I don't know if there are any NASCAR fans out here. I myself am a very casual observer, but I have always been a big fan of Mark Martin. What he and his team have done this year is unbelievable. After coming so close so many times, it looked like it was all over for him a couple years ago. Yet here he is, and I can't help but fear he is going to knock on the door and have the rug pulled out from under him yet again.
I hope that rug gets yanked, he's no better then Favre.
http://www.nascar-is-not-a-sport.com/
Quote from: marqptm on September 21, 2009, 11:14:52 AM
I hope that rug gets yanked, he's no better then Favre.
He is also 10-12 years older than Favre.
Quote from: SaintPaulWarrior on September 21, 2009, 12:40:04 PM
He is also 10-12 years older than Favre.
Yeah, but he just drives a car. Big deal.
I don't know what NASCAR is, but if it is some sort of a sport, it sounds impressive in that you can be so old and still 'play it'. I guess. On a level with shuffleboard, cribbage and pinochle at least.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 21, 2009, 12:27:47 PM
http://www.nascar-is-not-a-sport.com/
For a site that claims to make an "intellectual argument" and posit that NASCAR fans are "not familiar with the dictionary or proper noun usage," it certainly leaves something to be desired from a grammar/spelling/punctuation standpoint. Which, admittedly, doesn't mean that its argument is invalid.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 21, 2009, 01:11:46 PM
I don't know what NASCAR is, but if it is some sort of a sport, it sounds impressive in that you can be so old and still 'play it'. I guess. On a level with shuffleboard, cribbage and pinochle at least.
I'm going to have to agree that turning left a bunch of times doesn't make it a sport.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 21, 2009, 01:11:46 PM
I don't know what NASCAR is, but if it is some sort of a sport, it sounds impressive in that you can be so old and still 'play it'. I guess. On a level with shuffleboard, cribbage and pinochle at least.
You forgot golf.
I always love when people say he drives a car...big deal. Have any of you ever driven a car like that? I worked extensively with NASCAR the last three years and have had the opportunity to drive on several tracks, not as a passenger, but actually driving. My top speed was 152 at California Speedway with 7 other cars on the track with me. I did 12 laps and was absolutely exhausted. Those cars are a load....these guys are in great shape and have to make decisions in a split second that are incredible.
Whether it's a "sport" or not, is debatable, but it's definitely a big deal to drive a care with 42 other cars all going 150mph plus (on some tracks, 200mph).
Is golf a sport? Or is it a game? Is bowling a sport...or a game? We could have this argument about many things...curling, gymnastics, bowling, golf, motor sports, etc.
The definition of sport does not necessarily include physical activities, in includes things like card games, board games. In the general definition of SPORT, it most certainly applies. It was one of the first things taught to us in graduate school. It's not a degree in SPORTS administration, it's a degree in SPORT Administration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 21, 2009, 01:22:47 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport
You win. How can anyone possibly argue against a description written on wikipedia.org??
I do think race car driving or whatever it's called is a sport, just a stupid sport in my opinion. There is some weird scoring system, apparently there are even 'teams' and there is a 'winner' at events - I'm OK with calling it a sport. Chugging a jar of milk after winning is extremely questionable.
"These guys are in a great shape"? Seriously? Some of those guys even make ME look fit.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 21, 2009, 01:39:39 PM
"These guys are in a great shape"? Seriously? Some of those guys even make ME look fit.
Who exactly?
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 21, 2009, 01:39:39 PM
You win. How can anyone possibly argue against a description written on wikipedia.org??
I do think race car driving or whatever it's called is a sport, just a stupid sport in my opinion. There is some weird scoring system, apparently there are even 'teams' and there is a 'winner' at events - I'm OK with calling it a sport. Chugging a jar of milk after winning is extremely questionable.
"These guys are in a great shape"? Seriously? Some of those guys even make ME look fit.
I'd like to know who in the racing world (NASCAR and IRL) is not in very good shape. I'm struggling to think of any. We could make similar comments about more than a few DH's over the years in baseball. Did Cecil Fielder look fit? How about a few of the Nose Tackles in football? It's not always about how they look, it's what they can do.
