they have (egad) St. John's ranked ahead of us.
it might happen.
I just want these kids to taste post-season play this year, so they get hungry.
I think 12th is a bit low, but I would be very surprised if we made the NCAA's this year. I think a nice run in the NIT would be realistic expectations for this team. In terms of the Big East, I would say 9th.
Does Athlon's still have an old roster?
I'm pretty sure they do...and therefore the ranking is probably not correct.
Don't underestimate St. Johns. The last two years of playing freshman and sophmores almost exclusively will definitely pay off, plus Mason Jr. qualified for a 5th year with a medical redshirt last month. I'm not saying they will win the BE, but I think they are way tougher than you give them credit (egad). In a way, their last couple years will be very similar to us this year -- a bunch of unproven guys (sans Lazar) who will definitely benefit from getting thrown into the mix early as freshman (and transfers). In a couple of years, with experience under their belts, Maymon and Co. could/should be contending for BE title. For now, we have to go through some growing pains. Sight unseen, I would be satisfied with NIT. NCAAs would be way beyond expectations.
I agree, I see St. John's as a NIT team and possibly even an outside shot at the NCAAs this year. I would be surprised if MU finishes ahead of St. John's this season.
I don't take it as disrespect. We have 1 started returning. We have 2 players back who averaged double digit minutes. We are a blank slate. A blank slate with potential. Right now, I would take an NIT berth in a heartbeat. Plus, it would give our young guys a chance to learn how to make a postseason run.
Blank slate is the best description I've seen. That's what we are - a total unknown until we get out there and start playing. I hope we get off to a good start and build on it. But the crystal ball is cloudy right now - lol - we will know shortly :)
If 12th is all we can expect this year, then first off bringing in 4 jucos (and a 5th on the way) was a huge mistake. We should have gone after true frosh. That way we avoid perpetual rebuilding mode, and if they're good we'll have them for three or four more seasons (not just one or two more--as will the case of Buycks, Fulce, Butler).
Second, if the coaching staff agrees that we're no better than 12th, then they should pick at least two newcomers to redshirt. Mbao certainly, and perhaps Erik Williams or Junior Cadougan. In fact, redshirt all three of them. An eight man rotation of Cuby, Hayward, Fulce, Butler, Otule, Maymon, DJO, Buycks should be more than sufficient to get us a couple of wins over DePaul plus a couple more over PC, USF and Rutgers. 4 total wins should put us solidly in the 12th to 14th range.
And I don't buy the notion that the game play will help them this year. They'll get nearly 100% of the development they would if they played--since most of the development happens in practice and in the weight room. They'll have a full year to learn both the offense and defense playing every day in practice against D1 competition (their own teammates).
But most importantly, they won't waste a year of their eligibility on a throwaway season.
Zoinks...I actually agree with Marquette84. We loaded up with way too many JUCOs to be settling for a 12th place finish. We could accomplish that with freshman. I don't agree with the red-shirting he proposed, however. Maybe Mbao, but not Junior or Williams.
Buzz loaded up on JUCO's to balance his classes. Theoretically, in the not too distant future, we will have 3 or 4 openings every year, instead of having 1 opening, as we would have at some point if we had 7 freshmen this year. I keep telling myself that is the plan.
All we can do is see how we play. . . won;t be long :)
Quote from: tower912 on September 06, 2009, 04:53:05 PM
Buzz loaded up on JUCO's to balance his classes. Theoretically, in the not too distant future, we will have 3 or 4 openings every year, instead of having 1 opening, as we would have at some point if we had 7 freshmen this year. I keep telling myself that is the plan.
I hope you are right, but my guess is that he's on the JUCO sauce and can't get off it. Time will tell.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 06, 2009, 05:15:25 PM
I hope you are right, but my guess is that he's on the JUCO sauce and can't get off it. Time will tell.
Does Jimmy Butler qualify as "JUCO sauce?" Is that sauce bad or good? Edit
Chico, in a perfect world, we recruit a 4 star center, wing, and guard in each class who stays all 4 years and makes academic all american. In addition, buzz has deep roots in jucoland. I hope I am right and this is a short term solution, but I have a feeling Buzz is going to continue to recruit like a madman from wherever he can get players. As long as they graduate and don't act like the Badger freshmen, I will never crap on jucos.
I'm trusting the coaches to do what is BEST for Marquette, and who are in far better positions than any of us in judging who we can get and when. I'm also impressed with Butler, and Fulce was suppsoed to be the real deal w/o injury. JUCO sauce? That is an outrageous statement.
Let's see who can play.
Quote from: Daniel on September 06, 2009, 09:01:05 PM
I'm trusting the coaches to do what is BEST for Marquette, and who are in far better positions than any of us in judging who we can get and when. I'm also impressed with Butler, and Fulce was suppsoed to be the real deal w/o injury. JUCO sauce? That is an outrageous statement.
Let's see who can play.
+1. Funny how some are locking us into 12th place and hoping for an NIT berth. Either the players somehow get great experience playing for nothing in practice by redshirting, or they get great experience playing for nothing in the NIT? Play the players who earn their minutes and stop with the continual low expectations-we're not St. John's. Only us, Pitt and Villanova have made the NCAA Tournament each of the last four years out of the Big East, and we should never be satisfied with going to the Not In Tournament.
Quote from: lorthneeda on September 06, 2009, 08:51:14 PM
Does Jimmy Butler qualify as "JUCO sauce?" Is that sauce bad or good? Please enlighten, you f-ing loser.
