the basketball season! Hope the BC installs some waterless sanitizers around the arena so people can eat with clean hands . . . >_<