I'm not a big fan of Wiki, either, but they are consistent with the general definition of sport as I was taught in academia.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 21, 2009, 01:54:11 PM
I'd like to know who in the racing world (NASCAR and IRL) is not in very good shape. I'm struggling to think of any. We could make similar comments about more than a few DH's over the years in baseball. Did Cecil Fielder look fit? How about a few of the Nose Tackles in football? It's not always about how they look, it's what they can do.
I'm not a big fan of Wiki, either, but they are consistent with the general definition of sport as I was taught in academia.
I don't know who is in Nascar and I don't know what IRL is. I think that Tony Stewart guy that I saw on TV commercials all weekend is in Nascar -- yeah, the slob holding a big effin Whopper from BK in his dirty little hands. Just looked him up - are all these guys short little guys? Says Tony is 5'9 180 lbs. -- CDC would tell you he's overweight and I would as well. The height and weight of nose tackles is largely important to their position -- I don't know if Tony Stewart being a fat slob helps him press the pedal with more precision -- maybe so. But then I think of another race 'person'...
That decent looking chick Danica Patrick is joining Nascar isn't she?... I may take back what I said about it being a sport. If it's past 2nd grade and you're still letting girls play, it may not be a sport.
At any rate, I am OK with calling racing a sport. But, I'd rather watch and play bowling (or Uno,... or marbles... or kick-the-can).
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 21, 2009, 02:12:02 PM
I don't know who is in Nascar and I don't know what IRL is. I think that Tony Stewart guy that I saw on TV commercials all weekend is in Nascar -- yeah, the slob holding a big effin Whopper from BK in his dirty little hands. Just looked him up - are all these guys short little guys? Says Tony is 5'9 180 lbs. -- CDC would tell you he's overweight and I would as well. The height and weight of nose tackles is largely important to their position -- I don't know if Tony Stewart being a fat slob helps him press the pedal with more precision -- maybe so. But then I think of another race 'person'...
That decent looking chick Danica Patrick is joining Nascar isn't she?... I may take back what I said about it being a sport. If it's past 2nd grade and you're still letting girls play, it may not be a sport.
At any rate, I am OK with calling racing a sport. But, I'd rather watch and play bowling (or Uno,... or marbles... or kick-the-can).
So you got Tony Stewart, who would be consider 'mildly overweight' by the AMA.
Anyone else? If you're going to make ridiculous statements, please back them up.
Yes, most drivers are smaller because of how the cars are that they have to get into, especially IRL. But, there are a few that are over 6 feet tall as well.
I used to say the same thing as you about motorsports until I went to some events. Quite a rush to see these guys whipping by you at 200mph. Some good times, but it's like Vegas. I can handle Vegas for 2 days and then I have to get out. About 1 race a year for me is great, beyond that and I have to take a pass.
My one race this year is in a few weeks for NASCAR chase race out here in California.
Quote from: marqptm on September 21, 2009, 02:22:13 PM
So you got Tony Stewart, who would be consider 'mildly overweight' by the AMA.
Anyone else? If you're going to make ridiculous statements, please back them up.
Please stop encouraging him from posting any more than he already does.
Quote from: marqptm on September 21, 2009, 02:22:13 PM
So you got Tony Stewart, who would be consider 'mildly overweight' by the AMA.
Anyone else? If you're going to make ridiculous statements, please back them up.
Like I said, I don't know who races. I just know that this weekend I saw some pig with a whopper in his greasy hands on TV commercials and on Friday on ESPN there was some loud hillbilly old man slob named 'Force' that was definitely not 'in great shape'.
I didn't make a ridiculous statement, rather gave a reasonable opinion... however, you lied - you claim the AMA would consider a 26.6 BMI 'mildly overweight'. I do not believe they consider anything 'mildly' overweight. While the AMA does break own obesity into mild, extreme, etc... I don't think they do for overweight. Are you lying for the sake of trying to convince me that Tony Stewart is in great shape?
BTW, are you the PT guy? Ever work with people that have had ACDF / any horror stories?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 21, 2009, 02:32:38 PM
Please stop encouraging him from posting any more than he already does.
:D :D :D
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 21, 2009, 02:39:57 PM
Like I said, I don't know who races. I just know that this weekend I saw some pig with a whopper in his greasy hands on TV commercials and on Friday on ESPN there was some loud hillbilly old man slob named 'Force' that was definitely not 'in great shape'.