I'd love to enlighten, without the name calling. First, I think Jimmy Butler is a wonderful player and seems like a wonderful kid. My worry is that by going the JUCO route constantly means rotating players through your system every 2 or 3 years instead of every 4 years. Furthermore, it means throwing these guys into the mix almost immediately because they don't have many years left of eligibility
It means roster turnover at an accelerated rate. We've seen a lot of that already in the last 5 years with transfers and I'm hoping we can get back to a program that is reloading each year with high school players.
That's what I'm talking about. I understand why Buzz did it this year to balance the classes, but knowing his background with the JUCO ranks I wonder if this will be part of the process each year or does he go with high school players. That's what I meant and hope I have been able to enlighten.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 06, 2009, 10:06:39 PM
I'd love to enlighten, without the name calling. First, I think Jimmy Butler is a wonderful player and seems like a wonderful kid. My worry is that by going the JUCO route constantly means rotating players through your system every 2 or 3 years instead of every 4 years. Furthermore, it means throwing these guys into the mix almost immediately because they don't have many years left of eligibility
It means roster turnover at an accelerated rate. We've seen a lot of that already in the last 5 years with transfers and I'm hoping we can get back to a program that is reloading each year with high school players.
That's what I'm talking about. I understand why Buzz did it this year to balance the classes, but knowing his background with the JUCO ranks I wonder if this will be part of the process each year or does he go with high school players. That's what I meant and hope I have been able to enlighten.
Yeah, I've read you say this, over and over and over again. Why do you keep throwing it out there with a wistful "I hope I'm wrong, but gee, the JUCO thing makes me worry?" How about, say it once, or not at all, and reserve judgment until, you know, it actually happens?
And, who really cares if they are juco players or not? Good players, bad players, whatever, as long they do well at MU, graduate and represent the school with class? Or are you a closeted elitist like the ones constantly ragging on the program from the west?
Quote from: lorthneeda on September 06, 2009, 10:16:10 PM
Yeah, I've read you say this, over and over and over again. Why do you keep throwing it out there with a wistful "I hope I'm wrong, but gee, the JUCO thing makes me worry?" How about, say it once, or not at all, and reserve judgment until, you know, it actually happens?
And, who really cares if they are juco players or not? Good players, bad players, whatever, as long they do well at MU, graduate and represent the school with class? Or are you a closeted elitist like the ones constantly ragging on the program from the west?
Lorth.....look at the top 10 programs of the last 20 years and tell me how they were built. JUCO or 4 year players. And the ones built via the JUCO route, what else can you tell me about them. That will answer the question of "WHY I CARE" and why so many others care.
Do that exercise and enlighten yourself and the answers will become obvious.
not to mention that a program with players filtering through on four year intervals versus 2 or 3 year intervals has more stability and more likely better chemistry.
Quote from: muwarrior87 on September 06, 2009, 10:23:01 PM
not to mention that a program with players filtering through on four year intervals versus 2 or 3 year intervals has more stability and more likely better chemistry.
+1 exactly my point
Lorth, please make your argument without the name calling or take a vacation. Thanks.
Just a few observation I have made over many years of watching college ball:
In recent years we have seen a lot of mid-majors make surprising runs in the tourney. I think a major factor, as has been pointed out above, is players that play four years together develop a chemistry that is difficult to duplicate in one or two years.
Stud players are typically one and done (or two and done), therefore, perhaps those teams offset the "chemistry" argument due to sheer athletic superiority.
Juco players are not around for four years, but (help me here if anyone has examples) in most cases, they are not in the same category of a stud player that is one and done. Therefore they do not have the athletic superiority that results in a one or two year career.
I agree that perhaps the Juco route can get us a short term "fix" to get our scholarship situation worked out for the next couple of years, but I'm also in agreement that if we have to continue to recruit juco's we risk chemistry, or are missing out on the studs.
Talk amongst yourselves.
this is hilarious looking back on it. Even our own fans thought we were screwed. this shows the type of team we have right now. And everyone thought we were screwed while including maymon and otule, wow what a season.
Quote from: chapman on September 06, 2009, 09:39:03 PM
+1. Funny how some are locking us into 12th place and hoping for an NIT berth. Either the players somehow get great experience playing for nothing in practice by redshirting, or they get great experience playing for nothing in the NIT? Play the players who earn their minutes and stop with the continual low expectations-we're not St. John's. Only us, Pitt and Villanova have made the NCAA Tournament each of the last four years out of the Big East, and we should never be satisfied with going to the Not In Tournament.
props chapman
This is definitely one post where most people (who precicted MU not to make tourney like me) are quite happy to be wrong.
People might have expected much more from this year, but this team has tremendously exceeded my expectations. We knew Cadougan was injured, which lowered expectations. Then Otule went down and my expectation got even lower (early loss in NIT). Then Maymon left and I thought the team was simply snake bitten.
Thank you to Buzz and team for exceeding my expectations beyond compare.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on February 28, 2010, 06:56:14 PM
This is definitely one post where most people (who precicted MU not to make tourney like me) are quite happy to be wrong.
People might have expected much more from this year, but this team has tremendously exceeded my expectations. We knew Cadougan was injured, which lowered expectations. Then Otule went down and my expectation got even lower (early loss in NIT). Then Maymon left and I thought the team was simply snake bitten.
Thank you to Buzz and team for exceeding my expectations beyond compare.
Though not yet "in", I think a lot of us have a collective feeling that we will be there.
I am glad we're (going to be) wrong.
It's simply been a great year for the program.