I didn't make a ridiculous statement, rather gave a reasonable opinion... however, you lied - you claim the AMA would consider a 26.6 BMI 'mildly overweight'. I do not believe they consider anything 'mildly' overweight. While the AMA does break own obesity into mild, extreme, etc... I don't think they do for overweight. Are you lying for the sake of trying to convince me that Tony Stewart is in great shape?
BTW, are you the PT guy? Ever work with people that have had ACDF / any horror stories?
You made a very misinformed opinion, which continues to display the brilliance of your ignorance.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 21, 2009, 01:11:46 PM
I don't know what NASCAR is, but if it is some sort of a sport, it sounds impressive in that you can be so old and still 'play it'. I guess. On a level with shuffleboard, cribbage and pinochle at least.
So baseball must not have been impressive back in the day? Paige debuted at age 41 and pitched until age 47. And that is assuming that was really his age. Many historians believe he was in his mid 50's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satchel_Paige (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satchel_Paige)
Quote from: TallTitan34 on September 21, 2009, 04:08:17 PM
So baseball must not have been impressive back in the day? Paige debuted at age 41 and pitched until age 47. And that is assuming that was really his age. Many historians believe he was in his mid 50's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satchel_Paige (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satchel_Paige)
Hey look, the wikipedia citings continue to impress me, but the comparison between baseball in the 40s and 50s and Nascar today is something I would only expect a mascot to come up with. Paige is an exception, not a rule. Over time, MLB players have, on average, gotten younger.. perhaps as time goes on, Nascar will have fewer old, obese men and pettite little girls in it. Yee haw
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 21, 2009, 04:31:24 PM
Hey look, the wikipedia citings continue to impress me, but the comparison between baseball in the 40s and 50s and Nascar today is something I would only expect a mascot to come up with. Paige is an exception, not a rule. Over time, MLB players have, on average, gotten younger.. perhaps as time goes on, Nascar will have fewer old, obese men and pettite little girls in it. Yee haw
Alright is this citation better for you? I didn't realize I was turning in a report.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=paigesa01 (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=paigesa01)
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 21, 2009, 04:31:24 PM
Over time, MLB players have, on average, gotten younger.. perhaps as time goes on, Nascar will have fewer old, obese men and pettite little girls in it. Yee haw
Rarely do I encourage use of the ignore button, but Jay Bee makes that prospect awfully tempting. His pattern of his idiotic behavior has become uber-predictable, and even more lame...
1. Make some idiotic, uninformed comment.
2. Someone else points out the many things wrong with said comment.
3. Raise the level of ridiculousness of subsequent comments in an attempt to make it appear as if the first was just one in a line of facetious and/or "humorous" comments.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on September 21, 2009, 04:46:11 PM
Rarely do I encourage use of the ignore button, but Jay Bee makes that prospect awfully tempting. His pattern of his idiotic behavior has become uber-predictable, and even more lame...
1. Make some idiotic, uninformed comment.
2. Someone else points out the many things wrong with said comment.
3. Raise the level of ridiculousness of subsequent comments in an attempt to make it appear as if the first was just one in a line of facetious and/or "humorous" comments.
4. Say his comments often enough so people just ignore him enough to declare victory.
My feeling is that anyone who posts in the Superbar more than in the Al just wants attention anyway.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 21, 2009, 04:31:24 PM
Hey look, the wikipedia citings continue to impress me, but the comparison between baseball in the 40s and 50s and Nascar today is something I would only expect a mascot to come up with. Paige is an exception, not a rule. Over time, MLB players have, on average, gotten younger.. perhaps as time goes on, Nascar will have fewer old, obese men and pettite little girls in it. Yee haw
I love how you can make such sweeping generalizations about all NASCAR drivers based off of Tony Stewart, Danica Patrick, and Mark Martin.
I'm sure you wouldn't be happy if I made a sweeping generalization about yourself now would you, Jay Bee?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 21, 2009, 01:22:47 PM
I always love when people say he drives a car...big deal. Have any of you ever driven a car like that? I worked extensively with NASCAR the last three years and have had the opportunity to drive on several tracks, not as a passenger, but actually driving. My top speed was 152 at California Speedway with 7 other cars on the track with me. I did 12 laps and was absolutely exhausted. Those cars are a load....these guys are in great shape and have to make decisions in a split second that are incredible.
Whether it's a "sport" or not, is debatable, but it's definitely a big deal to drive a care with 42 other cars all going 150mph plus (on some tracks, 200mph).
Is golf a sport? Or is it a game? Is bowling a sport...or a game? We could have this argument about many things...curling, gymnastics, bowling, golf, motor sports, etc.
The definition of sport does not necessarily include physical activities, in includes things like card games, board games. In the general definition of SPORT, it most certainly applies. It was one of the first things taught to us in graduate school. It's not a degree in SPORTS administration, it's a degree in SPORT Administration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport
Proof of Chico's ability to be a humongous douche.
Additionally, with a little practice, MANY people could drive a car around the track. NASCAR has always been about who gets the most financial backing, and who has the best pit crew. Why do you think some drivers go from top 10 some years to drifting away to the back of the pack the next year... just to see them rise back up after getting a new 'team'. This is preposterous. To think that the drivers are athletes is also ridiculous. How much arm strength does it take to shift, pedal, and steer? By that sort of logic I am an athlete every day on my way to work!
Be honest, if you saw a NASCAR driver walking down the street would you look at him and think that he looks like an athlete? No, you wouldn't. Compared to a basketball player, or football, or even a track star, these guys look like every day Joe's.
NASCAR is not a sport. Golf, to me, is not a sport. Its a past time or a hobby. That said, I consider it more of a sport than NASCAR because it requires more than menial physical activity.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 22, 2009, 08:09:19 AM
Proof of Chico's ability to be a humongous douche.
Additionally, with a little practice, MANY people could drive a car around the track. NASCAR has always been about who gets the most financial backing, and who has the best pit crew. Why do you think some drivers go from top 10 some years to drifting away to the back of the pack the next year... just to see them rise back up after getting a new 'team'. This is preposterous. To think that the drivers are athletes is also ridiculous. How much arm strength does it take to shift, pedal, and steer? By that sort of logic I am an athlete every day on my way to work!
Be honest, if you saw a NASCAR driver walking down the street would you look at him and think that he looks like an athlete? No, you wouldn't. Compared to a basketball player, or football, or even a track star, these guys look like every day Joe's.
NASCAR is not a sport. Golf, to me, is not a sport. Its a past time or a hobby. That said, I consider it more of a sport than NASCAR because it requires more than menial physical activity.
Chicos is being a "douche" because he has a different definition of "sport" than you do?
Hmmmm....
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 22, 2009, 08:09:19 AM
NASCAR has always been about who gets the most financial backing, and who has the best pit crew. Why do you think some drivers go from top 10 some years to drifting away to the back of the pack the next year... just to see them rise back up after getting a new 'team'.
I've seen this happen in tennis, golf (but you don't consider that a sport) and sometimes in long distance track and field.
Athlete's have peaks and valleys, and that's why they are great in some tournaments or races or games, and horrible in others.
I'm not saying that NASCAR teams aren't important (you're right about that), but I think you are going to an extreme and oversimplifying it.
*Back to your regularly scheduled Chico bashing and subsequent name dropping.*
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 22, 2009, 08:09:19 AM
How much arm strength does it take to shift, pedal, and steer? By that sort of logic I am an athlete every day on my way to work!
OK. Now instead of going 65 on your way to work on a freeway, increase that to 170-200 MPH on an enclosed track, with 3 dozen others inches away from you...and do that for 3 hours. Great analogy!
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on September 22, 2009, 09:05:19 AM
OK. Now instead of going 65 on your way to work on a freeway, increase that to 170-200 MPH on an enclosed track, with 3 dozen others inches away from you...and do that for 3 hours. Great analogy!
You can tell Hard on has never actually done this yet he rips people saying that anyone could do it. Not surprising.
43 cars whipping around at that speed requires incredible mental fortitude and concentration along with the physical attributes.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 22, 2009, 09:20:11 AM
You can tell Hard on has never actually done this yet he rips people saying that anyone could do it. Not surprising.
43 cars whipping around at that speed requires incredible mental fortitude and concentration along with the physical attributes.
I agree you need something unique in the mind to do this (whether it's better described as 'mental fortitude' or 'being a weird hillbilly dirtball freakshow' is debatable), but I'm failing to understand the physical attributes. Is it being a fat old man? Is it being a tiny little 5'2, 100 pound girl? I just don't see it what the common physical attributes are that are required to race cars. I suppose you might say stellar hand-eye coordination? But, if the answer is 'great upper arm strength... big strong legs... fit with tons of endurance, etc'... just can't see it.
All this car talk is making me crave a big ol chew. And I might call up my hot cousin and see what she's up to this weekend. I hope the store has Budweiser on special.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 22, 2009, 09:29:46 AM
I agree you need something unique in the mind to do this (whether it's better described as 'mental fortitude' or 'being a weird hillbilly dirtball freakshow' is debatable), but I'm failing to understand the physical attributes. Is it being a fat old man? Is it being a tiny little 5'2, 100 pound girl? I just don't see it what the common physical attributes are that are required to race cars. I suppose you might say stellar hand-eye coordination? But, if the answer is 'great upper arm strength... big strong legs... fit with tons of endurance, etc'... just can't see it.
All this car talk is making me crave a big ol chew. And I might call up my hot cousin and see what she's up to this weekend. I hope the store has Budweiser on special.
IRL is different than NASCAR. Yes, being a 5'2" girl for IRL is possible because those things run on rails. She will find in NASCAR that she is probably overmatched at first due to the physical constraints.
All I can say is you're fighting the wheel often and at that speed, it requires a tremendous amount of strength to keep the car on the track and not hitting your other 42 competitors all while going 200mph.
Yes, I totally get that many people don't think it's a sport, that's fine. Everyone has their own opinions, but to when people say it's easy or doesn't require anything special to do, they're just wrong.
does holding having to go to the bathroom for 3 hours count as a physical attribute?
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 22, 2009, 09:29:46 AM
All this car talk is making me crave a big ol chew. And I might call up my hot cousin and see what she's up to this weekend. I hope the store has Budweiser on special.
What could only think of 3 southern stereotypes? You're slipping Jay Bee.
remove the power steering and I *MIGHT* consider it a sport.
does it require skill? yes, but many things do.
these people are NOT athletes.
99.9% of people never get a CHANCE to drive a car that fast... so who is to say that more than 50% of people couldn't do it?
what a stupid argument.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 22, 2009, 03:27:13 PM
remove the power steering and I *MIGHT* consider it a sport.
does it require skill? yes, but many things do.
these people are NOT athletes.
99.9% of people never get a CHANCE to drive a car that fast... so who is to say that more than 50% of people couldn't do it?
what a stupid argument.
Just so I'm clear, you're stance is that 50% of the population might be prodigies and magically able to drive a race car at 200 mph?
I mean, I've never had a chance to poll vault, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be good at it. Right?
Quote from: 2002mualum on September 22, 2009, 04:00:22 PM
Just so I'm clear, you're stance is that 50% of the population might be prodigies and magically able to drive a race car at 200 mph?
I mean, I've never had a chance to poll vault, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be good at it. Right?
Pol
e vault.
Your vs. you're.
I'm certain there are no good pole vaulters who look anything like Tony Stewart. Or like that tub Sarah Fisher. There are some activities where being in good shape doesn't matter much - such as race car driving, Dungeons & Dragons and cheering for the Packers and/or Badgers.
By the way, I continue to believe car racing meets a reasonable definition of 'sport'. It's just stupid and silly sport. And icky.
Did you really just indent paragraphs on a message board?
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 22, 2009, 04:21:09 PM
Pole vault. Your vs. you're.
I'm certain there are no good pole vaulters who look anything like Tony Stewart. Or like that tub Sarah Fisher. There are some activities where being in good shape doesn't matter much - such as race car driving, Dungeons & Dragons and cheering for the Packers and/or Badgers.
By the way, I continue to believe car racing meets a reasonable definition of 'sport'. It's just stupid and silly sport. And icky.
good catch on the grammar. my bad.
As far as if it's a sport or not a sport, I have no idea, and I think it's a stupid argument. But, some of you guys are pretending that it's not a skill, when certainly it is a skill.
Hards, I'm not sure that assuming 50% of people could secretly be good race car drivers is a good way to prove a point. Just seems a bit silly. I can find 10,000 activities that I've never tried and it's safe to assume I would suck at. Race driving included.
Jay Bee,
I would not describe John Kruk as a physically fit person (later in his career), but he was a hell of a ball player. But, that doesn't mean that anybody can get up and hit a baseball.
Physical fitness is NOT required for a lot of skills in life, some of those skills are even sports related.
Quote from: 2002mualum on September 22, 2009, 04:00:22 PM
Just so I'm clear, you're stance is that 50% of the population might be prodigies and magically able to drive a race car at 200 mph?
I mean, I've never had a chance to poll vault, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be good at it. Right?
Probably one of the worst analogies possible. Pole vaulters require a combination of speed, strength and agility that's probably more diverse than any other track and field event, and I'd be amazed if there are any successful pole vaulters that weren't in incredible all-around shape. Golf, on the other hand...
Quote from: dsfire on September 22, 2009, 04:36:55 PM
Probably one of the worst analogies possible. Pole vaulters require a combination of speed, strength and agility that's probably more diverse than any other track and field event, and I'd be amazed if there are any successful pole vaulters that weren't in incredible all-around shape. Golf, on the other hand...
yes, but the point Hards was making is that 50% of the population could be good at race car driving if they were just given a chance.
Well, most people have never been given the chance to pole vault, fly a plane, ride a horse, play hockey, surf, etc., and I think it's safe to assume that people wouldn't just automatically be good at any of those activities.
They all require different skill sets, and most people wouldn't be able to do those activities at a high level.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying NASCAR is a sport, I'm just saying that it's certainly a skill (that most people don't have), so let's not pretend that it isn't.
Quote from: 2002mualum on September 22, 2009, 04:45:14 PM
yes, but the point Hards was making is that 50% of the population could be good at race car driving if they were just given a chance.
Well, most people have never been given the chance to pole vault, fly a plane, ride a horse, play hockey, surf, etc., and I think it's safe to assume that people wouldn't just automatically be good at any of those activities.
They all require different skill sets, and most people wouldn't be able to do those activities at a high level.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying NASCAR is a sport, I'm just saying that it's certainly a skill (that most people don't have), so let's not pretend that it isn't.
I guess you could infer that was what I was saying... exactly that... but that would be you. You missed the point, completely. It was a hypothetical... see the phrase "so who is to say".
I never said it didn't take skill. It clearly does. But does that make them athletes in a sport? Not in my opinion! It takes skill to mow straight lines in the lawn! It takes skill to do a LOT of things. Does that make them sports?
NO.
fwiw, flying a plane is ridiculously easy... as is riding a horse (as in, probably 50% of people could pick it up in a few hours) I would consider the other things you listed as sports that some people no matter how hard they tried they could not be good at... because they require some semblance of athletic ability.
put it this way, if you are over 50 and can play the 'game' it
probably isn't a sport.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 22, 2009, 05:36:25 PM
I guess you could infer that was what I was saying... exactly that... but that would be you. You missed the point, completely. It was a hypothetical... see the phrase "so who is to say".
I never said it didn't take skill. It clearly does. But does that make them athletes in a sport? Not in my opinion! It takes skill to mow straight lines in the lawn! It takes skill to do a LOT of things. Does that make them sports?
NO.
fwiw, flying a plane is ridiculously easy... as is riding a horse (as in, probably 50% of people could pick it up in a few hours) I would consider the other things you listed as sports that some people no matter how hard they tried they could not be good at... because they require some semblance of athletic ability.
put it this way, if you are over 50 and can play the 'game' it probably isn't a sport.
flying a plane might be easy.
flying a fighter plane = hard.
Riding a horse = easy. Being a race jockey = hard.
Surfing = easy. Being a competitive surfer = hard.
Driving a car = easy. Racing a car = hard.
I'll leave it to you guys to argue about the "sport" vs "not a sport" thing (I never said it was a sport), but let's not make racing sound easy, that's naive. It's hard to do well.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 22, 2009, 03:27:13 PM
remove the power steering and I *MIGHT* consider it a sport.
does it require skill? yes, but many things do.
these people are NOT athletes.
99.9% of people never get a CHANCE to drive a car that fast... so who is to say that more than 50% of people couldn't do it?
what a stupid argument.
So you believe that 50% of the people could drive a car 200mph for 250 laps while 42 other cars are also going 200mph at the same time in the same space.
Uhm yeah, talk about a stupid argument. I'm pretty sure 50% could make a layup, too.
At the end of the day, several billion dollars and a crap load of fans, second only to the NFL the last few years, say it's a sport. I think that's all the networks really care about quite frankly.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 22, 2009, 11:30:19 PM
So you believe that 50% of the people could drive a car 200mph for 250 laps while 42 other cars are also going 200mph at the same time in the same space.
Uhm yeah, talk about a stupid argument. I'm pretty sure 50% could make a layup, too.
At the end of the day, several billion dollars and a crap load of fans, second only to the NFL the last few years, say it's a sport. I think that's all the networks really care about quite frankly.
the point is that most people never have the CHANCE to drive a car that fast, so who knows if we even have the best drivers out there? MOST kids at some point in their lives pick up a basketball and have an opportunity to see how they fare at the sport.
As for 2k2's arguement, I get your point, its not easy... but I'm not arguing that it isn't... I'm saying it isn't a sport.
and just because millions of people attend and watch something on TV that does not make it a sport. WWE anyone? Shall we start that debate next?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 23, 2009, 07:49:36 AM
the point is that most people never have the CHANCE to drive a car that fast, so who knows if we even have the best drivers out there? MOST kids at some point in their lives pick up a basketball and have an opportunity to see how they fare at the sport.
Yea, but a lot of people don't get chance to downhill ski, and we can all still recognize that it's hard and most people can't do it. I just can't understand this line of thinking. Just because a lot of people don't get a chance to try something doesn't mean that it's not difficult.
As for 2k2's arguement, I get your point, its not easy... but I'm not arguing that it isn't... I'm saying it isn't a sport.
Cool. We agree there.
and just because millions of people attend and watch something on TV that does not make it a sport. WWE anyone? Shall we start that debate next?
Agreed. Just because millions of people watch something, it doesn't mean it's a sport.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 23, 2009, 08:13:04 AM
I learned to downhill ski when I was 7... ;D
I learned to drive at 10.
Doesn't mean I could be a race car driver. It means I have irresponsible parents.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 23, 2009, 07:49:36 AM
the point is that most people never have the CHANCE to drive a car that fast, so who knows if we even have the best drivers out there?
Why do you suppose that is? I have kids I am encouraging to play basketball, baseball, etc...If they cam to me wanting to get behind the wheel of a race car, I would probably tell them to go shoot hoops in the driveway.
obviously the cost and safety.
What is Bob Griese thinking? Good thing Montoya is pretty level-headed. Griese should be fired.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2009/10/montoya-diffuses-grieses-taco-remark-i-dont-really-care.html
Juan Pablo Montoya drove to a third-place finish Sunday at Martinsville Speedway. After the race, Montoya served to drive away some of the controversy surrounding Bob Griese's comment about him during Saturday's Ohio State-Minnesota college football broadcast on ABC.
Griese had said Saturday that Montoya was absent from a graphic of the top-five drivers in NASCAR points because he was "out getting a taco." Griese apologized at the end of the telecast, then made another apology during halftime of the Florida-Mississippi State game.
Montoya answered a question about Griese at the end of his news conference with a smile and a joke.
"I don't even know who he is," Montoya said. "Somebody mentioned it to me. I don't really care to tell you the truth. I could say I spent the last three hours eating tacos, but I was actually driving the car."
After his remarks, Montoya then traded places in the news conference with second-place finisher Jimmie Johnson, the three-time Sprint Cup champ and current points leader. Johnson couldn't resist a dig.
Said Johnson: "Can you save some tacos for me? I love tacos."
I'm just glad he didn't tell Jeff Gordon to go get a burger, can you imagine the outrage then.
Except for the small fact Montoya is from Columbia, not Mexico as that old fart Griese was implying. But I'm sure to him they are all the same.
I didn't want to start a new thread so I did a search for any racing threads ad only found this and it was such entertaining reading I decided to post in here and bump it in case anyone else missed this. ;)
The reason I searched ws to mention the Indy Fest street party tonight at the Milwaukee Hilton. Meet drivers, see the Eddie Butts Band in case you never had LOL etc.
Our HOG chapter is leading a parade of Harleys down there tonight and will do a lap on the Milwaukee Mile just before the race on Saturday as well. BTW, it's a blast doing a lap in front of the fans (even if we are only allowed to go 35 mph). To hear the roar of the fans in the grandstand when we come out of turn 4 always makes me grin ear-to-ear.